News FBI stats actually prove that more guns = less crime. - Page 3 - GoFuckYourself.com

slapass · 11-20-2014, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Validus

How related are the topics of "lawful gun ownership" and "violent crimes with guns"?

Unless we have proof that supports gun crimes are committed with firearms acquired lawfully - is there an actual connection or does it expose some "marketing" tactics in support of another agenda?

If gun related crime is committed with firearms stolen from those who lawfully acquired them, than the storage and prevention of theft needs to get addressed, not the ownership and rights to have them... or not?

I believe the real issue is homicide rates and then possibly accidental deaths - not gun ownership itself.

Looking at murder rates on Wikipedia, the US is listed as #112 with a rate of 4.7 and Canada has a rate of 1.6 and listed at #170. Switzerland with a gun ownership rate of 45.7 guns per 100 residents, marking it the country ranked #4 for gun ownership, is ranked #206 with a murder rate of 0.6. These numbers seem to indicate that more guns does not = more murders.

The real issue is society or rather societies - the "willingness" to kill another person.

In Switzerland everyone has a gun and no one has ammo. Not saying they can't buy it or anything like that but it makes the numbers goofy.

Gun politics in Switzerland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

slapass · 11-20-2014, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronM

I don't watch Fox news. In fact, I don't pay much attention to any news channels.

Do you like it when people post wrong and ignorant information about the adult industry? Probably not.

Why are more people buying guns? For both fear and sport.

People can make all the bogus claims they like but the sales stats prove differently.

Unreasonable fear. Your title - "News FBI stats actually prove that more guns = less crime." Or did you forget that?

dyna mo · 11-20-2014, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slapass

Guns aren't prohibited. There is no law in the works to prohibit gun ownership that I am aware of. The debate is whether gun ownership is down or up.

I understand guns are not prohibited. I also understand there is no law in the works to prohibit gun ownership. You do not understand that the debate is not whether gun ownership is up or down, the debate here is guns in America.

here is our dialogue-

I posted this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyna mo

here's the thing, gun hater Canadians-

1. USA cannot put the gun genie back in the bottle, please see what happened when we tried that with liqour.

2. this country was built on guns, tobacco, and liquor, you cannot change that history, instead, accept it and move on

3. guns are intrinsically linked to our fundamental rights, as you know.

4. reality.

4. 'Merica, fuck yeah.

in reaction to my comment, you posted this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by slapass

Old people own guns and they are dying off. Check the stats. The genie is dying, so soon we might be a decent society like the rest of the developed world.

the genie is not dying. Again, prohibition does not work (which is what anti-gun Canadians advocate, thus my pointing my comment to them), it doesn't matter if gun owbnership is up down or sideways and it certainly doesn't matter what the average age is of a gun owner. 260+ years of history, our founding document and the absolute fact this country was built on guns, again, all very real.

darkman1986 · 11-20-2014, 10:00 AM

as long as there's mankind there will be crime

AaronM · 11-20-2014, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slapass

Unreasonable fear. Your title - "News FBI stats actually prove that more guns = less crime." Or did you forget that?

Unreasonable? How so? And what does that have to do with the thread title?

There are more things to fear than violence. Many people are buying guns now because they are afraid that the Government will be taking that right away soon.

AaronM · 11-20-2014, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyna mo

...Again, prohibition does not work (which is what anti-gun Canadians advocate, thus my pointing my comment to them), it doesn't matter if gun owbnership is up down or sideways and it certainly doesn't matter what the average age is of a gun owner. 260+ years of history, our founding document and the absolute fact this country was built on guns, again, all very real.

This^^^^

2MuchMark · 11-20-2014, 10:20 AM

Here's an idea that might blow some minds...

What if (Just what if), all of the gun violence in America, has nothing to do with guns? What if something else is going?

For example, let's take biased media. When you watch Fox News, the overall picture that is painted by them always seems to be Worry. Panic. Be Afraid. Big Government is taking things away from you. Bad. Scary. Hate for the current president. Disdain. Fear of change.

