InfoGuy

50 underappreciated Femjoy/Joymii webmasters

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fris

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WP Stuff

ctggls

I think I saw this product before .... anyway for the moment I'm waiting for a response from Ruben

rockeru

It's the first program I've ever heard that recommends their affiliates to move to other sponsors since they are oversaturating their brand with a few pictures every week.

It's not the small affiliates that are oversaturating the adult industry it's the tubes that they seem to embrace.

Colmike9

It's at least free advertising/branding if an affiliate promotes something and doesn't send sales. If a program thinks that they are oversaturating, then just make your promo tools shorter/lower quality/less tools/rotating/work on your landing pages/research why you aren't selling/etc....

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Oliver Klozov

I received this email from Ruben a few days ago?.

*******
Hello,

My name is Ruben from femjoy.com and joymii.com and I am your new affiliate administrator!

I notice that you have made just a few sales in the last few months and we?d like to see that increase. What can we do to help? We have a bunch of resources for you so I?m here to help.

If I do not hear back from you by next week, we?ll assume you?re no longer interested in promoting, and will close your affiliate account with us. You can re-open it in the future if you chose to start promotion again.

Best regards,

Ruben Salcedo
Affiliate administrator
femjoy.com // joymii.Hello,
*******


Seems to me that maybe Femjoy is sending out this email hoping to close smaller, older affiliate accounts by catching affiliates off guard. Nice way to collect the full sale amount and have an excuse. "?.buy you never replied"


Seriously this is how you treat affiliates?

"...we?ll assume you?re no longer interested in promoting"
How can you assume anything?

Oh and as for my past experience with Femjoy Michael, spineless, powerless and worthless. Just a token figure head that sold himself to Femjoy as being able "talk to the affiliates"


Pulling links?..who would like to take their place?

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Femjoy Michael

This was dealt with in the other 3 threads on this topic. The wording could have been better. Your rebills are safe. And only affiliates who have sent ZERO new sales within the last 6 months, were notified this way. If you are sending us 50k uniques and still not getting a sale, we don't think that is fair to YOU. The likelihood that after we close your account, and your active links send us a sale, is highly unlikely based on past performance right?

We empathize. Please understand, Ruben and I are still just employees. This is a management decision.
Ruben is underserving of any anger or aggression unless it relates specifically to dereliction of duties. Don't hate the man. Hate the company. Management is reading every post here and listening. It must be weighed against a whole set of other factors.

__________________
Our sites:
Femjoy.com - Softcore Nude Art featuring 100% All natural models
Joymii.com - pioneers in cinematic erotica and passion
Promote some of the most-respected, and best-converting sites in the erotica niche (as proven by affiliates who have promoted our sites and others). Sign up at http://cash.femjoy.com

Oliver Klozov

Lets be clear here?.

Ruben's email said NOTHING about "rebills being safe" or "zero sales". It said "few sales"

As you said "The wording could have been better" damn straight it could have been. Look at the shit storm it's produced.

I hope that management is reading these threads so they will understand why sales have dropped off so much in the next few months.



With all that said I owe you an apology for mixing you up with another Michael from Twistys past.

I was incorrect and have not worked with Femjoy Michael in the past.

Please except my apology

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InfoGuy

Wrong. Conversion ratios can swing dramatically with changes in search engine rankings. Pages that Google, Yahoo or Bing love today and are in top 10 positions for good keywords may drop to page 10 tomorrow and vice versa.

Femjoy / Joymii is very short sighted and alienating webmasters with these foolish decisions. Rather than blaming affiliates, they should be focusing on improving products, features, tours, landing pages, banners, galleries, other promo materials, etc.

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"If it was up to me, they would have shot all 30,000 of those country loving shitheads"

malcarada

Just for the information of other webmasters in the same situation, I heard today from Ruben and he basically is not happy that I only made one sale in the last six months and that I am not currently updating the website.

I don't hide that I work on this part time, my last blog update was in 2012 but I have valuable traffic (2000k a day), and proof of traffic quality is that I made a sale in the last months for Femjoy and a couple of other sales for other programs while I work in my other real business.

"Nonetheless, if you are committed to turning things around, I would be happy to work with you. This would mean committing to, and delivering on, a plan to improve your sales. If all things considered you'd rather part amiably, that's ok too."

