woj

50 proxy wars

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spads

Russians conveniently forget why there's an "ethnic Russian population" that needs "saving" in Crimea. Stalin thought it would be a great idea to mass relocate the original residents of the Crimean peninsula to central Asia and then moved in Russians in their place. Good job comrades, you solved the problem you created lol

hadden

spads

Afghanistan- massive fuckup on our part since we originally armed the Taliban. However, why did we arm them? Oh yeah that's right, Russia was attempting to invade the region BEFORE we got involved.

Korea- the Russian backed North Korea was attempting to invade South Korea. Big surprise the side backed by Russia was the aggressor. We responded to a request from south Korea to fight off North Korea. Also, looking at how history played out for those two countries, looks like Russia picked the wrong allies

The Yugoslavian war was a NATO operation, so its hardly just a US war. You might as well say that WWI and WWII was solely because of the US.

Also, while the US isn't the best country, its a hell of a lot better than Russia to live in. You don't have to even read US propaganda to know that. You can read any of the hundreds of independent quality of life surveys to find that out.

crockett

This... the only reason Russia has been even somewhat "peaceful" is because they have been broke since the 90's and 90% of their military has been mothballed until recently and what do you know? Soon as they start dusting off the military hardware they invade Ukraine..

just a punk

That's a very doubtful statement. I've been to both Russia and States and I have something to compare. I do not happy with our government and Putin personally, but I would still never move to the USA. Southern Europe (e.g. Spain) looks like a good place to me (thinking to buy a house at the sea shore in Catalonia). There is no all that violence like in the USA where police kill more citizens than terrorists do, lack of free medicine, lack of free education etc. The only thing I like about the States is your climate. Russia is mostly cold and winter in Moscow is very depressing (you can't see the sun for weeks - only low gray clouds above). On the other hand, we have no hurricanes, tornadoes and earthquakes here

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Obey the Cowgod

spads

Just Google quality of life by country, human development index, or mercer city index. Let me know if Russia comes ahead of the US on any of those reports.

just a punk

I don't care about abstract numbers and indexes. The things I care about I've mentioned already in my post above. I've been to the USA (have visited a dozen of states there) and it's definitely not a country I would like to live in

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Obey the Cowgod

spads

Yeah why pay attention to things like facts and statistics?

_Richard_

go team..

just a punk

Statistics is noting. As about the facts, so here they are:

1) High level of violence (police violence, lots of street crime, mass shooting cases etc).
2) No free medicine.
3) No free education.
4) High taxes.
5) High level of bureaucracy (about the same as in here Russia).
6) Very repressive laws, especially for economical crimes (check out this resonant case which happened to an Ukrainian guy I knew via Russian webmaster forums). Hell, you still have a death penalty there!
7) Different values of life. I've grown in the European society and feel much more comfortable in Europe.

These are just the most important ones than came to my mind. If you grown there, you accept them "as is", but for me they are absolutely unacceptable when considering a potential place of living.

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Obey the Cowgod

RummyBoy

BBC News - Ukraine conflict: US 'may supply arms to Ukraine'

Well Obama just announced in a live conference, that he is considering supplying lethal defensive arms (ie lethal weapons) to Ukraine so it looks a nice proxy war is brewing.

Putin, over to you mate, its your move... and don't bother jumping on a horse with your shirt off, that won't help!

aka123

I sincerely hope that Putin does something that doesn't help. I hope that Russia loses this one (war against Ukraine).

You should give some bad advices to your mate.

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just a punk

Georgian army was almost fully equipped with the modern US weapon. The Georgian soldiers were trained by the US instructors. And how long Georgia was able to least against Russia in the open war?



On the other hand, Ukrainians will get a chance to make some money on selling all that weapon to Assad

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Obey the Cowgod

femdomdestiny

Time to warm up all those tanks.As usually, US pushed people to new war and will make profit on it. this time,Russia should answer fast and hard ,without gloves. Straight for Kiev. Nazis will run away fast.

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Femdom Destiny


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_Richard_

he is attempting to get hired for the 'anti-corruption' post in Ukraine

aka123

And you are not Russian or something like that? Good one.

