Bitcoin are intrinsically worthless according to economist Peter Schiff - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

adendreams · 11-24-2013, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by - Jesus Christ -

"Television declared worthless by radio salesman."

DWB · 11-24-2013, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adendreams

DWB you are displaying a grade schoolers inability to grasp that the Gold Mr. Shiff is selling is only intended as an investment vehicle - a way to preserve and enhance your wealth.

The only way a Gold Investments Seller can convince someone to put their hard earned wealth into gold is with scare tactics that dollars, stocks, bonds and other investment vehicles are going to fail...everyone knows this..or so I thought.

You are assuming everyone in the world is buying gold out of fear due to guys like Schiff and Beck. And as usual, you are wrong. But I'll let all the central banks and nations know they are wasting their time with this useless metal. I'm sure they will be grateful. A pornographer saves the day once again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by adendreams

This conversation is apparently far beyond your level of comprehension, either that or you didn't take the time to read any of it - either way you are embarrassing yourself talking about jewelry as having any relevance whatsoever to the discussion.

Jewelry?

Is that what you think is happening in Asia? As I said before, your comments prove you've never been anywhere. A total fraud as I expected. Jewelry. Best laugh I've had all day, thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by adendreams

I suggest you go blow another load in a ladyboy

I will, thank you. Right after you start another VDbucks backfire thread where you cry about your missing fake Filipino "friend" that you care so much about.

adendreams · 11-24-2013, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMaxwell

I think you're right if you're recommending against buying gold. Dollars just do not buy much gold anymore. The price of gold is the price of gold. What matters if you're in the states is the value of the dollar against the gold. No matter what you say- gold and silver are value. Period. They just are. They always have been. It's likely that they always will be. It's that simple. Would I go and burn all of my dollars buying gold? No. Silver and other metals- maybe.

Yes but you're missing my point entirely - it's about buying gold as compared to other investment products. If you invested your wad a few months ago in gold - you would have lost 25 percent of your wealth. There is nothing propping up gold except lack of confidence in the stocks, bonds, and commodities markets. (Fear)

Do I predict gold will drop to 300 bucks anytime soon? No. Could it? Yes

Gold has nothing backing it - the discussion here is about intrinsic value - and gold has almost none...if we had an amazing economy for the next 10 years - gold would continue to drop drastically..probably below 500 an ounce.

So when you have something that is ONLY based on the economy tanking - then you get assholes like Shiff and Glenn Beck who will do and say anything to tank the economy to make a profit.

As an optimist I don't like gold for those reasons.

Whats hilarious about Shiff's comparing Bitcoin to Tulip mania is that this gold bubble is almost the same thing: For proof just look at a 30 year graph

from the 80's till about 2005 gold hovered around $400 an ounce - thats where it should be. This bubble (thats now popping) is exactly the same phenomenon as the Tulip.

420 · 11-24-2013, 05:46 PM

He says your fiat money is infinite and worthless and the only use for dollars is paying taxes. Reminds me of this guy:

Who would buy bitcoins now to hold forever? The volatility is the whole point of trading them.

adendreams · 11-24-2013, 05:49 PM

http://www.usagold.com/reference/prices/2002.html

You really want to believe a guy who says BUY GOLD! hahaha yea right for $1300 an ounce...11 years ago it was $270 and could go right back there

money biz · 11-24-2013, 05:52 PM

great vid but bitcoin does have value its anonymous currency.

DWB · 11-24-2013, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adendreams

Yes but you're missing my point entirely - it's about buying gold as compared to other investment products. If you invested your wad a few months ago in gold - you would have lost 25 percent of your wealth. There is nothing propping up gold except lack of confidence in the stocks, bonds, and commodities markets. (Fear)

Gold has nothing backing it - the discussion here is about intrinsic value - and gold has almost none...if we had an amazing economy for the next 10 years - gold would continue to drop drastically..probably below 500 an ounce.

As an optimist I don't like gold for those reasons.

Yet nations and banks own the bulk of it, and continue to buy it at any price.

Gold has value because the world decided a long time ago that it has value. They could have decided grey rocks had value, but they didn't. So that is what backs gold, the belief of the entire world that it has value. So long as that belief exists, gold lives. That's all there is to it.

If you have an amazing economy for the next 10 years, gold still lives. If you all end up in a soup line, gold still lives. The price goes up and down, but it will still have value no matter what the price is. Gold (or other precious metals) will never go to $0 because it has value. It doesn't matter who is selling it, or where it is being sold, it always has been and always will be exactly what it is, gold. And just about everyone in the planet agrees that it is worth something. Saying "gold has nothing backing it" is ridiculous. It is backed by the citizens and governments of planet Earth.

adendreams · 11-24-2013, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by money biz

great vid but bitcoin does have value its anonymous currency.