When you watch MSNBC, the picture they seem to paint is Question. Why. Control from big business. Concern.

Obviously, the effects of both left and right media are very polarizing. Most people are either in 1 camp or the other.

I would argue that the "real news" comes from MSNBC, while the "Bullshit" "news" comes from Fox. I know many here will disagree with me on this but that isn't the point of my post. My point is this: Can the fear, confusion and misinformation put out by right wing media be a cause for a significant amount of gun violence?

AaronM · 11-20-2014, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by **********

Here's an idea that might blow some minds...

What if (Just what if), all of the gun violence in America, has nothing to do with guns? What if something else is going?

For example, let's take biased media. When you watch Fox News, the overall picture that is painted by them always seems to be Worry. Panic. Be Afraid. Big Government is taking things away from you. Bad. Scary. Hate for the current president. Disdain. Fear of change.

When you watch MSNBC, the picture they seem to paint is Question. Why. Control from big business. Concern.

Obviously, the effects of both left and right media are very polarizing. Most people are either in 1 camp or the other.

I would argue that the "real news" comes from MSNBC, while the "Bullshit" "news" comes from Fox. I know many here will disagree with me on this but that isn't the point of my post. My point is this: Can the fear, confusion and misinformation put out by right wing media be a cause for a significant amount of gun violence?

I'd agree with most of what you're saying. However, I believe BOTH sides are to blame. The way I see it, the media in general fuels much of the violence in America.

IMHO, the group most responsible for gun violence is shitty parents.

dyna mo · 11-20-2014, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by **********

all of the gun violence in America,

Why not tackle the big killers first? I mean really, gun deaths, gun related shit is just a fraction of the others.

AaronM · 11-20-2014, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyna mo

Why not tackle the big killers first? I mean really, gun deaths, gun related shit is just a fraction of the others.

In a word? Politics.

Maybe gun companies should start giving company shares to politicians.

dyna mo · 11-20-2014, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronM

In a word? Politics.

Maybe gun companies should start giving company shares to politicians.

this would explain why people like ********** don't understand the reality of America and guns. I'm not trolling ********** here, but he is politically inclined and also very current on being updated by the media on politics and politically polarized issues.

remove those biases/controls and more Canadians would be able to see things in a more realistic way.

Rochard · 11-20-2014, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyna mo

Why not tackle the big killers first? I mean really, gun deaths, gun related shit is just a fraction of the others.

I think we should ban cigarettes. Nasty. I smoked for twenty years and I am glad to have that monkey off my back.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronM

In a word? Politics.

Maybe gun companies should start giving company shares to politicians.

They do. It's called "campaign contributions".

AaronM · 11-20-2014, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

I think we should ban cigarettes. Nasty. I smoked for twenty years and I am glad to have that monkey off my back.

Of course you do. "Freedom" isn't exactly something that you've shown much backbone to support.

Now...About those tax stamps for your "Assault Rifles".....?

trevesty · 11-20-2014, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronM

If you're not posting your opinions then WTF is this? It's certainly not factual...

So you're projecting then.

trevesty · 11-20-2014, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronM

I don't watch Fox news. In fact, I don't pay much attention to any news channels.

Do you like it when people post wrong and ignorant information about the adult industry? Probably not.

Why are more people buying guns? For both fear and sport.

People can make all the bogus claims they like but the sales stats prove differently.

Sales can easily be driven up by individuals buying a new gun all the time.

Back in MO, I can think of 10 people off the top of my head who own over 100 guns.

That doesn't mean that gun ownership is going up, though. That would imply amount of people who own guns is increasing. It does, however, mean that firearm sales are up.

They are two different things.

What was I saying about analyzing data?

AaronM · 11-20-2014, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyna mo

this would explain why people like ********** don't understand the reality of America and guns. I'm not trolling ********** here, but he is politically inclined and also very current on being updated by the media on politics and politically polarized issues.

remove those biases/controls and more Canadians would be able to see things in a more realistic way.

