So what if a tiny minority in America owns most of the wealth... - Page 3 - GoFuckYourself.com

dyna mo · 12-17-2013, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Because they haven't found THE guy yet.

Just because you have a better idea or can do something unique does not equate to success.

You have to have the TOTAL PACKAGE.

There are a tens of millions of guys out there who can sing a whole lot better than Mick Jagger.
But he had the total package and was hungry for it and seized the opportunity when it came his way.

Thousands of other bands of that same era with BETTER singers did not.

For the Libertarians...they need a candidate that has all the same ideas as Gary Johnson, BUT with the charisma of Obama, Clinton, or Reagan.

It's the TOTAL PACKAGE that makes you the alpha predator. Not just one thing.

like all the dems and repubs currently holding office? cream rises to the top here?

those are total package people? hardly.

mick jagger made it for many more reasons other than mick jagger. if mick were born in des moines and never met keith and the rest, and been fortunate enough to come across ronnie wood later, we would not be talking about him here.

but you also lend credence to my point when you say "they have not found the right guy yet." that goes straight to the gifted athlete i mentioned that never received proper coaching and is now a high school history teacher.

/

TheSquealer · 12-17-2013, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12clicks

this is the inequity you get when, instead of letting the least able die out, you instead prop them up and let them breed.

This is a funny thing... in both evolutionary biology and economics, a simple problem has to be overcome for the group/system to survive. All successful animals that live in groups have, in one way or another eliminated this problem... that is the "free rider". For a group to survive and succeed, they can't have those who will take more than they offer. That behavior is discouraged and often brutally eliminated. After all, if the tribe goes to war and _Richard_ stays home because he's a cowardly pussy and he then reaps the rewards of being a pussy in the form of the wealth and goods left behind, increased mating opportunities etc, the tribe will ultimately fail when it becomes a tribe of pussies and is inevitably ran over by a tribe full of 12clicks. This is why _Richards_ are treated harshly, imprisoned or even killed. This why they will be branded a coward, be said to have no honor etc etc etc - everything possible will be done to discourage this behavior as it is a great detriment to the survival of the tribe.

We now however, have evolved to an odd point that for the first time ever... we are the first social animals to go from ruthlessly eliminating free riders and celebrating success and wealth, to celebrating and protecting free riders. They've basically taken over. Theirs is now the loudest voice.

Instead of being shamed, they are being empowered. Instead of being characterized as losers as we had seen in our younger days, they are now viewed as noble. As a society and thanks to political correctness, we've come to embrace the lowest common denominator in every form... as every voice against them was slowly silenced. We've even allowed them characterize success in business as a horrible crime against humanity.

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude · 12-17-2013, 12:05 PM

The Horatio Alger myth is alive and well on GFY, where wealth is the product of a meritocracy, and the direct consequence of "honesty, thrift, self-reliance, industry, a cheerful whistle and an open manly face".

ADG

TheSquealer · 12-17-2013, 12:18 PM

Liberals are Liberal. Conservatives are Conservative.

Shocking.

Biggy · 12-17-2013, 12:47 PM

You cannot have a talk about wealth inequality without having a talk about:

1. Globalization
2. Technology
3. Taxes

Everyone is so fixated on taxes and how the game is "rigged." I don't think the game is rigged. There are those who are in position to exploit #1 and #2, and those that aren't. Taxes are the smallest part of the problem / solution.

You can raise taxes, it won't do a damn thing to improve the lives on the poor who have lost their jobs and leverage in a world of globalization and technology. All you'd have is a bigger and more incompetent government, that spies on you more, wastes more $, fucks more things up. Everything the government touches goes to shit, thats the general rule.

Maybe we could force all companies not to use technology or globalize. That would certainly flatten the income gap. It would also flatten everyone's quality of life, including the poor although they'd have more "income." Everything they'd be buying would also be way more expensive.

mopek1 · 12-17-2013, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Because they haven't found THE guy yet.

There are a tens of millions of guys out there who can sing a whole lot better than Mick Jagger.
But he had the total package and was hungry for it and seized the opportunity when it came his way.

Nah. He did well but there are so many factors that go into how people become THAT successful and what you mentioned above is just one.

Same goes for athletes. So many stars have to align and with many, you have no control over them.

mopek1 · 12-17-2013, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

This is a funny thing... in both evolutionary biology and economics, a simple problem has to be overcome for the group/system to survive. All successful animals that live in groups have, in one way or another eliminated this problem... that is the "free rider". For a group to survive and succeed, they can't have those who will take more than they offer. That behavior is discouraged and often brutally eliminated. After all, if the tribe goes to war and _Richard_ stays home because he's a cowardly pussy and he then reaps the rewards of being a pussy in the form of the wealth and goods left behind, increased mating opportunities etc, the tribe will ultimately fail when it becomes a tribe of pussies and is inevitably ran over by a tribe full of 12clicks. This is why _Richards_ are treated harshly, imprisoned or even killed. This why they will be branded a coward, be said to have no honor etc etc etc - everything possible will be done to discourage this behavior as it is a great detriment to the survival of the tribe.

We now however, have evolved to an odd point that for the first time ever... we are the first social animals to go from ruthlessly eliminating free riders and celebrating success and wealth, to celebrating and protecting free riders. They've basically taken over. Theirs is now the loudest voice.

Instead of being shamed, they are being empowered. Instead of being characterized as losers as we had seen in our younger days, they are now viewed as noble. As a society and thanks to political correctness, we've come to embrace the lowest common denominator in every form... as every voice against them was slowly silenced. We've even allowed them characterize success in business as a horrible crime against humanity.

Seriously?

Yes. Some people are lazy. I don't like it.

But ...

That's not why we hate the top 1%.

