Are there any good reasons WHY McDonalds workers shouldn't be earning $15 to $20 an hour? - Page 5 - GoFuckYourself.com

Barry-xlovecam · 08-07-2013, 03:49 PM

Don't buy any fast food then -- Boycott!

Fast food is poisoning America -- you will live longer without it anyway

BFT3K · 08-07-2013, 04:18 PM

Listen, I know exactly what it's like to work hard. I spent 32 years busting my hump at a chicken assembly plant in Mexico City. I started at the bottom of the totem pole, just like everyone else did back then.

For the first 2 years I was kicked in the balls by the townfolk, every day, until I finally earned their respect! Only then was I allowed to even TOUCH the chicken parts.

Two years attaching legs, four grueling years attaching the wings... I was determined to work my ass off and get to the top!

Then 30 years later all of my labor and devotion paid off, and it finally happened - I was a beaker!

No more slimy parts for me, now I just take the chicken, slap on a beak, and cash my check!

So don't tell me about hard work. I put in my time young fella!

kane · 08-07-2013, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

Poor people have no clue what they are worth. They also tend to do very little to increase their value to employers.

The market determines your value... end of story. When you have skills, knowledge, a great attitude and you're willing to go above and beyond, your value goes up.

If you are getting $7.00 an hour, its not because you bring $30.00 per hour of value to a business.. its because any chimpanzee can do your job. Until you educate yourself, out-work, out-learn and out-try everyone around you... you have little value.

When i was 19 years old, I moved to Kodiak, Alaska. I got a job at a fishing related company (selling nets and supplies, repairing fishing gear (mostly bottom and midwater trawls) and so on). I busted my ass. I made little money... but when someone needed something, i ran. When someone asked me to carry something... i grabbed 4 when others grabbed 1. When someone needed help, i stayed late. I went above and beyond in everything. I started working on the fishing gear (which is kinda complex) and tried to learn everything I could. I tried to become knowledgeable in everything. I tried to become very good at repairs to complex midwater trawls. I learned everything i could. Everything. I never stopped trying to learn and understand.

With that, doors started opening. With that, people started coming to me offering me jobs on very nice trawlers. Jobs that paid 10-20-30k per month. When i got great jobs, i stepped up my game. When we hadn't slept for 3 days, i was the only one smiling. When we hadn't ate for 12 hrs, I was out-working everyone around me. When someone needed to stay longer in the middle of the Bering Sea in February, i always volunteered. When anyone needed anything, i was there and trying twice as hard as anyone else. When we weren't fishing, I was busy working full time for huge net companies that modified/repaired bottom and midwater trawls for the biggests and most successful boats in the Bering Sea fleet.

With that, every door possible was open to me. Everyone knew me. I knew everyone. Everyone knew I worked hard. I had job offers non stop. I worked many years making 150-250 k a year with no education at all.

SO FUCK EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU WITH A BULLSHIT IDEA OF WHAT YOU ARE OWED. YOU ARE OWED NOTHING. YOUR VALUE IS NOT DETERMINED BY YOUR OWN SUBJECTIVE SENSE OF SELF ENTITLEMENT. YOUR VALUE IS EXACTLY THAT... WHAT YOU ARE WORTH. IF YOU ARE MAKING $8.00 AN HOUR... IT'S BECAUSE YOU ARE A FUCKING MORON WITH NO PLAN. IF YOU THINK GOVERNMENT IS GOING TO FIX THAT FOR YOU, I PRAY TO GOD YOU GET YOUR NUTS CRUSHED IN A VICE SO I DON'T HAVE TO SUPPORT YOU AND YOUR WORTHLESS FUCKING KIDS WHO WILL LIKELY END UP IN PRISON ANYWAY.

That is all.

Shut the fuck up and start bettering yourself. Be the best at everything you do, be the best person you can be... strive for excellence and doors will always open for you. Sit around and bitch and whine and doors will never open for you. Welcome to life. It's cruel. But its far more fair, than unfair.

Just out of curiosity, what was it that made you decide to leave that industry? I know two people who have worked fishing/crabbing boats and both of them stopped doing it because their bodies were broken down. One had a 40lbs box of frozen crab dropped on his back from 15 feet and the other blew out one knee once and the other knee twice. Did your body just give up or did you decide it was time to do something else?

TheSquealer · 08-07-2013, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kane

Just out of curiosity, what was it that made you decide to leave that industry? I know two people who have worked fishing/crabbing boats and both of them stopped doing it because their bodies were broken down. One had a 40lbs box of frozen crab dropped on his back from 15 feet and the other blew out one knee once and the other knee twice. Did your body just give up or did you decide it was time to do something else?

A lot of things. More than anything, the money isn't worth it or loses its luster when you end up spending 8 months or more with the same 5 people in the middle of the Bering Sea. it was something i was basically born doing and never really wanted to do.

Apart from the seasons, there is time in the shipyards where you also need to be there as well and its just draining. You wake up one day and have no clue where many years went. You can't really have a life and can't have relationships. I could probably count on one hand the number of people i know that fish full time like that who didn't end up coming home one day to find the wife had drained the accounts and ran off with someone.

I was never a fan of crabbing. Its a very hit and miss and the thing with crabbing is that its even more work when you're not catching anything. If you've watched Deadliest Catch (many of those guys are from Kodiak), you get what I mean. Setting pots, hauling pots, stacking pots on deck, running for 30 minutes, setting pots again etc etc etc. Whether they are full of crab or not, the work is brutal and money is hit and miss. You see and remember all the big paydays... but dont really see 1/2 the fleet that had a disappointing season. Typical crab pots weigh about 750 pounds empty and after pushing them around on deck a few 1000 times, with no sleep, little food and no money, everyone is basically exhausted and homicidal.

Fishing pollock is a bit different if you are delivering to a shore based plant, you are fishing maybe 24 hrs, then running to town for 24-48hrs to offload.. then back out for 24 hrs or whatever. If you are delivering to floating processors, then you might be on a schedule where you deliver every 18hrs or something, so basically you set the gear (the net) and just tow it until its time to deliver... usually transferring 200 tons at a time.

To my point about hard work and bettering ones self, i have not been to dutch harbor in a decade and STILL have people calling me to do one money season. 2 years ago, i was offered a job to fill in for someone for "A Season" which is when the fish are more valuable as they are filled with roe and could have made around 80k or so for 45 days work, but didn't go. It's just not worth it to me. But its testimony to the power of hard work, getting along with people, bettering yourself, learning as much as you can and always trying to out-work everyone around you.... There is always a huge demand to hard workers and talented people and those people always land on their feet.

kane · 08-07-2013, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

A lot of things. More than anything, the money isn't worth it or loses its luster when you end up spending 8 months or more with the same 5 people in the middle of the Bering Sea. it was something i was basically born doing and never really wanted to do.

