$74 Billion In Revenue and Not A Penny Taxed - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

Rochard · 05-21-2013, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L-Pink

He also said he and his g/f or wife write off breakfast everyday because they talk about work for 3 minutes. Don't trust anyone that isn't a CPA or been thru a major IRS audit for tax advise.

.

I don't believe that was me - I don't eat breakfast out. At the same time, is there anything wrong with that? CCBill has a full time kitchen staff and feeds it's employees lunch every day - that must be a staggering cost, all of which they write off.

To the best of my knowledge, most of my write offs are legit. I can write off a portion of my house because it is my office; I work from home full time and there is no bed in this room so it is in fact my office. One of our companies has a company car - a truck really - because we need to haul massive amounts of gear to different locations...

dyna mo · 05-21-2013, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Does anybody in the United States actually get a shovel and dig a ditch for a living?

I don't believe I've EVER seen that in real life anywhere in this country.

I have seen highly paid union guys with giant bulldozers digging ditches right here in Las Vegas (flood control). And I've seen highly paid guys with bulldozers digging ditches in Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Michigan, Ohio, Mississippi, Alabama, and lots of other states I've lived in.

But NEVER saw a guy with a shovel digging a ditch and getting paid for it.

it's a common metaphor for low-paying, manual, menial, unskilled labor that others look down on. dwb is in thailand and used it and i am in cali and knew of the phrase.

maybe it's not common in lv.

dyna mo · 05-21-2013, 01:28 PM

just because you don't like what the gov spends the money on does not make taxation legalized theft.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

That's exactly what it is.

They don't spend all that money on "building roads" or any of that horseshit that they use to justify things.

They spent 3.6 TRILLION dollars last year. Gonna spend MORE this year!

There shouldn't be one hungry or homeless person in the U.S. with that much money being spent.
Everybody should have solar panels on their homes and businesses with that much money being spent.

But where does it all go?
"Defense" contractors.
It's imperative that we spend hundreds of billions of dollars to have military bases all over the world.

We must protect Germany from...nothing. But yet there we are. 70 years AFTER WW2 ended.

It is exactly what you say: Legalized Theft.

And if this was a private company making even 1/100th of that much money...these fake liberals on GFY would be screaming for their heads.

But as long as it's the govt. TAKING that money from people...it's all good!

GrantMercury · 05-21-2013, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L-Pink

That sure accounts for part of their large cash balance.

.

Ain't that the truth.

GrantMercury · 05-21-2013, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Does anybody in the United States actually get a shovel and dig a ditch for a living?

I don't believe I've EVER seen that in real life anywhere in this country.

Right. Where did that shit come from? Usually when the issue of welfare comes up, at least one asswipe will say they'd "dig ditches" before they'd accept welfare - as though if all else fails there are always "ditch digging" jobs to fall back on.

DWB · 05-21-2013, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

i don't know what ditch diggers really have to do with anything, if you like extremes i guess its somewhere to go but anyone earning a salary or per hour wage is in the same boat as that ditch digger be it a half million salary or 10 buck per hour job. personally i think we're all in this 'tax hell' together and should be all be getting fucked to the same degree or do away with it completely.

It was a metaphor, obviously a bad one.

If they must tax us, there should be a flat tax and that's all there is to it. But until that happens, we ALL have access to and have to abide by the same tax code. The only difference between Apple and the average American is that Apple utilizes the tax code to their extreme benefit while the average American doesn't do anything other than pay what he is told he owes. However, no one is stopping him from from using the same tax laws as Apple to reduce his tax burden or even pack up and move the hell out of the country where he too can pay no taxes in some situations.

For the tax year 2013 I legally won't pay a penny in Federal taxes unless I make over $97,600. If I do go over that, I only pay on the income that is over that amount, plus I still get to deduct a bunch of things from whatever that amount is. No real complaints here. I had a problem, I found a solution. To quote my grumpy old neighbor who lost his business and home to the IRS, "if you don't like it, leave." So I did.

TheSquealer · 05-21-2013, 01:59 PM

Think Different!

DWB · 05-21-2013, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyna mo

just because you don't like what the gov spends the money on does not make taxation legalized theft.

You're right, it's more like slavery and legalized theft.

But for the sake of debate, if I came to your house with a gun and forced you to give me 30% your money, what would you call it?

If you are forced to give something that belongs to you to someone else, or an organization, that is theft and/or slavery any way you want to spin it.

You will be punished by fines, penlites, losing your assets, and even imprisonment for not allowing them to take your hard earned money. They will even use force if necessary. YOU DO NOT HAVE A CHOICE. I suppose you could call it rape, but that sounds a little extreme. Slavery is a better word.

African slaves were forced to give 100% of whatever they did to their masters. They were punished severely for breaking the master's rules. Back then they called it "slavery." These days you give 20% - 40%+ of your earnings to your master and you are still punished if you break the master's rules. They may not beat you, but they will imprison you and strip you of everything you have. Only now they don't call it slavery, even though that is exactly what it is.

