So my neighbour just posted this. "Comparing freedom of gays and Lesbian to the freedom of blacks is - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

brassmonkey · 06-29-2013, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caligari

Okay, I am going to lay this out once and i'm going to bed.

The United States is composed of many races, blacks being one of them.
When a person is born black, they are born black not by choice, but because of the genealogy of their parents.

A gay man sucks dick by choice, that is his sexual preference, his lifestyle.

To compare the two in terms of degree of struggle is ludicrous as there is no comparison.

Blacks have suffered for over 200 years in this country, often times in the most unimaginable ways simply because of the color of their skin, NOT by any preference or choice in their lifestyle.

There is a huge problem in this country wherein people have lost the ability for comparative or relative reasoning, and without this you get idiots who somehow compare the plight of gays to the plight of blacks.

that's real talk right there

Quote:

Originally Posted by adult-help

I never understood why people mocked jackson for his skin when he had a skin condition? Would you mock albino or other vitiligo victims? He did a mistake though,he should have said clealry he is sick so all that mocking would probably stop..

he said he wanted to be peter pan

they all got nose jobs.

and mike put a butt in his chin

im going to bed

its like christmas eve 4 me. my jamaican hot chocolate pepper plants get here tomorrow!

fiddy fairy tales

ilnjscb · 06-29-2013, 04:49 PM

Once again, how does it matter so much who is being discriminated against? It doesn't seem like gay men and women are asking for preferential contracts and preferential admission into college, it sounds like they want equal right to marry. How is that bad? How does that negatively affect any race of people?

brassmonkey · 06-29-2013, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilnjscb

Once again, how does it matter so much who is being discriminated against? It doesn't seem like gay men and women are asking for preferential contracts and preferential admission into college, it sounds like they want equal right to marry. How is that bad? How does that negatively affect any race of people?

you know the fucking deal or your playing stupid.

if a college has 1500 seats and 800 are filled by white students. the 700 that are still un filled are not filled by more whites

they are filled by other races that are equally qualified (not always blacks) can you understand that? without it the seats will be continued to be filled with whites like they were in the past. it's real http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013...ege-admissions

Grapesoda · 06-29-2013, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Far-L

I can see where he might see a difference.

Blacks were not just discriminated against; they were enslaved. Although discrimination can feel like enslavement, that is still a state of mind, as discrimination is a shackle of expression and ideas, shapes and colors, philosophy and religion, etc., not a physical shackle of the body. A slave suffered every type of discrimination; skin color is just the surface. Religion. Shape. And yes, sexual preference too, then add the shackles and being considered property with no rights at all, no free will. So any black person, especially from a country where slavery is still fresh in the minds of those not enough generations away from it, with family histories still recent enough to matter, might still have enough cultural memory to see that distinction. I can certainly see where someone, black or white, from Jamaica would see it that way considering Jamaica's history in the slave trade.

In any event, I hope I am giving you enough of another perspective where you can have a reasonable and intelligent conversation with him about it.

personally I think the issue is a bit more than that... I think it's a cultural issue with blacks not assimilating in to white Western/European Culture.. for instance why do I know someone is black on the telephone 95% of time?

Grapesoda · 06-29-2013, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilnjscb

Once again, how does it matter so much who is being discriminated against? It doesn't seem like gay men and women are asking for preferential contracts and preferential admission into college, it sounds like they want equal right to marry. How is that bad? How does that negatively affect any race of people?

laws should benefit all races and cultures, not target specific minority demographics.

ilnjscb · 06-29-2013, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brassmonkey

you know the fucking deal or your playing stupid.

if a college has 1500 seats and 800 are filled by white students. the 700 that are still un filled are not filled by more whites

they are filled by other races that are equally qualified (not always blacks) can you understand that? without it the seats will be continued to be filled with whites like they were in the past. it's real http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013...ege-admissions

What? WTF are you talking about? How does that have anything to do with discrimination against gay people? Did you not read where I said no one should be discriminated against? How does letting gay people get married have any effect on college entrance?

brassmonkey · 06-29-2013, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilnjscb

What? WTF are you talking about? How does that have anything to do with discrimination against gay people? Did you not read where I said no one should be discriminated against? How does letting gay people get married have any effect on college entrance?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilnjscb

Once again, how does it matter so much who is being discriminated against? It doesn't seem like gay men and women are asking for preferential contracts and preferential admission into college, it sounds like they want equal right to marry. How is that bad? How does that negatively affect any race of people?

you think the playing field is level? its not

ilnjscb · 06-30-2013, 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brassmonkey

you think the playing field is level? its not

No, it isn't level. They can't get married and we (and I'm making an assumption here) can.