Apart from the seasons, there is time in the shipyards where you also need to be there as well and its just draining. You wake up one day and have no clue where many years went. You can't really have a life and can't have relationships. I could probably count on one hand the number of people i know that fish full time like that who didn't end up coming home one day to find the wife had drained the accounts and ran off with someone.

I was never a fan of crabbing. Its a very hit and miss and the thing with crabbing is that its even more work when you're not catching anything. If you've watched Deadliest Catch (many of those guys are from Kodiak), you get what I mean. Setting pots, hauling pots, stacking pots on deck, running for 30 minutes, setting pots again etc etc etc. Whether they are full of crab or not, the work is brutal and money is hit and miss. You see and remember all the big paydays... but dont really see 1/2 the fleet that had a disappointing season. Typical crab pots weigh about 750 pounds empty and after pushing them around on deck a few 1000 times, with no sleep, little food and no money, everyone is basically exhausted and homicidal.

Fishing pollock is a bit different if you are delivering to a shore based plant, you are fishing maybe 24 hrs, then running to town for 24-48hrs to offload.. then back out for 24 hrs or whatever. If you are delivering to floating processors, then you might be on a schedule where you deliver every 18hrs or something, so basically you set the gear (the net) and just tow it until its time to deliver... usually transferring 200 tons at a time.

To my point about hard work and bettering ones self, i have not been to dutch harbor in a decade and STILL have people calling me to do one money season. 2 years ago, i was offered a job to fill in for someone for "A Season" which is when the fish are more valuable as they are filled with roe and could have made around 80k or so for 45 days work, but didn't go. It's just not worth it to me. But its testimony to the power of hard work, getting along with people, bettering yourself, learning as much as you can and always trying to out-work everyone around you.... There is always a huge demand to hard workers and talented people and those people always land on their feet.

It sounds like a pretty crazy, difficult life. I knew a little bit about it and have seen shows like deadliest catch, but with those shows they make it out like you go work for 8-12 weeks, make 60-80K then take the rest of the year off. Obviously most people don't do that.

It is a testament to hard work when years later people are still calling you to work for them. When I was 18 I went to work for Radio Shack, which is (or at least then in the 1989 was) a shitty place to work. I didn't realize it at first. I worked my ass off, learned everything I could and was quickly promoted from part time seasonal help to full time and within 6 months I was basically the assistant manager because I would do the books, make bank drops, I had keys and an alarm code so I would open the store and could run the place.

The problem is they don't pay worth a shit. I got minimum wage or 6.25% commission, whichever was more. The store I was in was one of the smaller stores so there just wasn't the foot traffic to make much money and anytime I tried to do outside sales (like I once went to a local private school and talked to them about buying computers) they would tell me that I can't do that. I had some good weeks including one when a guy came in bought 14 cell phones for his company (they were about $1200 each then), but it became evident that the only way to move up was to join the management training program and work towards that. I didn't really care for the place and hated the district manager so I ended up leaving. The final straw was when the store moved, I put in a ton of overtime helping get the new location set up and moving everything over and then they didn't want to pay me for those hours and told me I should just volunteer to do that work.

I went on vacation a few months later and never went back. Three days into my vacation I went in and gave the manager my keys. He was pissed that I wasn't going to give them notice. I told them I was giving 10 days notice, I was just going to be on vacation during it.

Six months later I get a call from the manager asking if I would consider coming back. He tells me he has gone through four people since I left and I was the best employee he ever had. I told him if he had said that while I worked there instead of always shitting on me as a way to impress the district manager and had he gone to bat for me to get me more money I might have stayed. While his call didn't really get me anything that would better my future, it did feel good knowing that he had finally realized my worth and I learned things while working there that I was able to use later down the road to help me make more money so it was a nice stepping stone that also helped me appreciate better jobs in the future.

TheSquealer · 08-07-2013, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kane

It sounds like a pretty crazy, difficult life. I knew a little bit about it and have seen shows like deadliest catch, but with those shows they make it out like you go work for 8-12 weeks, make 60-80K then take the rest of the year off. Obviously most people don't do that.

It's been a long time and seasons change yearly because its based on the quota and the number of boats registered to fish those quotas and their historic catch records... so things can be different right now or this season or whatever, but with crab, there a few main seasons.. there is Bairdi and Opelio (both are commonly known as "snow crab"). There are three main types of king crab - Blue, Brown and Red. Not many boats fish for brown king crab because they are very deep... but the guys I used to know that did it, did it all year long. I actually saw some in Whole Foods day before yesterday and they were calling it "Golden Crab". I think opelio is usually a short season still, like 5-6 weeks. Bairdi is longer but they are fewer and harder to catch. Those two seasons alone used to be pretty much most of the year but quotas got smaller in the late 90s/early 2000s as pressure increased on them. Blue king crab is usually about 2 weeks or so. Red king crab is short. Usually 2 weeks maybe. Then usually they will do other things like fish for cod with crab pots, they will tender salmon or herring for the fish processing plants, do halibut and other stuff. Bigger boats can't afford to do all the misc stuff because they will burn too much fuel/food and have bigger crews with smaller shares. Smaller boats (124' and smaller) often do. So with all that, there is also all the shipyard work.

On a side note that is sort of interesting... 1981 was the last big year for Red King Crab. Seasons were very long - months and months and they were getting several dollars a pound. People made huge money. Random felons who couldn't speak English could be walking down the dock and get a job just because a boat would be short a man and had to leave right then and there and that guy could make 30k or more a month. After that, they were gone and it was basically state-wide. Bering Sea side and Pacific side. just a massive die off. 1982 came and there was nothing. As far as I know, there is still no explanation for it. Same thing happened to a major shrimp fishery as well. Even today, Red King Crab seasons are basically very short... couple weeks or less.

Quote:

Six months later I get a call from the manager asking if I would consider coming back. He tells me he has gone through four people since I left and I was the best employee he ever had. I told him if he had said that while I worked there instead of always shitting on me as a way to impress the district manager and had he gone to bat for me to get me more money I might have stayed. While his call didn't really get me anything that would better my future, it did feel good knowing that he had finally realized my worth and I learned things while working there that I was able to use later down the road to help me make more money so it was a nice stepping stone that also helped me appreciate better jobs in the future.

