L-Pink

As America reacts to the most recent police shooting and the strong opinion on both sides grows I have a question.

There are 900,000 law enforcement officers across the country. Let's say there are 2 questionable shootings per month by accident or "killer cops" so 24 shootings, 900,000 cops that's 0.000026 percent.

Sure it's tragic when some gets shot that doesn't deserve it but what's a reasonable amount? Anyone that says zero is living in a fantasy world.


edit; Or, is this only a problem when it's a white shooter and black "victim" ?


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baddog

Logic has no place here

Grapesoda

.25% are blacks killed by cops... when you consider 80% of violent crime is committed by blacks that's a very low number indeed...

L-Pink

Thanks, sometimes I forget.


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iSpyCams

2 per month that make national news. How many that don't?

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L-Pink

So the figure might be a little higher. Still didn't answer the question.

Rochard

No matter what the stats tell us, it's still sad.

But yes, we have a lot of cops and not nearly as many shootings or deaths as one would imagine.

I love watching the COPs TV show. Cops are freaking amazing. They calmly drive to a call and they have no idea what is going down. Maybe it's a sick child or a woman choking or a kitten stuck in a tree. Or it might be called in to break up a fist fight or take down an armed felon alone.

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MiamiBoyz

To bad it's not 900,000 pigs shot per year in this country. Hopefully that day will come.

Oh and non of them "accidental".

TheSquealer

Being that the reaction is itself irrational and only loosely related to the event and "victim" and is a wholly emotional response, reason and logic aren't going to win it

It's all just basic tribalism. Us against them. Black against white. Us against the police... Etc. The events are often nothing more than an excuse to act out and for grievance pimps to cash in.

I heard Jesse Jackson taking about this event being part of a clear pattern and when challenged he could only list a few similar situations spanning a decade. Of course, that didn't slow him down in his rhetoric, blame and shameless fund raising while standing on a fresh corpse..

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brassmonkey

pig roast if given the chance take it

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TheSquealer

Idiots looting stores and destroying their neighborhood because they care so much about what's right.

L-Pink

And with this emotion and attitude the question of why the police showed up in riot/combat gear is answered.

brassmonkey

no they show up in riot gear because its a riot. any city that has a riot uses the same shit. college kids flipping over cars and fires riot gear. pink you really are playing stupid dogg.

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Markul

Interesting.

Denmark has 13,500 cops. Since 2001 they have managed to kill 15 people. That is around 1.2 a year. That makes it: 0.0088888888888889 percent in kill ratio per cop...

So I guess cops kill more people in Denmark than in the US

brassmonkey

a killing is a killing its not funny. watch the video of the homeless guy getting sprayed with bullets.

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Markul

Of course it isn't. I also happen to personally know one of the 15. He was an army buddy I was stationed with in Bosnia, apparently he lost it on march 10th, 2009 and attacked the cops with a sword and they shot him.

Anyway.

The reason the emoticon is laughing is because Denmark is (at least by Europeans) considered a very safe country to live in, so it's kinda amusing that it turns out cops kill more people here than in the US. Maybe that's why it's safer

brassmonkey

those are the ones reported. some are hidden

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Captain Kawaii

People need to get it into their heads that once they have been stopped they need to deal with it responsibly. Acting like a dumbass will only get you dead. You need to decide:

1. Do I want to get out of this and go home tonight.
2. Do I want to go to jail.
3. Do I want to make my loved ones cry by going full on retarded.

No medals handed out for dumbasses. Only coffins.

If they are declared good kills then that ratio is certainly acceptable. Cops do not need to put their lives on the line because of some criminal dumbass makes a bonehead move.

brassmonkey

if a cop shoots at me he will get an answer. im always ready

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tony286

they are shooting dogs, one every 98 mins.
http://www.wnd.com/2014/07/police-ta...ry-98-minutes/
Hiding behind I felt threatened, which is funny because the ups,fedex and postman seem to survive without shooting dogs at the drop of a hat.

aka123

There is no "reasonable" amount. Every case needs reaction, maybe not from the public, but at least the police has to enforce law within it's own troops and guilty folk sentenced normally.

Also, you counted it wrong. You shouldn't compare questionable shootings to the number of polices, instead you should compare it to the overal number of shootings. Even assuming that every police shoots one human per year, every year, which I doubt. So the number to compare is overall number of shootings.

aka123

Or maybe US just has more polices. But like I said, the number to compare against is not the number of polices, since that doesn't tell much about the legality of the shootings.

kane

There are around 313 million people living in the US. Every year, according to ABC news, about 360 people are killed by the police. The odds of being killed by a cop in the US are about 1 in 870,000.

as a comparison. around 550 people die shopping every Black Friday. Yes, you have a better chance of being killed going to Walmart on black Friday to get that good deal than you do of being killed by a cop.

aka123

How dying to natural causes while shopping is comparable to being shot by a cop.. sorry killed by a cop, wounded amount is unclear?

