Cop shoots firefighter thoughts? (vid)

[Pipecrew]

http://www.statter911.com/2014/02/25...-caught-video/

[sperbonzo]

There are many MANY unjustified shootings by police in the US every year, (and I'm VERY angered by the out-of-control activities and militarization of the police over the last 15 to 20 years). This is not one of them though. This one was justified IMHO.





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[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

There are many MANY unjustified shootings by police in the US every year, (and I'm VERY angered by the out-of-control activities and militarization of the police over the last 15 to 20 years). This is not one of them though. This one was justified IMHO.





.

justified? the dude is moonlighting as a security guard, and chased the firefighter for blocks till he 'caught up with him', then was 'afraid for his life'

seriously?

justified?

why is hotel security supposed to be hunting people who are arguing with cab drivers?

[blackmonsters]

If the stupid people watching would have STFU instead of distracting the cop, then maybe
the cop would have won the fight without shooting.

The cop gets flipped because he was trying to speak to the bystanders.

Those people are idiots. The cop was not beating the guy, just trying to get the cuffs on.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by Pipecrew

http://www.statter911.com/2014/02/25...-caught-video/

I didn't see anyone getting shot on the phone vid

[sperbonzo]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

justified? the dude is moonlighting as a security guard, and chased the firefighter for blocks till he 'caught up with him', then was 'afraid for his life'

seriously?

justified?

why is hotel security supposed to be hunting people who are arguing with cab drivers?

Like I have said many times, I think that US police are out of control these days.... but having said that, there is the following in this case:

First of all, off duty or not, a sworn peace officer is still a sworn peace officer, even if he happens to be standing around eating a hot dog, or whatever.

Secondly, if there was an physical altercation with the fire fighter and the cab driver, then as a sworn peace officer, it is his right, and duty to get involved.

Thirdly, if he steps in, and identifies himself, and one of the people fighting takes off and runs, then he has every right to chase that person down. He has no idea why they are running, maybe they just committed a murder, he doesn't know, and he has the right to detain that person in order to find out.

Fourthly, when he catches up to him, and then tries to restrain him with handcuffs, and the suspect overpowers him and starts hitting him in the head when he is down, this is a VERY dangerous situation for the officer. If the guy succeeds in knocking him out, there is no stopping him from taking the officer's weapon and using it on the officer and other people. At that point, the officer had a right to use deadly force to stop the suspect.


AGAIN, I think that the police these days are more about protecting themselves rather than the community, and the shooting of people, their dogs, etc... the serving of no-knock SWAT type warrants for everything under the sun, etc... the amount of military equipment being issued to local police, etc... are all things that are really bad and out of control.... But in this instance, the guy was beating on a police officer who was all alone, and I would have done the same thing in the officers place.



.


.

[WDF]

Drunk, sober, or somewhere in between if you physically fight with a cop you are going to get tazed or shot.

[Jman]

The reason they put firefighter in the article title is absurd, just to create some hype.... How did the cop know this was a firefighter???

Assaulting a guy with a gun is STUPID and it's asking to get shot.

No surprise here.

[MrBottomTooth]

They did not show what happened before the fight took place. Apparently the firefighter was just walking down the street eating some skittles and drinking an iced tea.

Maybe the cop should have minded his own business when he was off duty. Reminds me of a local cop that was off duty and chased down a car that he seen speeding. Seriously, speeding. You're off the clock asshole, quit trying to be Officer Joe Friday.

Having said that, you've got to be pretty stupid or drunk to get into a fist fight with a guy with a gun on his belt.

[Sly]

Imagine the headlines if the cop did nothing, as suggested, and the "firefighter" hurt someone... "why didn't the cop help?!"

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

Like I have said many times, I think that US police are out of control these days.... but having said that, there is the following in this case:

First of all, off duty or not, a sworn peace officer is still a sworn peace officer, even if he happens to be standing around eating a hot dog, or whatever.

Secondly, if there was an physical altercation with the fire fighter and the cab driver, then as a sworn peace officer, it is his right, and duty to get involved.