Minte · 12-17-2013, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

This is a funny thing... in both evolutionary biology and economics, a simple problem has to be overcome for the group/system to survive. All successful animals that live in groups have, in one way or another eliminated this problem... that is the "free rider". For a group to survive and succeed, they can't have those who will take more than they offer. That behavior is discouraged and often brutally eliminated. After all, if the tribe goes to war and _Richard_ stays home because he's a cowardly pussy and he then reaps the rewards of being a pussy in the form of the wealth and goods left behind, increased mating opportunities etc, the tribe will ultimately fail when it becomes a tribe of pussies and is inevitably ran over by a tribe full of 12clicks. This is why _Richards_ are treated harshly, imprisoned or even killed. This why they will be branded a coward, be said to have no honor etc etc etc - everything possible will be done to discourage this behavior as it is a great detriment to the survival of the tribe.

We now however, have evolved to an odd point that for the first time ever... we are the first social animals to go from ruthlessly eliminating free riders and celebrating success and wealth, to celebrating and protecting free riders. They've basically taken over. Theirs is now the loudest voice.

Instead of being shamed, they are being empowered. Instead of being characterized as losers as we had seen in our younger days, they are now viewed as noble. As a society and thanks to political correctness, we've come to embrace the lowest common denominator in every form... as every voice against them was slowly silenced. We've even allowed them characterize success in business as a horrible crime against humanity.

In a few years the winds of change will blow. The sheep will still be sheep and the herders will be right there to remind them.

12clicks · 12-17-2013, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mopek1

Seriously?

Yes. Some people are lazy. I don't like it.

But ...

That's not why we hate the top 1%.

no, you hate the 1% because they represent what COULD have been, had you not wasted your life.

TheSquealer · 12-17-2013, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minte

In a few years the winds of change will blow. The sheep will still be sheep and the herders will be right there to remind them.

This has always been the case throughout history. History has also proven time and time again that when the sheep manage to take over and make everything "fair" according to their misguided senses, it is always met with miserable failure.

Robbie · 12-17-2013, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mopek1

Same goes for athletes. So many stars have to align and with many, you have no control over them.

That CAN be true here in the U.S.

But I've found that the truly successful people seem to always be in the right place at the right time.

I think it again comes down to how hungry you are for what you are trying to achieve.

For instance, when Internext and AVN happen this year...how many of you will actually be there?
Lightning could strike and a situation could present itself that could lead to a huge opportunity. Or it might not.

But the people who are successful see a gathering of their industry as a chance that something MIGHT happen. And they are on the scene with all their ducks in a row waiting for that opportunity.

It's never the "right time" if you don't make sure you are in the "right place".

Antonio · 12-17-2013, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

This has always been the case throughout history. History has also proven time and time again that when the sheep manage to take over and make everything "fair" according to their misguided senses, it is always met with miserable failure.

Yeah, you can see the Scandinavian countries "failing miserably" having among the highest GDP per capita, the most developed societies, the lowest violent crime rate, you name it ...

TheSquealer · 12-17-2013, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antonio

Yeah, you can see the Scandinavian countries "failing miserably" having among the highest GDP per capita, the most developed societies, the lowest violent crime rate, you name it ...

Ahhhh if only we could turn every inner city single mother of 7 kids into a Swede.

BFT3K · 12-17-2013, 02:28 PM

A few things to think about...

There are over 7 billion people on the planet, and most of them would be happy to work for pennies.

Most corporations that used to be considered "American" are now classified as "multi-nationals".

-------

Here is one of millions of true stories you can hear all over America. This is a very abbreviated tale, but it is just an example...

A friend of mine used to sell car seats. He is located in the US, his sewers were located in the US, his suppliers were located in the US, etc.

He made some decent money, and rented a space with 8 full-time employees.

Over time, everything became more expensive, and more competitive, so he started buying supplies from overseas to save a buck. Pretty soon, so did his competition.

The profit margins per/seat were squeezed, so he embraced the internet, added e-commerce, downgraded to a smaller space, and reduced his staff to just 2 full-time employees.

Over time, the internet, which was originally his saving grace, turned on him. Within no time, his replacement seats were being sold on eBay, through China, for less than his cost!

At that point he had to let his final 2 employees go, he moved into the basement of his own house, and now he is looking for a job, while in his early 60's.

He is not a lazy "taker" - he is one of millions of "victims" of the new unregulated corporate world.

Some people are smart/lucky enough to weather this storm, and some are not so fortunate.

---------

Now let's cut to reality....

Almost none of our elected officials give a shit about the people or their country any more. Big money interests have trumped the interests of the people.

There are no more checks and balances for the largest multinationals. They can do whatever the fuck they want now, and no one can stop them.

They piss in your water, pollute your food, kill your unions, eliminate pensions, etc.

Leaders on both sides PRETEND to give a shit, but the writing's on the wall now, and the politicians are grabbing what they can before the ship goes down.

The mainstream media, which is now owned by only 5 or 6 corporations, have done a superb job of hiding the realities of corporate injustices, and redirecting the anger to people-vs-other people, to deflect the guilt.

Rather than come up with real solutions to make the world better, we have people in congress, who want to eliminate the minimum wage completely. In other words, rather than build up the lower and middle classes, they don't even want to bother.

The corporate interests tell them they can hire people for $1 p/hour somewhere else, so if the US wants to compete, our "elected officials" are told they should remove all regulations from American business, and reduce the worker's pay to that of 3rd world countries, so there is an even playing field.

As long as corporations can offshore everything, hire workers from anywhere, never pay the price for pollution, etc., they win, and we all lose. It is a race to the bottom.

This is not necessarily a D vs R issue. Even as we speak, Obama is ramming through a new trade Pacific Trade agreement, that will only exasperate this imbalance.

As an example, Walmart buys tons of shit from China. Small businesses in towns where there are Walmarts can not compete with this behemoth, so they go out of business. Then the people in town have to line up for shit Walmart wages, since there are no other places to work, and the cycle continues.