MiamiBoyz

Of course the odds of being killed in EITHER of those events goes WAY UP if you happen to be BLACK.

iSpyCams

A little bit? Do you live under a rock? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...s,_August_2014

According to this list 19 people have been killed by cops SO FAR THIS MONTH. That's over one a day.

This month's dead include 2 unarmed people with mental problems, and 2 people with bb guns, one of whom was trying to buy a bb-gun at walmart.

Stay under the rock, it's safer there.

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iSpyCams

Did it hurt when you pulled that data out of your ass? there have only been 7 total black Friday deaths since 2006. and ABC news is way of. On August 3rd of this year alone, 7 people were killed by police.

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L-Pink

The point I was trying to make is that with 900,000 cops why is it a surprise something like this happens.

brassmonkey

oh man if you get drunk riding that bike. you may join the shooting victims

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kane

I might be off on the black friday stuff. I am just going off what I read. The police stuff is pretty accurate. According to the FBI and many sources on average between 350-400 people per year are killed by the police. Not all of the deaths are via shooting, others come from other injuries.

kane

I won't argue that. According to what I read about 42% of those killed were white while 32% of those killed were black. Since black people only make up about 10% of the population the odds are much higher if you are black.

aka123

I don't think it is a surprise, but that doesn't make it any better.

kane

My point is that the odds of being killed by a cop are very high. While there are some innocent people who are just in the wrong place at the wrong time, most of these people die because they do something stupid.

bigluv

L-pink, the USA has never been a place where math meant anything.

September 11 tragedy, < 3000 deaths. USA spends, how many trillion? And how many lives of its own to go to war? And still doesn't remember, nobody can win wars like this. And today its like you guys were never there.

Get the big corporations out of politics, or simply make it criminal to cover up something like a recall, would've saved more lives and had a lasting effect. And you guys wouldn't be paupers.

You could've bought everyone that didn't have one a car with airbags for christs sake and saved more lives.

aka123

Well, that would be the NEWS!! if being killed by a cop would be very likely. Then you guys would have to establish anti-police-police and hope that it doesn't backfire as well.

I don't know about your sense of justice, but my sense of justice doesn't justify people being shot at just because they did something stupid.

Bladewire

You quoted .000026 percent and that's acceptable.

I've never met a cop I didn't like or that wasn't fair. No joke. I've heard of others having bad experiences and I know bad shit has happened, just my personal experience in life so far.

crockett

Perhaps if your wife or kid, assuming you have either were shot dead by cops. Would that be an acceptable percentage?

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kane

I won't for a second try to argue that some police shootings are wrong, illegal and the people doing them should be punished. I also won't argue that in some cases the police department covers things up or in some way finds a way to justify the shooting without a proper investigation.

Many cities, like the one I live in, now have citizen review boards for police shootings so there is a little more accountability to the public.

The bottom line is that the police need more training, but many departments are underfunded and the police are under-trained. Better leadership and better training might help decrease the number of people killed by the police per year.

All that said, when you look at the big picture and you see the number of crimes committed every year and the number of people arrested and you compare that to the number of people killed by the police, the number killed almost seems low to me.

Then again, I also know that with some people it doesn't matter what they do, the cops can't win and will always be the bad guy.

brassmonkey

never thought i would agree with you when it happens personal then they switch sides. seen it

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aka123

Some common sense would also help, even without training there should be a brain cell or two in the police's head.

We haven't many people being shot by a cop around here, but I don't think it's because of better training, the whole culture is differently. Here if you would try to be some macho sheriff, I guess you would be laughed out of police, if not being fired before that.

kane

Where do you live? Is it in the US?

Let me give you two scenarios and you tell me how you would react. These both happened to a friend of mine who is a cop.

1. It is late at night, about 1am and you get a call that a couple of guys were trying to break into someone's car. You head to the area and see two guys walking down the sidewalk. You pull over, get out of your car and talk to the guys. They are both wearing jackets and have their hands in their pockets because it is cold. You tell them to take their hands out of their pockets. One of them does while the other doesn't. You tell him again and this time he takes one hand out. As he slowly pulls the other hand out he is holding something. It is dark and all you can see is that it is is shiny and metallic. He lifts it up and points it in your direction. What do you do?

2. You and another cop go to a house to arrest a guy who has a warrant for being up his girlfriend. He has already shown a penchant for violence, but you hope he will not fight you. When you get to the house his roommate lets you in and the guy is sitting in his bedroom on his bed. You tell him about the warrant, he agrees and says he will go quietly, just let him put his shoes on. After he puts his shoes on he stands up. As you go to handcuff him he says, "I've changed my mind!" He pushes you back, takes a step forward, opens his dresser and pulls out a gun. He fires a shot. What do you do?

aka123

No, I do not live in USA. I think this place is called as Earth.