BlackCrayon · 05-21-2013, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWB

It was a metaphor, obviously a bad one.

If they must tax us, there should be a flat tax and that's all there is to it. But until that happens, we ALL have access to and have to abide by the same tax code. The only difference between Apple and the average American is that Apple utilizes the tax code to their extreme benefit while the average American doesn't do anything other than pay what he is told he owes. However, no one is stopping him from from using the same tax laws as Apple to reduce his tax burden or even pack up and move the hell out of the country where he too can pay no taxes in some situations.

For the tax year 2013 I legally won't pay a penny in Federal taxes unless I make over $97,600. If I do go over that, I only pay on the income that is over that amount, plus I still get to deduct a bunch of things from whatever that amount is. No real complaints here. I had a problem, I found a solution. To quote my grumpy old neighbor who lost his business and home to the IRS, "if you don't like it, leave." So I did.

the average worker has no control over what he pays in taxes, its taken off their paychecks before they even get them. the system wouldn't work if everyone worked for themselves, nor would it work if everyone moved to third world countries where taxes don't apply.

Sly · 05-21-2013, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

the average worker has no control over what he pays in taxes, its taken off their paychecks before they even get them.

Yes they do. There are many things that can be done to lower the tax burden on anyone. Even the amount deducted from weekly paychecks depends on a few variables that the employee has control over (number of dependents, etc.)

dyna mo · 05-21-2013, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWB

You're right, it's more like slavery and legalized theft.

But for the sake of debate, if I came to your house with a gun and forced you to give me 30% your money, what would you call it?

If you are forced to give something that belongs to you to someone else, or an organization, that is theft and/or slavery any way you want to spin it.

You will be punished by fines, penlites, losing your assets, and even imprisonment for not allowing them to take your hard earned money. They will even use force if necessary. YOU DO NOT HAVE A CHOICE. I suppose you could call it rape, but that sounds a little extreme. Slavery is a better word.

African slaves were forced to give 100% of whatever they did to their masters. They were punished severely for breaking the master's rules. Back then they called it "slavery." These days you give 20% - 40%+ of your earnings to your master and you are still punished if you break the master's rules. They may not beat you, but they will imprison you and strip you of everything you have. Only now they don't call it slavery, even though that is exactly what it is.

african slaves didn't get schools and medicare and roads, and security, etc. to use in return.

i'm not trying to be dense but i really don't get the slave analogy.

now i do get the current u.s. government is acting in a perverted manor, as it has done before, favoring big business combined with a misguided idea of defense, consequently those roads, bridges, this&that, and security are suffering as a result. but there would be no road at all if there were no taxes.

BlackCrayon · 05-21-2013, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyna mo

african slaves didn't get schools and medicare and roads, and security, etc. to use in return.

i'm not trying to be dense but i really don't get the slave analogy.

now i do get the current u.s. government is acting in a perverted manor, as it has done before, favoring big business combined with a misguided idea of defense, consequently those roads, bridges, this&that, and security are suffering as a result. but there would be no road at all if there were no taxes.

you've got to wonder, no one wants to pay taxes...ok so no one pays taxes. how does anything get funded? how does society function?

Gozarian · 05-21-2013, 02:29 PM

"Anyone may arrange his affairs so that his taxes shall be as low as possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which best pays the treasury. There is not even a patriotic duty to increase one's taxes. Over and over again the Courts have said that there is nothing sinister in so arranging affairs as to keep taxes as low as possible. Everyone does it, rich and poor alike and all do right, for nobody owes any public duty to pay more than the law demands."
Judge Learned Hand, Gregory v. Helvering 69 F.2d 809, 810 (2d Cir. 1934), aff'd, 293 U.S. 465, 55 S.Ct. 266, 79 L.Ed. 596 (1935)

slapass · 05-21-2013, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

All of them do this.

It's easy to write off everything. Doesn't matter if you are a huge company or self employed. I write off a portion of my house because I work from home, although I'm not sure why I am allowed to do this? Why does anyone get to write off anything?

We need a flat tax.

You get to write off expenses so that companies that don't make money right away are allowed to continue. If you had to feed a company that was grossing 100k a year and groing but wasn't making money yet, you would increase the barrier to entry for normal people.
You pay tax on the difference and not the gross like in Russia.

kane · 05-21-2013, 04:00 PM

This whole thing with Apple is like watching the snake swallow its own tail.

I read that Apple was going to borrow $15 billion dollars for some projects. When asked why they were borrowing the money instead of using cash on hand the CFO said it was because if they used the cash on hand they would have to pay taxes on it. It is cheaper to pay interest on the loan then the taxes.

Still, that aside, it is companies that hire lobbyist and basically pay off lawmakers to make all of these loopholes in the tax laws for them to use. They then use them and now the lawmakers that made them are suddenly outraged by it.