Summing up the situation, if you don't plan on updating your sites, or there is the risk that one day you will not update any longer you will be better off applying for a different program.

TonyJ

Makes it sound like this is your fault that they arn't converting.

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TheMaster

@Michael I'm writing you an e-mail, I can not believe this Ruben's rudeness in another follow up mail

I wasn't rude to him, didn't come on GFY to make drama when I received that first e-mail, although I was furious, but now this, it's unacceptable

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TheMaster

that's funny, since in a Femjoy e-mail from Oct 30, 2013 (http://ymlp.com/zZuJxT) says the following

to me that seems a realistic example, Ruben's "1:5000 sucks", does not, it's not the year 2007

I like Femjoy, but this Ruben or what he is made to do, is quickly ruining their image

have him do something useful like get down pirated content on filehosts, torrens and tubes

if the embedded videos are costing you too much money in bandwidth dive into your statistics see which domains are using up a lot of views and never send sales, probably one of those tube sites with 15 ads, from the traffic networks, around the video and no banners to Femjoy

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DigitalPimp

I doubt I have got any new sales in the last 6 months but sent a ton before that many of which still rebill. Would you please clarify that rebills such as mine are safe or does one need to send X number of sales within X number of days to keep getting paid for rebills?

TheMaster

btw that doesn't apply to me and I still got that mail from Ruben

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Magnetron

1:5000 is unacceptable.

However, 1:1000 is very realistic with similar "lesser" sites and the same traffic.

Like I said earlier, they need to limit how much of their content can be given away per affiliate site, how many samples they make available to affiliates and refrain from helping using user uploaded tubes lure SE traffic away from affiliate sites.

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TheMaster

I guess those sites don't have much of a piracy problem

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Magnetron

And I just made a Joymii sale.

That brings me down to 1:1124 for the last 6 months.

LOL

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Magnetron

Oh, I'm sure it is proportionately the same.

What they certainly don't have is lengthy clips on tube channels.

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Magnetron

When a surfer does a search for Femjoy or Joymii samples that will sway him into becoming a buyer, he is more likely to end up at a FemjoyCash tube channel and not an affiliate site.

Get rid of the channels and affiliates with have better conversion rates.

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malcarada

Femjoy has been very clear that they don't want webmnasters to waste their traffic on their program unless they make sales and and update their sites.

To help Femjoy and webmasters, I am adding a few CCBill sponsors similar to them where not having sales will not have you removed from the program:

• EvasGarden

• MC-Nudes

• PhotoDromm

TheMaster

lol EvasGarden has been offline for a while now

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malcarada

I wasn't aware of this obviously, I checked the website and I saw it down but I thought it was a temporary glitch. I have some link erasing to do...

Thank you for the warning TheMaster

TheMaster

no problem, think they've been down for months

of course no warning from them

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arock10

this thread is pretty epic

The sponsor controls the content, the tours, the prejoin pages, the join pages/biller selections and yet they are giving affiliates shit for not selling.

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alias

I don't promote these fuckwads.

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PMProducoes

I bet they are ALIENS!
Aliens control everything....

ctggls

1. I though Michael was somehow more in the upper management and maybe having the powers to take some decisions.

2. I don't see how, for the upper management/owner of the Femjoy/Joymii program is a bad thing that an affiliate like me sends decent traffic from legal content (pics) can affect their brand?

3. The same traffic, from the same blog , converts to programs like watch4beauty and met-art at a rate 1:2500 - 1:3000 .

4. The content I receive via newsletters is about 2 - 3 years old. I've given at least one example of this. It seems that Michael and Ruben keep avoiding addressing this issue.

5. The problem is not pulling links but also the content because If I don't have a legal affiliate agreement with Femjoy/Joymii and I have content on my site that I might get a DMCA complaint.

6. It seems that Femjoy/Joymii just wants to take all the money from smaller affiliates. Let's say you still have re-bills but have not sent a new in the past few months - they terminate the account and keep the money.
If they do this to let's say 1000 affiliates and each one brings around $20 in rebills , that's $20000 from a single email without doing too much...

ctggls

Quick example of old content:

Right now, Jan 28, 2014 on the first page of Femjoy there is a video "Josephine - Private Time" that is listed on January 18 , 2014.

My blog is all about pics - no videos - and Josephine is one of my favorite models from Femjoy because of her nice round boobs.

