a question for anti gun nuts - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

Nomarh · 06-07-2014, 10:01 AM

50 guns don't kill people

directfiesta · 06-07-2014, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuckOnThis

Yep, kind of funny though whenever some drunk plows into a bus and kills 10 people you don't get a group of people saying "see? laws don't work, get rid of drunk driving laws".

true, but if all would be drunk ..... the good drunk could have taken the bad drunk out !

NaughtyVisions · 06-07-2014, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDSmith

Gun argument thread #10,867.

I bet if we all keep hammering away at it we can solve the problem once and for all right here on GFY.

Maybe by Christmas.

Actually, it's quite simple. The problem lies in our culture as Americans. As far as we've advanced with equal rights and other things, we've become extremely intolerant. People have no common courtesy for others, they have no respect for others. Most have a sense that they are the only person who matters, they want what they want, and fuck anyone else.

Because of that, people lash out at others. Those who have access to guns use them. I'm not just referring to the rash of mass shootings. There was a local story here in PA from a few months ago. Apparently, some guy driving on Interstate 81 did something that pissed another driving off. Rather than simply flipping him the bird and yelling obscenities at him (or better yet, "letting it go," the offended driver proceeded to play road games with the first driver. While the first driver called 911, the second driver pulled out a gun and shot the first driver, as they were driving at speeds of 65mph. The first driver was killed, leaving behind a wife and young child. All over a driving foul. Simply because the second driver lashed out and didn't think about anyone but how pissed off he was. Fuck that this guy could have a family, fuck that this guy had every right to live. But I'm sure the shooter feels better now that the first guy won't switch lanes without signaling, or drive in the passing lane instead of moving over.

Things like this are becoming more and more common place. And even without guys, people who feel they get slighted are so self-centered, they'll beat someone to death over the dumbest shit.

I read an article the other day that a guy shot a cab driver because he thought the cabbie to a longer route to charge the passenger more money.

Our culture needs to change. And I don't blame this on violent movies, video games, music, etc. I'm a product of all of that. But what I had, that many in this country are lacking, is a proper upbringing. My parents instilled in me at an early age the difference between right and wrong, fantasy and reality. I was also taught respect. Respect for other people is something that is seriously lacking in today's America. When I went out walking somewhere as a kid, I didn't cut through my neighbor's yard as a shortcut without permission from the neighbor. I never leaned on a stranger's car when chatting with someone in a parking lot (or my dad's car for that matter).

All of this is what is lacking in our culture. We've become a society of "me first, it's mine, I don't care about anyone other than myself" people. Nobody respects anyone anymore. It's quite sad.

And because of this mentality in our society (not even touching on the mental health issues), people like me are afraid to speak up when someone does something disrespectful (like the old bitch who cut in line in front of me at A.C. Moore the other day when I was trying to pick up something for my son's last school project), because who knows when some fucking asshole who can't think or behave rationally will just pull out a gun and start shooting, or a knife and start stabbing. Sadly for the gun rights activists, it's probably more likely to be a gun.

So the ultimate solution to the problem is to change our culture as Americans. But under the current conditions, the prospect of increased gun laws has more and more appeal.

Every time I see or hear about gun violence (or knife violence), I can't help but think of what Craig's dad said to him toward the end of "Friday" when he saw Craig had a gun.

(holding up fists) "Back in my day, this was all you needed for protection. You win some, you lose some, but you live to fight another day."

georgeyw · 06-07-2014, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L-Pink

To those that don't own guns, if the situation arises where you need to defend yourself, your property, your loved ones what's your plan? Or are your situational awareness levels so low you don't see things.

I cannot think of a single example when any friend or family member has ever needed to 'defend themselves.

That is always the most ridiculous argument

kane · 06-07-2014, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

perfect example of why we can't trust anti gun nuts

http://theacru.org/acru/harvard_stud...terproductive/

The findings of two criminologists - Prof. Don Kates and Prof. Gary Mauser - in their exhaustive study of American and European gun laws and violence rates, are telling:

Nations with stringent anti-gun laws generally have substantially higher murder rates than those that do not. The study found that the nine European nations with the lowest rates of gun ownership (5,000 or fewer guns per 100,000 population) have a combined murder rate three times higher than that of the nine nations with the highest rates of gun ownership (at least 15,000 guns per 100,000 population).

For example, Norway has the highest rate of gun ownership in Western Europe, yet possesses the lowest murder rate. In contrast, Holland's murder rate is nearly the worst, despite having the lowest gun ownership rate in Western Europe. Sweden and Denmark are two more examples of nations with high murder rates but few guns. As the study's authors write in the report:

If the mantra "more guns equal more death and fewer guns equal less death" were true, broad cross-national comparisons should show that nations with higher gun ownership per capita consistently have more death. Nations with higher gun ownership rates, however, do not have higher murder or suicide rates than those with lower gun ownership. Indeed many high gun ownership nations have much lower murder rates. (p. 661

if you're willing to lie ... what can I say.... you think I want a person like that setting rules and regulations that affect me??

sandyhook is a great example, so lets look at mental health issues not inanimate objects issues

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3240065.html

Japan
The UK
Canada
German
Australia

These are countries that all have very strict gun laws.

According to this all of them also have a murder rate that is much lower than the US.

I understand that there is much more at play when it comes to murder rates than just the availability of guns, but I think it does play a role.

Based on your example, Norway has a high rate of gun ownership for a European country, but the ownership rate is still only about 35% of what it is here in the US. For that matter, when you look at the examples used in the article that you linked all of those countries have gun ownership levels that are significantly lower than the US.

I'm not saying we should outlaw guns. I am just saying that if we are going to live in a society where guns are everywhere and easy to get we can't be shocked at the level of gun violence that we have.

CDSmith · 06-07-2014, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NaughtyVisions

Actually, it's quite simple. The problem lies in our culture as Americans. As far as we've advanced with equal rights and other things, we've become extremely intolerant. People have no common courtesy for others, they have no respect for others. Most have a sense that they are the only person who matters, they want what they want, and fuck anyone else.

Because of that, people lash out at others. Those who have access to guns use them. I'm not just referring to the rash of mass shootings. There was a local story here in PA from a few months ago. Apparently, some guy driving on Interstate 81 did something that pissed another driving off. Rather than simply flipping him the bird and yelling obscenities at him (or better yet, "letting it go," the offended driver proceeded to play road games with the first driver. While the first driver called 911, the second driver pulled out a gun and shot the first driver, as they were driving at speeds of 65mph. The first driver was killed, leaving behind a wife and young child. All over a driving foul. Simply because the second driver lashed out and didn't think about anyone but how pissed off he was. Fuck that this guy could have a family, fuck that this guy had every right to live. But I'm sure the shooter feels better now that the first guy won't switch lanes without signaling, or drive in the passing lane instead of moving over.

Things like this are becoming more and more common place. And even without guys, people who feel they get slighted are so self-centered, they'll beat someone to death over the dumbest shit.

I read an article the other day that a guy shot a cab driver because he thought the cabbie to a longer route to charge the passenger more money.