To me this is nothing more than a dog and pony show. They will question Apple and maybe a few other companies and put on a good show so when they run for reelection next year they can tell the voters how they stood up to the big businesses that trying to skip out of paying taxes. Nothing will happen to the businesses and business will continue as normal.

kane · 05-21-2013, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slapass

You get to write off expenses so that companies that don't make money right away are allowed to continue. If you had to feed a company that was grossing 100k a year and groing but wasn't making money yet, you would increase the barrier to entry for normal people.
You pay tax on the difference and not the gross like in Russia.

Many years ago when I was right out of high school I worked for Radio Shack. The manager I had when I first started then had 3 or 4 different DBA's for different businesses. He had a degree in accounting and had things set up so basically one business owned his house, one owned his furniture, one owned the car and so on. He had all his assets split up among them and each business rented items to the other business and wrote everything off until he got it down to where he had zero taxable income every year.

Not long after I started working there he got fired so I don't know if he ever got caught, but at that time he told me he had been doing this for 10 years.

Rochard · 05-21-2013, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kane

Many years ago when I was right out of high school I worked for Radio Shack. The manager I had when I first started then had 3 or 4 different DBA's for different businesses. He had a degree in accounting and had things set up so basically one business owned his house, one owned his furniture, one owned the car and so on. He had all his assets split up among them and each business rented items to the other business and wrote everything off until he got it down to where he had zero taxable income every year.

Not long after I started working there he got fired so I don't know if he ever got caught, but at that time he told me he had been doing this for 10 years.

See, now that's a bit much. My wife and I have different businesses, but that's because they are completely different from each other.

kane · 05-21-2013, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

See, now that's a bit much. My wife and I have different businesses, but that's because they are completely different from each other.

Yeah, this guy was gaming the system. The idea is that you can write stuff off so it gives your business more money to grow/improve. This guy said he could show that he was trying to make a profit, he just wasn't there yet. Of course he never intended to be there, he was just doing it to get out of paying his taxes.

DWB · 05-21-2013, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyna mo

it's a common metaphor for low-paying, manual, menial, unskilled labor that others look down on. dwb is in thailand and used it and i am in cali and knew of the phrase.

We actually have a lot of ditch diggers here. Poor guys make like $9 a day for back breaking work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyna mo

african slaves didn't get schools and medicare and roads, and security, etc. to use in return.

They got food and a roof over their head, which during those times was a lot. Some did get a minimal education. They had security from other slave owners and anyone else so long as they stayed on the plantation. And the best of them got to breed the women.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyna mo

but there would be no road at all if there were no taxes.

Toll roads, gas tax, and so on. Several US states already do it, such as Texas.

There are some countries with no income tax at all for individuals, such as Monaco.

Most people in SE Asia don't pay taxes. We have roads, government services, schools, fire departments, several branches of military, and everything else that people say no one would have if everyone stopped paying taxes. Don't be fooled, governments have plenty of money to do what they need IF they spend it on the right things.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyna mo

i'm not trying to be dense but i really don't get the slave analogy.

slave (plural slaves)

Noun

*A person who is the property of another person and whose labor and also whose life often is subject to the owner's volition.
*A person who is legally obliged by prior contract (oral or written) to work for another, with contractually limited rights to bargain; an indentured servant.
*A person who is forced against his/her will to perform, for another person or other persons, personal services on a regular or continuing basis.

That pretty much sums up taxation. You didn't agree to any contract, you have no choice in the matter, it is forced upon you, you will be punished (or imprisoned) if you don't pay them, and you are an indentured servant to your government until the day you die where they will then charge a death tax.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

you've got to wonder, no one wants to pay taxes...ok so no one pays taxes. how does anything get funded? how does society function?

See my post above. Many countries who collect very little or no personal income tax revenue have everything they need. The money is there and there are plenty of ways to get it. It's the biggest lie and scam anyone has pulled since The Bible.

Robbie · 05-21-2013, 05:15 PM

DWB is 100% correct.

Our roads are paid for by the "gasoline tax" for instance. Our schools...paid for by property taxes.

Face facts...our federal govt. is spending so much goddamn money on ruling the world with a giant military and bases in 80 plus countries around the world.

THAT is where all the money goes. To killing people.

Like I said before...the govt. spent 3.6 TRILLION dollars last year. They are spending MORE this year (despite all the bullshit they try to tell us about a "sequester").
With that kind of spending, there should be no homeless people. No hungry people. We should all have solar power. etc.

There are 300 million people in the US. With that money the feds could write every man, woman and child a $10,000 check each year.

DWB · 05-21-2013, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

the average worker has no control over what he pays in taxes, its taken off their paychecks before they even get them. the system wouldn't work if everyone worked for themselves, nor would it work if everyone moved to third world countries where taxes don't apply.

There are always ways and you don't have to live in a third world country.

Average workers are average workers for a reason. They usually can't think outside the box or think something can't be done to change their situation. What is the old saying, whether you think you can or you can't, you're right.

Scat in the Hat · 05-21-2013, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vvvvv

Manwin should take some pointers from them.