Thirdly, if he steps in, and identifies himself, and one of the people fighting takes off and runs, then he has every right to chase that person down. He has no idea why they are running, maybe they just committed a murder, he doesn't know, and he has the right to detain that person in order to find out.

Fourthly, when he catches up to him, and then tries to restrain him with handcuffs, and the suspect overpowers him and starts hitting him in the head when he is down, this is a VERY dangerous situation for the officer. If the guy succeeds in knocking him out, there is no stopping him from taking the officer's weapon and using it on the officer and other people. At that point, the officer had a right to use deadly force to stop the suspect.


AGAIN, I think that the police these days are more about protecting themselves rather than the community, and the shooting of people, their dogs, etc... the serving of no-knock SWAT type warrants for everything under the sun, etc... the amount of military equipment being issued to local police, etc... are all things that are really bad and out of control.... But in this instance, the guy was beating on a police officer who was all alone, and I would have done the same thing in the officers place.



.


.

sounds all justified and makes sense.

My apologies.

The next time a person tries to run me down with a gun in their hand, i suppose ill just have to assume they are a police officer

in fact, anyone who shows any aggressiveness to me

ill have to just go into the fetal position till i figure out if they are a police officer.

or, get shot, and have a bunch of people talk about 'how justified' my cold blooded murder was

[MrBottomTooth]

Originally Posted by Sly

Imagine the headlines if the cop did nothing, as suggested, and the "firefighter" hurt someone... "why didn't the cop help?!"

He was working at a hotel in a second job as a security guard. The proper thing to do would have been to call the police.

[Tom_PM]

How many skittles were found on him, and was there any iced tea?

[PR_Glen]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

sounds all justified and makes sense.

My apologies.

The next time a person tries to run me down with a gun in their hand, i suppose ill just have to assume they are a police officer

in fact, anyone who shows any aggressiveness to me

ill have to just go into the fetal position till i figure out if they are a police officer.

or, get shot, and have a bunch of people talk about 'how justified' my cold blooded murder was

so now your are assuming he didn't identify himself as a police officer? i don't think so...

[baddog]

Originally Posted by PR_Glen

so now your are assuming he didn't identify himself as a police officer? i don't think so...

_Dick_ isn't very smart

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by PR_Glen

so now your are assuming he didn't identify himself as a police officer? i don't think so...

Originally Posted by baddog

_Dick_ isn't very smart

aww look at you both

so you're assuming the firefighter tried to run from a police officer?

[Matt 26z]

If the cop wasn't strong enough to take this guy down he should have used non lethal force before it turned into a serious wrestling match.

[stickyfingerz]

The reason the victim fought back was the hard knee to the head with his face on the ground. The security guard / cop should of stepped away. The man had no weapon. He could of stood to the side with his taser drawn till backup arrived.

The guy got in the fight due to the cab driver throwing change at his newlywed wife still in her wedding dress. Pretty hard not to fight back against anyone putting all their weight into a knee to the side of your head like the "cop" did.

[brassmonkey]

Originally Posted by Pipecrew

http://www.statter911.com/2014/02/25...-caught-video/

the key words are off duty firefighter

[PornDude]

I need to say the cop was right.

[stickyfingerz]

Originally Posted by PikaPoka

I need to say the cop was right.

Did you mean to say kneed? lol

[theking]

Originally Posted by MrBottomTooth

He was working at a hotel in a second job as a security guard. The proper thing to do would have been to call the police.

He was the police...in most if not all states...an officer is an officer 24/7...and technically is never off duty.

[seeric]

Unless anyone else has been through two police academies, and has 5 years as a peace officer, let me make a comment here.

1) If the officer had probable cause and arrest powers, he was legally within his powers to arrest the citizen.

+

2) During the course of that arrest, the officer felt his life or the lives of others were at risk, he is within his powers to affect force necessary to save his life of the lives of others, up to and including deadly force.

I could not see if he had a taser on his belt or not, but the conditions of the scene are also something that will play a part.