Our culture needs to change. And I don't blame this on violent movies, video games, music, etc. I'm a product of all of that. But what I had, that many in this country are lacking, is a proper upbringing. My parents instilled in me at an early age the difference between right and wrong, fantasy and reality. I was also taught respect. Respect for other people is something that is seriously lacking in today's America. When I went out walking somewhere as a kid, I didn't cut through my neighbor's yard as a shortcut without permission from the neighbor. I never leaned on a stranger's car when chatting with someone in a parking lot (or my dad's car for that matter).

All of this is what is lacking in our culture. We've become a society of "me first, it's mine, I don't care about anyone other than myself" people. Nobody respects anyone anymore. It's quite sad.

And because of this mentality in our society (not even touching on the mental health issues), people like me are afraid to speak up when someone does something disrespectful (like the old bitch who cut in line in front of me at A.C. Moore the other day when I was trying to pick up something for my son's last school project), because who knows when some fucking asshole who can't think or behave rationally will just pull out a gun and start shooting, or a knife and start stabbing. Sadly for the gun rights activists, it's probably more likely to be a gun.

So the ultimate solution to the problem is to change our culture as Americans. But under the current conditions, the prospect of increased gun laws has more and more appeal.

Every time I see or hear about gun violence (or knife violence), I can't help but think of what Craig's dad said to him toward the end of "Friday" when he saw Craig had a gun.

(holding up fists) "Back in my day, this was all you needed for protection. You win some, you lose some, but you live to fight another day."

I can't say I take issue with much of that, but my point stands. I've posted long rants much like yours on maybe a dozen threads in the past, and the one thing I know for certain is that no one's opinion here changes one iota, and when the next big horrible shooting incident happens somewhere another crop of threads pop up every time arguing the same crap over and over and over ad nauseum.

So like I said, my earlier comment stands.

Good post though.

L-Pink · 06-07-2014, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan G

Exactly, I choose to live in a place where I need not worry about that. Could it happen to me of course it could. However I will not live in fear.

What I don't understand is your continued support of guns when your country obviously has a massive problem with gun violence. Anyhow so be it, its your "right"

I don't live in fear.

I am however very aware of the low-lifes we have in our society.

crockett · 06-07-2014, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by venus

because a lot of those gun nuts have human behaviors that are not conducive to inanimate objects such as guns. some examples...a dumbass open carrying a handgun in the phoenix area went to a Wal-Mart, while standing in line to check out he was playing with his gun and ended up shooting a hole in the ceiling. A week ago a 3yr Arizona boy shot and killed his 18-month-old brother using a gun belonging to a neighbor while at the neighbors house. Guns purchased legally have been used in mass killings.

you cant fix stupid, so take away what makes them act stupid...their guns...or make it harder for them to get them.

BTW I have a conceal carry license and carry a glock 27. I am responsible enough to take the class, not just strap on a gun so people can see it and run around Wal-Mart..so many people that do that carry the junkiest looking guns and holsters. Like they ran down to the local goodwill as soon as someone told them they could open carry..losers.

What is fucked up, is when I took my concealed carry class, you only had to shoot the gun 3 times. Most of the class was covering the law and what you can or can't do but actually using the gun, it was like a assembly line. The 20 or so people in the class just all lined up squeezed off three shots and they were qualified.

There really needs to be much more training involved on how to properly handle a gun. Not just about how to keep yourself out of trouble for carrying at a post office or so on. There should be some sort of require DC hands on training that consists of more than squeezing off a few shots.

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude · 06-07-2014, 03:55 PM

I think that it is safe to say that the "nuts" are the ones with guns behind much of the gun crime and gun killing, and most of them are pro-gun.

Unfortunately, the NRA wants to make it easier for such nuts to acquire guns:

NRA Trying ?To Make It Easier? For Criminals And Mentally Ill To Get Guns by Mark Kelly (retired US Astronaut, husband of former Congressperson Gabby Giffords):

To want to put an end to the madness and suffering caused by the too easy availability of guns is a sane response to an unacceptable amount of death and suffering.

This first video has good info about the history of gun control in America, including how the NRA was once a proponent of gun control; that is until the NRA leadership was taken over by shills for gun manufacturers in the 70's, whom are opposed to virtually any effort to bring some sanity to the wide availability and use of guns as an inanimate tool for causing widespread fear, suffering, and death, and are directly responsible for annually killing thousands of people indiscriminately:

To the pro-gun nuts, what concrete proposals do you recommend/support to help stop the epidemic of gun violence?

Love and Peace (a nice alternative to Hate and Violence),

ADG

Grapesoda · 06-07-2014, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyna mo

That's what everyone is saying.

all jokes aside I love that area and consider moving there, Slovakia actually ..

Grapesoda · 06-07-2014, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan G

Exactly, I choose to live in a place where I need not worry about that. Could it happen to me of course it could. However I will not live in fear.

What I don't understand is your continued support of guns when your country obviously has a massive problem with gun violence. Anyhow so be it, its your "right"

I think the massive issue in the states is the overwhelming protection offered to 'criminals' myself, allowing absolutely no fear of consequence

Grapesoda · 06-07-2014, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NaughtyVisions

Actually, it's quite simple. The problem lies in our culture as Americans. As far as we've advanced with equal rights and other things, we've become extremely intolerant. People have no common courtesy for others, they have no respect for others. Most have a sense that they are the only person who matters, they want what they want, and fuck anyone else.

Because of that, people lash out at others. Those who have access to guns use them. I'm not just referring to the rash of mass shootings. There was a local story here in PA from a few months ago. Apparently, some guy driving on Interstate 81 did something that pissed another driving off. Rather than simply flipping him the bird and yelling obscenities at him (or better yet, "letting it go," the offended driver proceeded to play road games with the first driver. While the first driver called 911, the second driver pulled out a gun and shot the first driver, as they were driving at speeds of 65mph. The first driver was killed, leaving behind a wife and young child. All over a driving foul. Simply because the second driver lashed out and didn't think about anyone but how pissed off he was. Fuck that this guy could have a family, fuck that this guy had every right to live. But I'm sure the shooter feels better now that the first guy won't switch lanes without signaling, or drive in the passing lane instead of moving over.

Things like this are becoming more and more common place. And even without guys, people who feel they get slighted are so self-centered, they'll beat someone to death over the dumbest shit.

I read an article the other day that a guy shot a cab driver because he thought the cabbie to a longer route to charge the passenger more money.

Our culture needs to change. And I don't blame this on violent movies, video games, music, etc. I'm a product of all of that. But what I had, that many in this country are lacking, is a proper upbringing. My parents instilled in me at an early age the difference between right and wrong, fantasy and reality. I was also taught respect. Respect for other people is something that is seriously lacking in today's America. When I went out walking somewhere as a kid, I didn't cut through my neighbor's yard as a shortcut without permission from the neighbor. I never leaned on a stranger's car when chatting with someone in a parking lot (or my dad's car for that matter).

All of this is what is lacking in our culture. We've become a society of "me first, it's mine, I don't care about anyone other than myself" people. Nobody respects anyone anymore. It's quite sad.

And because of this mentality in our society (not even touching on the mental health issues), people like me are afraid to speak up when someone does something disrespectful (like the old bitch who cut in line in front of me at A.C. Moore the other day when I was trying to pick up something for my son's last school project), because who knows when some fucking asshole who can't think or behave rationally will just pull out a gun and start shooting, or a knife and start stabbing. Sadly for the gun rights activists, it's probably more likely to be a gun.