Manwin is working on a similar setup in Ireland as we speak.

dyna mo · 05-21-2013, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWB

We actually have a lot of ditch diggers here. Poor guys make like $9 a day for back breaking work.

They got food and a roof over their head, which during those times was a lot. Some did get a minimal education. They had security from other slave owners and anyone else so long as they stayed on the plantation. And the best of them got to breed the women.

Toll roads, gas tax, and so on. Several US states already do it, such as Texas.

There are some countries with no income tax at all for individuals, such as Monaco.

Most people in SE Asia don't pay taxes. We have roads, government services, schools, fire departments, several branches of military, and everything else that people say no one would have if everyone stopped paying taxes. Don't be fooled, governments have plenty of money to do what they need IF they spend it on the right things.

slave (plural slaves)

Noun

*A person who is the property of another person and whose labor and also whose life often is subject to the owner's volition.
*A person who is legally obliged by prior contract (oral or written) to work for another, with contractually limited rights to bargain; an indentured servant.
*A person who is forced against his/her will to perform, for another person or other persons, personal services on a regular or continuing basis.

That pretty much sums up taxation. You didn't agree to any contract, you have no choice in the matter, it is forced upon you, you will be punished (or imprisoned) if you don't pay them, and you are an indentured servant to your government until the day you die where they will then charge a death tax.

See my post above. Many countries who collect very little or no personal income tax revenue have everything they need. The money is there and there are plenty of ways to get it. It's the biggest lie and scam anyone has pulled since The Bible.

why not use the definition of tax instead of applying the definition of slavery to tax?

tax (tks)
n.
1. A contribution for the support of a government required of persons, groups, or businesses within the domain of that government.
2. A fee or dues levied on the members of an organization to meet its expenses.
3. A burdensome or excessive demand; a strain.

i am not defending the current government spending but there is a lot more going on than military

DWB · 05-21-2013, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

DWB is 100% correct.

Noting that in my calendar, it doesn't happen often.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

THAT is where all the money goes. To killing people.

Killing people and policing the world.

This is a long video, but if you want to see the true costs of war, this is worth a watch. I highly recommend watching this.

DWB · 05-21-2013, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyna mo

why not use the definition of tax instead of applying the definition of slavery to tax?

tax (tks)
n.
1. A contribution for the support of a government required of persons, groups, or businesses within the domain of that government.
2. A fee or dues levied on the members of an organization to meet its expenses.
3. A burdensome or excessive demand; a strain.

Because "tax" in related to personal income tax is just a fancy word for "theft" and "slavery." You can change the name all you want but it still is what it is.

If having 100% of the product of your labor stolen is literally slavery, then at what percentage does it stop being slavery?

The bottom line is this, the only reason any of us pay taxes is because we would be arrested if we didn't. If that doesn't show the true reality of the situation, then nothing will.

dyna mo · 05-21-2013, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWB

Because "tax" in related to personal income tax is just a fancy word for "theft" and "slavery." You can change the name all you want but it still is what it is.

If having 100% of the product of your labor stolen is literally slavery, then at what percentage does it stop being slavery?

The bottom line is this, the only reason any of us pay taxes is because we would be arrested if we didn't. If that doesn't show the true reality of the situation, then nothing will.

i agree with your bottomline, you couldprolly extrapolate that out to nobody would pay for anything, given their druthers. human nature and all.

maybe i am struggling with not getting the benefit of thinking a tax is slavery as opposed to a social requirement for the area i choose to live in.

what's the reason to look at it as slavery?

GrantMercury · 05-21-2013, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gozarian

"Anyone may arrange his affairs so that his taxes shall be as low as possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which best pays the treasury. There is not even a patriotic duty to increase one's taxes. Over and over again the Courts have said that there is nothing sinister in so arranging affairs as to keep taxes as low as possible. Everyone does it, rich and poor alike and all do right, for nobody owes any public duty to pay more than the law demands."
Judge Learned Hand, Gregory v. Helvering 69 F.2d 809, 810 (2d Cir. 1934), aff'd, 293 U.S. 465, 55 S.Ct. 266, 79 L.Ed. 596 (1935)

I don't think anyone is suggesting otherwise. The problem is our FUBAR tax code. It's a million pages long - to facilitate exactly what Apple did.

GrantMercury · 05-21-2013, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWB

The bottom line is this, the only reason any of us pay taxes is because we would be arrested if we didn't. If that doesn't show the true reality of the situation, then nothing will.

How many people would pay taxes purely out of a sense of duty to their country? How far do you think that would take us?

Robbie · 05-21-2013, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantMercury

How many people would pay taxes purely out of a sense of duty to their country? How far do you think that would take us?

Nobody paid income tax before the Congress decided to pass the 16th amendment.

Before that it was unconstitutional.

Abolish income tax, cut out the insane military spending, institute a national sales tax and our govt. would have plenty of money to do the things it's supposed to be doing...minus killing people worldwide with our military.