1) It looked dark and later in the night.
2) He was alone.
3) The subject was potentially drunk or under the influence of a controlled substance.

If he was genuinely afraid for his life, and you could see him taking a few solid shots to the face, you're looking at a justified shooting folks.

He will walk.

Not saying it's right.

When you're being arrested, you go with them. If they illegally detain you, file a lawsuit and make some money. There is never a situation where you fight someone with arrest powers.

Get them in court. It's better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6.

Sad that they guy died. Had he not, he would be facing felony assault charges and end up going to jail, even if he was innocent of the initial crime that the officer attempted to detain him for.

Don't shoot the messenger, I know the law. Many here do not.

Michael, I believe that you were an officer in Florida at one time, so you also know.


**Disclaimer: I only watched the video. After reading some of the backstory. The subject was being placed under arrest for being involved in a fight. So you have a violent crime there that the stop is based on. (Assuming that is what happened, I was not there).

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by seeric

Unless anyone else has been through two police academies, and has 5 years as a peace officer, let me make a comment here.

1) If the officer had probable cause and arrest powers, he was legally within his powers to arrest the citizen.

+

2) During the course of that arrest, the officer felt his life or the lives of others were at risk, he is within his powers to affect force necessary to save his life of the lives of others, up to and including deadly force.

I could not see if he had a taser on his belt or not, but the conditions of the scene are also something that will play a part.

1) It looked dark and later in the night.
2) He was alone.
3) The subject was potentially drunk or under the influence of a controlled substance.

If he was genuinely afraid for his life, and you could see him taking a few solid shots to the face, you're looking at a justified shooting folks.

He will walk.

Not saying it's right.

When you're being arrested, you go with them. If they illegally detain you, file a lawsuit and make some money. There is never a situation where you fight someone with arrest powers.

Get them in court. It's better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6.

Sad that they guy died. Had he not, he would be facing felony assault charges and end up going to jail, even if he was innocent of the initial crime that the officer attempted to detain him for.

Don't shoot the messenger, I know the law. Many here do not.

Michael, I believe that you were an officer in Florida at one time, so you also know.

arrested by a security guard

arrested by a plainclothes

arrested by anyone

we get it

[seeric]

Yup, if you have powers of arrest, it doesn't matter who it is.



He also needs to tell the guy that he's being placed under arrest. I couldn't hear that.

[_Richard_]

do we have to? all the peace-security-officer needs to do is say he did

[dyna mo]

Kansas City Cop Don Hubbard Cleared by Grand Jury In Shooting Death


http://www.thisis50.com/profiles/blo...th-of-newlywed

[brassmonkey]

never trust the police ever

[MrBottomTooth]

Originally Posted by theking

He was the police...in most if not all states...an officer is an officer 24/7...and technically is never off duty.

I guess he better start carrying his radio around with him all the time so he can call for backup instead of begging laughing strangers to help him out of the shit he gets himself into by being Johnny Law 24/7.

[SBJ]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

arrested by a security guard

arrested by a plainclothes

arrested by anyone

we get it

Did you watch the video? He is clearly in police uniform. As it has been stated sometime off duty police officers take security jobs and wear their uniforms. and like others said a off duty cop is never truly off duty and is required to intervene when ha sees a law being broken.

The only real crime here was the fucking stupid people just filming it rather than helping him or calling 911. The drunk asshole would still be alive if the guy videotaping dialed 911.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by SBJ

Did you watch the video? He is clearly in police uniform. As it has been stated sometime off duty police officers take security jobs and wear their uniforms. and like others said a off duty cop is never truly off duty and is required to intervene when ha sees a law being broken.

The only real crime here was the fucking stupid people just filming it rather than helping him or calling 911. The drunk asshole would still be alive if the guy videotaping dialed 911.

yes i was hoping someone would call me out on that

so you have a moonlighting police officer, wearing his uniform

who is paying for that time? is he being paid by the hotel AND the city?