So the ultimate solution to the problem is to change our culture as Americans. But under the current conditions, the prospect of increased gun laws has more and more appeal.

Every time I see or hear about gun violence (or knife violence), I can't help but think of what Craig's dad said to him toward the end of "Friday" when he saw Craig had a gun.

(holding up fists) "Back in my day, this was all you needed for protection. You win some, you lose some, but you live to fight another day."

for the last 30 plus year the media has heavily pushed the 'minority' agenda of 'owed entitlement' .... you don't expect a backlash?

Grapesoda · 06-07-2014, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kane

Japan
The UK
Canada
German
Australia

These are countries that all have very strict gun laws.

According to this all of them also have a murder rate that is much lower than the US.

I understand that there is much more at play when it comes to murder rates than just the availability of guns, but I think it does play a role.

Based on your example, Norway has a high rate of gun ownership for a European country, but the ownership rate is still only about 35% of what it is here in the US. For that matter, when you look at the examples used in the article that you linked all of those countries have gun ownership levels that are significantly lower than the US.

I'm not saying we should outlaw guns. I am just saying that if we are going to live in a society where guns are everywhere and easy to get we can't be shocked at the level of gun violence that we have.

so I need to give up my gun because the murder rates are artificially inflated due to inner-city gang warfare... I get that right?

Grapesoda · 06-07-2014, 04:51 PM

dear shitbag larry, pls stay out of my threads

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude is on your ignore list.

crockett · 06-07-2014, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

I think the massive issue in the states is the overwhelming protection offered to 'criminals' myself, allowing absolutely no fear of consequence

We execute more criminals than any other western country and we in-prison more people than any other nation on Earth. What protection are criminals granted?

This I have to hear..

slapass · 06-07-2014, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

Nations with stringent anti-gun laws generally have substantially higher murder rates than those that do not. The study found that the nine European nations with the lowest rates of gun ownership (5,000 or fewer guns per 100,000 population) have a combined murder rate three times higher than that of the nine nations with the highest rates of gun ownership (at least 15,000 guns per 100,000 population).

Finally, and as if to prove the bumper sticker correct - that "gun don't kill people, people do" - the study also shows that Russia's murder rate is four times higher than the U.S. and more than 20 times higher than Norway. This, in a country that practically eradicated private gun ownership over the course of decades of totalitarian rule and police state methods of suppression. Needless to say, very few Russian murders involve guns.

--this is my point... you antigun nuts have no interest in facts, only in pushing an agenda at ANY cost.... with little regard for the truth

We have a lot of guns and a lot of gun crime. I ignore the facts?

slapass · 06-07-2014, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

so I need to give up my gun because the murder rates are artificially inflated due to inner-city gang warfare... I get that right?

It is always the race card. White people have guns because they fear black people. I think this is the only reason we cling to our guns so tightly.

Aka_Bluey · 06-07-2014, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mayabong

Strict gun laws seem to work in mexico

Read this today in the news.

Kim Kardashian doppelganger Claudia Ochoa Felix is the alleged leader of a Mexican hit squad. --> Source

.

Seth Manson · 06-07-2014, 06:10 PM

Oh look, the foreigners are still babbling about what goes on in my country.

You guys must live in complete boredom. Go outside or something.

kane · 06-07-2014, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

so I need to give up my gun because the murder rates are artificially inflated due to inner-city gang warfare... I get that right?

And they are full of gangsters who have guns that were stolen from people who bought them legally.

I have said a few times in this thread that I think people should be allowed to have guns. I just think that getting a handgun should be much more difficult than it is.

arock10 · 06-08-2014, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kane

And they are full of gangsters who have guns that were stolen from people who bought them legally.

I have said a few times in this thread that I think people should be allowed to have guns. I just think that getting a handgun should be much more difficult than it is.

Yup you should be able to buy any guns you want just make it less laughingly easy to acquire.

Majority of these pro gun arguments are absolutely ridiculous and are the result of a very successful NRA brainwashing campaign

slapass · 06-08-2014, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NaughtyVisions

Actually, it's quite simple. The problem lies in our culture as Americans. As far as we've advanced with equal rights and other things, we've become extremely intolerant. People have no common courtesy for others, they have no respect for others. Most have a sense that they are the only person who matters, they want what they want, and fuck anyone else.

Because of that, people lash out at others. Those who have access to guns use them. I'm not just referring to the rash of mass shootings. There was a local story here in PA from a few months ago. Apparently, some guy driving on Interstate 81 did something that pissed another driving off. Rather than simply flipping him the bird and yelling obscenities at him (or better yet, "letting it go," the offended driver proceeded to play road games with the first driver. While the first driver called 911, the second driver pulled out a gun and shot the first driver, as they were driving at speeds of 65mph. The first driver was killed, leaving behind a wife and young child. All over a driving foul. Simply because the second driver lashed out and didn't think about anyone but how pissed off he was. Fuck that this guy could have a family, fuck that this guy had every right to live. But I'm sure the shooter feels better now that the first guy won't switch lanes without signaling, or drive in the passing lane instead of moving over.

Things like this are becoming more and more common place. And even without guys, people who feel they get slighted are so self-centered, they'll beat someone to death over the dumbest shit.

I read an article the other day that a guy shot a cab driver because he thought the cabbie to a longer route to charge the passenger more money.

Our culture needs to change. And I don't blame this on violent movies, video games, music, etc. I'm a product of all of that. But what I had, that many in this country are lacking, is a proper upbringing. My parents instilled in me at an early age the difference between right and wrong, fantasy and reality. I was also taught respect. Respect for other people is something that is seriously lacking in today's America. When I went out walking somewhere as a kid, I didn't cut through my neighbor's yard as a shortcut without permission from the neighbor. I never leaned on a stranger's car when chatting with someone in a parking lot (or my dad's car for that matter).

All of this is what is lacking in our culture. We've become a society of "me first, it's mine, I don't care about anyone other than myself" people. Nobody respects anyone anymore. It's quite sad.

And because of this mentality in our society (not even touching on the mental health issues), people like me are afraid to speak up when someone does something disrespectful (like the old bitch who cut in line in front of me at A.C. Moore the other day when I was trying to pick up something for my son's last school project), because who knows when some fucking asshole who can't think or behave rationally will just pull out a gun and start shooting, or a knife and start stabbing. Sadly for the gun rights activists, it's probably more likely to be a gun.

So the ultimate solution to the problem is to change our culture as Americans. But under the current conditions, the prospect of increased gun laws has more and more appeal.

Every time I see or hear about gun violence (or knife violence), I can't help but think of what Craig's dad said to him toward the end of "Friday" when he saw Craig had a gun.

(holding up fists) "Back in my day, this was all you needed for protection. You win some, you lose some, but you live to fight another day."

How do you explain that the USA is the safest it ihas been in 50 years then?

slapass · 06-08-2014, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

I think the massive issue in the states is the overwhelming protection offered to 'criminals' myself, allowing absolutely no fear of consequence

We lock up more of our citizens percent wise then any "civilized" country. We have harsher sentences etc. The USA is not at all lenient on criminals.

You can sort this and we are second highest - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...rceration_rate

Grapesoda · 06-08-2014, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crockett

We execute more criminals than any other western country and we in-prison more people than any other nation on Earth. What protection are criminals granted?