Jel · 05-22-2013, 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWB

The money is there and there are plenty of ways to get it. It's the biggest lie and scam anyone has pulled since The Bible.

telling people it's their 'moral obligation', while spending insane amounts of money (I'll pick the $70m or so on a *practice* Olympics opening ceremony in London as 1 example, let alone the opulence of parliament itself. Really, a fucking practice?!) while people are homeless and don't eat, in 2013 and have almost everyone in the country BELIEVE that *they* are the morally bankrupt if they don't pay tax is right up there on the biggest things anyone has gotten away with

dyna mo · 05-22-2013, 04:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWB

Most people in SE Asia don't pay taxes. We have roads, government services, schools, fire departments, several branches of military, and everything else that people say no one would have if everyone stopped paying taxes. Don't be fooled, governments have plenty of money to do what they need IF they spend it on the right things.

See my post above. Many countries who collect very little or no personal income tax revenue have everything they need. The money is there and there are plenty of ways to get it. It's the biggest lie and scam anyone has pulled since The Bible.

i think y'all are fucking with me.

which is cool.

but

Quote:

Thailand individual income tax rates are progressive to 37%.

Taxable Income (Baht) Tax Rate Tax Amount Accumulated Tax
0 - 150,000 Exempt - -
150,001 - 500,000 10% 35,000 35,000
500,001 - 1,000,000 20% 100,000 135,000
1,000,001 - 4,000,000 30% 900,000 1,035,000
4,000,001 and over 37%

that's $5k income at the bottom end.

the 15 countries that do not charge income tax

Monaco
Kuwait
Bermuda
U.A.E.
Andorra
British Virgin Islands
Qatar
Bahamas
Oman
Brunei
Cayman Islands
Anguilla
Maldives
Turks and Caicos
Vanuatu

after that there are very few countries with "low" income tax overall. botswana anyone?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...s_by_tax_rates

DWB · 05-22-2013, 05:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantMercury

How many people would pay taxes purely out of a sense of duty to their country? How far do you think that would take us?

If people choose to pay that is great. You every every right to give them as much money as you want. The problem is, we don't have a choice and will be punished if we don't pay them.

But lets say that one day everyone decided not to pay anymore. Things would still get paid for via other methods just like they do in other countries (or states) with no or low tax, and private companies would take care of things as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Nobody paid income tax before the Congress decided to pass the 16th amendment.

Before that it was unconstitutional.

Abolish income tax, cut out the insane military spending, institute a national sales tax and our govt. would have plenty of money to do the things it's supposed to be doing...minus killing people worldwide with our military.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyna mo

i think y'all are fucking with me.

which is cool.

but

Thailand individual income tax rates are progressive to 37%.

Taxable Income (Baht) Tax Rate Tax Amount Accumulated Tax
0 - 150,000 Exempt - -
150,001 - 500,000 10% 35,000 35,000
500,001 - 1,000,000 20% 100,000 135,000
1,000,001 - 4,000,000 30% 900,000 1,035,000
4,000,001 and over 37%

I didn't said Thailand doesn't have taxes, I said hardly anyone pays them. And by "anyone" I mean the average citizen. They don't hunt you down and ruin your life here if you don't, so people choose not to pay. I've yet to meet a single Thai person who pays personal income taxes and I first started come here in the 90s. I know a few businessmen who pay taxes on their business, but the average person doesn't pay anything.

dyna mo · 05-22-2013, 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWB

I didn't said Thailand doesn't have taxes, I said hardly anyone pays them. And by "anyone" I mean the average citizen. They don't hunt you down and ruin your life here if you don't, so people choose not to pay. I've yet to meet a single Thai person who pays personal income taxes and I first started come here in the 90s. I know a few businessmen who pay taxes on their business, but the average person doesn't pay anything.

my point is there is an income tax there, in some cases, more than the u.s. besides, it's not really a shiny beacon of modern-day infrastructure there, from what i've read. what ~500 miles of highways tota, for examplel.

nico-t · 05-22-2013, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuckOnThis

Sorry, didn't realize English isn't your native language.

lol, nice comeback, nothing weaker than attacking grammar/spelling errors.

Double nice comeback because you're even wrong too

http://www.grammar-monster.com/lessons/an_or_a.htm

Simon · 05-22-2013, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Does anybody in the United States actually get a shovel and dig a ditch for a living?

There were two guys working for the city. One would dig a hole -- he would dig, dig, dig. the other would come behind him and fill the hole -- fill, fill, fill. these two men worked furiously; one digging a hole, the other filling it up again.

A man was watching from the sidewalk and couldn't believe how hard these men were working, but he couldn't understand what they were doing. Finally he had to ask them.

He said to the hole digger, "I appreciate how hard you work, but what are you doing? You dig a hole and your partner comes behind you and fills it up again!"

The hole digger replied, "Oh yeah, must look funny, but the guy who plants the trees is sick today."

DWB · 05-22-2013, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyna mo

my point is there is an income tax there, in some cases, more than the u.s. besides, it's not really a shiny beacon of modern-day infrastructure there, from what i've read. what ~500 miles of highways tota, for examplel.