Phoenix · 06-30-2013, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caligari

And you are complete idiot. You have no concept of the idea of human rights and the struggle for blacks in this country overcoming generations of slavery, and there is no comparison with the two.

The suffering of gays in this country has been like a slap on the wrist in comparison to the suffering of blacks.

you talk as if the suffering of gay people is something new that just started this year.
often times tortured in the worst ways just because.
used as cannon fodder...bait...worked to death...enslaved.
i would say they have had their share of bad treatment.
just because you do not know about it, doesn't make it so.
i do like how you weigh into an argument fully though as if you were informed.
well played.

oh and to the genetic Einstein above....gay people to do not just choose to suck dick one day....holy fuck how do you even login to the net?

I would wager it is a fuck of a lot easier to be a black man in then it is to be a gay man.
But what do i know..i'm just a white Canadian boy from way up north.

Keep talking though, i love when smart people post.

Far-L · 06-30-2013, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix

you talk as if the suffering of gay people is something new that just started this year.
often times tortured in the worst ways just because.
used as cannon fodder...bait...worked to death...enslaved.
i would say they have had their share of bad treatment.
just because you do not know about it, doesn't make it so.
i do like how you weigh into an argument fully though as if you were informed.
well played.

oh and to the genetic Einstein above....gay people to do not just choose to suck dick one day....holy fuck how do you even login to the net?

I would wager it is a fuck of a lot easier to be a black man in then it is to be a gay man.
But what do i know..i'm just a white Canadian boy from way up north.

Keep talking though, i love when smart people post.

Historically speaking "gay" wasn't even an issue, or even a particular distinction, for several millennia. Even the modern religions didn't start going after gays until only fairly recently in terms of the span of human history.

Also, when you look at someone, you don't automatically think "gay or straight" (unless of course you have gaydar...) but I bet you do see black as black and for a lot of people have a reaction, even involuntarily, due to so much negative stereotyping in our culture towards blacks. Even anti-gay people don't look at a gay person and think they are going to be robbed, raped, and murdered the way so many people, even those that on the surface of things would never admit to being race phobic, do when they see a black person.

I am not saying gays haven't been unjustly persecuted at all. The Nazis killed the pornographers and the gays before they got around to the Jews, for example. Gays have been lynched and murdered across the globe so I definitely am not saying that they haven't had their fair share of civil rights abuses on which to base the context of the statements that sparked your neighbor's reaction.

Think about it this way... a gay person is free to choose to hide their sexuality but a black person is always going to be a slave to their skin color, so in terms of persecution, any kind of discrimination or hate, one group can choose to avoid it while the other cannot.

You know, the ironic thing, all of what I am saying and the point I am trying to make, was imparted to me by a gay black man.

brassmonkey · 06-30-2013, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Far-L

Historically speaking "gay" wasn't even an issue, or even a particular distinction, for several millennia. Even the modern religions didn't start going after gays until only fairly recently in terms of the span of human history.

Also, when you look at someone, you don't automatically think "gay or straight" (unless of course you have gaydar...) but I bet you do see black as black and for a lot of people have a reaction, even involuntarily, due to so much negative stereotyping in our culture towards blacks. Even anti-gay people don't look at a gay person and think they are going to be robbed, raped, and murdered the way so many people, even those that on the surface of things would never admit to being race phobic, do when they see a black person.

I am not saying gays haven't been unjustly persecuted at all. The Nazis killed the pornographers and the gays before they got around to the Jews, for example. Gays have been lynched and murdered across the globe so I definitely am not saying that they haven't had their fair share of civil rights abuses on which to base the context of the statements that sparked your neighbor's reaction.