Shit wages are too low for American made products, so you need to buy from shit stores like Walmart, so Walmart says, "look, we only sell crap from China because our customers need low priced items" and around and around we go.

The big money sees what's going down, so they invest in corporate-run prison systems, as they know that's where a good number of people will wind up.

They've also polluted the military with private contractors, so now war and weapons are just another cash cow.

Things can be fixed, but only if the slave people rise up against their captors.

Minte · 12-17-2013, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BFT3K

A few things to think about...

There are over 7 billion people on the planet, and most of them would be happy to work for pennies.

Most corporations that used to be considered "American" are now classified as "multi-nationals".

-------

Here is one of millions of true stories you can hear all over America. This is a very abbreviated tale, but it is just an example...

A friend of mine used to sell car seats. He is located in the US, his sewers were located in the US, his suppliers were located in the US, etc.

He made some decent money, and rented a space with 8 full-time employees.

Over time, everything became more expensive, and more competitive, so he started buying supplies from overseas to save a buck. Pretty soon, so did his competition.

The profit margins per/seat were squeezed, so he embraced the internet, added e-commerce, downgraded to a smaller space, and reduced his staff to just 2 full-time employees.

Over time, the internet, which was originally his saving grace, turned on him. Within no time, his replacement seats were being sold on eBay, through China, for less than his cost!

At that point he had to let his final 2 employees go, he moved into the basement of his own house, and now he is looking for a job, while in his early 60's.

He is not a lazy "taker" - he is one of millions of "victims" of the new unregulated corporate world.

Some people are smart/lucky enough to weather this storm, and some are not so fortunate.

---------

Now let's cut to reality....

Almost none of our elected officials give a shit about the people or their country any more. Big money interests have trumped the interests of the people.

There are no more checks and balances for the largest multinationals. They can do whatever the fuck they want now, and no one can stop them.

They piss in your water, pollute your food, kill your unions, eliminate pensions, etc.

Leaders on both sides PRETEND to give a shit, but the writing's on the wall now, and the politicians are grabbing what they can before the ship goes down.

The mainstream media, which is now owned by only 5 or 6 corporations, have done a superb job of hiding the realities of corporate injustices, and redirecting the anger to people-vs-other people, to deflect the guilt.

Rather than come up with real solutions to make the world better, we have people in congress, who want to eliminate the minimum wage completely. In other words, rather than build up the lower and middle classes, they don't even want to bother.

The corporate interests tell them they can hire people for $1 p/hour somewhere else, so if you want to compete, you should remove all regulations from American businesses, and reduce the worker's pay to that of 3rd world countries, so there is an even playing field.

As long as corporations can offshore everything, hire workers from anywhere, never pay the price for pollution, etc., they win, and we all lose.

This is not necessarily a D vs R issue. Even as we speak, Obama is ramming through a new trade Pacific Trade agreement, that will only exasperate this imbalance.

As an example, Walmart buys tons of shit from China. Small businesses in towns where there are Walmarts can not compete with this behemoth, so they go out of business. Then the people in town have to line up for shit Walmart wages, since there are no other places to work, and the cycle continues.

Shit wages are too low for American made products, so you need to buy from shit stores like Walmart, so Walmart says, "look, we only sell crap from China because our customers need low priced items" and around and around we go.

The big money sees what's going down, so they invest in corporate-run prison systems, as they know that's where a good number of people will wind up.

They've also polluted the military with private contractors, so now war and weapons are another cash cow.

Things can be fixed, but only if the slave people rise up against their captors.

I am impressed! you can type a comment.

And a good one at that. This was the part that really sums it all up.

Almost none of our elected officials give a shit about the people or their country any more. Big money interests have trumped the interests of the people.

There are no more checks and balances for the largest multinationals. They can do whatever the fuck they want now, and no one can stop them.

Robbie · 12-17-2013, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BFT3K

Big money interests have trumped the interests of the people.
Things can be fixed, but only if the slave people rise up against their captors.

My thoughts are this:
There is NO bigger "big money interest" than the govt. itself.

Walmart made 15.7 billion dollars profit in 2012. The U.S. Govt. spends more than that in TWO DAYS.

Our "captors" ARE the federal govt.

The U.S. govt. is bigger and has more money than every corporation combined.

BFT3K · 12-17-2013, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

My thoughts are this:
There is NO bigger "big money interest" than the govt. itself.

Walmart made 15.7 billion dollars profit in 2012. The U.S. Govt. spends more than that in TWO DAYS.

Our "captors" ARE the federal govt.

The U.S. govt. is bigger and has more money than every corporation combined.

A properly implemented government is the ONLY chance the people have against corporate corruption and imbalance.

Sadly, we do not really have a government "of the people for the people" any longer - It is "by the corporations for the corporations" now.

The idea that Fox and Hate Radio have convinced so many fools that the Government is the villain, is just another success story for those who own you.

BFT3K · 12-17-2013, 03:37 PM

kane · 12-17-2013, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

That CAN be true here in the U.S.

But I've found that the truly successful people seem to always be in the right place at the right time.

I think it again comes down to how hungry you are for what you are trying to achieve.

For instance, when Internext and AVN happen this year...how many of you will actually be there?
Lightning could strike and a situation could present itself that could lead to a huge opportunity. Or it might not.

But the people who are successful see a gathering of their industry as a chance that something MIGHT happen. And they are on the scene with all their ducks in a row waiting for that opportunity.

It's never the "right time" if you don't make sure you are in the "right place".

I love the old quote that says, "Luck is where the crossroads of opportunity and preparation meet."

slapass · 12-17-2013, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minte

Bush actually initiated the 179 depreciation schedules, and without them the manufacturing economy would've never come back. It would've been cheaper to just expand purchases in China. Obama is simply taking them away. Keeps with the current theme of more taxes.