Honestly, most people outside of the U.S. can't relate because their laws are so different. It's a cultural thing.

As we previously mentioned, firearms are the basis for American freedom.

AaronM · 11-20-2014, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trevesty

Sales can easily be driven up by individuals buying a new gun all the time.

Back in MO, I can think of 10 people off the top of my head who own over 100 guns.

That doesn't mean that gun ownership is going up, though. That would imply amount of people who own guns is increasing. It does, however, mean that firearm sales are up.

They are two different things.

What was I saying about analyzing data?

Maybe I should be a little more clear...

I personally own multiple firearms related businesses. I have 2 type 7 FFLs with Class 2 SOT's (that means I can manufacture and sell SBR's, suppressors and machine guns) and have even helped another GFYer establish the same licensing for one of their gun businesses. I have extensive experience running websites for multiple gun stores owned by others which gives me access to their sales figures and statistics. I've worked the sales counters at many gun stores and the tables at many gun shows. My PERSONAL experiences show me the true numbers. This is first hand knowledge of the firearms industry which you simply do not have.

Yes, there are those who have large collections who continue to buy, however, FIRST TIME gun purchasers have been increasing yearly.

I'm able to confidently tell you that you're incorrect because, unlike you, I'm actually involved in the industry.

In your eyes, anything I post is now "pro-gun propaganda" so I suppose you will just continue to go on with your ignorance....

SongRider · 11-20-2014, 11:40 AM

Other countries only seem to complain about America's "Gun Culture" when they are not inviting us to bring our guns over and stop an invading army...

slapass · 11-20-2014, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyna mo

I understand guns are not prohibited. I also understand there is no law in the works to prohibit gun ownership. You do not understand that the debate is not whether gun ownership is up or down, the debate here is guns in America.

here is our dialogue-

I posted this:

in reaction to my comment, you posted this:

the genie is not dying. Again, prohibition does not work (which is what anti-gun Canadians advocate, thus my pointing my comment to them), it doesn't matter if gun owbnership is up down or sideways and it certainly doesn't matter what the average age is of a gun owner. 260+ years of history, our founding document and the absolute fact this country was built on guns, again, all very real.

I guess I don't see the fact that less people want to own guns as prohibition. That is still free choice. I meant that since the average age of gun owners is older, and they are dying off. Thus gun ownership in America is going down, and we have a safer more normal society.

And just a heads up but Canada does not prohibit all gun ownership.

slapass · 11-20-2014, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronM

Unreasonable? How so? And what does that have to do with the thread title?

There are more things to fear than violence. Many people are buying guns now because they are afraid that the Government will be taking that right away soon.

The Feds weren't even able to ban oversized clips. I think if you bought a gun because you are afraid they will be banned, it is easy to prove that was unreasonable.

Like smoking, guns are solving themselves. It is slow but steady.

AaronM · 11-20-2014, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slapass

The Feds weren't even able to ban oversized clips. I think if you bought a gun because you are afraid they will be banned, it is easy to prove that was unreasonable.

Like smoking, guns are solving themselves. It is slow but steady.

What's an "oversized clip"?

Oh....You mean a "high capacity magazine"...

Yes, clearly you're an expert in these fields....

AaronM · 11-20-2014, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slapass

...I meant that since the average age of gun owners is older, and they are dying off. Thus gun ownership in America is going down, and we have a safer more normal society...

Because when people die, the guns they own go to heaven with them?

Or, perhaps those guns are passed down to the children and grandchildren? Maybe even sold to dealers who re-sell them to others, both new and current gun owners?

Nah....Those guns vanish...I'm quite sure of it! All the surveys support this so it must be factual.

dyna mo · 11-20-2014, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slapass

And just a heads up but Canada does not prohibit all gun ownership.

You and I know this but I'm quoting it for the Canadians who want to ban guns in `Merica, fuck yeah.

sonofsam · 11-20-2014, 12:56 PM

In this thread: AaronM calls out people for not posting hard date....then proceeds to not post hard data because he has "personal experience in the industry"

what an idiot

AaronM · 11-20-2014, 12:58 PM

Oh look....More pro-gun propaganda. This time from the gun bullies at Forbes Magazine.