I click on the model to see more set cards: http://femjoy.com/models/josephine

Scroll down and you'll see that the photos for "Josephine - Private Time" was released on January 12 , 2013 THAT IS MORE THAN A YEAR AGO !

It's hard to believe that you took the photos a year ago and the video just a few days ago.

I think that a surfer/possible buyer will quickly realize that the content is old. I don't have an account with them but If I had one a year ago and keep visiting the site weekly for updates I would realize quickly that there is little new content.

Just my opinion...

malcarada

My opinion, and I have told this to Ruben in my last email, is that Femjoy should suspend all webmasters giving away too much content for free, these people are hurting everybody, Femjoy, and other affiliates sales.

I have also PM michael one website giving Femjoy downloads for free and I am pretty certain that if I were about to buy a membership and I came across that site I would change my mind and download it for free.

I fully support giving free SAMPLES, but full videos and full high res photos hurts the business. People wanting to see Femjoy models should understand that the only way to do that is by joining the site and right now there is too much stuff around to convince people to pay for it.

And suspending affiliates for no sales or not updating it is just Femjoy way of saying that you have to work on this full time and dedicated to their brand, only somebody stupid would work with a single sponsor and risk having the account suspended or the sponsor going out of business like EvasGarden.

It doesn't seem right they can suspend your account because you only bring a couple sales a year and overlook that you did great part of the work, pay for your domain, hosting, add links and galleries and all the promotion which is the hardest part. Maybe $200 a year is nothing for Femjoy but it is something for me.

But anyway, if they want it this way, so lets be it, just make sure others are aware before signing up.

ctggls

Just got this from Ruben

Well, how could I promote the program further if there will always be some sort of "we don't like you , we'll terminate your account"?

I removed all my posts with femjoy today and I really hope that others do the same...

If 2014 will be hard year in adult it is because sponsors are doing the wrong moves. I personally submit galleries, sell traffic, buy traffic from google and I'm doing quite fine , not complaining.
It's much easier to sit in front of the PC posting pics and doing light work that working in offline business - I have so I know.

Sponsors like femjoy who think that chaching only the big fishes is what matters really got it wrong - I had this experience with my offline business.
You will remove all your small affiliates and when the big guys decided to promote someone else and put Femjoy aside then let's see who will make the sales!

Magnetron

My lack of sales had much to do with a long dry spell of quality traffic that has finally broken. So, my plan is to stay the course. At least until I hear horror stories about rebills being prematurely cut off. Then I walk the plank.

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DigitalPimp

Well I guess that answers my question about affiliates not getting paid for rebills if one does not have X number of sales within X number of days. Now if we could only find out the value of both X's.

TheMaster

maybe they should send this guy to manner school, never seen anyone in affiliate management be so abrasive, especially for someone who doesn't even seem to know the basics of how ccbill works

don't they get if they keep this up, not much will be left of their reputation

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TheDA

You know what, in total over the past 14 months I've sent a healthy amount of sales to them, high nnn. These are split across probably 40 or 5 accounts that I've bought over the years.

I know only too well how easy it is for sites to lose out in the SERPS etc and sales go to shit, so if that happens tomorrow then they are going to cut me off in 6 months time?

Fuck that shit, time to phase them out and fill some spots with sponsors that know what they are doing.

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TheMaster

I think this would offend people less if some smarts were used, and not such a blanket rule as conversion ratio

you have to take into account the type of traffic it is & resources it uses:
tubes gives more content away than picture galleries
embedded vs self hosted when it comes to resources
picture galleries give more away than sites just posting a cover or posts on a pinboard
even less content is given away if it's just a text link, for instance on a model profile that lists all the sites the model posed for

in those last two cases even if the conversion is shitty, it didn't over expose your content

again why not look at referrer stats and target domains that are converting badly or cost you resources instead of targeting a whole affiliate account

I get that it's tough times for paysites, but I think more targeted solutions are better & of course take down pirated content

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TheMaster

Let me come to Ruben's defense on this point (still can't stand the guy & hope never to be contacted by him again), this is what he wrote me

so I guess they block your ccbill id cookie, while still keeping your account active?

however this brings up an interesting point in general: can sponsors keep a ccbill account active, but block you specific ID, would you as an affiliate have any way of knowing this? And do we know sponsors aren't doing this as we speak? I'm not saying anyone is doing this, I'm just asking the question if it's possible, going of what Ruben wrote to me

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Femjoy Michael

Would you say your site(s) is perfect and does not require any changes for the next 20 years?