Think about it this way... a gay person is free to choose to hide their sexuality but a black person is always going to be a slave to their skin color, so in terms of persecution, any kind of discrimination or hate, one group can choose to avoid it while the other cannot.

well said

Phoenix · 06-30-2013, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Far-L

Historically speaking "gay" wasn't even an issue, or even a particular distinction, for several millennia. Even the modern religions didn't start going after gays until only fairly recently in terms of the span of human history.

Also, when you look at someone, you don't automatically think "gay or straight" (unless of course you have gaydar...) but I bet you do see black as black and for a lot of people have a reaction, even involuntarily, due to so much negative stereotyping in our culture towards blacks. Even anti-gay people don't look at a gay person and think they are going to be robbed, raped, and murdered the way so many people, even those that on the surface of things would never admit to being race phobic, do when they see a black person.

I am not saying gays haven't been unjustly persecuted at all. The Nazis killed the pornographers and the gays before they got around to the Jews, for example. Gays have been lynched and murdered across the globe so I definitely am not saying that they haven't had their fair share of civil rights abuses on which to base the context of the statements that sparked your neighbor's reaction.

Think about it this way... a gay person is free to choose to hide their sexuality but a black person is always going to be a slave to their skin color, so in terms of persecution, any kind of discrimination or hate, one group can choose to avoid it while the other cannot.

You know, the ironic thing, all of what I am saying and the point I am trying to make, was imparted to me by a gay black man.

All of these are good points. It just made me laugh that he is doing so well in life yet still has time to worry about someone else that doesn't affect him at all.

Ah well..i don't actually have a dog in the fight, but id like to be able to see both sides of this coin.

Bladewire · 06-30-2013, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Far-L

Think about it this way... a gay person is free to choose to hide their sexuality but a black person is always going to be a slave to their skin color, so in terms of persecution, any kind of discrimination or hate, one group can choose to avoid it while the other cannot.

So Gays are FREE TO HIDE their sexuality.

FREE TO HIDE

wow

And what about the ones who get caught hiding? Their fault to be discriminated against cause they didn't hide well enough?

Gays are still not equal in every state, and most of the world. Blacks are.

You are not killed in other countries for being black, but you legally can be for being Gay.

Far-L · 06-30-2013, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squirtit

So Gays are FREE TO HIDE their sexuality.

FREE TO HIDE

wow

And what about the ones who get caught hiding? Their fault to be discriminated against cause they didn't hide well enough?

Gays are still not equal in every state, and most of the world. Blacks are.

You are not killed in other countries for being black, but you legally can be for being Gay.

]

I seriously think you are missing the point entirely. Moreover, you are obviously trying to twist what I am saying into something entirely different. Take a big deep breath, think of rainbows, and calm down so you can grasp my meaning rather than trying to come up with some argument that takes a few words from a sentence out of context to try and find something to attack.

In the US, Blacks are still lynched too, dragged behind cars, shot for being Black, etc. All sorts of equally heinous shit. What is your point? I am not trying to say that gays are not persecuted worldwide. Nor am I saying that they haven't made a major leap forward with recent political milestones in the US. Oddly enough, the same amendments that helped blacks move forward politically in the US have been repealed within a day of the other being granted so time will only tell if blacks and other minorities are going to be shoved back fifty years in terms of race discrimination. A lot of intelligent people are saying that it will.

Bladewire · 06-30-2013, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Far-L

I seriously think you are missing the point entirely. Moreover, you are obviously trying to twist what I am saying into something entirely different. Take a big deep breath, think of rainbows, and calm down so you can grasp my meaning rather than trying to come up with some argument that takes a few words from a sentence out of context to try and find something to attack.

In the US, Blacks are still lynched too, dragged behind cars, shot for being Black, etc. All sorts of equally heinous shit. What is your point? I am not trying to say that gays are not persecuted worldwide. Nor am I saying that they haven't made a major leap forward with recent political milestones in the US. Oddly enough, the same amendments that helped blacks move forward politically in the US have been repealed within a day of the other being granted so time will only tell if blacks and other minorities are going to be shoved back fifty years in terms of race discrimination. A lot of intelligent people are saying that it will.

"Take a big deep breath, think of rainbows, and calm down ..."