Yes this is a good point. The definition of the word "Intrinsic" is very fluid and like many other words in the English language it must necessarily adapt to changing conditions - as in the invention and worldwide (nearly) adoption of the World Wide Web.

The concept of intrinsic value has been characterized above in terms of the value that something has “in itself,” or “for its own sake,” or “as such,” or “in its own right.” The custom has been not to distinguish between the meanings of these terms, but we will see that there is reason to think that there may in fact be more than one concept at issue here. For the moment, though, let us ignore this complication and focus on what it means to say that something is valuable for its own sake as opposed to being valuable for the sake of something else to which it is related in some way.
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/va...sic-extrinsic/

So Bitcoin has value based on three main criteria:

1. It takes work (resources) to acquire.
2. It is finite in supply.
3. It can be transferred anonymously, with no oversight or taxation from any Government or agency.

Of course if the internet went down globally it would lose it's value but for the sake of discussion we assume the net stays alive.

To those holding the currency that have the desire to trade wealth anonymously, as long as there is someone out there with the desire to trade in the currency, there is value in that...Intrinsic no longer matters in this new paradigm. You can't send gold to someone instantly and for free, so it changes the actual definition of value. To many, digital currency may become more useful - thus valuable- than gold.

Of course in any discussions of a paradigm this new we are projecting ideas that may take decades to be fully realized. Digital Currency is so new as to be considered in it's infancy. Bitcoin will very likely fail and be replaced by other more stable, less problematic, Digital Currencies.

JFK · 11-24-2013, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWB

Peter Schiff, a financial broker and author with a net worth of $70 million vs a random part time internet pornographer who calls Schiff a clown, liar, failure, and a dinosaur.

GFY never disappoints.

L-Pink · 11-24-2013, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adendreams

3. It can be transferred anonymously, with no oversight or taxation from any Government or agency.

Profit is taxed.

adendreams · 11-24-2013, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L-Pink

Profit is taxed.

Right - you sell your Bitcoins at a profit then you claim the profit and pay taxes on the income. (unless you live in a nation with no income tax) Thats not the context with which I was referring to. Bitcoin is used as a trading vehicle as well as an investment vehicle - you don't get taxed (fees) when trading with it - like you would if you needed to send money though the banking system, pay pal, etc.

You can trade gold with another individual with no fees, but you would expend resources (time, locomotion, labor) to do so.

With Digital Currencies there is the negligible costs of internet access and electricity but that's infinitesimally small compared to gold and other trading vehicles. Thus value gained by using them.

MrMaxwell · 11-24-2013, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adendreams

Yes but you're missing my point entirely - it's about buying gold as compared to other investment products. If you invested your wad a few months ago in gold - you would have lost 25 percent of your wealth. There is nothing propping up gold except lack of confidence in the stocks, bonds, and commodities markets. (Fear)

Do I predict gold will drop to 300 bucks anytime soon? No. Could it? Yes

Gold has nothing backing it - the discussion here is about intrinsic value - and gold has almost none...if we had an amazing economy for the next 10 years - gold would continue to drop drastically..probably below 500 an ounce.

So when you have something that is ONLY based on the economy tanking - then you get assholes like Shiff and Glenn Beck who will do and say anything to tank the economy to make a profit.

As an optimist I don't like gold for those reasons.

Whats hilarious about Shiff's comparing Bitcoin to Tulip mania is that this gold bubble is almost the same thing: For proof just look at a 30 year graph

from the 80's till about 2005 gold hovered around $400 an ounce - thats where it should be. This bubble (thats now popping) is exactly the same phenomenon as the Tulip.

You do have a very good point, there. I know that much of the current dollar value of gold is fear driven. I don't know how gold is similar to tulip mania, really, but I do see the similarity between that and bitcoin.

Gold should not cost in dollars what it cost from the eighties to '05 -- A lot has happened since then -- the whole world is finally learning to not trust our dollars. If they ever manage to trade oil for other currencies, I think we're done.

That was a big reason the dollar was so valuable. It backed other currencies. These other countries are learning their lesson about that an the only reason they don't dump all of their dollars tomorrow is because it'd crash their own currencies.

I still agree that the dollar price is way too high- you burn a LOT of them buying into gold and as you also were saying, I think that was you, most people don't even take actual delivery when they buy gold anyway.

MrMaxwell · 11-24-2013, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adendreams

Yes this is a good point. The definition of the word "Intrinsic" is very fluid and like many other words in the English language it must necessarily adapt to changing conditions - as in the invention and worldwide (nearly) adoption of the World Wide Web.

