JockoHomo

That is where they cooked the first batch of meth in the camper and that is where he buried the money...same spot.

Relentless

'Walt' died in the episode where he was laughing in the crawl space and became 'Heisenberg.' I think 'Heisenberg' died last night when they slow panned his face as Hank got killed. Now what is left is much much worse. He isn't being smart or calculating, isn't being compassionate or merciful. Now it's primal - vengeance, destruction, spite, hate.

When 'Ozymandias' is done seeking vengence there will be nothing left of his enemies... and at this point that's pretty much everyone.

dyna mo

thoughts on the heisenberg telephone speech to skyler?

bhutocracy

Bleh. It's falling apart. Top 3 stupid things from last night:

Skylar takes Marie's word instantly that Walt is in custody, despite, y'know, this being a person she has gone to great lengths to blackmail in a really sneaky way. But no, let's just immediately believe her for no reason. Fuck Marie could have pulled this 4 episodes ago and the series would have been over. Didn't even so much as ask to check for a wire, for ANY kind of proof, to speak to someone on the phone etc etc. Walt hasn't discussed with her any ways Hank would try and trap them? BAD WRITING.

Walt can't get his family into the car and doesn't really try except in the sure-to-backfire way. Even though it would be INSANELY EASY to say "A murderous nazi meth gang killed everyone and is after us, they know where we live, RUN" Turn fear to advantage when it's obvious it looks like you've just been digging your own grave.

Walt Jr, witnesses his mother's unprovoked attack on his father who is only showing signs of concern for them and INSTANTLY flips and lies to the police in a very calculated way.. not "help my parents are stabbing each other with a knife" or ANY other variation on this theme that is just as bad and would get the police just as quickly. His mom who he just been angry at all afternoon for a reason that could have been totally avoided with a single brain cell on Skylar's behalf just attacked his cancer-dad. And HOW does it even get to that point? "Hey Skylar, YOU killed Hank, you expressly told me to take care of Jesse even though I didn't want to, after I called a hit squad on him like you wanted me to, Hank turned up with him and they killed everyone and stole most of our money even though I BEGGED for his life" "PS now they're after us get in the car" "PS Walt Jr, your mom told me to murder someone and now she's attacking me with a knife and it's not to cut out my cancer".

Most of the episode just felt like the writers moving the chess pieces around in an obvious way. If the characters needed to do this they should have added another episode and stuffed in whatever exposition and story required to get them there in a semi-believable way. It's one of my all time favorite shows and it's falling apart right when it should be peaking. If Skylar is going to blab her guts out, at least give her the intelligence and steely reserve initially that she has shown lately, ask her to check for bugs.. *have Hank send Marie a pic of Walt in handcuffs from the cellphone he just used that she then shows Skylar* fuck that would have easily and instantly made it believable. Instead it's fucking WEAK. Have Walt Jr call the cops without taking sides, or, if he needs to side with his mother, give him more time and a better excuse. This "everything is crazy so everyone is stupid and everything can happen" excuse is lame.

Also stupid was telling the Nazi's about the money, there is no way in that situation a group of murderous thugs don't just take it. It's basically just a writer's device to show Walk isn't Heisenberg anymore.. Even though, y'know.. Hank punched him, Walt threatened him and both Hank and the Nazis are clear and present threats to his family. I think Walt telling Jesse about his girlfriend was a bit superfluous but I can see why he might have. Of course he should have killed Jesse about 3 seasons ago because he has been nothing but a liability. It's a really silly blind spot given the danger he posed and created for his family.

dyna mo

damn, where were y'all last week? i could have used some backup on my critque!!

Zuzana Designs

Awesome show! By the looks of that Walt will die.

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bronco67

Either you're the lone genius in TV watching world, or you're just really wrong.

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dyna mo

you've got mad photochopin skillz!


that's crazy!!!

bronco67

Something for the Mike fans...

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dyna mo

can someone else start next week's breaking bad thread ........so the tags, well, the tags are juicy-fied.

Relentless

Just as the Heisenberg identity was never able to fully eradicate 'Walt' and he still occasionally reverted to doing things Walt would have done, that call is an example of 'Walt' and 'Heisenberg' bubbling up to the surface. Walt trying to give Skyler an 'out' by accepting all blame, Heisenberg trying to outsmart everyone listening in... and Ozymandias tells Skyler what he really thinks of her. I see Walt/Heisenberg/Ozy almost like a multi-personality disorder brought on by extreme stress and chemotherapy.

I also love the fact that the writers were able to essentially lift text right off of forums where people posted hateful rants about Skyler and put those views into Walt's mouth. It was the best and most subtle way to condemn the audience troll viewpoint that wives should all just shut up and follow along.