That's a great story. That's what i am talking about. As obnoxious or arrogant as i might sound, i have tremendous respect for anyone who will work hard and try their best to do a great job. I don't care what it is. Its just something i notice, whether its a 15yr old mopping a McDonald's floor or anyone else. I love to see people work hard and try. Those people will always do good in life and they will always be contributing much more than they take. They will never be complaining about why they deserve more... they will be working for more.

kane · 08-07-2013, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

It's been a long time and seasons change yearly because its based on the quota and the number of boats registered to fish those quotas and their historic catch records... so things can be different right now or this season or whatever, but with crab, there a few main seasons.. there is Bairdi and Opelio (both are commonly known as "snow crab"). There are three main types of king crab - Blue, Brown and Red. Not many boats fish for brown king crab because they are very deep... but the guys I used to know that did it, did it all year long. I actually saw some in Whole Foods day before yesterday and they were calling it "Golden Crab". I think opelio is usually a short season still, like 5-6 weeks. Bairdi is longer but they are fewer and harder to catch. Those two seasons alone used to be pretty much most of the year but quotas got smaller in the late 90s/early 2000s as pressure increased on them. Blue king crab is usually about 2 weeks or so. Red king crab is short. Usually 2 weeks maybe. Then usually they will do other things like fish for cod with crab pots, they will tender salmon or herring for the fish processing plants, do halibut and other stuff. Bigger boats can't afford to do all the misc stuff because they will burn too much fuel/food and have bigger crews with smaller shares. Smaller boats (124' and smaller) often do. So with all that, there is also all the shipyard work.

On a side note that is sort of interesting... 1981 was the last big year for Red King Crab. Seasons were very long - months and months and they were getting several dollars a pound. People made huge money. Random felons who couldn't speak English could be walking down the dock and get a job just because a boat would be short a man and had to leave right then and there and that guy could make 30k or more a month. After that, they were gone and it was basically state-wide. Bering Sea side and Pacific side. just a massive die off. 1982 came and there was nothing. As far as I know, there is still no explanation for it. Same thing happened to a major shrimp fishery as well. Even today, Red King Crab seasons are basically very short... couple weeks or less.

Sorry to hijack the thread and turn into the fishing/crabbing thread, but this is a subject that fascinates me. Speaking of felons, It seems like this is a job that a lot of guys go to looking for a new start. Did you find that there were a lot of people with criminal pasts or who had questionable backgrounds working there?

Quote:

That's a great story. That's what i am talking about. As obnoxious or arrogant as i might sound, i have tremendous respect for anyone who will work hard and try their best to do a great job. I don't care what it is. Its just something i notice, whether its a 15yr old mopping a McDonald's floor or anyone else. I love to see people work hard and try. Those people will always do good in life and they will always be contributing much more than they take. They will never be complaining about why they deserve more... they will be working for more.

My best friend's wife is a chef. She graduated culinary school about six years ago and has worked her ass off since. She started on the prep line and worked her way up at one place then left and went to work running the food services at an assisted living center. They changed ownership and fired her because they didn't want to pay her what she was making. Over the next few years she worked a few different places, always worked hard and learned what she could. A few months ago she was hired on as the executive chef at a restaurant. The manager of the place knew her from working with her elsewhere and called her when the position was open. She went in, they talked and she was offered the job on the spot. Her work history basically got her the job.

Recently she got together with a dozen or so people she graduated culinary school with. With the exception of one who is working for a famous chef in Los Angeles the rest are all still line cooks and were talking about how lucky she was to get the job she has. She said she went on a rant explaining that it wasn't luck. She worked hard and put herself out there. She didn't just come in, do her job well enough to not get fired and then go home. She said most of them just shook their heads and didn't get it. They didn't seem to make the connection be working hard and smart and moving up.

TheSquealer · 08-07-2013, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kane

Sorry to hijack the thread and turn into the fishing/crabbing thread, but this is a subject that fascinates me. Speaking of felons, It seems like this is a job that a lot of guys go to looking for a new start. Did you find that there were a lot of people with criminal pasts or who had questionable backgrounds working there?

Actually, yeah. It was very common - particularly through the 90s... lots of East LA gang bangers trying to leave that life because most processing plants are all mexicans and spanish speaking. There was never any employment docs or anything for fishing boats. They would just hand you a check. It took a lot of years for boat owners to get organized, get corporate, have contracts with crew, have all id's, report earnings to the IRS etc. It was very lawless. People could work under assumed names and as a bonus, be gone at sea for 6 months and make great money while they waited for the LAPD, FBI or whoever to stop looking for them.

Imagine a place like Dutch Harbor... its remote and flying in and out is very dependent on weather. There used to be no police there. So someone could butcher someone else and eat the body and it still might take 3 weeks for police to get there. That part was nutty. I saw a lot of crazy shit happen with no help to be found. Particularly in a few villages where I spent my summers growing up. Alaska Natives + Alcohol + Too Much Free Time = Bad Times for All.

Quote:

Recently she got together with a dozen or so people she graduated culinary school with. With the exception of one who is working for a famous chef in Los Angeles the rest are all still line cooks and were talking about how lucky she was to get the job she has. She said she went on a rant explaining that it wasn't luck. She worked hard and put herself out there. She didn't just come in, do her job well enough to not get fired and then go home. She said most of them just shook their heads and didn't get it. They didn't seem to make the connection be working hard and smart and moving up.

Trend · 08-07-2013, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackmonsters

Let me check you on some stupid shit said over and over again by stupid fucks.

Almost every football player getting paid has completed a degree from a major University.

.

Almost every? Not even close.

According to Dan Masonson, the former corporate communications manager of the National Football League (NFL), and supported by the NFL Players Association - 46 percent of NFL players last year had a college degree.

High IQ's ? Not in finance ..... ( they must be supporters of the $20 min wage crew)

According to Sports Illustrated, roughly 78 percent of NFL players are bankrupt or under financial stress within two years of retirement.

pornguy · 08-08-2013, 08:04 AM

No I dont agree that raising them that much would help. The people doing the work will still be lazy. If they want more make them earn more. Raise the min up by 40cents per hour and if they want more than that give them commission.

Tom_PM · 08-08-2013, 08:28 AM

I worked for Radio Shack as well for a decade during the 90's and was manager after a couple of years, but I made that happen without managers help mostly. I got tired of literally babysitting one managers kid on his day off (while working alone) so moved to the biggest store in the district. The day that manager told me to follow a guy around the store "because he's a 'n-word'" I left his store and moved to where I still am because this is where the largest district office is for this region. Got my own store and worked at several even winning two 50% sales gain awards back to back when I realized something. The ct-350 cell phones were discontinued down to zero dollars so I got the entire country to send me all their good stock, "sold" them for 1 penny provided that the people signed up with the carrier. I literally had a line going out the store that summer for almost two solid months in a row, it was kick ass business with HUGE profits (and bonuses). Nobody was doing that back then in the 90's; giving away free phones with contract.