Dude I'm a grown man with a 20 year old straight son I've raised since birth, as a single openly Gay father. Trying to fuck with me using "rainbows" talk to stereotype me into that particular crowd, and imagery, isn't accurate and it doesn't piss me off. It says more about who you are then anything else.

Oddly enough my son and I were talking just the other day about the fact that he has more rights then I do and how he kind of cringes reciting the pledge of allegiance with the kids he teaches at the end "liberty and justice for all"

I understand what you're saying. We disagree. The LGBT community has been fighting a civil rights battle since the early 70's , right after the African American civil rights movement started to subside in '68. Civil rights in America are civil rights, no matter who you are, who you fuck, how you fuck, or what color you fuck.

At the end of the day Gays are not equal, as blacks are, under the eyes of the law. We will keep fighting for our civil liberties until a black Gay man is as equal as his black straight brother.

Far-L · 06-30-2013, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squirtit

"Take a big deep breath, think of rainbows, and calm down ..."

Dude I'm a grown man with a 20 year old straight son I've raised since birth, as a single openly Gay father. Trying to fuck with me using "rainbows" talk to stereotype me into that particular crowd, and imagery, isn't accurate and it doesn't piss me off. It says more about who you are then anything else.

Oddly enough my son and I were talking just the other day about the fact that he has more rights then I do and how he kind of cringes reciting the pledge of allegiance with the kids he teaches at the end "liberty and justice for all"

I understand what you're saying. We disagree. The LGBT community has been fighting a civil rights battle since the early 70's , right after the African American civil rights movement started to subside in '68. Civil rights in America are civil rights, no matter who you are, who you fuck, how you fuck, or what color you fuck.

At the end of the day Gays are not equal, as blacks are, under the eyes of the law. We will keep fighting for our civil liberties until a black Gay man is as equal as his black straight brother.

Ok, on that we certainly agree. Sorry about the rainbow comment, was just trying for some levity since I thought the whole conversation was taking a bad turn when I felt you were taking me out of context, which I still think you are, because I am not framing this as a "blacks have more or less rights than gays in the US", I am merely trying to help others understand why blacks might feel the way they do about comparing something that really is still apples and oranges, not apples and apples.

To me, Harvey Milk is just as important to the cause of justice and equality as MLK. The Stonewall riots in NYC just as important as every mile marched in the support of liberty. The heroes of these movements are joined not only in the blood they shed for the cause, both very red by the way, but also in the spirit of being true warriors of peace fighting for freedom.

Gays definitely have reason to celebrate that is certain. Blacks might be looking at going back to the early 60's. Little step forward, big step back. Being in this biz, both of us should consider it our sworn duty to protect and defend freedom and personal liberties as well as conquer sexism and discrimination of race, creed, and sexuality. On that, I think we agree too.

ilnjscb · 07-02-2013, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Far-L

I seriously think you are missing the point entirely. Moreover, you are obviously trying to twist what I am saying into something entirely different. Take a big deep breath, think of rainbows, and calm down so you can grasp my meaning rather than trying to come up with some argument that takes a few words from a sentence out of context to try and find something to attack.

In the US, Blacks are still lynched too, dragged behind cars, shot for being Black, etc. All sorts of equally heinous shit. What is your point? I am not trying to say that gays are not persecuted worldwide. Nor am I saying that they haven't made a major leap forward with recent political milestones in the US. Oddly enough, the same amendments that helped blacks move forward politically in the US have been repealed within a day of the other being granted so time will only tell if blacks and other minorities are going to be shoved back fifty years in terms of race discrimination. A lot of intelligent people are saying that it will.

Never like to disagree with you- but that shit is done by criminals who stand a good chance to get punished for it. The people you saw hanged above were hanged for not hiding well enough, and daring to be who they are. They were hanged in front of little kids and the people who hanged them laughed about what they did.

You're also seemingly looking at it with very American eyes. Blacks aren't lynched by whites in Kenya, but gays are damn sure jailed right now. "In February 2010, a rumor spread in the coastal town of Mtwapa that two Kenyan men were going to marry in a local hotel. The rumor unleashed a "house-to-house witch hunt by anti-gay vigilantes, street attacks targeting gay men, the sacking of an AIDS-fighting medical center, and a widening wave of ultra-homophobic national media coverage"

False Gay Marriage Rumor Sparks Kenyan Riots

In Sudan right now, a gay man who chooses not to hide risks being put to death. There is no country on this earth where a black man can be put to death for being black. 79 countries criminalize being gay right now, with penalties ranging from jail to 10 years hard labor to death. There is no country on this earth where being of recent African descent is grounds for criminal charges.