The moment you say your site does not need work, that's the moment your competitors swoop in and kill you. This is the internet - you don't stop optimizing. That's what we are saying to our affiliates. If you were an affiliate of ours, you would receive our newsletters where we announce changes and improvements on a regular basis. We encourage our affiliates to do the same.

I understand your opinion jmc. Because you are not one of our affiliates, you are only getting one side of this conversation right?

Over the past year, I've sent out dozens of emails to struggling affiliates, asking them how we could help. I've sent a few newsletters too. Only about 3 affiliates replied. The three who have replied, I took the time to go over their websites to make suggestions on how to make improvements that would not only affect their promotions to us, but their business overall. We've been very open to struggling affiliates. They were invited to contact us at any time.

A lot of affiliates promote multiple programs, or doing this part-time, and may not have the resources to devote to making the necessary improvements. We understand that.

__________________
Our sites:
Femjoy.com - Softcore Nude Art featuring 100% All natural models
Joymii.com - pioneers in cinematic erotica and passion
Promote some of the most-respected, and best-converting sites in the erotica niche (as proven by affiliates who have promoted our sites and others). Sign up at http://cash.femjoy.com

Femjoy Michael

Yes, sponsors can suspend or block your account of new sales. We do it when affiliates violate our terms or do something really bad like abuse our trademarks.

Yes, sponsors are notified that their account has been blocked from future sales, unless the sponsor is managing with their own software. Then it is up to the sponsors to dutifully notify the affiliates.

__________________
Our sites:
Femjoy.com - Softcore Nude Art featuring 100% All natural models
Joymii.com - pioneers in cinematic erotica and passion
Promote some of the most-respected, and best-converting sites in the erotica niche (as proven by affiliates who have promoted our sites and others). Sign up at http://cash.femjoy.com

TheMaster

thanks for the answer Michael was getting nightmares of sponsors turning it on and off and affiliates not being notified about this. reminded me of that situation a few years back where a couple of sponsors limited the amount of rebills for affiliates, while claiming they were unlimited, since then I always double check in ccbill program info

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DigitalPimp

According to Ruben's email above, it appears it is also done if an affiliate does not improve their sales right? It would be helpful to your program and affiliates if affiliates knew what level of sales activity they needed to maintain in order to prevent new sales from being blocked.

I assume you mean affiliates are notified, if so good to know.

ctggls

I think Femjoy does not want to bring no content so they don't want to over expose the very old one )) . This way surfers will think that everything is brand new ))

ctggls

Over the past year, I've sent out dozens of emails to struggling affiliates, asking them how we could help. I've sent a few newsletters too. Only about 3 affiliates replied. The three who have replied, I took the time to go over their websites to make suggestions on how to make improvements that would not only affect their promotions to us, but their business overall. We've been very open to struggling affiliates. They were invited to contact us at any time.

A lot of affiliates promote multiple programs, or doing this part-time, and may not have the resources to devote to making the necessary improvements. We understand that.[/QUOTE]

MICHAEL please give me your email . I want to contact you so I can show you my site and see what would you improve in respect to promoting Femjoy program.

It would not bother me to make new sales so let's give this a try.

I don't want to contact Ruben because he's like a full-of-crap politician . Was he in some sort of governmental institution before coming to Femjoy? His language sure sound like a public employee.

Femjoy Michael

michael [at] femjoy.com

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Our sites:
Femjoy.com - Softcore Nude Art featuring 100% All natural models
Joymii.com - pioneers in cinematic erotica and passion
Promote some of the most-respected, and best-converting sites in the erotica niche (as proven by affiliates who have promoted our sites and others). Sign up at http://cash.femjoy.com

Forkbeard

Wow. Talk about taking to the internet to scream "STAY AWAY FROM OUR SHITTY PROGRAM!"

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DTK

I'm having a real WTF moment right now.

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Forkbeard

Allow me to amplify on that.

I just checked my CCbill. I have (or maybe "had", who knows?) a Femjoy account, that dates to 2007. Looks like I've made 15 sales with them and had 60 rebills, the last of which died in 2011. I haven't actively promoted them in years. My all time conversion ratio with them is around 1:4300 on about 65k clicks. In the last calendar year I've sent them around 4k clicks from the ancient blog posts, no sales. Perhaps I'm due for a sale in 2014?