The concept of intrinsic value has been characterized above in terms of the value that something has ?in itself,? or ?for its own sake,? or ?as such,? or ?in its own right.? The custom has been not to distinguish between the meanings of these terms, but we will see that there is reason to think that there may in fact be more than one concept at issue here. For the moment, though, let us ignore this complication and focus on what it means to say that something is valuable for its own sake as opposed to being valuable for the sake of something else to which it is related in some way.
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/va...sic-extrinsic/

So Bitcoin has value based on three main criteria:

1. It takes work (resources) to acquire.
2. It is finite in supply.
3. It can be transferred anonymously, with no oversight or taxation from any Government or agency.

Of course if the internet went down globally it would lose it's value but for the sake of discussion we assume the net stays alive.

To those holding the currency that have the desire to trade wealth anonymously, as long as there is someone out there with the desire to trade in the currency, there is value in that...Intrinsic no longer matters in this new paradigm. You can't send gold to someone instantly and for free, so it changes the actual definition of value. To many, digital currency may become more useful - thus valuable- than gold.

Of course in any discussions of a paradigm this new we are projecting ideas that may take decades to be fully realized. Digital Currency is so new as to be considered in it's infancy. Bitcoin will very likely fail and be replaced by other more stable, less problematic, Digital Currencies.

If we're arguing linguistics here I'd say that bitcoin has more EXtrinsic value than INtrinsic value
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/extrinsic

adendreams · 11-24-2013, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMaxwell

If we're arguing linguistics here I'd say that bitcoin has more EXtrinsic value than INtrinsic value
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/extrinsic

Good points.

Here's the thing about linguistics: They change.

The English Language evolves and new words are added (twerk?) and meanings of words are modified or expanded, some words lose their original meanings in the myriad ways with which they become used.

MrMaxwell · 11-24-2013, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adendreams

Good points.

Here's the thing about linguistics: They change.

The English Language evolves and new words are added (twerk?) and meanings of words are modified or expanded, some words lose their original meanings in the myriad ways with which they become used.

Agreed, but for the record, I never have liked that "new word"... "twerk".. what a word, eh? I prefer to say "Bitch shaking her ass", myself

adendreams · 11-24-2013, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMaxwell

Agreed, but for the record, I never have liked that "new word"... "twerk".. what a word, eh? I prefer to say "Bitch shaking her ass", myself

yea. ugly fucking word

Intrinsic is a nice clean word - but the meaning is become very vague with this interwebs shit.

2012 · 11-24-2013, 10:34 PM

420 · 11-24-2013, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2012

this is the secret to trading crypto currency

gary busey approved

adendreams · 11-25-2013, 12:26 AM

Anyone curious to know what this so called "Economist" has to say about shit:
Dead wrong on inflation. Dead wrong on interest rates. Dead wrong on the recovery. Dead wrong on gold.

Total fucking Charlatan

adendreams · 11-25-2013, 12:31 AM

last year he predicted gold going to $5000 per ounce

If this total fucking con artist EVER had a job as an Economist - he would have been fired a long time ago.

facialfreak · 11-25-2013, 12:33 AM

I fail to see why people feel compelled to fight over this??

Bitcoin is not for everybody ... so if you have no interest in it, just move along little doggie ... that's it!!

Likewise, precious metals are not for everybody either ...

Some will, some won't, WHO THE FUCK CARES, ... and next!

Arguing the merits of bitcoins to a hardline conformist, is sort of like trying to discuss the Bible with an atheist .... for the most part A WASTE OF TIME!!!

anexsia · 11-25-2013, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

I only have time to watch the first 5 minutes right now. But while I like Bitcoins as a short term payment method I think it's totally different as a long term currency or investment. The thing to keep in mind is what do you think the odds are that it will even stay a viable currency (let alone retain it's value) 1 year from now? 3 years from now? 5 years from now? 10 years from now? If you are planning on holding on to it for a while you are taking a very big bet. The longer you hold, the higher your risk.

With gold OTOH as he says you can be reasonably sure it will have some long term value. It's possible it might not (for instance if it can be easily replicated cheaply) but the odds are much better than with bitcoins where if it gets hacked, outlawed, or something better comes along then you are probably screwed.

Technically bitcoins have been around for a couple of years now and have weathered many storms already. There's a lot of users on this very forum who were saying bitcoins would be worth nothing right now or weren't worth putting money in and now look at where they are at! I wouldn't trust any user on here with investment advice or advice on what you should do with your money.

adendreams · 11-25-2013, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by facialfreak

I fail to see why people feel compelled to fight over this??

Bitcoin is not for everybody ... so if you have no interest in it, just move along little doggie ... that's it!!

Likewise, precious metals are not for everybody either ...

Some will, some won't, WHO THE FUCK CARES, ... and next!