Yes, there is a tax but most people don't pay it. They make money from other ways. That is what I'm saying. However, Thailand is a horrible example to compare to the USA in terms of infrastructure, even though it is fairly decent, as corruption here is what ruins the country, not a lack of money for the projects. That is the same problem all developing nations have, corruption drains the money, but there is never shortage of money in places where most people do not pay tax. Many of these "poor" countries are literally bathing in cash and collect very little or no income tax, it just goes into the pockets of those running the place, and oddly the USA pours money into them via foreign aid.

BlackCrayon · 05-22-2013, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWB

Yes, there is a tax but most people don't pay it. They make money from other ways. That is what I'm saying.

Any examples as to where the money comes from?

DWB · 05-22-2013, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

Any examples as to where the money comes from?

Sales tax, tourism, toll roads, import / export tax, corporate tax, selling natural resources, and so on. Private companies also step up to the plate and take care of things, like building a bridge or train tracks and so on. Of course they get tax credits for doing so. There are endless ways countries make money that don't involve income tax.

The problem is most westerners have been duped into thinking life will come to a halt if they don't do their duty and pay taxes to the government. Nothing could be further from the truth. "Who will build the roads" is the silliest thing one can say in regards to this. Roads get built just fine without income tax.

Slappin Fish · 05-22-2013, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyna mo

my point is there is an income tax there, in some cases, more than the u.s. besides, it's not really a shiny beacon of modern-day infrastructure there, from what i've read. what ~500 miles of highways tota, for examplel.

The lack of highways has more to do with the clusterfuck that is land expropriation

Progressive sales tax and flat income tax is the way to go. Although you can't fully compare an island state like Singapore to the US taxing "lifestyle" rather than income makes a lot of sense.

______________

dyna mo · 05-22-2013, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWB

Yes, there is a tax but most people don't pay it. They make money from other ways. That is what I'm saying. However, Thailand is a horrible example to compare to the USA in terms of infrastructure, even though it is fairly decent, as corruption here is what ruins the country, not a lack of money for the projects. That is the same problem all developing nations have, corruption drains the money, but there is never shortage of money in places where most people do not pay tax. Many of these "poor" countries are literally bathing in cash and collect very little or no income tax, it just goes into the pockets of those running the place, and oddly the USA pours money into them via foreign aid.

i'm not sure what we are debating any more! I think ultimately the comparison boils down to developed nations spend more money and take in more money. if thai people don't want to chip in, then things like widespread corruption fill the void. or they just don't get things in return that those get in nation's who get more paid in and in return spend more.

the other point is since the day taxes were collected anywhere, i'd wager peeps were bitching about what that tax was spent on. it's a compromise system based on representatives.

finally, y'all know you cannot put the genie back in the bottle right? you know we can't just stop the military. we can't just stop taxing. we are way past that option.

Phoenix · 05-22-2013, 08:43 AM

I am no slave.
I am a free thinker who happens to be Canadian. As such, I must give thanks for the wonderful schooling and medical care i received here, not to mention the wonderful social programs i took part in growing up. I am happy to pay tax. {not more then i should though}

Of course i write off what is possible. There are many incentives here you can take advantage of. However scheming to pay zero while you take full advantage of the rights afforded you in the world for being, in my case Canadian, is like the friend who never brings money to dinner.

Social programs need to exist to keep society on the right path. That is what religion was originally designed for. To herd the sheep. Well the sheep still need herding.
The average person out there is brain-dead, this board is not a fair representation of the outside world. This is a collection of business owners speaking from the hip on various subjects. Without patting ourselves on the back too much, the majority of longtime posters here are of above average intelligence.

So 95% of the earth still needs to be told exactly what to do. Or in one generation they would be drinking water from the same place they shit. They would eat themselves into an early death, and poison their own water supply with chemicals. People and companies need to be regulated for more reasons then just bending over for "the man".

Just because you are doing great and dominating your time on earth, do not assume that others are. Try to do your best in all areas. Not just your pocketbook.

/sermon

Bacon

DWB · 05-22-2013, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyna mo

finally, y'all know you cannot put the genie back in the bottle right? you know we can't just stop the military. we can't just stop taxing. we are way past that option.

That I agree with, and it will be part of the reason the American empire will eventually collapse just as every empire before it did who tried to do the same thing.

dyna mo · 05-22-2013, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix

I am no slave.
I am a free thinker who happens to be Canadian. As such, I must give thanks for the wonderful schooling and medical care i received here, not to mention the wonderful social programs i took part in growing up. I am happy to pay tax. {not more then i should though}

Of course i write off what is possible. There are many incentives here you can take advantage of. However scheming to pay zero while you take full advantage of the rights afforded you in the world for being, in my case Canadian, is like the friend who never brings money to dinner.