So if gay people are not careful, and don't hide well enough, and don't choose to just not be gay, 40% of the countries in the world will prosecute them for it. Yes, it is different from being black, although, there are numerous people who are both, and they seem to really believe that they have the right to be who they are, and not have to spend their days in hiding, terrified of being hung in public by police and military.

I still don't understand why discrimination of any type is somehow more tolerable than any other type.

Far-L · 07-03-2013, 01:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilnjscb

Never like to disagree with you- but that shit is done by criminals who stand a good chance to get punished for it. The people you saw hanged above were hanged for not hiding well enough, and daring to be who they are. They were hanged in front of little kids and the people who hanged them laughed about what they did.

You're also seemingly looking at it with very American eyes. Blacks aren't lynched by whites in Kenya, but gays are damn sure jailed right now. "In February 2010, a rumor spread in the coastal town of Mtwapa that two Kenyan men were going to marry in a local hotel. The rumor unleashed a "house-to-house witch hunt by anti-gay vigilantes, street attacks targeting gay men, the sacking of an AIDS-fighting medical center, and a widening wave of ultra-homophobic national media coverage"

False Gay Marriage Rumor Sparks Kenyan Riots

In Sudan right now, a gay man who chooses not to hide risks being put to death. There is no country on this earth where a black man can be put to death for being black. 79 countries criminalize being gay right now, with penalties ranging from jail to 10 years hard labor to death. There is no country on this earth where being of recent African descent is grounds for criminal charges.

So if gay people are not careful, and don't hide well enough, and don't choose to just not be gay, 40% of the countries in the world will prosecute them for it. Yes, it is different from being black, although, there are numerous people who are both, and they seem to really believe that they have the right to be who they are, and not have to spend their days in hiding, terrified of being hung in public by police and military.

I still don't understand why discrimination of any type is somehow more tolerable than any other type.

You and Squirtit still are missing my point by a million mile march. I am not saying anyone should have to hide by choice or otherwise. I am NOT saying gays are not persecuted worldwide. You are right, not only gays, but any sexual deviancy is in many countries is punishable by death, meaning everyone on this forum would pretty much be executed in places like Iran, etc., so that is not the point at all.

Pay close attention. Get the frickin' chips off your shoulders. This is what I am saying:

I can understand why Blacks, especially those with a history of slavery, which does not include every black person worldwide, might not agree with slavery being comparable to the recent political advancements of gays in North America. That is all, just try to stand in their moccasins instead of trying to twist my point into something that is 100% incorrect, you will be a better person, regardless of your sexuality, for the effort.

Do you understand? Stop trying to twist what I am saying into something completely inaccurate.

How on Earth are you trying to say that I am somehow approving of discrimination on any level?

For the record, Kenya had to have a major revolution and resort to incredibly barbaric terrorism to overcome colonial rule not really that long ago. Gays are horrifically persecuted in not just the Sudan but still in the US, regardless of any political achievements. So are blacks. If you are black AND gay then you are unbelievably fucked in terms of how easy a target you become for the worst kind of discrimination.

By the way, ask a black person in America how many places they feel safe driving in without feeling like they might be guilty of driving while black, or wonder how safe they feel if a cop pulls them over. Ask a black person how much they feel like "the laws" protect their rights in America.

Sorry but being gay or pro-gay, black white or green doesn't give anyone the right to be naive either.

ilnjscb · 07-03-2013, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Far-L

meaning everyone on this forum would pretty much be executed in places like Iran, etc.,

This we agree on

Say what you will about GFY and non-business threads, debate is healthy, and you can't have these kinds of charged discussions in any other forum really.

06-29-2013, 04:49 PM	#52
ilnjscb Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 8,800	Once again, how does it matter so much who is being discriminated against? It doesn't seem like gay men and women are asking for preferential contracts and preferential admission into college, it sounds like they want equal right to marry. How is that bad? How does that negatively affect any race of people?