So, here's the unique twist. I signed up via CCbill, back in the day, but I have no record of ever having signed up for the separate Joycash account that harvests the email address they are now using to communicate with underperforming webmasters. They've got no way to email me. Looking at the Wayback Machine, there's no record that the Joycash site even existed before 2008: http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://cash.femjoy.com. And if you look at the 2008 version of the site it's not clear whether there was a signup separate from your CCBill account back then; it looks like there was not. (But in those days, the Wayback Machine didn't always capture scripts properly, so it's hard to be sure.)

I certainly haven't sent a sale in the last six months, and I certainly haven't heard from Rueben. (Not his fault, he doesn't have my email.) Has FemJoy now set some sort of flag on my account that lets them silently steal my traffic but refuses to credit me for sales? There's nothing that shows in my CCbill account, but it sounds like perhaps they aren't telling CCbill when they do this. Which is pretty shitty if true. There *is* a mechanism for deactivating an affiliate account in a way that shows up in the affiliate's CCbill account, but it doesn't sound like that's what they are doing. (At least that would be honest.)

There's no reason for them not to happily accept my little trickle of ancient blog post traffic and credit me for sales if and when they happen. Costs them nothing, costs me nothing, is good business all around. And even today, if I saw a Femjoy picture on a Tumblr somewhere and liked it, my reflex (before reading this thread) would have been to reblog it with an affiliate link on one of my many blogs. I do this near-daily, using any of dozens of almost-moribund affiliate programs. It generates no great wealth but it keeps the lights on. Where's the harm in that?

But what this thread and the quoted emails has done is destroyed all trust. Now, I'm not clear whether my account is being properly credited, so why would I ever trust this sponsor enough to promote them in future? They've made it very clear that they don't value the fundamental premise of the revshare affiliate bargain, which is that links and traffic will be credited (and rebills paid) for as long as the affiliate promotion and/or the program itself might last. A program owner who does not understand and honor that bargain is worthless to affiliates.

Trust is the most precious commodity an affiliate program owner can have with his affiliates. It's easily destroyed. ANY email threatening to terminate an affiliate account that has an old installed base of promotional material is destructive of that trust, it doesn't matter what the reason might be. And Michael's posts here have done NOTHING to restore that trust. Simplest translation of "This is a management decision" is "our bosses are crooks who have decided not to honor the traffic from your old promotional efforts." There's no way to repair that disclosure once it's out there.

If I built a bunch of promotional materials in 2008, those work for both of us, forever. A sponsor who even HINTS at the possibility that they might come along later and say "sorry, if you're not working hard for us this week, we won't honor your old work" is a sponsor whom nobody should promote. And now that it appears they may be doing this without even notifying the oldest affiliates, for whom they've never had emails? As I said, it destroys the necessary trust. There are plenty of sponsors out there who are happy to have (and credit) the traffic from my ancient blog posts.

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malcarada

I agree with what you mentioned above.

The affiliate works very hard one year producing a few sales and the next year for whatever reason, illness, travelling, etc, you can not work any longer for Femjoy or can only work part time and they go and close your account and all your work, links, galleries are suddenly gone up in smoke.

If you no longer make sales it might not seem a huge amount, but that is not the point, traffic could rebound, sales can happen even with small traffic and a single customer with rebills can be as much as $500 to you, you would lose thousands of dollars in sales over the years.

You pay for your own domains, hosting and everything. Femjoy will not insure you or pay any kind of holidays or benefit other than a percentage of any sale you make, and now they come along as if you were a Femjoy employee that costs them lots of money and tell you to work harder, full time and better or you are out of the door.

I think that smaller bloggers know what to do, and Femjoy is fine with that. The decisive question will be if the big whale sites are going to agree with Femjoy's new terms and conditions. I can also see that if Femjoy loses half their affiliates, it will be easier to make sales for the remaining, but the risk of being kicked out for not selling is simply too high and Femjoy isn't going to be found by the surfers that easily.

ctggls

Email sent

ctggls

Ok so I've sent en email to Michael . I will wait for his feedback , try to follow his possible advice (if any) and send maybe 15k of traffic over a period of a month. See what happens