Disarming Realities: As Gun Sales Soar, Gun Crimes Plummet - Forbes

slapass · 11-20-2014, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronM

Because when people die, the guns they own go to heaven with them?

Or, perhaps those guns are passed down to the children and grandchildren? Maybe even sold to dealers who re-sell them to others, both new and current gun owners?

Nah....Those guns vanish...I'm quite sure of it! All the surveys support this so it must be factual.

Less people own guns. The people who do, own more guns. I am pretty sure this has been established.

I do find it weird that gun owners are so paranoid but sort of makes sense.

AaronM · 11-20-2014, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slapass

Less people own guns. The people who do, own more guns. I am pretty sure this has been established.

No, it hasn't been established. It's a bullshit rumor that is perpetuated by people like you.

Validus · 11-20-2014, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slapass

In Switzerland everyone has a gun and no one has ammo. Not saying they can't buy it or anything like that but it makes the numbers goofy.

Gun politics in Switzerland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Okay. That is fair, I didn't know that nobody has ammunition.

Serbia is ranked #183 with a murder ratio of 1.2 per 100,000 residents and ranks #2 country for gun ownership with 58.2 guns per 100 residents. How about Finland, list as #5 country for gun ownership with 45.3 guns per 100 residents, ranking #171 on the murder per 100,000 residents list with a ratio of 1.6. Gun ownership doesn?t promote murders, it?s a social problem.

mineistaken · 11-20-2014, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clay

Chart: The U.S. has far more gun-related killings than any other developed country - The Washington Post

Looks to me like the more guns there are the more death there is. Plenty of charts to back it up

heres one

I am not on either side as I did not invest my time researching, just noticing that you and Op talks about completely different things. Op talks about "less crime" (scare of the gun prevents crime as an example) and you talk about "less gun deaths".

slapass · 11-20-2014, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronM

No, it hasn't been established. It's a bullshit rumor that is perpetuated by people like you.

Ok then.

11-20-2014, 10:20 AM	#107
2MuchMark Videochat Solutions Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 48,537	Here's an idea that might blow some minds... What if (Just what if), all of the gun violence in America, has nothing to do with guns? What if something else is going? For example, let's take biased media. When you watch Fox News, the overall picture that is painted by them always seems to be Worry. Panic. Be Afraid. Big Government is taking things away from you. Bad. Scary. Hate for the current president. Disdain. Fear of change. When you watch MSNBC, the picture they seem to paint is Question. Why. Control from big business. Concern. Obviously, the effects of both left and right media are very polarizing. Most people are either in 1 camp or the other. I would argue that the "real news" comes from MSNBC, while the "Bullshit" "news" comes from Fox. I know many here will disagree with me on this but that isn't the point of my post. My point is this: Can the fear, confusion and misinformation put out by right wing media be a cause for a significant amount of gun violence? __________________ VideoChat Solutions \| Custom Software \| IT Support https://www.2much.net \| https://www.lcntech.com

11-20-2014, 12:56 PM	#124
sonofsam Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Vancouver Posts: 18,638	In this thread: AaronM calls out people for not posting hard date....then proceeds to not post hard data because he has "personal experience in the industry" what an idiot __________________ I like turtles.

11-20-2014, 10:00 AM	#104
darkman1986 Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 35	as long as there's mankind there will be crime

11-20-2014, 11:40 AM	#118
SongRider Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: KY- The state not the jelly Posts: 648	Other countries only seem to complain about America's "Gun Culture" when they are not inviting us to bring our guns over and stop an invading army...

11-20-2014, 12:58 PM	#125
AaronM Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: ┌∩┐ ◣_◢ ┌∩┐ Posts: 46,909	Oh look....More pro-gun propaganda. This time from the gun bullies at Forbes Magazine. Disarming Realities: As Gun Sales Soar, Gun Crimes Plummet - Forbes