What do we call it when a police officer takes money from businesses for 'protection', while on the city payroll?

it's an old concept

[Sunny Day]

The officer was not on the KCPD payroll at the time. He was working a second job, doing security while in uniform. A common practice all across the US.

He only chased him about the length of a football field, not even that far.

He was clearly trying to defend himself from a fighting drunk, who as a fireman had good physical strength.

The reason "Firefighter" is in the article, the original story mentions the fact, that KC police officers and KC firefighters have not been on the friendliest of terms for years. He didn't know the guy was a firefighter until later.

[mineistaken]

Did not read, but any of them were black?
If so - another one was racist.

[Sunny Day]

Originally Posted by mineistaken

Did not read, but any of them were black?
If so - another one was racist.

Both White. Not sure about the cab driver.

[SBJ]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

Kansas City Cop Don Hubbard Cleared by Grand Jury In Shooting Death


http://www.thisis50.com/profiles/blo...th-of-newlywed

from this article..

Bruno's blood-alcohol content was .21, according to his autopsy. You are considered legally intoxicated at .08.

WOW one does not simply get .21 drunk unless he has 12-16+ drinks that night..(based on the big size of the guy). Who gets that drunk on their wedding night? I'm sure if you look at his past history this guy has a arrest or at least complaints of him getting belligerently drunk and abusive before this.

[JustDaveXxx]

Originally Posted by Matt 26z

If the cop wasn't strong enough to take this guy down he should have used non lethal force before it turned into a serious wrestling match.

He did use non-Leathal force. In the way of wrestling him down. It obviously didn't work.

Originally Posted by stickyfingerz

The reason the victim fought back was the hard knee to the head with his face on the ground. The security guard / cop should of stepped away. The man had no weapon. He could of stood to the side with his taser drawn till backup arrived.

The guy got in the fight due to the cab driver throwing change at his newlywed wife still in her wedding dress. Pretty hard not to fight back against anyone putting all their weight into a knee to the side of your head like the "cop" did.

Should have, would have, could have...


We see non-Leathal force not work. What do you think he is suppose to do while getting pummeled in the face and head? Reach for a taser that he may not be able to reach and no guarantees that it will work at close distances?


We see a trained cop on his back getting hit 2 times in the face by a man who is obviously stronger and now on top of the cop. The once subdued Perpetrator has now become the lethal aggressor. What could have happened if The cop didn't fire his gun in self defense?


Get hit more? Get beaten retarded? (I have seen that happen), Or even worse; could have been disarmed and shot by his own gun. Which is a very real situation.



I have worked with LAPD and LA County Sheriffs teaching BJJ 15 years ago when they 1st started incorporating BJJ in their hand to hand combat tactics. I have personally done drills with rubber guns, gun belts and used mock aggressors.


This is back before UFC was big during a time when cops thought they couldn't be taken down and didn't think their guns could be stripped away from them.


Guess what? Me and my instructor Rigan Machado and his brothers figured out when we are within a range of 3 feet from the police officers and their guns holstered, we were able to take them down, subdue them, disarm them and actual put the guns to there heads and the officer was not able to get us off.


We did not just do this once, we did this to 40+ people one after the other with the officers knowing what we were able to do.


Horrified, they added BJJ to their hand to hand combat tactics. And after experiencing our demonstrations the rules LASD came up with was: If an aggressor knowingly attacks an identified officer of the law and demonstrates no respect for the law and the officers that are sworn to uphold it, and if the aggressors further escalates the assault by taking the officer down to the ground, the aggressor at this point has demonstrated his bad intentions, putting the officer in a position to fear for his life. Thus limiting his options of non-leathal force and forcing him to go to the next step to preserve his own life... lethal force.


Solution when an aggressor takes you to the ground: Get your ground bearings and Shoot that fucker!!


Every cop has trained every fucked up ground and weapon situation, with a full knowledge on what the consequences are if you hesitate or make a mistake.



Not trying to be a know it all dick, but If you have not been there, you can't judge.
Sad situation all the way around, but justified.