Commercial and industrial buildings in our state are assessed by the state treasury department. You are correct that the MIL rate is the same in the city, but the assessment value isn't even close. My industrial buildings took a much larger tax hit than my home.

The code is not country specific by my understanding. Did not know it was bush. Still not a fan of it. Leave it alone is a better idea. Let business take a long term look versus try and force us to do what is good for your re election in two years.

Still not sure what you are getting at with the commercial building. It has little or nothing to do with your net worth. Your tax rate is based on value times mill rate. It is the same if you are worth a ton or down under on the mtge.

Minte · 12-17-2013, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BFT3K

A properly implemented government is the ONLY chance the people have against corporate corruption and imbalance.

Sadly, we do not really have a government "of the people for the people" any longer - It is "by the corporations for the corporations" now.

The idea that Fox and Hate Radio have convinced so many fools that the Government is the villain, is just another success story for those who own you.

You are shocked that businesses who only have one goal and it is to make money while government is there to serve the people. Who is the villain? It's obvious who the fools are..

slapass · 12-17-2013, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

This is a funny thing... in both evolutionary biology and economics, a simple problem has to be overcome for the group/system to survive. All successful animals that live in groups have, in one way or another eliminated this problem... that is the "free rider". For a group to survive and succeed, they can't have those who will take more than they offer. That behavior is discouraged and often brutally eliminated. After all, if the tribe goes to war and _Richard_ stays home because he's a cowardly pussy and he then reaps the rewards of being a pussy in the form of the wealth and goods left behind, increased mating opportunities etc, the tribe will ultimately fail when it becomes a tribe of pussies and is inevitably ran over by a tribe full of 12clicks. This is why _Richards_ are treated harshly, imprisoned or even killed. This why they will be branded a coward, be said to have no honor etc etc etc - everything possible will be done to discourage this behavior as it is a great detriment to the survival of the tribe.

We now however, have evolved to an odd point that for the first time ever... we are the first social animals to go from ruthlessly eliminating free riders and celebrating success and wealth, to celebrating and protecting free riders. They've basically taken over. Theirs is now the loudest voice.

Instead of being shamed, they are being empowered. Instead of being characterized as losers as we had seen in our younger days, they are now viewed as noble. As a society and thanks to political correctness, we've come to embrace the lowest common denominator in every form... as every voice against them was slowly silenced. We've even allowed them characterize success in business as a horrible crime against humanity.

Nice try. Free loaders are defined as soldiers, politicians and religious figures. Once we left the hunter gatherer stage we started to add freeloaders. Yes tribes are different but most first areas have not had tribe structures for thousands of years.

Atticus · 12-17-2013, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BFT3K

What actually does work is 'Trickle Up' economics.

You give a corporation a tax break or subsidy and they pocket it. Because they understand that there is no reason to build a new factory/location or hire employees because there is no demand. Their #1 goal is to increase shareholder value.

You give a tax break to the middle class or working class and they spend it. Either on necessities needed to survive or some crap they probably don't need. Their purchasing power creates demand which in turn causes corporations to expand.

The money ends up in the same spot however it also creates new employment and a stronger middle class in the process.

$5 submissions · 12-17-2013, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by H-Tom

Thank you for this.

Personally, I think the whole notion of INCOME INEQUALITY only exists as FODDER for political maneuvering and racking up political power.

Someone mentioned the fact here that in 1900, there were 2 economic stars in the Western hemisphere: the US and Argentina. The US went its way, Argentina tried POPULISM and SOCKING it to greedy imperialists and capitalist oppressors.... You know the rest of the story, kids.

$5 submissions · 12-17-2013, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BFT3K

A properly implemented government ...

You have LOTS of faith in the government. The same government behind the Obamacare rollout?

Robbie · 12-17-2013, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BFT3K

A properly implemented government is the ONLY chance the people have against corporate corruption and imbalance.

Sadly, we do not really have a government "of the people for the people" any longer - It is "by the corporations for the corporations" now.

The idea that Fox and Hate Radio have convinced so many fools that the Government is the villain, is just another success story for those who own you.

Tell that to all the people in this world living under dictatorships.

Funny how you think I'm the one being owned. I think just the opposite.

BFT3K · 12-17-2013, 04:04 PM

Within the next few years corporations will figure out cost-effective ways to reduce the workforce even further.

As an example, fast food restaurants will develop automated machines and computers to prepare and deliver your order. The only employees they will need at that time, will be a skeletal crew to make sure the machines are functioning properly.

This will happen with or without an increase to the minimum wage, but by increasing the minimum wage first, the corporate owners of this country will say "See, I told you that increasing the minimum wage would result in less employment."

As long as the corporations are allowed to prioritize greed over humanity, and no one is there to force a sensible balance, it is game over.

woj · 12-17-2013, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BFT3K

Within the next few years corporations will figure out cost-effective ways to reduce the workforce even further.

As an example, fast food restaurants will develop automated machines and computers to prepare and deliver your order. The only employees they will need at that time, will be a skeletal crew to make sure the machines are functioning properly.

This will happen with or without an increase to the minimum wage, but by increasing the minimum wage first, the corporate owners of this country will say "See, I told you that increasing the minimum wage would result in less employment."

As long as the corporations are allowed to prioritize greed over humanity, and no one is there to force a sensible balance, it is game over.

you view that scenario as a problem, to others it sounds like a golden opportunity for those who choose to get training to become installers, programmers, salesmen, repairmen, etc of these machines...

Which one do you want to be when these machines roll out? one that bitches: "these machines took my job!" or the one that chose to get training in repairing/programming/etc those machines?

mopek1 · 12-17-2013, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12clicks

no, you hate the 1% because they represent what COULD have been, had you not wasted your life.