I don't understand your scenarios, I and pretty much everybody kills if necessary. But here are my answers.

1. Preferebly I would back off, since the other guy has upper hand. Or I would take my gun and order the other guy to stand down (enforcing the command by pointing with a gun). Or better yet, I would act before the situation develops to what you described.

2. I would shoot back, preferably not lethally. Or better yet, I wouldn't let the situation develop as you described. I have had military training and one important thing is not to let the situation to develop to the point where almost nothing is to be done. Being active, aggressive and decisive is important. When you are tied, blindfolded and against a wall, it's too late (literally and by figuratively speaking).

iSpyCams

Since you don't live in the USA your opinion on police brutality in the US and US law is of no consequence. Also since you suggest "shooting someone but preferably not lethally" you obviously don't know the first thing about guns or armed confrontations. So, while the questions were both pretty stupid and have no bearing on the situations at hand, your answers are even stupider.

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aka123

I can't have opinion about police in general or police in US, if I don't live in US? Or if I would live in US, maybe I would be some "leftist" or something, and again the same thing? You will always have some reason to ignore opinion you don't agree with.

I don't know about you guys, but at least in here "non US" using minimal force is the guideline and thus ending the situation with minimal injuries is preferred. Police's job is to take risks at the expence of his own life.

My answers were very good answers.

kane

In the US we are a culture of violance and a country that is saturated in guns. Danger can be around any corner. Around 120 cops are killed on the job every year so there is a real danger to the job. That is why I ask. You likely grew up and live in a place with a different culture.

Please tell me how you would have acted before the situation developed. He pulled over and got out of his car. The guys stopped walking and he asked them to take their hands out of their pockets. What more could have been done?

Again, the guy was being cooperative. How could they have done things differently to keep the situation from developing? Should they have just ran in the room, tackled him to the ground and kicked his ass? In 1 second he went from being cool to attacking them.

BTW police are trained normally to shoot to kill. If you wing the guy in the leg he can still shoot and kill you.

When you see that there are nearly 400 people killed by the police each year, most of them are situations like this where you, yourself, admit you would have used force.

There are shitty situations where people get killed that don't deserve it. When those happen they get a lot of attention. Earlier when I said most shootings are because people are being stupid, this is what I meant. This guy was being stupid.

For the record, in the first incident my buddy drew his gun but didn't fire. It turned out to be a small thermos. The guy thought it would be funny to offer the police some coffee. In the second case my buddy jumped forward, pushed the guy against the wall and hit him with a tazer which instantly subdued him. Here is the frightening part. The other office that was with him...froze in panic and just stood there.

iSpyCams

You can have all the opinions you want, but they are guaranteed to be ill-informed and inconsequential. As for your minimal force guideline, that may be correct however guns are for making holes in people. (this kills the person) They are used to kill and anyone who knows how to handle a firearm learns first, that the only reason ever to point a gun at someone is to kill them. Not to scare, impress, make a point, show you are serious, threaten or wound, but to kill. To use a gun for any other reason is not acceptable. This is fundamental.

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kane

In 2011 there were roughly 12.4 million people arrested in the united states. About 360 people were killed by police that same year. I would say most police encounters end with minimal force.

iSpyCams

Right now there are no official stats on officer involved shootings. The FBI has some incomplete data because apparently 96% of law enforcement agencies in the US do not provide statistics of that nature, to anyone. The 360 figure comes from the FBI's admittedly incomplete stats and even agragators of media reports (citing only incidents that make news) show higher rates if police killings.

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aka123

We have one of the highest gun densities per population in the world, but yes, the culture is differently in every way.


First of all, I preferably wouldn't be alone in the first place. In your first example it would have been a matter of speed from the moment I see something "shiny". Maybe I would be fast enough, maybe I wouldn't. Having upper hand (having unholstered gun) I would enforce my command to have hands up in the air.

In the second case I would have done the handcuffing so that he has little change fighting back, and even if a fight would occur, acting before he gets his gun (you know, "martial arts").

Around here police is trained to inflict minimal injuries (regarding the situation). Sometimes it means shooting to death, other times shooting to leg, etc.

aka123

We are talking about police, not you playing Rambo. Also our regular legislation requires using minimal force when defending whatever (besides war). Just common sense, maybe you just don't have it.

Shooting someone doesn't mean that the other guy always dies. You might have heard about wounding. Not to mention about pointing a gun. Your rule says that whenever police points his gun he would have to kill. LOL. Your rules are very fuckt up. How in fuck killing is better option than threatening, do you think that you do some sort of favour to the other guy? LOL, really.