I got tired of that job when we got a thankless prick for a district manager who loved the "bro's" club more than people in adult do. Just a gossip lover who spent his days on the phone bullshitting. I was all about working hard and serving the customer, not being one of the cool kids on the block and wearing a fancy watch. Still am. When I started making more money in adult than I did at my job, I took a demotion and finally quit to start doing this full time in late 1999.

Before that it was years at a commercial photo lab preceeded by years in manufacturing and quality control of military and commercial circuit boards.

Some people are going to just work hard enough not to get fired no matter what the wage is, and some are going to work hard because that's what they're supposed to do internally. When I started working, minimum wage was 2.75 or so per hour and if you suggested it might be $5 the same exact people would be telling you how society would collapse just like today. The actual number isn't important it's the mindset. It's not just "OMG that's too much for me to pay!" It's long term and widespread ripple effect.

Barefootsies · 08-08-2013, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom_PM

Some people are going to just work hard enough not to get fired no matter what the wage is, and some are going to work hard because that's what they're supposed to do internally.

That's what makes up most of society today unfortunately.

People with their hand out wanting entitlements or endless excuses and blame for their own poor choices in life.

_Richard_ · 08-08-2013, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BFT3K

Listen, I know exactly what it's like to work hard. I spent 32 years busting my hump at a chicken assembly plant in Mexico City. I started at the bottom of the totem pole, just like everyone else did back then.

For the first 2 years I was kicked in the balls by the townfolk, every day, until I finally earned their respect! Only then was I allowed to even TOUCH the chicken parts.

Two years attaching legs, four grueling years attaching the wings... I was determined to work my ass off and get to the top!

Then 30 years later all of my labor and devotion paid off, and it finally happened - I was a beaker!

No more slimy parts for me, now I just take the chicken, slap on a beak, and cash my check!

So don't tell me about hard work. I put in my time young fella!

blackmonsters · 08-08-2013, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trend

Almost every? Not even close.

According to Dan Masonson, the former corporate communications manager of the National Football League (NFL), and supported by the NFL Players Association - 46 percent of NFL players last year had a college degree.

High IQ's ? Not in finance ..... ( they must be supporters of the $20 min wage crew)

According to Sports Illustrated, roughly 78 percent of NFL players are bankrupt or under financial stress within two years of retirement.

Why don't you retire 2 years after college and see how fucking bankrupt you become.

WTF!

The "Typical time"(*not average) spent in pro football is 2 years. You need 5 years or more to get a retirement check.

Nobody would be bankrupt with a retirement check.

Keep trying though.

Face it; the reason you are debating this is because you have nothing more than a high school diploma and the only way to poke at the college athletes who are better looking, more manly and praised, is to call them stupid.

You still lose though.

.

* Not using average because a 10 yr vet makes two 1 year players fit in the average of 4 yrs when that's total bullshit since 2/3 of that set only had one year.

Tom_PM · 08-08-2013, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

That's what makes up most of society today unfortunately.

People with their hand out wanting entitlements or endless excuses and blame for their own poor choices in life.

I'm sure there is abuse, locally 30+ people were busted last year for welfare fraud after something like 2 years of investigation. I'm also sure there are a great many (most?) like me who only used it when they truly needed it and didn't feel happy about it.

Barefootsies · 08-08-2013, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom_PM

I'm sure there is abuse, locally 30+ people were busted last year for welfare fraud after something like 2 years of investigation. I'm also sure there are a great many (most?) like me who only used it when they truly needed it and didn't feel happy about it.

Back when I was in college, I can't think of a SINGLE PERSON in my age group who would have had the lack of pride to go an get on food stamps of public assistance, now it seems to be pretty common. People claiming they live on their own, and below the poverty line, so they can get food stamp of alike assistance while in college.

That is not what these programs are for..... kids who have parents and at college. These programs and their funding are for those who lose their jobs, and have a family to support while they get back on their feet as a short term, stop gap, solution.

johnnyloadproductions · 08-08-2013, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom_PM

I'm sure there is abuse, locally 30+ people were busted last year for welfare fraud after something like 2 years of investigation. I'm also sure there are a great many (most?) like me who only used it when they truly needed it and didn't feel happy about it.

Which is why shame is good in instances like these. Sometimes I head to walmart later in the evening (11pm or midnight) and that's when you see people with food stamps marching through, perhaps it's shame.

I remember a guy buying 8 cans of whip cream (too get high off of whatever aerosols it contained) by using food stamps.

Some people truly are helpless, makes it hard to distinguish with all the leeching of the system.

Barefootsies · 08-08-2013, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyloadproductions

Some people truly are helpless, makes it hard to distinguish with all the leeching of the system.

Correct. Now you have a nation of people who want endless government and corporate handouts, and somehow feel they are entitled to them despite they didn't do any work to achieve them. Additionally, they seem to have no shame about going and applying for these sort of benefits knowing goddamn well they were intended for those who are TRULY on the ropes of life and need some help.

I guess this is what you get in a society where no one can be picked last in baseball, hit in dodge ball, fail a grade with an F, be held back, told no for any want or desire, and they never get to know what being disciplined by a parent is without the cops being called.

I am not sure which is worse, the punk ass parents or the lifetime politicians who cater to this garbage.

1215 · 08-08-2013, 10:33 AM

minimum skills needed. minimum wage earned.

besides that, fast food, as tasty as it might be, destroys your body.

i'd rather not pay them any more for making me fat!!!

i can get fat for free!

Barefootsies · 08-08-2013, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1215

minimum skills needed. minimum wage earned.

Grapesoda · 08-08-2013, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

That's what makes up most of society today unfortunately.

People with their hand out wanting entitlements or endless excuses and blame for their own poor choices in life.

always be willing to give a man a hand up, but not a hand out, was what I was taught

Grapesoda · 08-08-2013, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Correct. Now you have a nation of people who want endless government and corporate handouts, and somehow feel they are entitled to them despite they didn't do any work to achieve them. Additionally, they seem to have no shame about going and applying for these sort of benefits knowing goddamn well they were intended for those who are TRULY on the ropes of life and need some help.

I guess this is what you get in a society where no one can be picked last in baseball, hit in dodge ball, fail a grade with an F, be held back, told no for any want or desire, and they never get to know what being disciplined by a parent is without the cops being called.

I am not sure which is worse, the punk ass parents or the lifetime politicians who cater to this garbage.

50 years of minority politics

Barefootsies · 08-08-2013, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

always be willing to give a man a hand up, but not a hand out, was what I was taught

"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime."

SuckOnThis · 08-08-2013, 10:47 AM

So fast food workers wanting a raise is now considered an entitlement program? Where the fuck do you people come up with this bullshit?

TheSquealer · 08-08-2013, 10:50 AM

There is a seafood processing plant in Bellingham Washington. Seafood plants employ a lot of cheap labor that require no skills or education. My friends family owned this plant (and a few more). At the time, the business was valued at about $50,000,000.00. It was a decent sized operation.