Even if we all worked 100 times harder, we'd never be in the 1% ... it's not about that.

mopek1 · 12-17-2013, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

That CAN be true here in the U.S.

But I've found that the truly successful people seem to always be in the right place at the right time.

I think it again comes down to how hungry you are for what you are trying to achieve.

For instance, when Internext and AVN happen this year...how many of you will actually be there?
Lightning could strike and a situation could present itself that could lead to a huge opportunity. Or it might not.

But the people who are successful see a gathering of their industry as a chance that something MIGHT happen. And they are on the scene with all their ducks in a row waiting for that opportunity.

It's never the "right time" if you don't make sure you are in the "right place".

You said in that above quote, "Truly successful people"

I believe you ... but they are not in the 1% ....

mopek1 · 12-17-2013, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Tell that to all the people in this world living under dictatorships.

He didn't say governments.

He said, "properly implemented governments"

Big difference.

mopek1 · 12-17-2013, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by $5 submissions

You have LOTS of faith in the government. The same government behind the Obamacare rollout?

Again ... he said a "properly implemented government"

12clicks · 12-17-2013, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mopek1

Even if we all worked 100 times harder, we'd never be in the 1% ... it's not about that.

It is about that.
You're so far down from the 1% you're not even aware that there are a number of 1%ers in this thread.

You simply never did anything to become one.

Robbie · 12-17-2013, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mopek1

You said in that above quote, "Truly successful people"

I believe you ... but they are not in the 1% ....

Really?

"The latest numbers from the IRS -- based on 2010 tax returns -- show what it takes to be among the top 1% of income earners: adjusted gross income of $369,691 or more. The 1.4 million Americans with this elite status reported 16.9% of all the country's taxable income.
Read more at http://www.kiplinger.com/article/taxes/T054-C000-S001-where-do-you-rank-as-a-taxpayer.html#rkx1tv0h0rISIMGc.99"

Looks like I and MANY of the people right here on GFY have easily been in the top 1% for years.

The only truly rich thing in this world is the federal govt.

As I told you before...the U.S. govt. spends more in TWO DAYS than Walmart makes in profit in an entire year!

The TOP percent is the Federal Govt.
And they don't do ANYTHING to earn that money.

Why aren't more people pissed off about that?

SilentKnight · 12-17-2013, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L-Pink

Generally speaking if you are smart enough to MAKE a lot of money you are smart enough not to squander it. Windfalls are a different story. Windfalls are about doing everything you ever wanted to do.

Generally speaking...you may be right.

Although...

In the 70s my aunt and uncle made it big when the ceramic fad was the 'pet rock' of the era. They started small - teaching classes in a spare room in their farmhouse. Within a few years they expanded to a modest store in a commercial plaza...then opened a large store and distribution warehouse in Toronto. They built a multi-million dollar business out of it, one of the largest in Canada at the time. They sold kilns, greenware, finished ceramic pieces...the works. They even opened a coast-to-coast catalog service.

Along with it, they bought a luxury condo, a huge yacht, luxury car...lavish vacations. They lived high on the hog - demonstrating to the rest of the family just how 'successful' they were.

Trouble was - while they were living the grandiose lifestyle - they failed to realize ceramics was a short-lived fad. Demand died off, creditors came knocking...the business tanked. Yacht was sold, along with the condo...the car.

Sure, they worked hard and took risks and gambles. But they never saw the crash coming before it was too late.

Moral to the story - don't bank too heavily on a fad.

slapass · 12-17-2013, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Really?

"The latest numbers from the IRS -- based on 2010 tax returns -- show what it takes to be among the top 1% of income earners: adjusted gross income of $369,691 or more. The 1.4 million Americans with this elite status reported 16.9% of all the country's taxable income.
Read more at http://www.kiplinger.com/article/taxes/T054-C000-S001-where-do-you-rank-as-a-taxpayer.html#rkx1tv0h0rISIMGc.99"

Looks like I and MANY of the people right here on GFY have easily been in the top 1% for years.

The only truly rich thing in this world is the federal govt.

As I told you before...the U.S. govt. spends more in TWO DAYS than Walmart makes in profit in an entire year!

The TOP percent is the Federal Govt.
And they don't do ANYTHING to earn that money.

Why aren't more people pissed off about that?

Most of realize we need some form of govt.

Robbie · 12-17-2013, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slapass

Most of realize we need some form of govt.

Yeah, a govt. that SERVES the people.

Our govt. has moved way beyond that. They now serve themselves.

Did you or I decide to spend trillions of dollars arming and then bombing and killing people in the Middle East? Hell no. Matter of fact, most of the people didn't even understand WHY we were hit on 9-11.

Did you or I decide to have the govt. spend almost twice as much as it brings in? (and it brings in more money than any govt. in HISTORY has ever brought in...and still manages to spend us into a 17 trillion and GROWING deficit)

Did you or I decide to allow the govt. to basically run our lives in many ways from cradle to grave?

Hell no.

The U.S. always had a govt.
But it wasn't always as "all powerful" as the current version.

And up until a few decades ago...it didn't have this much money.

Hell, even in the late 1960's /early 1970's, Howard Hughes was able to make the U.S. govt. stop nuclear testing in Nevada by threatening Richard Nixon in a handwritten note with cutting off money to the U.S. govt.

Now? If you took every billionaire on the planet and put them all together...the U.S. govt. spends more money in a week than all of their wealth combined.

Think about it. If you can't see that it's out of control, then I don't know what to say.

I'm not promoting anarchy. I'm simply saying the govt. needs to be reigned in HARD.

Robbie · 12-17-2013, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilentKnight

Along with it, they bought a luxury condo, a huge yacht, luxury car...lavish vacations. They lived high on the hog

There's another side to that story too...