Russia should answer to what? It is already attacking Ukraine, and is the one who is attacking altogether. Is it going to answer to its own attack?

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femdomdestiny

What you don't get is that most of the world don't have nazi origin as you which means that you don't have to be Russian to agree and support them.

What you also don't get is that there are people that already went through all this where Ukraine is now.

If Russians reacted properly, not so many lives would be lost (together with people burnt alive in Odessa ).

People who think that Russia should or will let nazis group in their backyard are insane. After liberating most of Europe from nazi and lost so many millions of lives in process, as I am concerned, they are only one what have moral right to stop same scenario once again.

Unfortunately , ordinary people are dying,losing homes and suffering ...but how would US make profit it there is no suffering, so it was expected.

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Femdom Destiny


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aka123

Why in fuck would somebody support Russia, if he ain't Russian in a way or another? Or support any other nation (besides own) at that way altogether?

You have watched too much propaganda, as can be seen from those nazi talks. Besides Soviet Union was as worse as Nazis, so what is the moral right? Moral right to be as asshole? Soviet Union killed millions and suppressed hundreds millions for many, many decades, far longer than Nazis. From two assholes, the Soviets just happened to be the one which won.

From two evils, I prefer to choose neither.

War in Ukraine would have stopped in no time, if Russia would have stopped supporting the rebels and stopped sending its troops to Ukraine. Russia is the one that prolongs that war, and is the primary cause for it.

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femdomdestiny

Anyone that had experience with Germans or NATO in modern history know what dirty things are they doing. Once you are in perspective of someone who lost 5 relatives back in WW2 because Croatian Ustase burned them alive (similar what happened in Odessa) and that have very vivid memory what NATO was doing (bombing schools,theaters, markets, hospitals, helping muslim terrorists, etc) you will understand how would anyone support nation that is not his own. Beside mentioned , I 've witnessed two wars in last decades and was affected as many other people and from that perspective I think I do have more info how things are working compared to someone talking about millions of killed by Russians,from his warm room. That kind of shit is equal to mass graves used as excuse or WMD in Iraq.

Scenario in Ukraine is very,very similar to what was done in Yugoslavia. It seems that Ukrainians are even more stupid than Yugoslavs, what is hard to believe , at first.

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Femdom Destiny


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aka123

Russia supported wars in Balkan, the same ones which Nato did participate too, but the other side; your's side apparently. Your side did quite a lot off war crimes; that was the reason for Nato to participate in the first place.

I suppose you are writing from a warm room too. So what?

And what comes to old WWII stuff, Russia did attack to Finland, and we had two wars altogether during WWII (against Russia). Both of my drandparents fought, other one wounded, but luckily recovered.

You are the one constantly talking about Nazis, so there shouldn't be a problem mentioning the other side too.

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femdomdestiny

After reading your previous statements I've made one simple conclusion: you are missing tons.....once again....tons of info about Balkans at first place. It is completely illusory to polemicize with person that can state thing you just did.

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Femdom Destiny


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aka123

I know how to read Wikipedia. I also lived that time (here in Finland), there were a news or two about it.

You just are not happy, because I am not taking your side.

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femdomdestiny

Nope. You don't have 1% from info about what happened and what is currently happening in this part of Europe. That is all. Why would I loose time trying to change your mind? It took me few years to do it for some people that are now my good friends ("from the heart of western Europe") but they had to come, visit and read a lot before they finally stated that they were blind and under heavy influence of served information. So , once again, there I do not care about "sides" you are mentioning or your opinion. That is all. You are free to investigate on your own and bring into question what you are reading, just like anyone in the world.

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aka123

So, in simple: it takes a shit load of propaganda and brainwash to adopt your view; whatever that is in detail.

I know that both sides did shitty things in Balkan, that reads straight in the Wikipedia. That still isn't making me wanting Russians to attack fellow countries. Or it doesn't make it OK for all the shit your side did, or the other side did.