Boats bring in fish on ice. Flounder, sole, rockfish etc. When they hit the dock, guys go into the fish holds and shovel them into brailers where they are then put on ice until processed (fillets etc)

Growing up in Alaska, this sort of work was basically 7.00 an hour work. Zero skills, zero talent required. In fact, most couldn't even speak English and prayed for overtime. Basically, they didn't even want to work if they couldn't work 18hr days - because most Mexicans, unlike lazy Americans understand the value of hard work and pride themselves on working hard.

I was stunned to learn my friends company though was paying them $15.00 an hour. PLUS full medical and dental, paid vacations and so on. These sorts of costs, radically change the economics and viability of the business.

Guess what? These uneducated, unskilled morons were unionized. That means that in addition to getting many times more than anyone else in history paid for this work, they were also never satisfied. They, in their minds, were always being exploited and taken advantage of.

Net result... the company eventually had to scale back operations at that plant and fire most of them.

This is exactly where the conversation where the uneducated, unskilled and to put it politely "unsophisticated" lowest common denominator of society determines they are entitled to more and more and more, irregardless of the economics of the business leads.

And when business is bad... how much money and benefits do they give back? Zero.

TheSquealer · 08-08-2013, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuckOnThis

So fast food workers wanting a raise is now considered an entitlement program? Where the fuck do you people come up with this bullshit?

We understand that people are paid what they are worth. It's determined by ones skills, education, ability, willingness to work and the free market. Anyone that can be super easily replaced by a monkey or kiosk, has done nothing to improve their value in the work place.

We also understand that you can't just arbitrarily and radically change the economics of trillions of dollars worth of companies.

Barefootsies · 08-08-2013, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

Guess what? These uneducated, unskilled morons were unionized. That means that in addition to getting many times more than anyone else in history paid for this work, they were also never satisfied. They, in their minds, were always being exploited and taken advantage of.

Imagine that.

arock10 · 08-08-2013, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

There is a seafood processing plant in Bellingham Washington. Seafood plants employ a lot of cheap labor that require no skills or education. My friends family owned this plant (and a few more). At the time, the business was valued at about $50,000,000.00. It was a decent sized operation.

Boats bring in fish on ice. Flounder, sole, rockfish etc. When they hit the dock, guys go into the fish holds and shovel them into brailers where they are then put on ice until processed (fillets etc)

Growing up in Alaska, this sort of work was basically 7.00 an hour work. Zero skills, zero talent required. In fact, most couldn't even speak English and prayed for overtime. Basically, they didn't even want to work if they couldn't work 18hr days - because most Mexicans, unlike lazy Americans understand the value of hard work and pride themselves on working hard.

I was stunned to learn my friends company though was paying them $15.00 an hour. PLUS full medical and dental, paid vacations and so on. These sorts of costs, radically change the economics and viability of the business.

Guess what? These uneducated, unskilled morons were unionized. That means that in addition to getting many times more than anyone else in history paid for this work, they were also never satisfied. They, in their minds, were always being exploited and taken advantage of.

Net result... the company eventually had to scale back operations at that plant and fire most of them.

This is exactly where the conversation where the uneducated, unskilled and to put it politely "unsophisticated" lowest common denominator of society determines they are entitled to more and more and more, irregardless of the economics of the business leads.

And when business is bad... how much money and benefits do they give back? Zero.

"how much money and benefits do they give back? Zero"

well other then spending all the money they make and putting it back into the economy...

The reason why mcdonalds workers don't make $15 an hr is because it would hurt corporate profits. The minimum wage when taking into account inflation has been in decline for decades while corporate profits continue to skyrocket.

You complain about handouts to poorer people while the corporations enjoy absurd amounts of corporate welfare while making record profits. Just keep repeating what your Koch masters say.

TheSquealer · 08-08-2013, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arock10

"how much money and benefits do they give back? Zero"

well other then spending all the money they make and putting it back into the economy...

The reason why mcdonalds workers don't make $15 an hr is because it would hurt corporate profits. The minimum wage when taking into account inflation has been in decline for decades while corporate profits continue to skyrocket.

1) Corporate profits "continue to sky rocket"? Hmmmm.. we are bordering on recession STILL and employment numbers are less than impressive. So i am not sure where all this "skyrocketing" is happening.

2) Bad news buddy. Businesses are in the business of making a profit. That is not just how a business survives and employs people, its how an economy works and grows. Money is not created in a vacuum or by government. it is created by entrepreneurs.

3) We live in a capitalist country. Not the Soviet Union. If you want to be paid more... work harder, better yourself and create value to employers in yourself.

Otherwise, you are free to start your own business to demonstrate how wrong every business owner is.

If we were the best educated and most skilled and talented nation on the earth and rocket scientists were routinely working at McDonalds for 7.00 an hour, i'd have some concerns.

However, i have never met an unskilled, uneducated person that didn't feel he deserved more.. so...

4) If people aren't beating down your door to hire someone because they are the best at what they do, they work harder, they are highly skilled, easy to get along with and always get the job done.. then that individual needs to do a little soul searching rather than blaming Walmart.

Lets stop pretending that companies don't want talented people and great employees and are willing to pay for them.

Barefootsies · 08-08-2013, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arock10

You complain about handouts to poorer people while the corporations enjoy absurd amounts of corporate welfare while making record profits. Just keep repeating what your Koch masters say.

If you can be easily replaced by some unskilled worker off Craigslist, then you're a minimum wage worker, and should be thankful you have a job. There is always someone standing at the exit ramp holding a sign that will be more than willing to take your job if you're unhappy.

The point being, if you want more money, you acquire a skill through a trade or education. If you are going to be unskilled and easily replaced, then you get what the market value of that sort of job is. Minimum effort and investment in your skillset equate to minimum wage. You're paid what you're worth to the business.

Tom_PM · 08-08-2013, 11:21 AM

Agreed on the minimum wage is what minimum skills earn. It's just that as the cost of living increases the minimum wage should as well. It's still minimum. More earnings relative to expenses, more spendings. More money, less welfare.

SuckOnThis · 08-08-2013, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supz

it was a job created for college kids and retards. its not a career.

Right. McDonalds created itself for the sole purpose of giving college kids and retards jobs. I swear, how some of you are able to turn a computer on is beyond me.

Barefootsies · 08-08-2013, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuckOnThis

Right. McDonalds created itself for the sole purpose of giving college kids and retards jobs.

Right. McDonalds is a business created for the purpose of making money though fast affordable food.

It's not in the high pay for minimal skill, easily replaced, lazy workers business.

SuckOnThis · 08-08-2013, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Right. McDonalds is a business created for the purpose of making money though fast affordable food.