You only live ONCE in this world. If you can't enjoy the things you worked for, then what is the reason for even being alive?

kane · 12-17-2013, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilentKnight

Generally speaking...you may be right.

Although...

In the 70s my aunt and uncle made it big when the ceramic fad was the 'pet rock' of the era. They started small - teaching classes in a spare room in their farmhouse. Within a few years they expanded to a modest store in a commercial plaza...then opened a large store and distribution warehouse in Toronto. They built a multi-million dollar business out of it, one of the largest in Canada at the time. They sold kilns, greenware, finished ceramic pieces...the works. They even opened a coast-to-coast catalog service.

Along with it, they bought a luxury condo, a huge yacht, luxury car...lavish vacations. They lived high on the hog - demonstrating to the rest of the family just how 'successful' they were.

Trouble was - while they were living the grandiose lifestyle - they failed to realize ceramics was a short-lived fad. Demand died off, creditors came knocking...the business tanked. Yacht was sold, along with the condo...the car.

Sure, they worked hard and took risks and gambles. But they never saw the crash coming before it was too late.

Moral to the story - don't bank too heavily on a fad.

That happens to a lot of people from the poor to the rich. On the rich side of things I saw a story a while back about a guy who worked for a Wall Street hedge fund for several years then left it, moved to Florida and started his own fund. For a few years it did fantastic. They bought a big house, he had a membership at the local country club and golf course and they blew through money. Then the housing collapse hit and with it his business was destroyed.

At the time of the story they were in foreclosure and he was working as a delivery driver for Dominos so he could make enough money that the family would be able to move into a small apartment when the foreclosure went through.

On the lower side of things I know a lot of people who spend every dime they make. Right now my brother and a friend of mine are both in the same situation. They both make about $100K a year and both have daughters that are juniors in high school and want to go to college. Both can't understand why their kids to qualify for financial aid/need based grants. They both say the same thing, "I know I make a good living, but I have a lot of bills so the money is gone." It is because they live in expensive houses, have cars that they are financing, my friend has a time share and they pay for crap they don't even use like they both have every cable channel you can get even though they both admit to not watching it very much. I point out to them that they make twice the average household income and they still think that bills and expenses should be taken into consideration.

slapass · 12-17-2013, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Really?

"The latest numbers from the IRS -- based on 2010 tax returns -- show what it takes to be among the top 1% of income earners: adjusted gross income of $369,691 or more. The 1.4 million Americans with this elite status reported 16.9% of all the country's taxable income.
Read more at http://www.kiplinger.com/article/taxes/T054-C000-S001-where-do-you-rank-as-a-taxpayer.html#rkx1tv0h0rISIMGc.99"

Looks like I and MANY of the people right here on GFY have easily been in the top 1% for years.

The only truly rich thing in this world is the federal govt.

As I told you before...the U.S. govt. spends more in TWO DAYS than Walmart makes in profit in an entire year!

The TOP percent is the Federal Govt.
And they don't do ANYTHING to earn that money.

Why aren't more people pissed off about that?

13 of the top 30 richest counties in America are Ina circle around Washington DC.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/...ton-dc/282457/

mopek1 · 12-17-2013, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12clicks

It is about that.
You're so far down from the 1% you're not even aware that there are a number of 1%ers in this thread.

You simply never did anything to become one.

I should have been clearer, my bad.

The 1% are really a metaphor for those who have so much money they own politicians. I'm talking hundreds of billions here. I guess technically that would be 0.01% or threabouts.

mopek1 · 12-17-2013, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Really?

"The latest numbers from the IRS -- based on 2010 tax returns -- show what it takes to be among the top 1% of income earners: adjusted gross income of $369,691 or more. The 1.4 million Americans with this elite status reported 16.9% of all the country's taxable income.
Read more at http://www.kiplinger.com/article/taxes/T054-C000-S001-where-do-you-rank-as-a-taxpayer.html#rkx1tv0h0rISIMGc.99"

Looks like I and MANY of the people right here on GFY have easily been in the top 1% for years.

The only truly rich thing in this world is the federal govt.

As I told you before...the U.S. govt. spends more in TWO DAYS than Walmart makes in profit in an entire year!

The TOP percent is the Federal Govt.
And they don't do ANYTHING to earn that money.

Why aren't more people pissed off about that?

Sorry ... see my reply above.

Minte · 12-17-2013, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atticus

What actually does work is 'Trickle Up' economics.

You give a corporation a tax break or subsidy and they pocket it. Because they understand that there is no reason to build a new factory/location or hire employees because there is no demand. Their #1 goal is to increase shareholder value.

You give a tax break to the middle class or working class and they spend it. Either on necessities needed to survive or some crap they probably don't need. Their purchasing power creates demand which in turn causes corporations to expand.

The money ends up in the same spot however it also creates new employment and a stronger middle class in the process.

That's not true at all. The section 179 depreciation has been responsible for 2013 being one of the strongest years in decades for the machine tool industry. And those machines are used for only one thing. To manufacture goods.

My company is no different than any other business our size. We made good use of those tax incentives. We added well into the 7 figures on new equipment and added 60 jobs..with benefits. Plans are already underway to do it again in 2014 and I believe we will be able to add nearly 100 more full time employees. Business went through the same recession as everyone else. We can't afford to retool and pay higher taxes.

China is losing it's edge. Wages there are increasing, shipping costs are also going up. And doing business with them has never been easy. Only cheap. This is the best opportunity for growth that I've seen in years. Large corporations that have been purchasing in China are coming back to the US for their production needs.

What's more important. Rebuilding manufacturing jobs or giving more money to the government to waste.

Robbie · 12-17-2013, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mopek1

I should have been clearer, my bad.

The 1% are really a metaphor for those who have so much money they own politicians. I'm talking hundreds of billions here. I guess technically that would be 0.01% or threabouts.

There are no people with hundreds of billions of dollars. Nobody.