This I have to hear..

a guy could walk up to a cop and your entire family, kill them in cold blood with witnesses, throw up his hand and ask for a lawyer. and have a 50/50 chance of getting off on a legal technicality... are you really that naïve?

Grapesoda · 06-08-2014, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slapass

It is always the race card. White people have guns because they fear black people. I think this is the only reason we cling to our guns so tightly.

well that certainly is an unreadable fear for sure

Grapesoda · 06-08-2014, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arock10

Yup you should be able to buy any guns you want just make it less laughingly easy to acquire.

Majority of these pro gun arguments are absolutely ridiculous and are the result of a very successful NRA brainwashing campaign

the real issue is you and people like you.... how could we possibly trust you to an honest discussion on gun regulation when you'll say ANYTHING, ANY LIE, ANY DISTORION OF FACTS to push your agenda... seriously

Grapesoda · 06-08-2014, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slapass

We lock up more of our citizens percent wise then any "civilized" country. We have harsher sentences etc. The USA is not at all lenient on criminals.

You can sort this and we are second highest - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...rceration_rate

probably not related to a large population of 'mildly to legally retarded people' being granted almost unlimited funds and being told they have the right to anything other people must work hard for..... or 'mildly to legally retarded people' being told they aren't responsible for their actions because whitey fucked them over... ?

just sayin' you know? or are you under true impression that most people incarcerated are master world class criminals?

arock10 · 06-08-2014, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

the real issue is you and people like you.... how could we possibly trust you to an honest discussion on gun regulation when you'll say ANYTHING, ANY LIE, ANY DISTORION OF FACTS to push your agenda... seriously

how is it living in your own little delusional world?

How many times have all your guns saved yourself, friends, or family from a threat? It must suck being in constant fear for your life that you feel you need guns for protection

Robbie · 06-08-2014, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDalton

by now a useless discussion - American gun owners will never give in and the rest of the world will shake its head

The rest of the world?

I don't know about Europe...but when I see the news from the Middle East, they make guns in America look like the freakin' boy scouts.

Those guys are running around with machine guns in the streets and rocket launchers!

Also, when I look at statistics of "guns per citizen", I always think to myself: That doesn't take into account the gun collectors who own thousands of guns and have them in display cases.

The majority of Americans don't own a gun.

But every criminal DOES own a gun and does use them.

By the way...when I was a kid, I grew up in a small town in Florida.
My dad had his rifles on the gun rack in his pickup truck. So did my grandfather and all of my uncles.

Guns were everywhere. They were in our house, they were in the vehicles, etc.
None were ever locked up. And they were ALWAYS loaded.

It was the same at all my friend's homes as well.

And even though I didn't have a pickup truck or a gun that I carried around...when I was in high school in the late 1970's, there were lots of guys who did have pickup trucks. And they had their rifles in the gun rack in the back window of their trucks parked right on the school property.

Nobody ever even THOUGHT about coming into a school and shooting back then. They wouldn't have made it very far.

I can only imagine in today's pussy ass world if a guy drove his truck with rifles in his gun rack onto school grounds. He would probably be surrounded by a SWAT team and thrown in prison.

Back then we grew up with guns and respected them. These days? Kids grow up killing thousands of people with guns on video games.

And then when they FINALLY get their hands on a real gun (with no training or respect for the weapon), they go out and try to replicate the video game in real life.

Robbie · 06-08-2014, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuckOnThis

Yep, kind of funny though whenever some drunk plows into a bus and kills 10 people you don't get a group of people saying "see? laws don't work, get rid of drunk driving laws".

So you're saying that drunk driving laws don't work. And you're right.

Drunk driving laws are just ways for the city to make money off of people. That's why they have lowered the blood/alcohol level so far that you can use Listerine mouthwash and blow "drunk".

So they pull over thousands of people and ruin their lives and bankrupt them.

Meanwhile, the REAL drunk drivers continue to drive completely wasted and kill people. Half the time it seems they have already lost their licenses and are driving with no license, no tags, etc.

Guess what? Criminals don't obey the law. They don't care about the law. They never have and never will.
That's why what you said happens all the time. And the "law" doesn't stop it one bit.

All it does is punish "normal" people.

Just like gun laws.

Criminals don't give a fuck about any law. Only citizens who AREN'T criminals will be affected by any law.

It's kind of a conundrum.

Think of the 2257 law.

It was supposed to be a way to stop underage porn from being shot.

But guess what? Legitimate people never shot that shit anyway (not on purpose...Traci Lords used fake ID and would still get away with it today).
And perverts shooting underage shit? They STILL shoot it.

But how can that be? There is a LAW after all.

Yeah, and the only peope suffering from that "law" are the legitimate people. We have to keep all these fucking records and worry about having our doors kicked in by the govt.

The bad guys shooting that underage shit? They don't keep ANY records and stay under the radar.

That, unfortunately is how it works. Criminals break the law and don't care about it. While the good guys are burdened by the law.

The problem with our society is all of these "preemptive" laws. Trying to stop crimes before they happen.

It leads to a fucked up situation all the way around.

Here's an old-fashioned idea: Instead of trying to preemptively enforce "laws"...how about waiting until somebody actually DOES something and then arrest them and punish them for it. (that's what always happens in the end anyway)

I know, I know....that just sounds crazy.

AmeliaG · 06-08-2014, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NaughtyVisions

Actually, it's quite simple. The problem lies in our culture as Americans. As far as we've advanced with equal rights and other things, we've become extremely intolerant. People have no common courtesy for others, they have no respect for others. Most have a sense that they are the only person who matters, they want what they want, and fuck anyone else.

Because of that, people lash out at others. Those who have access to guns use them. I'm not just referring to the rash of mass shootings. There was a local story here in PA from a few months ago. Apparently, some guy driving on Interstate 81 did something that pissed another driving off. Rather than simply flipping him the bird and yelling obscenities at him (or better yet, "letting it go," the offended driver proceeded to play road games with the first driver. While the first driver called 911, the second driver pulled out a gun and shot the first driver, as they were driving at speeds of 65mph. The first driver was killed, leaving behind a wife and young child. All over a driving foul. Simply because the second driver lashed out and didn't think about anyone but how pissed off he was. Fuck that this guy could have a family, fuck that this guy had every right to live. But I'm sure the shooter feels better now that the first guy won't switch lanes without signaling, or drive in the passing lane instead of moving over.

Things like this are becoming more and more common place. And even without guys, people who feel they get slighted are so self-centered, they'll beat someone to death over the dumbest shit.

I read an article the other day that a guy shot a cab driver because he thought the cabbie to a longer route to charge the passenger more money.

Our culture needs to change. And I don't blame this on violent movies, video games, music, etc. I'm a product of all of that. But what I had, that many in this country are lacking, is a proper upbringing. My parents instilled in me at an early age the difference between right and wrong, fantasy and reality. I was also taught respect. Respect for other people is something that is seriously lacking in today's America. When I went out walking somewhere as a kid, I didn't cut through my neighbor's yard as a shortcut without permission from the neighbor. I never leaned on a stranger's car when chatting with someone in a parking lot (or my dad's car for that matter).