I do think the episode would have been stronger if Walt Jr. was accidentally seriously hurt during the knife fight. Not killed necessarily, maybe blinded by his parents' blade. That would have brought home a lot of the 'family' themes his character is based on.

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bronco67

Good points. I don't know if it's been addressed in public talk about the show that these "Skylar haters" are misogynistic at best.

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Relentless

That's the thing... Vince Gilligan and the writers never discussed any of it online or other media (that I know of), instead they rolled it all up and let Walt say it to her as part of the episode in a way that embeds those comments and shows them for what they really are... it was Brilliant.

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brassmonkey

yet not one fucking tweeker opposite of the real deal

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dyna mo

anybody else think there is some stephen king horror thing happening with the family and the house?

dyna mo

hah, i was wondering about that for this last season, especially during the star trek scene a few episodes ago, it would have been much better if they were tweaking out fo their gourds when dude went off on the screenplay idea but they just had them stoned.

i figured it was to start to paint jesse in a better light but they've since had him back on the meth.

bhutocracy

I'm just going to have to go ahead and assume lone genius unless you want to point out any specific issues with what I've said, although really I imagine it will amount to nothing more than special pleading. This is a guy that can think 3 moves ahead to set up Rube-Goldberg machines with steps that include poisoning children. I'll accept some occasional dumb stuff. Sure ok, take Jesse's word that he's burning your money, I can see that, there is a photo.. I'll gulp down the screaming thoughts in the back of my head yelling at Walt to confirm with Jesse where he found the cash, to shut up on the phone with the over-confession.. to y'know.. actually look for rising smoke at the site.. to not actually frigging stop at the site of the money... To have buried all his eggs in one basket.. To not put it together that Jesse couldn't do this by himself.. How would Jesse know he used a van?????.. That Huell is missing.. I'll forgive that because they actually worked at creating something semi-believable in the photo and the potential van tracking.. and keeping the pressure on with potential money burning so maybe, maybe he doesn't stop for 3 seconds to think about it.. It's just enough to suspend disbelief.

What I won't countenance is continued incompetence without similar rational justification. Why in fuck tell them he's got $80M buried there? Why couldn't he just say he'll give them $40M if they let Hank live? No further info necessary... Has far, far less risk both to his money (which is shown he cares the most about) his own life as $80M and a pack of murderous thugs pretty much removes the need for you to be alive and retains some level of authority and upper hand... then add in the inability to talk down his family when all he does is manipulate.. add in Skylar's instant capitulation with no evidence and instant complete trust in the person who tried to steal her baby, Walt Jr's instant flip on his dad after seeing the exact opposite of what he said.. The only semi-logical thing all episode was the call home to absolve Skylar... (The person who ordered Jesse dead one minute but instantly attacks the person who followed her advice to protect the family.. an attack that might not have happened if Walt pointed this out.. but once again it's all forced to get the pieces going in a certain direction).

I still enjoyed the episode, but mainly because of all the seasons leading up to it allowed me to try and excuse some final missteps.. (Like Hank lasting more than two seconds in a wall of lead with not much more than a scratch, fuck just end the episode on the first trigger being pulled and have a quarter of the amount of shooting when you come back the next week.. or have them only using .22's or something lol.). However if all the other episodes in all the other seasons were written like this with people making stupid illogical decisions multiple times each episode it wouldn't be one of my favorite shows. If I wanted people doing dumb illogical stuff I'll yell at the suspect confessing at the end of each episode of Law and Order.

AmeliaG

I agree with you completely. I am shocked that such a previously well-written character-driven show has gone off the rails to suckage so hard.

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AmeliaG

Hank talked big in the office, but spent that whole Mexico scenario twitching in panic. I don't recall all the details of the shootout with Tuco etc., but I kind of think the other people were already injured and not as well-armed.

I find it highly unlikely that one conversation would completely change how Flynn approached everything in his life.

I agree with you on this, but Skyler has always been on the defensive against Marie's BS. There is no way that character would totally cave in on Marie's say-so, with no proof of her BS story.

Unless the whole point is that folks who sell digital representations of sexuality think product set is the thing which decides genius (and only product sets beloved by all are okay), then, no, I think Walt has done pretty much exclusively very smart things.
His cut of what?

Taking a character which has been basically a prop until now and having her speak damning words is just cheap writing.

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kane

I'm just curious. For those who are tearing this episode apart, what else do you watch? If you consider this episode crap, can you even turn on your TV without your head exploding?

Shap

I agree

dyna mo

y'all didnt nitpick the obvious big plot hole

nazis get $70 mil so the next thing they do is start cooking again.

and the super biggie: that picture of andrea and brock pinkman looks at in the nazi meth kitchen.


either way, every episode can be dissected and picked apart. i had to stop myself from donig that when i first started watching a few years ago.