Read this: and after that Google: 'Cops shot by their own guns"

http://www.policeone.com/close-quart...-R-I-Policies/


Just Dave

[SBJ]

Originally Posted by JustDaveXxx

He did use non-Leathal force. In the way of wrestling him down. It obviously didn't work.





We see non-Leathal force not work. What do you think he is suppose to do while getting pummeled in the face and head? Reach for a taser that he may not be able to reach and no guarantees that it will work at close distances?


We see a trained cop on his back getting hit 2 times in the face by a man who is obviously stronger and now on top of the cop. The once subdued Perpetrator has now become the lethal aggressor. What could have happened if The cop didn't fire his gun in self defense?


Get hit more? Get beaten retarded? (I have seen that happen), Or even worse; could have been disarmed and shot by his own gun. Which is a very real situation.



Just Dave

yup this is not a case like zimmerman who was a murderer. This guy was getting actually murdered by this drunk guy. Take a look at this photo of the cop after the incident. Notice unlike zimmerman's few scratches this guy is really fucked up


If the hotlink doesn't work it's here on this page

also from that page

Because he was working off duty, Hubbard was not assigned a Taser.

[Rochard]

We GFY is cool with Zimmerman and cool with the guy in Florida who shot and killed a kid for playing music too loud, but not when a cop does it. I see.

[SomeCreep]

Self defense. Once you attack a cop, they have the right to use lethal force to protect themselves. This is the law in every state.

[PornoMonster]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

yes i was hoping someone would call me out on that

so you have a moonlighting police officer, wearing his uniform

who is paying for that time? is he being paid by the hotel AND the city?

What do we call it when a police officer takes money from businesses for 'protection', while on the city payroll?

it's an old concept

Actually in my City, the place of busines that hires a police offer for security, pays the Police Station (city) X amount per hour (which is higher than the officers pay), and the officer gets the pay rate according to what he was told he would be paid for the job.

The City, Makes Money!

[Adam-clickpapa]

i hate cops as much as i admire firefighters. btw the firefighter was not on duty, and he was agressive. but using a gun doesn't mean you have to kill someone, the policeman could have shot him on the leg or something.

[Lykos]

Hmmm questionable indeed... he shouldn't hit him wtf... both of them were too agressive

[Sly]

Originally Posted by steve-clickpapa

i hate cops as much as i admire firefighters. btw the firefighter was not on duty, and he was agressive. but using a gun doesn't mean you have to kill someone, the policeman could have shot him on the leg or something.

I always like the "shoot him in the leg" argument.

[blackmonsters]

Originally Posted by Rochard

We GFY is cool with Zimmerman and cool with the guy in Florida who shot and killed a kid for playing music too loud, but not when a cop does it. I see.

It's pretty obvious that this cop didn't fear enough for his life because the suspect wasn't black enough.

[CDSmith]

Originally Posted by SomeCreep

Self defense. Once you attack a cop, they have the right to use lethal force to protect themselves. This is the law in every state.

Isn't it interesting that that's true for cops, but for the rest of us average citizens when faced with some armed dangerous person breaking into our homes putting our family at potentially grave risk, if we so much as swing a baseball bat at the perp the cops come and charge US with a crime?

It's a strange and crazy world we live in.

[Sly]

Originally Posted by CDSmith

Isn't it interesting that that's true for cops, but for the rest of us average citizens when faced with some armed dangerous person breaking into our homes putting our family at potentially grave risk, if we so much as swing a baseball bat at the perp the cops come and charge US with a crime?

It's a strange and crazy world we live in.

Depends on the State. Seems more and more States are becoming Castle friendly.

[BV]

Originally Posted by CDSmith

Isn't it interesting that that's true for cops, but for the rest of us average citizens when faced with some armed dangerous person breaking into our homes putting our family at potentially grave risk, if we so much as swing a baseball bat at the perp the cops come and charge US with a crime?

It's a strange and crazy world we live in.

I don't know of anywhere in the US that if a person armed with a gun broke into a residence (with people inside) that the residents could not use force to protect themselves if their lives were in danger.

Too much misinformation in this thread.