All of this is what is lacking in our culture. We've become a society of "me first, it's mine, I don't care about anyone other than myself" people. Nobody respects anyone anymore. It's quite sad.

And because of this mentality in our society (not even touching on the mental health issues), people like me are afraid to speak up when someone does something disrespectful (like the old bitch who cut in line in front of me at A.C. Moore the other day when I was trying to pick up something for my son's last school project), because who knows when some fucking asshole who can't think or behave rationally will just pull out a gun and start shooting, or a knife and start stabbing. Sadly for the gun rights activists, it's probably more likely to be a gun.

So the ultimate solution to the problem is to change our culture as Americans. But under the current conditions, the prospect of increased gun laws has more and more appeal.

Every time I see or hear about gun violence (or knife violence), I can't help but think of what Craig's dad said to him toward the end of "Friday" when he saw Craig had a gun.

(holding up fists) "Back in my day, this was all you needed for protection. You win some, you lose some, but you live to fight another day."

Having a horrible economy for so many years has pushed a lot of people to the end of their rope.

The solution for that level of tension is to fix the roadmap to opportunity in America.

Guns have nothing to do with people being in a constant state of nearly breaking. Symptom, not cause.

dyna mo · 06-08-2014, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

By the way...when I was a kid, I grew up in a small town in Florida.
My dad had his rifles on the gun rack in his pickup truck. So did my grandfather and all of my uncles.

Guns were everywhere. They were in our house, they were in the vehicles, etc.
None were ever locked up. And they were ALWAYS loaded.

no open container laws back then either, we used to drive around with the gun rack full and plenty of schlitz to go around.

AmeliaG · 06-08-2014, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slapass

We lock up more of our citizens percent wise then any "civilized" country. We have harsher sentences etc. The USA is not at all lenient on criminals.

You can sort this and we are second highest - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...rceration_rate

Isn't the US the highest? What country on that list has a higher level of incarceration? Seychelles is the same and doesn't count, as it is teeny.

Edit: This seems to indicate a lower number

AmeliaG · 06-08-2014, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

So you're saying that drunk driving laws don't work. And you're right.

Drunk driving laws are just ways for the city to make money off of people. That's why they have lowered the blood/alcohol level so far that you can use Listerine mouthwash and blow "drunk".

So they pull over thousands of people and ruin their lives and bankrupt them.

Meanwhile, the REAL drunk drivers continue to drive completely wasted and kill people. Half the time it seems they have already lost their licenses and are driving with no license, no tags, etc.

Guess what? Criminals don't obey the law. They don't care about the law. They never have and never will.
That's why what you said happens all the time. And the "law" doesn't stop it one bit.

All it does is punish "normal" people.

Just like gun laws.

Criminals don't give a fuck about any law. Only citizens who AREN'T criminals will be affected by any law.

It's kind of a conundrum.

Think of the 2257 law.

It was supposed to be a way to stop underage porn from being shot.

But guess what? Legitimate people never shot that shit anyway (not on purpose...Traci Lords used fake ID and would still get away with it today).
And perverts shooting underage shit? They STILL shoot it.

But how can that be? There is a LAW after all.

Yeah, and the only peope suffering from that "law" are the legitimate people. We have to keep all these fucking records and worry about having our doors kicked in by the govt.

The bad guys shooting that underage shit? They don't keep ANY records and stay under the radar.

That, unfortunately is how it works. Criminals break the law and don't care about it. While the good guys are burdened by the law.

The problem with our society is all of these "preemptive" laws. Trying to stop crimes before they happen.

It leads to a fucked up situation all the way around.

Here's an old-fashioned idea: Instead of trying to preemptively enforce "laws"...how about waiting until somebody actually DOES something and then arrest them and punish them for it. (that's what always happens in the end anyway)

I know, I know....that just sounds crazy.

You crazy lunatic person. You shouldn't be allowed to own a firearm because of, uhm, mental stuff.

I remember being told by teachers that we knew Russia was the Evil Empire because they took political dissidents and diagnosed them as crazy and took away their rights. Now RT is schooling people on freedom. It's embarrassing.

Robbie · 06-08-2014, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyna mo

no open container laws back then either, we used to drive around with the gun rack full and plenty of schlitz to go around.

When I was in St. Martin in 1998 partying...I rented a mini-moke (a tiny jeep with an old MG engine in it) to drive around in.

We drove with our drinks in our hand and waved to the traffic cops (they waved back).

As for open container laws in the U.S....by the time I was in high school, they had already initiated that law.

I thought then, and I think now...it's another bullshit law.

Down in Florida they had "Bottle Clubs" which were basically nightclubs without a liquor license.
You paid a big cover charge at the door, which was your "membership fee" to the private club for the night. Then you took your bottle of booze to the bar and they labeled it as yours.
Then you paid a couple of bucks for a set up each time you got a drink.

My band used to play at those kinds of places all the time around 1980/1981.

So people would go to the liquor store and buy a giant bottle of Jack Daniels, drink a few drinks out of it at the "Bottle Club". Then they would get their bottle of Jack back from the bar to go home.

Then the cops would pull them over and arrest them for an "open container" because the seal on the bottle was broken.

It was a total bullshit thing to do. And not in the "spirit" of the law at all.

Same thing would happen if you had a nice bottle of wine and only drank a glass of it and wanted to take the bottle home with you.

These laws turn ordinary citizens into "criminals" with all of this "preemptive" nonsense.

venus · 06-08-2014, 02:03 PM

what speech do you not have any longer exactly?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

we don't have free speech in America any longer

slapass · 06-08-2014, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

probably not related to a large population of 'mildly to legally retarded people' being granted almost unlimited funds and being told they have the right to anything other people must work hard for..... or 'mildly to legally retarded people' being told they aren't responsible for their actions because whitey fucked them over... ?

just sayin' you know? or are you under true impression that most people incarcerated are master world class criminals?

Ok then. No need to look at facts lets just throw out weird shit. Whitey need his gun cuz the unwashed masses of non-whites are coming for him.

slapass · 06-08-2014, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

By the way...when I was a kid, I grew up in a small town in Florida.
My dad had his rifles on the gun rack in his pickup truck. So did my grandfather and all of my uncles.

Guns were everywhere. They were in our house, they were in the vehicles, etc.
None were ever locked up. And they were ALWAYS loaded.

It was the same at all my friend's homes as well.

And even though I didn't have a pickup truck or a gun that I carried around...when I was in high school in the late 1970's, there were lots of guys who did have pickup trucks. And they had their rifles in the gun rack in the back window of their trucks parked right on the school property.

(

Murder rate was much higher in the 70's in Florida then it is today. I find this amazing as I too thought we grew up in peaceful times. The gun rack maybe wasn't such a good idea.

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/flcrime.htm

Assults and type of fights have been redefined over the years so they are a little harder to compare. A fist fight in the 70's even with injuries was less likely to be reported.

slapass · 06-08-2014, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmeliaG

Isn't the US the highest? What country on that list has a higher level of incarceration? Seychelles is the same and doesn't count, as it is teeny.

Edit: This seems to indicate a lower number

I just noticed we were second. So I would agree that we are tied for first with a country most people have never heard of.

slapass · 06-08-2014, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

So you're saying that drunk driving laws don't work. And you're right.