It's not in the high pay for minimal skill, easily replaced, lazy workers business.

Yep, every minimum wage worker is lazy and looking for a govt handout.

Would you have more respect for them if they were out there selling crack or sucking dick for a living?

What happened, did a McDonalds fry cook worker steal your woman or something?

Barefootsies · 08-08-2013, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuckOnThis

Yep, every minimum wage worker is lazy and looking for a govt handout.

I never said 'EVERY' minimum wage worker is anything beyond a minimum wage worker putting forth the minimum effort and paid accordingly according to the needs of the business and the job they are working. If you want more money, or a higher standard of living, then you need to actually WORK for it. By that I mean, investing in your education, skills, trade craft, experience, or something that makes you actually worth more to an employer.

That being said, while I appreciate your weak attempts to go off topic with your unrelated personal bullshit, it would appear you are the leader of the fry cook union.

Trend · 08-08-2013, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackmonsters

Why don't you retire 2 years after college and see how fucking bankrupt you become.

WTF!

The "Typical time"(*not average) spent in pro football is 2 years. You need 5 years or more to get a retirement check.

Nobody would be bankrupt with a retirement check.

Keep trying though.

Face it; the reason you are debating this is because you have nothing more than a high school diploma and the only way to poke at the college athletes who are better looking, more manly and praised, is to call them stupid.

You still lose though.

.

* Not using average because a 10 yr vet makes two 1 year players fit in the average of 4 yrs when that's total bullshit since 2/3 of that set only had one year.

Ha! It's clear you don't know me and that you have difficulty with facts as well as memory. But that does not surprise me in the least.

Let's revisit shall we....

1. You said and I quote .... " Almost every football player getting paid has completed a degree from a major University."

THIS IS FALSE AS STATED BY THE NFL. LESS THAN 50% HAVE DEGREES.

2. You make the astoundingly absurd statement that:

"Why don't you retire 2 years after college and see how fucking bankrupt you become."

Your logic is so flawed I'm convinced you are a teenager.

First you state that "Almost every football player getting paid has completed a degree"

Then you state that I shouldn't be shocked when they go bankrupt because they only played pro ball for 2 years .. really? LOL!

If after two years, these college educated geniuses‎ couldn't play pro ball, they could certainly get jobs. College educated, former pro athletes don't have issues getting work.

3. You make a definitive ( and ignorant ) statement that I am.. lets see... what was it :

"you have nothing more than a high school diploma and the only way to poke at the college athletes who are better looking, more manly and praised, is to call them stupid."

a. I have my masters degree.
b. I played football in college
c. I NEVER said that they are stupid. I stated a fact. "78 percent of NFL players are bankrupt or under financial stress within two years of retirement"

I have tremendous respect for college athletes. Especially those that go on to complete their degrees.

But I have to tell ya .. I am coming here less and less because it makes me feel like John Malkovich in Burn After Reading .. and it kinda makes me long for the same fate.

Barefootsies · 08-08-2013, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trend

But I have to tell ya .. I am coming here less and less because it makes me feel like John Malkovich in Burn After Reading .. and it kinda makes me long for the same fate.

TheSquealer · 08-08-2013, 12:30 PM

I think a lot of people here should just be paying double for content, design, hosting and coding. After all, you don't want to be seen as greedy and trying to turn a profit.

Barefootsies · 08-08-2013, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

I think a lot of people here should just be paying double for content, design, hosting and coding. After all, you don't want to be seen as greedy and trying to turn a profit.

It amazes me how people can be so against socialism in one thread pounding their chest about the American way, and then in the next be all about entitlements, handouts, and giving unskilled workers union pay and benefits for putting forth the minimal amount of effort in life. I am not sure on what planet people are rewarded for making poor decisions and not investing in themselves for a better standard of life.

SuckOnThis · 08-08-2013, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

I never said 'EVERY' minimum wage worker is anything beyond a minimum wage worker putting forth the minimum effort and paid accordingly according to the needs of the business and the job they are working. If you want more money, or a higher standard of living, then you need to actually WORK for it. By that I mean, investing in your education, skills, trade craft, experience, or something that makes you actually worth more to an employer.

At least a dozen times in this thread you've used the words lazy, entitlements, and govt handouts. I guess I just don't get the level of hatred towards people that are doing SOMETHING. And guess what? This industry is a magnet for lazy ass drug addicted non educated idiots that want something for nothing.

Robbie · 08-08-2013, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arock10

The reason why mcdonalds workers don't make $15 an hr is because it would hurt corporate profits.

NO!!
WHEN WILL YOU PEOPLE JUST READ SOME OF THE THINGS WRITTEN AND ANSWER TO THAT!

These people are working an entry level job with NO SKILLS. An unskilled labor job that a fucking monkey could od.
THAT IS WHY THEY DON'T MAKE MORE THAN THE MINIMUM WAGE.

Fuck! I know you're not a dumb person. So that means you are intentionally overlooking that fact. They have NO skills. This is usually their first AND temporary job.

IF they work at McDonalds for a period of time AND they DO A GOOD JOB...they have opportunity to make MORE than minimum wage because they become valuable to the company.

Goddamn! This is making my brain hurt.

Barefootsies · 08-08-2013, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuckOnThis

And guess what? This industry is a magnet for lazy ass drug addicted non educated idiots that want something for nothing.

No arguments there BROmance. GFY is flooded with them.

Barefootsies · 08-08-2013, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

IF they work at McDonalds for a period of time AND they DO A GOOD JOB...they have opportunity to make MORE than minimum wage because they become valuable to the company.

Correct. This is the 'land of opportunity' and there is plenty of them.

Sadly, they all require some level of work and investment. Whether in experience, skill, time, or education. Some people are up for the challenge and willing to sacrifice some of their precious time for a better standard of living. Other want government hand outs or expect $15.00 because they showered and showed up for work that day.

Eschaton · 08-08-2013, 01:26 PM

If McDonald's could raise prices by $0.68 and be able to afford doubling everyone's wages, they would have done this long ago without raising anyone's pay. Corporate would make more money, franchisees would make more money and shareholders would make more money.

Could it be, that the author of the article making these claims has not been informed of simple supply and demand laws? When the prices of goods increases, the demanded quantity decreases.

Past that, the idea that McDonalds employee wage boost would help the economy is a fallacy. Money in the private sector has the same net effect regardless of where it is. Economies are driven by savings, investment and production. Not consumer spending. They represent a fraction of a fraction of a percent of the workforce. Suggesting they can stimulate the economy better than one of their customers is bizarre.

$5 submissions · 08-08-2013, 01:27 PM

/sarc for all the Sheldon types

arock10 · 08-08-2013, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

NO!!
WHEN WILL YOU PEOPLE JUST READ SOME OF THE THINGS WRITTEN AND ANSWER TO THAT!