The richest FAMILY in the world is in Mexico City. They are worth 73 Billion Dollars. About what the U.S. Govt. spends in less than a week.

THE richest guy in the U.S. is Bill Gates. He's worth 67 Billion. I say WORTH...not has 67 billion dollars in his pocket.

I think you guys have it backwards. It's the politicians who OWN everybody. THEY decide the laws. THEY dole out the winners and losers.
Of course they take bribes. Why not? They are crooks.

But make no mistake about it...The U.S. Govt. is a gigantic monstrosity that dwarfs every "giant" corporation put together and has more corruption than ANY business in existence.

We are being misled by the media to think that somehow Bill Gates can control the U.S. Govt. when his entire net worth is less than what the U.S. spends in a week.

slapass · 12-17-2013, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

There are no people with hundreds of billions of dollars. Nobody.

The richest FAMILY in the world is in Mexico City. They are worth 73 Billion Dollars. About what the U.S. Govt. spends in less than a week.

THE richest guy in the U.S. is Bill Gates. He's worth 67 Billion. I say WORTH...not has 67 billion dollars in his pocket.

I think you guys have it backwards. It's the politicians who OWN everybody. THEY decide the laws. THEY dole out the winners and losers.
Of course they take bribes. Why not? They are crooks.

But make no mistake about it...The U.S. Govt. is a gigantic monstrosity that dwarfs every "giant" corporation put together and has more corruption than ANY business in existence.

We are being misled by the media to think that somehow Bill Gates can control the U.S. Govt. when his entire net worth is less than what the U.S. spends in a week.

Didn't you just point out that we aren't owned? True we have issues in the govt but you have travelled a bit and know the USA is a long ways from a disaster.

Robbie · 12-17-2013, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slapass

Didn't you just point out that we aren't owned? True we have issues in the govt but you have travelled a bit and know the USA is a long ways from a disaster.

No, I didn't point out that we aren't owned.

I have said over and over that in the last few decades the govt. has pretty much ruled our lives from cradle to grave.

And yes, I have traveled a bit. Not as much as some of the guys on here who go to every damn show on the planet (JFK heh-heh).

But enough to see that when I come back to the U.S. it's like a damn police state.

It was bad enough BEFORE 9-11. I remember coming back from St. Martin in 1998 and landing in Atlanta. When I got my luggage I had one of those tags saying my luggage had been searched!!!

That REALLY pissed me off. And then I opened my luggage. They had taken and poured all of my shampoo, conditioner, and cologne all over my suits!

Only in America.

And the biggest contrast was going to Amsterdam. I fly into Amsterdam in 2007. They wave us through in the airport. And the whole time I was there I felt...FREE.

When I flew back home? When we first landed they had military looking guys with dogs sniffing us as we walked off the plane.

Then we went to the "U.S. Citizens" line to re-enter the country. I was so embarrassed watching people from other countries having eye scans and being fingerprinted in the other line.

And of course once we jumped through hoops and had to answer "questions" about why we were out of the country (like it's anybodies goddamn business what I do)...we retrieved our luggage to find....you guessed it: the tag saying our fucking luggage had been searched!

It's like being violated and raped by the authorities. All to ride on a glorified bus with wings. lol

So yeah...when I think of "freedom" and "land of the free" and all that other jingoistic bullshit we were taught in school, I do not think of the United States.

I feel much free-er in Mexico, Jamaica, The Bahamas, St. Martin, and of course Amsterdam.

I shouldn't....From everything I was taught as a child, I should never feel anymore free anywhere in the world than here in the United States.

MPGdevil · 12-17-2013, 09:08 PM

I don't think people are mad on people with good ethics who worked hard to become rich.

Problem are those who take shortcuts, stepping on a lot of people getting to the top. And there are a lot of those unfortunately. And when you are first at the top, it becomes even easier to fuck over other people.

BFT3K · 12-17-2013, 09:39 PM

The government does waste a ton of money... on corporate interests...

The corporate owners of this country have perfected ways of convincing people to hate each other, rather than the real culprits...

Robbie · 12-17-2013, 10:49 PM

Good lord BTK...lol

You are so obsessed with Fox News you bring it up in every discussion. If people don't fall in line with your thoughts that it's the people who are evil and the govt. is great, then you automatically start insulting us.

Take it down a notch and join an intelligent discussion without name calling, stupid pictures, and Fox News.

I don't know if you noticed it, but the rest of us are giving honest opinions based on what we all have seen in life experience.

Dumb pictures and insults don't really belong in a grownup conversation bro.

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude · 12-18-2013, 02:34 AM

ADG

12-17-2013, 12:05 PM	#103
AsianDivaGirlsWebDude Purveyor, Fine Asian Porn Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: San Francisco Bay Area Posts: 38,323	The Horatio Alger myth is alive and well on GFY, where wealth is the product of a meritocracy, and the direct consequence of "honesty, thrift, self-reliance, industry, a cheerful whistle and an open manly face". ADG __________________ Asian Diva Girls - Exclusive Photos and Videos Asian Diva Girls Affiliate Program (50% ccBill Revshare)

12-17-2013, 12:18 PM	#104
TheSquealer Mayor of Thneedville Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 25,223	Liberals are Liberal. Conservatives are Conservative. Shocking. __________________ . Yes, fewer illegal immigrants working equates to more job opportunities for American citizens. Rochard

12-17-2013, 12:47 PM	#105
Biggy Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 1,595	You cannot have a talk about wealth inequality without having a talk about: 1. Globalization 2. Technology 3. Taxes Everyone is so fixated on taxes and how the game is "rigged." I don't think the game is rigged. There are those who are in position to exploit #1 and #2, and those that aren't. Taxes are the smallest part of the problem / solution. You can raise taxes, it won't do a damn thing to improve the lives on the poor who have lost their jobs and leverage in a world of globalization and technology. All you'd have is a bigger and more incompetent government, that spies on you more, wastes more $, fucks more things up. Everything the government touches goes to shit, thats the general rule. Maybe we could force all companies not to use technology or globalize. That would certainly flatten the income gap. It would also flatten everyone's quality of life, including the poor although they'd have more "income." Everything they'd be buying would also be way more expensive. Last edited by Biggy; 12-17-2013 at 12:52 PM..