Jel

I usually like the show OP on mouseover, but did it yesterday not realising I'd see 'hank and gomez dead' as soon as I did lol :D

I liked the parts where walt lost it mentally and told jesse he watched anna die, then called skylar a dumb bitch on the phone

bhutocracy

A. I don't really turn on my TV unless I have acquired something specifically to watch and B. It's the context. I wouldn't be tearing it apart if it didn't stand in stark relief with the rest of the series. It's coming to expect a high bar which then isn't met. Like going to your favorite resturant expecting confit duck in a sticky cherry sauce with a smear of parsnip and thyme puree and side of duck baklava and being served up a lukewarm grilled sandwich. If all they ever did was serve grilled sandwiches I wouldn't complain that much, I probably wouldn't ever go there in the first place, but I wouldn't be expecting much more if I did. BB is/was easily a top 5 TV show of all time, up with the usual suspects like The Wire , Sopranos, Mad Men etc etc. But these last episodes are threatening that status with shitty writing. Currently I'm watching Boardwalk Empire and BB, Treme will start soon and that should continue to be decent. In a lower tier of shows that I keep up with but don't rate highly - Dexter, Trueblood, Walking Dead and Homeland. However with those shows I know I'm just getting a grilled sandwich.. and with Trueblood it's basically a hollow brain dead sandwich. I don't expect that much from them so I'm not disappointed. Walking Dead in particular is cursed with the kind of bad writing I'm talking about. Characters that do one thing one episode and do a complete irrational U turn the next.. Where zombies teleport right behind people, where a bad guy can chase someone and magically find them like they are a homing needle in a haystack, where one guy can kill 30 zombies but another guy can't fight off 1, where people randomly decide not to kill people they really, really should. It took them 2 entire seasons of fighting zombies with guns that drew in more zombies before they realised maybe, just maybe silencers were a good idea. I literally thanked the TV screen the first scene they used one and said a silent thank you to the writer for having half a brain. I probably would have given up after season two if the writing didn't IMMEDIATELY get better in season 3 after some writers were laid off and new smarter people came on. It's still pretty lame but watchable.
Anyways because BB has proven to be so epically great in the past, when it is just average with the kind of writing you expect in far shittier shows it REALLY STANDS OUT.. like a turd in caviar. Having your suspension of disbelief splattered all over the floor from bad writing really does ruin it.. I don't want to be thinking about the writers.. I want to be engrossed in the characters, which means they have to behave in vaguely realistic ways. You'll notice I never said the characters SHOULDN'T be on the arcs they're on, just that they needed better writing and/or more time to make these actions believable and not seemingly entirely arbitrary. I'm more like a tiger mom than a hater. I only want the best out of the show and don't feel I need to uncritically praise it no matter what just because it's generally better than whatever other stupid shit is on TV.

Jel

You know it. Condemning a fictional entertainment show for not being realistic - wtf, take a fucking break lol

mineistaken

Ok, but is that symbolic fact so significant that scene from way back was needed?

mineistaken

Why wouldn't they cook? They have contracts with buyers and all. Criminals rarely retire, especially gangs as a whole. Even after big score.

I thought that picture was to remind Jesse that they might get hurt if he won't cooperate cooking meth.

boziffous

Maybe it's too early, but I'm not following you on this one. What is the plot hole with this?

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bronco67

You should stop giving opinions on this show. They're pretty uninformed, and you don't even seem like you pay attention to what's going on, or have picked up any idea of what each character is about.

Maybe try Survivor or something.

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dyna mo

$70 million dollars in cash and it's get back to work cooking shitty meth time? for a bunch of knucklehead nazis. not really. look to any mob movie/heist/caper film for what the bad guys do when they get a shitton of cash money dropped in their laps.


how did the nazis get the photo and how did they know it's a trigger point for pinkman?

eh.



.

Shap

If we are going to dissect the episode the biggest gap imo is how jesse hid under the car. Isn't that the first place you'd look?

dyna mo

crap, we're going to rip the show to shreds as it comes to an end!

dyna mo

do peeps really think this 1 episode was the worst episode of all?

did y'all get miffed when skyler sang happy birfday mr president?

i mean come on!- this scene epitomizes the entire episode! it's rancid man.

bronco67

There's going to be a bunch of people tearing apart the ending, thinking they're smarter than Vince Gilligan. Already most of the harsher criticisms are usually because of a complete mis-comprehension of where characters have been, and where their arcs are taking them.

I'll be good with whatever he does and accept it for what it is. I did that for Lost, The Shield, The Sopranos, whatever.