Social programs need to exist to keep society on the right path. That is what religion was originally designed for. To herd the sheep. Well the sheep still need herding.
The average person out there is brain-dead, this board is not a fair representation of the outside world. This is a collection of business owners speaking from the hip on various subjects. Without patting ourselves on the back too much, the majority of longtime posters here are of above average intelligence.

So 95% of the earth still needs to be told exactly what to do. Or in one generation they would be drinking water from the same place they shit. They would eat themselves into an early death, and poison their own water supply with chemicals. People and companies need to be regulated for more reasons then just bending over for "the man".

Just because you are doing great and dominating your time on earth, do not assume that others are. Try to do your best in all areas. Not just your pocketbook.

/sermon

Bacon

that's a good way to look at it and sum that view up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWB

That I agree with, and it will be part of the reason the American empire will eventually collapse just as every empire before it did who tried to do the same thing.

i'm ready. it's why i prefer watching british tele shows, that self-deprecating humor from living in the failed empire is hilarious! so cheeky.

DWB · 05-22-2013, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix

That is what religion was originally designed for. To herd the sheep.

Robbie · 05-22-2013, 10:57 AM

Getting back on track...

Though the Apple corporation may have had enough overhead and deductions to not pay a "penny" in taxes...I'll bet that their employees (from the top down) paid PLENTY in individual income tax.

So hopefully we all won't feel too sorry for Poor Old Uncle Sam, especially since the feds spend over 10 BILLION dollars per day. It would only take the feds 7 days to run through 100% of what Apple makes in a year.

Out of control in my opinion.

_Richard_ · 05-22-2013, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix

I am no slave.
I am a free thinker who happens to be Canadian. As such, I must give thanks for the wonderful schooling and medical care i received here, not to mention the wonderful social programs i took part in growing up. I am happy to pay tax. {not more then i should though}

Of course i write off what is possible. There are many incentives here you can take advantage of. However scheming to pay zero while you take full advantage of the rights afforded you in the world for being, in my case Canadian, is like the friend who never brings money to dinner.

Social programs need to exist to keep society on the right path. That is what religion was originally designed for. To herd the sheep. Well the sheep still need herding.
The average person out there is brain-dead, this board is not a fair representation of the outside world. This is a collection of business owners speaking from the hip on various subjects. Without patting ourselves on the back too much, the majority of longtime posters here are of above average intelligence.

So 95% of the earth still needs to be told exactly what to do. Or in one generation they would be drinking water from the same place they shit. They would eat themselves into an early death, and poison their own water supply with chemicals. People and companies need to be regulated for more reasons then just bending over for "the man".

Just because you are doing great and dominating your time on earth, do not assume that others are. Try to do your best in all areas. Not just your pocketbook.

/sermon

Bacon

Scat in the Hat · 05-22-2013, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix

I am no slave.
I am a free thinker who happens to be Canadian. As such, I must give thanks for the wonderful schooling and medical care i received here, not to mention the wonderful social programs i took part in growing up. I am happy to pay tax. {not more then i should though}

Of course i write off what is possible. There are many incentives here you can take advantage of. However scheming to pay zero while you take full advantage of the rights afforded you in the world for being, in my case Canadian, is like the friend who never brings money to dinner.

Social programs need to exist to keep society on the right path. That is what religion was originally designed for. To herd the sheep. Well the sheep still need herding.
The average person out there is brain-dead, this board is not a fair representation of the outside world. This is a collection of business owners speaking from the hip on various subjects. Without patting ourselves on the back too much, the majority of longtime posters here are of above average intelligence.

So 95% of the earth still needs to be told exactly what to do. Or in one generation they would be drinking water from the same place they shit. They would eat themselves into an early death, and poison their own water supply with chemicals. People and companies need to be regulated for more reasons then just bending over for "the man".

Just because you are doing great and dominating your time on earth, do not assume that others are. Try to do your best in all areas. Not just your pocketbook.

/sermon

Bacon

Well said

potter · 05-22-2013, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix

I am no slave.
I am a free thinker who happens to be Canadian. As such, I must give thanks for the wonderful schooling and medical care i received here, not to mention the wonderful social programs i took part in growing up. I am happy to pay tax. {not more then i should though}

Of course i write off what is possible. There are many incentives here you can take advantage of. However scheming to pay zero while you take full advantage of the rights afforded you in the world for being, in my case Canadian, is like the friend who never brings money to dinner.

Social programs need to exist to keep society on the right path. That is what religion was originally designed for. To herd the sheep. Well the sheep still need herding.
The average person out there is brain-dead, this board is not a fair representation of the outside world. This is a collection of business owners speaking from the hip on various subjects. Without patting ourselves on the back too much, the majority of longtime posters here are of above average intelligence.

So 95% of the earth still needs to be told exactly what to do. Or in one generation they would be drinking water from the same place they shit. They would eat themselves into an early death, and poison their own water supply with chemicals. People and companies need to be regulated for more reasons then just bending over for "the man".

Just because you are doing great and dominating your time on earth, do not assume that others are. Try to do your best in all areas. Not just your pocketbook.