Arguing the merits of bitcoins to a hardline conformist, is sort of like trying to discuss the Bible with an atheist .... for the most part A WASTE OF TIME!!!

Always cracks me up when people waste their time telling others how not to waste time.

dyna mo · 11-25-2013, 09:07 AM

fyi, a dollar bill is instrinsically worthless too, news @ 11.

adendreams · 11-25-2013, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyna mo

fyi, a dollar bill is instrinsically worthless too, news @ 11.

exactly.

why anyone would place any importance on that word is stupid as fuck.

whats worse is a con artist trying to tell you to buy gold at $1300 per ounce BECAUSE it has intrinsic value.

MrMaxwell · 11-26-2013, 03:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adendreams

exactly.

why anyone would place any importance on that word is stupid as fuck.

whats worse is a con artist trying to tell you to buy gold at $1300 per ounce BECAUSE it has intrinsic value.

Gold is however many dollars per ounce because the DOLLARS are not worth anything.. and because of some other factors you and others had mentioned. Dollars have whatever "value" they have based on some factors I mentioned.

huey · 11-26-2013, 10:08 AM

They should back bitcoins with gold or silver.

DWB · 11-26-2013, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adendreams

Always cracks me up when people waste their time telling others how not to waste time.

This actually cracks me up more...

https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=938776

11-24-2013, 05:46 PM	#54
420 cuck Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 11,571	He says your fiat money is infinite and worthless and the only use for dollars is paying taxes. Reminds me of this guy: Who would buy bitcoins now to hold forever? The volatility is the whole point of trading them. __________________ <!--BEGIN SIMUTRONICS PLAY BUTTON CODE --> <p align="center"> <a href="http://buddy.play.net/dr?TMOREAU1"> <img src="drplay.gif" width="128" height="64" alt="Play DragonRealms!"></a></p> <!--END SIMUTRONICS PLAY BUTTON CODE -->

11-24-2013, 05:49 PM	#55
adendreams Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: LA and Florida Posts: 1,887	http://www.usagold.com/reference/prices/2002.html You really want to believe a guy who says BUY GOLD! hahaha yea right for $1300 an ounce...11 years ago it was $270 and could go right back there __________________ Aden - Your Content Shooter Superfreak ADEN CONTENT · HD Video · Ex-GF · Am Content · Pro Content · PHP Programming · Package Deals • Skype or ICQ available on request •

11-24-2013, 10:34 PM	#67
2012 So Fucking What Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 17,189	__________________ best host: Webair \| best sponsor: Kink \| best coder: 688218966 \| Go Fuck Yourself

11-25-2013, 12:26 AM	#69
adendreams Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: LA and Florida Posts: 1,887	Anyone curious to know what this so called "Economist" has to say about shit: Dead wrong on inflation. Dead wrong on interest rates. Dead wrong on the recovery. Dead wrong on gold. Total fucking Charlatan __________________ Aden - Your Content Shooter Superfreak ADEN CONTENT · HD Video · Ex-GF · Am Content · Pro Content · PHP Programming · Package Deals • Skype or ICQ available on request •

11-25-2013, 12:31 AM	#70
adendreams Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: LA and Florida Posts: 1,887	last year he predicted gold going to $5000 per ounce If this total fucking con artist EVER had a job as an Economist - he would have been fired a long time ago. __________________ Aden - Your Content Shooter Superfreak ADEN CONTENT · HD Video · Ex-GF · Am Content · Pro Content · PHP Programming · Package Deals • Skype or ICQ available on request • Last edited by adendreams; 11-25-2013 at 12:34 AM..

11-24-2013, 05:52 PM	#56
money biz Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 975	great vid but bitcoin does have value its anonymous currency.

11-25-2013, 12:33 AM	#71
facialfreak Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Montreal Posts: 3,018	I fail to see why people feel compelled to fight over this?? Bitcoin is not for everybody ... so if you have no interest in it, just move along little doggie ... that's it!! Likewise, precious metals are not for everybody either ... Some will, some won't, WHO THE FUCK CARES, ... and next! Arguing the merits of bitcoins to a hardline conformist, is sort of like trying to discuss the Bible with an atheist .... for the most part A WASTE OF TIME!!! __________________ Managed Shared Hosting starting at $4.99/mo Managed VPS starting at $29.99/mo

11-25-2013, 09:07 AM	#74
dyna mo The People's Post Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: invisible 7-11 Posts: 65,347	fyi, a dollar bill is instrinsically worthless too, news @ 11.

11-26-2013, 10:08 AM	#77
huey Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: vancouver Posts: 3,791	They should back bitcoins with gold or silver. __________________ opinions are like assholes................. "They aren't after me, they are AFTER YOU! Im just in their way" -D.J. Trump