12-17-2013, 02:28 PM	#114
BFT3K Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Narnia Posts: 10,764	A few things to think about... There are over 7 billion people on the planet, and most of them would be happy to work for pennies. Most corporations that used to be considered "American" are now classified as "multi-nationals". ------- Here is one of millions of true stories you can hear all over America. This is a very abbreviated tale, but it is just an example... A friend of mine used to sell car seats. He is located in the US, his sewers were located in the US, his suppliers were located in the US, etc. He made some decent money, and rented a space with 8 full-time employees. Over time, everything became more expensive, and more competitive, so he started buying supplies from overseas to save a buck. Pretty soon, so did his competition. The profit margins per/seat were squeezed, so he embraced the internet, added e-commerce, downgraded to a smaller space, and reduced his staff to just 2 full-time employees. Over time, the internet, which was originally his saving grace, turned on him. Within no time, his replacement seats were being sold on eBay, through China, for less than his cost! At that point he had to let his final 2 employees go, he moved into the basement of his own house, and now he is looking for a job, while in his early 60's. He is not a lazy "taker" - he is one of millions of "victims" of the new unregulated corporate world. Some people are smart/lucky enough to weather this storm, and some are not so fortunate. --------- Now let's cut to reality.... Almost none of our elected officials give a shit about the people or their country any more. Big money interests have trumped the interests of the people. There are no more checks and balances for the largest multinationals. They can do whatever the fuck they want now, and no one can stop them. They piss in your water, pollute your food, kill your unions, eliminate pensions, etc. Leaders on both sides PRETEND to give a shit, but the writing's on the wall now, and the politicians are grabbing what they can before the ship goes down. The mainstream media, which is now owned by only 5 or 6 corporations, have done a superb job of hiding the realities of corporate injustices, and redirecting the anger to people-vs-other people, to deflect the guilt. Rather than come up with real solutions to make the world better, we have people in congress, who want to eliminate the minimum wage completely. In other words, rather than build up the lower and middle classes, they don't even want to bother. The corporate interests tell them they can hire people for $1 p/hour somewhere else, so if the US wants to compete, our "elected officials" are told they should remove all regulations from American business, and reduce the worker's pay to that of 3rd world countries, so there is an even playing field. As long as corporations can offshore everything, hire workers from anywhere, never pay the price for pollution, etc., they win, and we all lose. It is a race to the bottom. This is not necessarily a D vs R issue. Even as we speak, Obama is ramming through a new trade Pacific Trade agreement, that will only exasperate this imbalance. As an example, Walmart buys tons of shit from China. Small businesses in towns where there are Walmarts can not compete with this behemoth, so they go out of business. Then the people in town have to line up for shit Walmart wages, since there are no other places to work, and the cycle continues. Shit wages are too low for American made products, so you need to buy from shit stores like Walmart, so Walmart says, "look, we only sell crap from China because our customers need low priced items" and around and around we go. The big money sees what's going down, so they invest in corporate-run prison systems, as they know that's where a good number of people will wind up. They've also polluted the military with private contractors, so now war and weapons are just another cash cow. Things can be fixed, but only if the slave people rise up against their captors. Last edited by BFT3K; 12-17-2013 at 02:33 PM..

12-17-2013, 10:49 PM	#149
Robbie Leaner, Meaner, Faster Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegas Posts: 20,959	Good lord BTK...lol You are so obsessed with Fox News you bring it up in every discussion. If people don't fall in line with your thoughts that it's the people who are evil and the govt. is great, then you automatically start insulting us. Take it down a notch and join an intelligent discussion without name calling, stupid pictures, and Fox News. I don't know if you noticed it, but the rest of us are giving honest opinions based on what we all have seen in life experience. Dumb pictures and insults don't really belong in a grownup conversation bro. __________________ -Robbie ClaudiaMarie.Com

12-17-2013, 03:37 PM	#118
BFT3K Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Narnia Posts: 10,764

12-17-2013, 04:04 PM	#127
BFT3K Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Narnia Posts: 10,764	Within the next few years corporations will figure out cost-effective ways to reduce the workforce even further. As an example, fast food restaurants will develop automated machines and computers to prepare and deliver your order. The only employees they will need at that time, will be a skeletal crew to make sure the machines are functioning properly. This will happen with or without an increase to the minimum wage, but by increasing the minimum wage first, the corporate owners of this country will say "See, I told you that increasing the minimum wage would result in less employment." As long as the corporations are allowed to prioritize greed over humanity, and no one is there to force a sensible balance, it is game over.

12-17-2013, 09:08 PM	#147
MPGdevil Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,210	I don't think people are mad on people with good ethics who worked hard to become rich. Problem are those who take shortcuts, stepping on a lot of people getting to the top. And there are a lot of those unfortunately. And when you are first at the top, it becomes even easier to fuck over other people.

12-17-2013, 09:39 PM	#148
BFT3K Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Narnia Posts: 10,764	The government does waste a ton of money... on corporate interests... The corporate owners of this country have perfected ways of convincing people to hate each other, rather than the real culprits...

12-18-2013, 02:34 AM	#150
AsianDivaGirlsWebDude Purveyor, Fine Asian Porn Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: San Francisco Bay Area Posts: 38,323	ADG __________________ Asian Diva Girls - Exclusive Photos and Videos Asian Diva Girls Affiliate Program (50% ccBill Revshare)