/sermon

Bacon

TrafficRush · 05-22-2013, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Choopa Phil

Ever seen the price tag of an F-22 Raptor or SR71 blackbird?

Yep!

<-- Seen quite a few of those...

2013 · 05-22-2013, 09:54 PM

101 pieces of bacon

05-21-2013, 01:59 PM	#57
TheSquealer BANNED Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: In Your Head Posts: 25,075	Think Different! __________________ . Yes, fewer illegal immigrants working equates to more job opportunities for American citizens. Rochard

05-21-2013, 05:15 PM	#70
Robbie Leaner, Meaner, Faster Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegas Posts: 20,958	DWB is 100% correct. Our roads are paid for by the "gasoline tax" for instance. Our schools...paid for by property taxes. Face facts...our federal govt. is spending so much goddamn money on ruling the world with a giant military and bases in 80 plus countries around the world. THAT is where all the money goes. To killing people. Like I said before...the govt. spent 3.6 TRILLION dollars last year. They are spending MORE this year (despite all the bullshit they try to tell us about a "sequester"). With that kind of spending, there should be no homeless people. No hungry people. We should all have solar power. etc. There are 300 million people in the US. With that money the feds could write every man, woman and child a $10,000 check each year. __________________ -Robbie ClaudiaMarie.Com

05-22-2013, 08:43 AM	#91
Phoenix BACON BACON BACON Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Poems everybody, the laddie fancies himself a poet Posts: 35,457	I am no slave. I am a free thinker who happens to be Canadian. As such, I must give thanks for the wonderful schooling and medical care i received here, not to mention the wonderful social programs i took part in growing up. I am happy to pay tax. {not more then i should though} Of course i write off what is possible. There are many incentives here you can take advantage of. However scheming to pay zero while you take full advantage of the rights afforded you in the world for being, in my case Canadian, is like the friend who never brings money to dinner. Social programs need to exist to keep society on the right path. That is what religion was originally designed for. To herd the sheep. Well the sheep still need herding. The average person out there is brain-dead, this board is not a fair representation of the outside world. This is a collection of business owners speaking from the hip on various subjects. Without patting ourselves on the back too much, the majority of longtime posters here are of above average intelligence. So 95% of the earth still needs to be told exactly what to do. Or in one generation they would be drinking water from the same place they shit. They would eat themselves into an early death, and poison their own water supply with chemicals. People and companies need to be regulated for more reasons then just bending over for "the man". Just because you are doing great and dominating your time on earth, do not assume that others are. Try to do your best in all areas. Not just your pocketbook. /sermon Bacon __________________ Skype Phoenixskype1 Telegram PhoenixBrad https://quantads.io Last edited by Phoenix; 05-22-2013 at 08:46 AM..

05-22-2013, 10:57 AM	#95
Robbie Leaner, Meaner, Faster Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegas Posts: 20,958	Getting back on track... Though the Apple corporation may have had enough overhead and deductions to not pay a "penny" in taxes...I'll bet that their employees (from the top down) paid PLENTY in individual income tax. So hopefully we all won't feel too sorry for Poor Old Uncle Sam, especially since the feds spend over 10 BILLION dollars per day. It would only take the feds 7 days to run through 100% of what Apple makes in a year. Out of control in my opinion. __________________ -Robbie ClaudiaMarie.Com

05-21-2013, 02:29 PM	#63
Gozarian Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: most recently Bucharest Posts: 558	"Anyone may arrange his affairs so that his taxes shall be as low as possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which best pays the treasury. There is not even a patriotic duty to increase one's taxes. Over and over again the Courts have said that there is nothing sinister in so arranging affairs as to keep taxes as low as possible. Everyone does it, rich and poor alike and all do right, for nobody owes any public duty to pay more than the law demands." Judge Learned Hand, Gregory v. Helvering 69 F.2d 809, 810 (2d Cir. 1934), aff'd, 293 U.S. 465, 55 S.Ct. 266, 79 L.Ed. 596 (1935)

05-21-2013, 04:00 PM	#65
kane Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: portland, OR Posts: 20,684	This whole thing with Apple is like watching the snake swallow its own tail. I read that Apple was going to borrow $15 billion dollars for some projects. When asked why they were borrowing the money instead of using cash on hand the CFO said it was because if they used the cash on hand they would have to pay taxes on it. It is cheaper to pay interest on the loan then the taxes. Still, that aside, it is companies that hire lobbyist and basically pay off lawmakers to make all of these loopholes in the tax laws for them to use. They then use them and now the lawmakers that made them are suddenly outraged by it. To me this is nothing more than a dog and pony show. They will question Apple and maybe a few other companies and put on a good show so when they run for reelection next year they can tell the voters how they stood up to the big businesses that trying to skip out of paying taxes. Nothing will happen to the businesses and business will continue as normal.

05-22-2013, 09:54 PM	#100
2013 So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: lollling Posts: 4,390	101 pieces of bacon