Drunk driving laws are just ways for the city to make money off of people. That's why they have lowered the blood/alcohol level so far that you can use Listerine mouthwash and blow "drunk".

So they pull over thousands of people and ruin their lives and bankrupt them.

Meanwhile, the REAL drunk drivers continue to drive completely wasted and kill people. Half the time it seems they have already lost their licenses and are driving with no license, no tags, etc.

Guess what? Criminals don't obey the law. They don't care about the law. They never have and never will.
That's why what you said happens all the time. And the "law" doesn't stop it one bit.

All it does is punish "normal" people.

Just like gun laws.

Criminals don't give a fuck about any law. Only citizens who AREN'T criminals will be affected by any law.

It's kind of a conundrum.

Think of the 2257 law.

It was supposed to be a way to stop underage porn from being shot.

But guess what? Legitimate people never shot that shit anyway (not on purpose...Traci Lords used fake ID and would still get away with it today).
And perverts shooting underage shit? They STILL shoot it.

But how can that be? There is a LAW after all.

Yeah, and the only peope suffering from that "law" are the legitimate people. We have to keep all these fucking records and worry about having our doors kicked in by the govt.

The bad guys shooting that underage shit? They don't keep ANY records and stay under the radar.

That, unfortunately is how it works. Criminals break the law and don't care about it. While the good guys are burdened by the law.

The problem with our society is all of these "preemptive" laws. Trying to stop crimes before they happen.

It leads to a fucked up situation all the way around.

Here's an old-fashioned idea: Instead of trying to preemptively enforce "laws"...how about waiting until somebody actually DOES something and then arrest them and punish them for it. (that's what always happens in the end anyway)

I know, I know....that just sounds crazy.

You know how to work Google right?

http://www.alcoholalert.com/drunk-dr...s-florida.html

Drunk driving deaths in Florida are way down as a percoent of population. Talk to any bar owner and they will tell you the heydays of the liquor trade were back when people could legally drink and drive. People drink and drive less. I do not think they are the criminal element as I have done my fair share of this. It is less now as the risk of getting caught is higher as is the penalty.

Robbie · 06-08-2014, 02:58 PM

I know how to work Google.

I also know that dui laws may or may not have anything to do with drunk driving deaths.

I'm sure law enforcement will pat themselves on the back and congratulate themselves for pulling you over and ruining your life after you had 3 cocktails at dinner and are on the way home.

Cars also got safer during that same time span and more people wear seat belts. But I'm sure that has nothing to do with anything.

Also from that link:
"It is important to note that the Florida drunk driving statistics, as shown above, include data from individuals who were in an alcohol-related crash, but not driving a motor vehicle at the time. The U.S. Department of Transportation defines alcohol-related deaths as "fatalities that occur in crashes where at least one driver or non-occupant (pedestrian or pedalcyclist) involved in the crash has a positive Blood Alcohol Concentration (BAC) value."

As for the murder rate being higher in the 1970's in Florida?
Average per year for that decade was 908 murders a year. Not "gun deaths", but murders.
Average for 2010 to current time: 993 murders a year.

So no, that is incorrect.

Also keep in mind that the early part of the 1970's was coming off of a lot of civil unrest in our country and the ending of the Vietnam war. There was a lot of overall violence in bigger cities and riots.

But in the small "normal" towns where people had guns? Not so much. The town I was in: Bartow, Fla. My mom was a deputy sheriff from 1972 to 1978.
Gun murders? Very, very rare at that time.

So thinking that gun racks in the back of pickups was in retrospect not very smart...I disagree.

These days however, I would definitely NOT do that in a bigger city. Not only are the cops trigger happy to begin with...but somebody would just break into your vehicle and steal your gun.

That's how those pesky criminals operate. They just don't "obey" the "law". lol

kane · 06-08-2014, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

I know how to work Google.

I also know that dui laws may or may not have anything to do with drunk driving deaths.

I'm sure law enforcement will pat themselves on the back and congratulate themselves for pulling you over and ruining your life after you had 3 cocktails at dinner and are on the way home.

Cars also got safer during that same time span and more people wear seat belts. But I'm sure that has nothing to do with anything.

Also from that link:
"It is important to note that the Florida drunk driving statistics, as shown above, include data from individuals who were in an alcohol-related crash, but not driving a motor vehicle at the time. The U.S. Department of Transportation defines alcohol-related deaths as "fatalities that occur in crashes where at least one driver or non-occupant (pedestrian or pedalcyclist) involved in the crash has a positive Blood Alcohol Concentration (BAC) value."

As for the murder rate being higher in the 1970's in Florida?
Average per year for that decade was 908 murders a year. Not "gun deaths", but murders.
Average for 2010 to current time: 993 murders a year.

So no, that is incorrect.

Also keep in mind that the early part of the 1970's was coming off of a lot of civil unrest in our country and the ending of the Vietnam war. There was a lot of overall violence in bigger cities and riots.

But in the small "normal" towns where people had guns? Not so much. The town I was in: Bartow, Fla. My mom was a deputy sheriff from 1972 to 1978.
Gun murders? Very, very rare at that time.

So thinking that gun racks in the back of pickups was in retrospect not very smart...I disagree.

These days however, I would definitely NOT do that in a bigger city. Not only are the cops trigger happy to begin with...but somebody would just break into your vehicle and steal your gun.

That's how those pesky criminals operate. They just don't "obey" the "law". lol

When I was growing up in a small town in the 80's during hunting season students would have rifles in the gun racks in their trucks so they could go hunt after school. If that happened today they would lock the school down and call in a swat team.

arock10 · 06-08-2014, 03:55 PM

Clearly we just need to decriminalize gun violence, since obviously it impedes on our human rights and doesn't accomplish anything. It will be immensely successful immediately sending violent crimes committed with guns to 0

slapass · 06-08-2014, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

I know how to work Google.

I also know that dui laws may or may not have anything to do with drunk driving deaths.

I'm sure law enforcement will pat themselves on the back and congratulate themselves for pulling you over and ruining your life after you had 3 cocktails at dinner and are on the way home.

Cars also got safer during that same time span and more people wear seat belts. But I'm sure that has nothing to do with anything.

Also from that link:
"It is important to note that the Florida drunk driving statistics, as shown above, include data from individuals who were in an alcohol-related crash, but not driving a motor vehicle at the time. The U.S. Department of Transportation defines alcohol-related deaths as "fatalities that occur in crashes where at least one driver or non-occupant (pedestrian or pedalcyclist) involved in the crash has a positive Blood Alcohol Concentration (BAC) value."

As for the murder rate being higher in the 1970's in Florida?
Average per year for that decade was 908 murders a year. Not "gun deaths", but murders.
Average for 2010 to current time: 993 murders a year.

So no, that is incorrect.

Also keep in mind that the early part of the 1970's was coming off of a lot of civil unrest in our country and the ending of the Vietnam war. There was a lot of overall violence in bigger cities and riots.

But in the small "normal" towns where people had guns? Not so much. The town I was in: Bartow, Fla. My mom was a deputy sheriff from 1972 to 1978.
Gun murders? Very, very rare at that time.

So thinking that gun racks in the back of pickups was in retrospect not very smart...I disagree.

These days however, I would definitely NOT do that in a bigger city. Not only are the cops trigger happy to begin with...but somebody would just break into your vehicle and steal your gun.