These people are working an entry level job with NO SKILLS. An unskilled labor job that a fucking monkey could od.
THAT IS WHY THEY DON'T MAKE MORE THAN THE MINIMUM WAGE.

Fuck! I know you're not a dumb person. So that means you are intentionally overlooking that fact. They have NO skills. This is usually their first AND temporary job.

IF they work at McDonalds for a period of time AND they DO A GOOD JOB...they have opportunity to make MORE than minimum wage because they become valuable to the company.

Goddamn! This is making my brain hurt.

Has anyone been to a walmart or a mcdonalds lately? Everyone working there isn't 16 years old...

The minimum wage when taking into account inflation has actually declined since the 1970s. I'd post more graphs illustrating this but I've already posted enough (5-6 I believe).

Why not just do away with child labor laws. Or the minimum wage completely. Or just bring back slavery, at least then you get free room and board.

The government is here to regulate and private enterprise is here to optimize profits. Unfortunately due to rulings like citizens united, private companies just dictate whatever the fuck they want which isn't in your average person's best interest. Meanwhile republicans keep passing voter ID laws disenfranchising groups of poorer voters... government just is getting hilarious but private corporations aren't the answer.

arock10 · 08-08-2013, 03:09 PM

Here are some more figures...

http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2013/04...-rude-service/

"The fast-food giant pays its crew members an average wage of $7.63 an hour -- or $16,000 a year for working 40 hours a week for a year, according to the employer review site Glassdoor.com. That's about on par with other fast food outlets. But fast food service is among the lowest paid, and fastest growing, jobs in the country. While flipping burgers used to be a part-time pocket-change job for teens, it's become a major employer of working families in the U.S. The Bureau of Labor Statistics says that two thirds of fast food workers are female; their median age is 32 years old."

This is not people's first job, this is a job people are attempting to survive and supports families. Plenty of proud people that refuse to sit at home and just take a check so they work hard in fast food.

But feel free to keep with the narrative the Koch brothers keep feeding you that all fast food workers are young and lazy.

Robbie · 08-08-2013, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arock10

Has anyone been to a walmart or a mcdonalds lately? Everyone working there isn't 16 years old...r.

Nobody was talking about Walmart. And nobody was talking about "16 years old".

McDonalds I go to all the time. Just was there this morning to grab a hotcakes and sausage.

Very young girl took my money. Very young man gave me my order. Standing a few feet behind that young man was a guy who looked to be in his 30's wearing a tie. I'm going to guess he is a manager and makes MORE than minimum wage.

Furthermore...it doesn't matter if the guy handing me my food was 50. Bottom line is it's UNSKILLED labor. What part of that can't you understand?

You don't pay people more money than what the job is worth. If they are worth a fuck, they will kick ass and go a great job and rise up by being promoted.

Just like the guy in the tie did at McDonalds.

You aren't thinking straight about this.

EDIT: And your comments about the Koch brothers have absolutely nothing to do with unskilled labor making low wages. That has been the case since long before the Koch brothers were even born.
It's called "REALITY". Get used to it. Or...change our society into one that just hands people money no matter what their skills are or the relative value of the job being done

Barry-xlovecam · 08-08-2013, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arock10

Here are some more figures...

"The fast-food giant pays its crew members an average wage of $7.63 an hour -- or $16,000 a year for working 40 hours a week for a year, a...

Around here they are paying $9 an hour. It's an entry level job or a retired person returning to work to supplement their social security -- that is sad in itself -- if they are there to have something useful to do all kudos to them.

How many 35 year old workers with an AA or BA degree and work experience do you find working as a line cook at a crap (I mean fast) food joint 40hrs a week?

Maybe with the current lack of jobs they trained for more that I think but these examples few and are the exception to the rule, or their fast food employment is meant to be temporary.

If you want to force these type of employers to provide decent healthcare benefits to their workers I'm all for that. Their workers have the same basic rights as people as we all do.

arock10 · 08-08-2013, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Nobody was talking about Walmart. And nobody was talking about "16 years old".

McDonalds I go to all the time. Just was there this morning to grab a hotcakes and sausage.

Very young girl took my money. Very young man gave me my order. Standing a few feet behind that young man was a guy who looked to be in his 30's wearing a tie. I'm going to guess he is a manager and makes MORE than minimum wage.

Furthermore...it doesn't matter if the guy handing me my food was 50. Bottom line is it's UNSKILLED labor. What part of that can't you understand?

You don't pay people more money than what the job is worth. If they are worth a fuck, they will kick ass and go a great job and rise up by being promoted.

Just like the guy in the tie did at McDonalds.

You aren't thinking straight about this.

EDIT: And your comments about the Koch brothers have absolutely nothing to do with unskilled labor making low wages. That has been the case since long before the Koch brothers were even born.
It's called "REALITY". Get used to it. Or...change our society into one that just hands people money no matter what their skills are or the relative value of the job being done

Median age is 32 years old for mcdonalds. The minimum wage has been declining since the 1970s.

According to glassdoor.com (http://www.glassdoor.com/Hourly-Pay/..._D_KO11,24.htm), your guy with the tie is making an average of $9.67 an hour as a shift manager. So bust your ass and you can take home an average of $19k a year.

Bust your ass and make under $20k a year lol.

Not everyone has it easy like us sitting around playing on the internet.

And I know this has been around a lot longer then the Koch brothers, but they and other like minded people have been pumping hundreds of millions into the media (really anywhere) to point fingers at poor people who are just trying to survive.

I just bring up the Koch brothers because this is what they are doing and you can see how badly they are suffering from the current recession by yet another graph

08-07-2013, 03:49 PM	#201
Barry-xlovecam It's 42 Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Global Posts: 18,083	Don't buy any fast food then -- Boycott! Fast food is poisoning America -- you will live longer without it anyway

08-08-2013, 08:04 AM	#210
pornguy Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Homeless Posts: 62,912	No I dont agree that raising them that much would help. The people doing the work will still be lazy. If they want more make them earn more. Raise the min up by 40cents per hour and if they want more than that give them commission. __________________ PornGuy skype me pornguy_epic AmateurDough The Hottes Shemales online! TChicks.com \| Angeles Cid \| Mariana Cordoba \| MAILERS WELCOME!