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Jel

didn't they already say that meth was worth $150m a year? If my memory doesn't suck on that one, $70m is not that much compared to say, another 10 years, even if it stays at $150m a year. I get what your saying about other heist/caper movies etc etc, but those aren't ongoing earnings they can acquire. As for mob movies - the mob never stop once they have 'enough' cash

photo - yep, though can be 'explained away' with the 'history' Todd spoke of between him and Jesse. They cooked together etc, and though it is obviously a plot hole afaik, not unfeasable Jesse woulda let slip about those 2 people - not exactly reknowned for his ability to stfu

Jel

haha, I literally cringe and have to look away making the lalalalalala sound whenever that song is sung by anyone, anytime

dyna mo

i wonder if that's just a part of a show concluding? i think it's realistic to say that many of us are attached in some way(s) to the show, if not just as something to do on a sunday evening maybe even a bit more. so it's not oout of the question to grapple with that on some level........

i know when i was re-watching the previous seasons gearing up for this final 8, i decided then just to not expect anything, however they want it to go out, coolio.

but i do think it's fun and ok to critque the show, and at a high level for tele. the show set the bar, not us, so it's fair game imo. and a fair critique is balanced.

and speaking of fair, it doesn't seem to me that this last episode is any worse or better than any of the, what, 50-ish episodes prior. each and every one of them has a writing or dialogue issue imo.

dyna mo

very well could be so. maybe uncle jack has bigger $$$ goals. thinking about that picture, did it come from when ww called the hit on pinkman? the nazis were in that car outside andrea's if i recall now,,,,,,,,,,,they prolly had the picture then...

derp! gotta talk this show out sometimes!! a lot of times really.

bronco67

I think its pretty hard to be super-critical of this show. They seem to do their homework, and I can't think of too many missteps that have made me wish they had done something different. It's almost the perfect TV show, after The Wire.

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dyna mo

one thing about this latest episode though, if it does fall flat for some, it's not because the writers were trying to be clever. as a previous poster commented, the arc of character dev is believable, the events were inevitable. the show rang true.

scuba steve

random but do you think the nazi group is going to carry on the meth production? like this is the fall of an empire, and a new one picking up the void? walt moves on with his life, jessie gets wacked, skyler killed by marie, and the whole heisenberg time period is concluded, and now a new group is in town. it's not as good as the old stuff, but time moves on

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dyna mo

up till a few minuites ago i was figuring them for the sort of crew that would go on a crazy ass $70 million spending spree but it seems like they are carrying on the cook.

i guess if uncle jack can give awy $11m with a wave of the hand, they have bigger $$$ goals.

boziffous

Yeah, I was wondering why that wouldn't make sense to you. You had me thinking I was missing something from that scene.

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Choopa_Pardo

You all seem a little quick to judge. Watch the two final episodes and then cast your votes.

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dyna mo

the show often assumes things that happen off screen. along those lines, i was a bit surprised that they chose to tell walt jr offscreen about his dad.

combined with the intentional ambiguity of the entire show, from moral ambiguity to characters acting out of character by breaking bad or bad luck, etc. not to mention ambigous ending like the lily of the valley ending.

part of the fun of this show for me is playing around with that and attempting to sort it out, there's a lot left out, a lot of flashbacks and a lot of portending, imo, all intentional and impossible to guess the outcome.

take ww's handling of holly in this last episode, are we to feel sympathetic for walt since he was so caring for the baby he just kidnapped? ambigous is fun tele.

scuba steve

think he just had a change of heart, kind of the jekyll and hyde syndrome he's had recently. being a good person vs the ego centric power hungry control freak

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Sarah_Jayne

You have to love a show where those that think the quality has slipped will still be able to write virtual dissertations on episodes right up until the end. I'm not sure which show was that last to get such attention. Perhaps Lost but it wasn't anywhere near as strong as this point.

adendreams

I loved the episode but agree there was so much out of character shit - Its like they hired new writers who hadn't even watched the previous seasons.

oh and jesse looked fat old and balding in the first flashback scene...bad move

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dyna mo

it's a jekyll & hyde at once! the phone call- dang! talk about ambigous, we could dissect the shit outta just that scene right? and we'd all prolly be right in some way.

that's an amazing component of the show oveall too, imo. they really do play both sides well, good v evil. that's what made the barrel rolling scene so compelling for me.

adendreams

When Skylar gets confronted by her sister - and with only heresay, no evidence that it isnt a trick - she breaks down and tells Flynn everything - that was a writers train wreck...it was like slow motion... i was just thinking this cant be real - can a writer fuck up that bad and the scene makes final cut??? unreal error for such a great show.

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