That's how those pesky criminals operate. They just don't "obey" the "law". lol

Florida has more then twice the people now. So the murder rate is less then half what it was.

Edit: drinking and driving is down. Check with bar and restaurant owners. Alcohol consumption is down in the USA.

Jel · 06-08-2014, 05:58 PM

As a UK resident, I wouldn't dream of needing to own a gun (these days, sice I've quietened down).

If I were a USA resident I wouldn't even contemplate not owning one.

the USA vs USA guys on guns is interesting to read, and I see tons of valid points on each side (aside from the hilarious 'we should ban knives, cars, etc too - sheesh, the difference is really not obvious??), but for those of us in countries where this whole chicken & egg situation where guns are so easily accessible by criminals, so you need to be sensible and have protection, yet if it weren't for guns being so accessible in the 1st place, tons of criminals wouldn't have them, has never existed - you can't use the situation around guns in your country to 'prove' anything about guns in the US.

2am so not the most coherent post I've ever made lol, but yeah, decipher it and you'll all see I'm spot on.

Jel · 06-08-2014, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

50/50 chance of getting off on a legal technicality

Really? 50%? Got a source where I can see that 50% of shooters get off on technicalities?

2MuchMark · 06-08-2014, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

So you're saying that drunk driving laws don't work. And you're right.

Drunk driving laws are just ways for the city to make money off of people. That's why they have lowered the blood/alcohol level so far that you can use Listerine mouthwash and blow "drunk".

Not true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

So they pull over thousands of people and ruin their lives and bankrupt them.

No. They take drunk drivers off of the street and save you and your loved ones from being hurt or killed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Meanwhile, the REAL drunk drivers continue to drive completely wasted and kill people. Half the time it seems they have already lost their licenses and are driving with no license, no tags, etc.

Yes, the system is broken, but the stats don't lie.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Guess what? Criminals don't obey the law. They don't care about the law. They never have and never will.
That's why what you said happens all the time. And the "law" doesn't stop it one bit.

The law puts criminals behind bars.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

All it does is punish "normal" people.

What is a "normal" person? Someone who gets behind the wheel after drinking too much, breaking the law, and potentially causing a car accident which can result in death?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Just like gun laws.

No, not just like gun laws. Cars are made for transportation. Alcohol is made to be a recreational drug to be consumed responsibly. Guns are made for 1 reason only, to kill. Gun laws should be put in place to stop criminals, drug users, alcoholics etc from being able to own or carry a gun.

Furthermore, Too many idiots are now way out of control thanks to constant and never ending fear mongering making them think that they are going to lose the rights to carry their guns. "Use it or lose it" is their latest battle cry. What they don't seem to understand is that the constitution protects their rights to carry a gun. Those fucking hillbillies at those restaurants in the southern US don't understand a fucking thing. All they want to do is play cowboys with their 'kin, regardless of how many people they scare".

I don't know if you are a gun owner or not, but if you are, YOU should be the one upset about this, not me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Criminals don't give a fuck about any law. Only citizens who AREN'T criminals will be affected by any law.

So then by your logic, all laws should be abolished?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

It's kind of a conundrum.

No, you are a conundrum.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Think of the 2257 law.

It was supposed to be a way to stop underage porn from being shot.

But guess what? Legitimate people never shot that shit anyway (not on purpose...Traci Lords used fake ID and would still get away with it today).
And perverts shooting underage shit? They STILL shoot it.

But how can that be? There is a LAW after all.

Anyone who knows anything about this knows that the real intent of the law was to try to make it much much harder for porn companies to stay in business. "Legit" porn companies never made CP in the past and still wouldn't today, regardless of 2257. Your comparison of gun laws to 2257 is weak.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Yeah, and the only peope suffering from that "law" are the legitimate people. We have to keep all these fucking records and worry about having our doors kicked in by the govt.

So, now you are comparing your suffering to the parents of some poor kid who has his brains shot out at School? Maybe you're comparing your suffering to some poor guy who lost his wife to a gun shot? Maybe the extra record keeping you have to do is makes you suffer more than Arizona Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords who was shot in the head?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

The bad guys shooting that underage shit? They don't keep ANY records and stay under the radar.

I'm pretty sure that someone over at http://www.asacp.org will prove you dead wrong on that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

That, unfortunately is how it works. Criminals break the law and don't care about it. While the good guys are burdened by the law.

No dude that is not at all how it works. You have just about everything ass-backwards.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

The problem with our society is all of these "preemptive" laws. Trying to stop crimes before they happen.

They do not stop crimes before they happen. They impose (hopefully) harsh penalties on people that commit those crimes. Do you really think the world would be a better place without laws?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

It leads to a fucked up situation all the way around.

No, it doesn't. The laws help you sleep at night. The laws protect you and your family who are I'm sure, all good law abiding citizens. The laws make sure you have clear air to breath and pure water to drink. The laws also let you say anything you're allowed to say, and let you buy a gun if you want to, and let you watch or make your own kind of porn. Everything you have said in this post has been dead wrong from the beginning.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Here's an old-fashioned idea: Instead of trying to preemptively enforce "laws"...how about waiting until somebody actually DOES something and then arrest them and punish them for it. (that's what always happens in the end anyway)

So then how can they be arrested for a crime that is not a crime yet?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

I know, I know....that just sounds crazy.

I'll agree with you on that one... !

Peace.

Robbie · 06-08-2014, 07:13 PM

Thanks for insulting me Mark.

Now let me school you (it's so easy):
On the scum who shoot underage...you are insinuating that they DO keep records? 2257 records? No wonder you sell software...you are NOT in the porn biz and don't know what the fuck you are talking about.

There, got that easy one out of the way.

As for your "So then how can they be arrested for a crime that is not a crime yet?"
How slow are you man? Drink some coffee or something to stimulate your brain.

What I said was to stop trying to create new crimes with preemptiveness. I happen to think it's been a "slippery slope" of allowing the govt. and cops to do that.

As for the rest of your post...which I don't understand your constant need to do...
I look at this broken system. I see that the things that have been done have NOT made things better. What they have done in the case of DUI laws is made insurance companies & local govt.'s a nice source of revenue while it completely destroys the lives of the person arrested.

How would you feel if you went to dinner, had some wine, drove home...and blew that ridiculously low .08 and got arrested. You lose your license. You spend thousands of dollars on lawyers. Your insurance rates go through the roof (over the already insanely high prices we pay in the U.S.)

Do cops pulling people over actually saved lives? Who the fuck knows? Maybe it has, maybe it hasn't.

Saying that stats "prove" it, is bullshit.
The stats only prove that alcohol related deaths have went down.
Saying that it is all attributable to cops pulling over soccer moms blowing a .08 is just not factual.

There are tons of factors at play. Better roads, better cars, seat belts, hell a couple of decades ago cars didn't all have airbags.

In 1980 there were 51,091 traffic deaths in the U.S. (of all kinds)
In 2012 there were only 34,080

And that's even with a big population jump over 32 years.

So with those kinds of numbers...of COURSE alcohol related deaths would be down as well.

But you go ahead and believe what you want. God knows you never, ever consider any alternatives besides what you preconceive on any given subject.

2MuchMark · 06-08-2014, 08:19 PM

Loil Robbie, if you're going to pick on what I posted, at least read it first.