08-08-2013, 08:28 AM	#211
Tom_PM Porn Meister Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 16,443	I worked for Radio Shack as well for a decade during the 90's and was manager after a couple of years, but I made that happen without managers help mostly. I got tired of literally babysitting one managers kid on his day off (while working alone) so moved to the biggest store in the district. The day that manager told me to follow a guy around the store "because he's a 'n-word'" I left his store and moved to where I still am because this is where the largest district office is for this region. Got my own store and worked at several even winning two 50% sales gain awards back to back when I realized something. The ct-350 cell phones were discontinued down to zero dollars so I got the entire country to send me all their good stock, "sold" them for 1 penny provided that the people signed up with the carrier. I literally had a line going out the store that summer for almost two solid months in a row, it was kick ass business with HUGE profits (and bonuses). Nobody was doing that back then in the 90's; giving away free phones with contract. I got tired of that job when we got a thankless prick for a district manager who loved the "bro's" club more than people in adult do. Just a gossip lover who spent his days on the phone bullshitting. I was all about working hard and serving the customer, not being one of the cool kids on the block and wearing a fancy watch. Still am. When I started making more money in adult than I did at my job, I took a demotion and finally quit to start doing this full time in late 1999. Before that it was years at a commercial photo lab preceeded by years in manufacturing and quality control of military and commercial circuit boards. Some people are going to just work hard enough not to get fired no matter what the wage is, and some are going to work hard because that's what they're supposed to do internally. When I started working, minimum wage was 2.75 or so per hour and if you suggested it might be $5 the same exact people would be telling you how society would collapse just like today. The actual number isn't important it's the mindset. It's not just "OMG that's too much for me to pay!" It's long term and widespread ripple effect. __________________ 43-922-863 Shut up and play your guitar.

08-08-2013, 10:33 AM	#219
1215 Boner Party Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 2,376	minimum skills needed. minimum wage earned. besides that, fast food, as tasty as it might be, destroys your body. i'd rather not pay them any more for making me fat!!! i can get fat for free! __________________ Best Hosting

08-08-2013, 10:50 AM	#225
TheSquealer BANNED Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: In Your Head Posts: 25,083	There is a seafood processing plant in Bellingham Washington. Seafood plants employ a lot of cheap labor that require no skills or education. My friends family owned this plant (and a few more). At the time, the business was valued at about $50,000,000.00. It was a decent sized operation. Boats bring in fish on ice. Flounder, sole, rockfish etc. When they hit the dock, guys go into the fish holds and shovel them into brailers where they are then put on ice until processed (fillets etc) Growing up in Alaska, this sort of work was basically 7.00 an hour work. Zero skills, zero talent required. In fact, most couldn't even speak English and prayed for overtime. Basically, they didn't even want to work if they couldn't work 18hr days - because most Mexicans, unlike lazy Americans understand the value of hard work and pride themselves on working hard. I was stunned to learn my friends company though was paying them $15.00 an hour. PLUS full medical and dental, paid vacations and so on. These sorts of costs, radically change the economics and viability of the business. Guess what? These uneducated, unskilled morons were unionized. That means that in addition to getting many times more than anyone else in history paid for this work, they were also never satisfied. They, in their minds, were always being exploited and taken advantage of. Net result... the company eventually had to scale back operations at that plant and fire most of them. This is exactly where the conversation where the uneducated, unskilled and to put it politely "unsophisticated" lowest common denominator of society determines they are entitled to more and more and more, irregardless of the economics of the business leads. And when business is bad... how much money and benefits do they give back? Zero. __________________ . Yes, fewer illegal immigrants working equates to more job opportunities for American citizens. Rochard

08-07-2013, 04:18 PM	#202
BFT3K Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Narnia Posts: 10,764	Listen, I know exactly what it's like to work hard. I spent 32 years busting my hump at a chicken assembly plant in Mexico City. I started at the bottom of the totem pole, just like everyone else did back then. For the first 2 years I was kicked in the balls by the townfolk, every day, until I finally earned their respect! Only then was I allowed to even TOUCH the chicken parts. Two years attaching legs, four grueling years attaching the wings... I was determined to work my ass off and get to the top! Then 30 years later all of my labor and devotion paid off, and it finally happened - I was a beaker! No more slimy parts for me, now I just take the chicken, slap on a beak, and cash my check! So don't tell me about hard work. I put in my time young fella!

08-08-2013, 10:47 AM	#224
SuckOnThis So Fucking Banned Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: In my head Posts: 6,844	So fast food workers wanting a raise is now considered an entitlement program? Where the fuck do you people come up with this bullshit?

08-08-2013, 11:21 AM	#231
Tom_PM Porn Meister Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 16,443	Agreed on the minimum wage is what minimum skills earn. It's just that as the cost of living increases the minimum wage should as well. It's still minimum. More earnings relative to expenses, more spendings. More money, less welfare. __________________ 43-922-863 Shut up and play your guitar.

08-08-2013, 12:30 PM	#238
TheSquealer BANNED Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: In Your Head Posts: 25,083	I think a lot of people here should just be paying double for content, design, hosting and coding. After all, you don't want to be seen as greedy and trying to turn a profit. __________________ . Yes, fewer illegal immigrants working equates to more job opportunities for American citizens. Rochard

08-08-2013, 01:26 PM	#244
Eschaton Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 109	If McDonald's could raise prices by $0.68 and be able to afford doubling everyone's wages, they would have done this long ago without raising anyone's pay. Corporate would make more money, franchisees would make more money and shareholders would make more money. Could it be, that the author of the article making these claims has not been informed of simple supply and demand laws? When the prices of goods increases, the demanded quantity decreases. Past that, the idea that McDonalds employee wage boost would help the economy is a fallacy. Money in the private sector has the same net effect regardless of where it is. Economies are driven by savings, investment and production. Not consumer spending. They represent a fraction of a fraction of a percent of the workforce. Suggesting they can stimulate the economy better than one of their customers is bizarre.

08-08-2013, 01:27 PM	#245
$5 submissions I help you SUCCEED Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The Pearl of the Orient Seas Posts: 32,195	/sarc for all the Sheldon types __________________ Need a NON-ADULT income stream? We build your YOUTUBE CHANNEL for only $20 per video! For Hire: $3/hour or $400 per month Marketing Specialist Virtual Assistants

08-08-2013, 03:09 PM	#247
arock10 Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,218	Here are some more figures... http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2013/04...-rude-service/ "The fast-food giant pays its crew members an average wage of $7.63 an hour -- or $16,000 a year for working 40 hours a week for a year, according to the employer review site Glassdoor.com. That's about on par with other fast food outlets. But fast food service is among the lowest paid, and fastest growing, jobs in the country. While flipping burgers used to be a part-time pocket-change job for teens, it's become a major employer of working families in the U.S. The Bureau of Labor Statistics says that two thirds of fast food workers are female; their median age is 32 years old." This is not people's first job, this is a job people are attempting to survive and supports families. Plenty of proud people that refuse to sit at home and just take a check so they work hard in fast food. But feel free to keep with the narrative the Koch brothers keep feeding you that all fast food workers are young and lazy. __________________ Sup