Goodnight.

Robbie · 06-08-2014, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by **********

Loil Robbie, if you're going to pick on what I posted, at least read it first.

Goodnight.

I did read it. As usual you are incorrect.

Goodnight to you too. Maybe some sleep will help clear your mind of the clutter.

06-07-2014, 03:55 PM	#59
AsianDivaGirlsWebDude Purveyor, Fine Asian Porn Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: San Francisco Bay Area Posts: 38,323	I think that it is safe to say that the "nuts" are the ones with guns behind much of the gun crime and gun killing, and most of them are pro-gun. Unfortunately, the NRA wants to make it easier for such nuts to acquire guns: NRA Trying ?To Make It Easier? For Criminals And Mentally Ill To Get Guns by Mark Kelly (retired US Astronaut, husband of former Congressperson Gabby Giffords): To want to put an end to the madness and suffering caused by the too easy availability of guns is a sane response to an unacceptable amount of death and suffering. This first video has good info about the history of gun control in America, including how the NRA was once a proponent of gun control; that is until the NRA leadership was taken over by shills for gun manufacturers in the 70's, whom are opposed to virtually any effort to bring some sanity to the wide availability and use of guns as an inanimate tool for causing widespread fear, suffering, and death, and are directly responsible for annually killing thousands of people indiscriminately: To the pro-gun nuts, what concrete proposals do you recommend/support to help stop the epidemic of gun violence? Love and Peace (a nice alternative to Hate and Violence), ADG __________________ Asian Diva Girls - Exclusive Photos and Videos Asian Diva Girls Affiliate Program (50% ccBill Revshare)

06-08-2014, 02:58 PM	#91
Robbie Leaner, Meaner, Faster Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegas Posts: 20,960	I know how to work Google. I also know that dui laws may or may not have anything to do with drunk driving deaths. I'm sure law enforcement will pat themselves on the back and congratulate themselves for pulling you over and ruining your life after you had 3 cocktails at dinner and are on the way home. Cars also got safer during that same time span and more people wear seat belts. But I'm sure that has nothing to do with anything. Also from that link: "It is important to note that the Florida drunk driving statistics, as shown above, include data from individuals who were in an alcohol-related crash, but not driving a motor vehicle at the time. The U.S. Department of Transportation defines alcohol-related deaths as "fatalities that occur in crashes where at least one driver or non-occupant (pedestrian or pedalcyclist) involved in the crash has a positive Blood Alcohol Concentration (BAC) value." As for the murder rate being higher in the 1970's in Florida? Average per year for that decade was 908 murders a year. Not "gun deaths", but murders. Average for 2010 to current time: 993 murders a year. So no, that is incorrect. Also keep in mind that the early part of the 1970's was coming off of a lot of civil unrest in our country and the ending of the Vietnam war. There was a lot of overall violence in bigger cities and riots. But in the small "normal" towns where people had guns? Not so much. The town I was in: Bartow, Fla. My mom was a deputy sheriff from 1972 to 1978. Gun murders? Very, very rare at that time. So thinking that gun racks in the back of pickups was in retrospect not very smart...I disagree. These days however, I would definitely NOT do that in a bigger city. Not only are the cops trigger happy to begin with...but somebody would just break into your vehicle and steal your gun. That's how those pesky criminals operate. They just don't "obey" the "law". lol __________________ -Robbie ClaudiaMarie.Com Last edited by Robbie; 06-08-2014 at 03:05 PM..

06-08-2014, 03:55 PM	#93
arock10 Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,218	Clearly we just need to decriminalize gun violence, since obviously it impedes on our human rights and doesn't accomplish anything. It will be immensely successful immediately sending violent crimes committed with guns to 0 __________________ Sup

06-08-2014, 07:13 PM	#98
Robbie Leaner, Meaner, Faster Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegas Posts: 20,960	Thanks for insulting me Mark. Now let me school you (it's so easy): On the scum who shoot underage...you are insinuating that they DO keep records? 2257 records? No wonder you sell software...you are NOT in the porn biz and don't know what the fuck you are talking about. There, got that easy one out of the way. As for your "So then how can they be arrested for a crime that is not a crime yet?" How slow are you man? Drink some coffee or something to stimulate your brain. What I said was to stop trying to create new crimes with preemptiveness. I happen to think it's been a "slippery slope" of allowing the govt. and cops to do that. As for the rest of your post...which I don't understand your constant need to do... I look at this broken system. I see that the things that have been done have NOT made things better. What they have done in the case of DUI laws is made insurance companies & local govt.'s a nice source of revenue while it completely destroys the lives of the person arrested. How would you feel if you went to dinner, had some wine, drove home...and blew that ridiculously low .08 and got arrested. You lose your license. You spend thousands of dollars on lawyers. Your insurance rates go through the roof (over the already insanely high prices we pay in the U.S.) Do cops pulling people over actually saved lives? Who the fuck knows? Maybe it has, maybe it hasn't. Saying that stats "prove" it, is bullshit. The stats only prove that alcohol related deaths have went down. Saying that it is all attributable to cops pulling over soccer moms blowing a .08 is just not factual. There are tons of factors at play. Better roads, better cars, seat belts, hell a couple of decades ago cars didn't all have airbags. In 1980 there were 51,091 traffic deaths in the U.S. (of all kinds) In 2012 there were only 34,080 And that's even with a big population jump over 32 years. So with those kinds of numbers...of COURSE alcohol related deaths would be down as well. But you go ahead and believe what you want. God knows you never, ever consider any alternatives besides what you preconceive on any given subject. __________________ -Robbie ClaudiaMarie.Com Last edited by Robbie; 06-08-2014 at 07:17 PM..

06-08-2014, 08:19 PM	#99
2MuchMark Videochat Solutions Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 48,581	Loil Robbie, if you're going to pick on what I posted, at least read it first. Goodnight. __________________ Custom Software \| Server Management \| Integration and Technology Solutions https://www.2much.net

06-07-2014, 10:01 AM	#51
Nomarh So fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: West Coast Posts: 192	50 guns don't kill people

06-07-2014, 04:51 PM	#64
Grapesoda So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Montana Posts: 46,238	dear shitbag larry, pls stay out of my threads AsianDivaGirlsWebDude is on your ignore list.

06-07-2014, 06:10 PM	#69
Seth Manson Please dont fuck animals Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Henderson, NV Posts: 3,988	Oh look, the foreigners are still babbling about what goes on in my country. You guys must live in complete boredom. Go outside or something.

06-08-2014, 05:58 PM	#95
Jel Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 6,904	As a UK resident, I wouldn't dream of needing to own a gun (these days, sice I've quietened down). If I were a USA resident I wouldn't even contemplate not owning one. the USA vs USA guys on guns is interesting to read, and I see tons of valid points on each side (aside from the hilarious 'we should ban knives, cars, etc too - sheesh, the difference is really not obvious??), but for those of us in countries where this whole chicken & egg situation where guns are so easily accessible by criminals, so you need to be sensible and have protection, yet if it weren't for guns being so accessible in the 1st place, tons of criminals wouldn't have them, has never existed - you can't use the situation around guns in your country to 'prove' anything about guns in the US. 2am so not the most coherent post I've ever made lol, but yeah, decipher it and you'll all see I'm spot on.