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directfiesta

The cause for the civil war in Ukraine is pretty clear and simple :

The citizens of ethnic russian regions of Ukraine, which had voted for an elected president of their choice ( - which won ) did not want to be rules by a junta ( regime ) that was clearly promoting repression of anything relating or ressembling Russia .

They asked for a special status ( semi-autonomous regions ) that was denied . They took arms to defend their territory and did a referendum on the statut of the region.
That was not recognized by Kiev that did their own elections without the participation of these citizens .

As Russia this or that, who the hell knows. We do know that the USA are actively invovled in Ukraine and being the puppetmaster

pornmasta

no no no,
Scientists Theorize Why Black Athletes Run Fastest

(btw here it is racist to claim that)

pornmasta

one of the problem is that our politics (especially obama and hollande) hate putin's style, so they want to humiliate his ostentatious and exaggerated manhood.
The problem is that you can never reach peace if you try to humiliate your ennemy and that's true for ukraine but also true for russia...

crockett

I'm pretty sure it was the Nazis whom did the invading and taking over of other countries land. Perhaps you should recheck your history books and reclassify whom plays the Nazi role this go around..

pornmasta

you can't handle kiev, but you can handle the east of ukraine and it's a problem of population not a problem of war theory

aka123

More simple: Russia minded president was thrown away; there weren't that much or any degotiations about semi-autonomous or such (by either side). Russia invaded and annexed Crimea. Russia backed and probably provoked rebels took over in parts of Eastern Ukraine.

Russia this and that is quite clear, as Crimea is now officially part of Russia, and the rebels can't continue shit without Russia's support.

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just a punk

Another proof that States don't give a shit about Ukraine and it citizens, but simple use it for a proxy war against Russia:



https://twitter.com/Truth_Seeker_11/...241280/photo/1

Just a business, as usually

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Obey the Cowgod

RummyBoy

As you say, business per usual....
Former secretary of US treasury, Paul Craig Roberts:

_Richard_

you missed the part where the regime simply sent tanks and military to 'take control' of the government for those regions. the arms were taken up when the military started actually firing those tanks.

the part that entirely gets overlooked is simple:

What happens to all these people if they were to 'surrender'? do they get odd golden shapes given to them, put to work with no hope of ever voting? Or do they get 'removed' somehow to 'remove' the russian 'infiltration'?

aka123

What people, you mean the rebels or the citizens of these areas, those can of course overlap somewhat? There are already people in various cities not under rebels, and there were/ are cities that were taken back from the rebels. So, there you go, you have example what has happened.

Also, what if you seek example what has happened elsewhere. There is not that much putting to work with no hoping to ever vote. I mean in civil wars. But the Russian soldiers would be kicked out of the country for sure, and I am quite sure that Russia does want them back.

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just a punk

Howe simple and straight he explains the obvious things (this is something you won't expect to hear from US politician nowadays) that every party knows but pretends it's no so. Well looks like some Ukrainians don't understand the fact they are being used, but Americans and Russians definitely understand what's really is going on around

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Obey the Cowgod

MetaMan

what dont you understand? of course they understand they are being both sides.

they prefer to be on the american side. this is the entire point of what is happening.

i find it hilarious when people actually believe that ukrainians want to be cozy with russia. have you read any history books?

aka123

They want to be on their own side, and good relations with USA supports that.

What is the American side anyways? Why would someone want to be on American side per se? Besidess it serving their own purposes?

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aka123

Yes of course; without the using part Ukraine would happily give everything to Russia. There is no doubt about that.

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MetaMan

you are correct. i mean in terms of they prefer to align away from russian control.

RummyBoy

That's why I really like this guy........ he always tells it exactly like it is, doesn't sugar coat and understands the real issues which 99% of mainstream people (the sheeple as you say) don't get.

just a punk

He always explain how the free media works in democratic States. In fact, quite the exact way as the non-free media works in anti-democratic Russia. Oops, surprise

Like Georgia did. What do they've got from it? They lost war, lost a lot of their soldiers and weapon. At last they lost control on a rather huge part of their territory. Have the States helped Georgians? Have they started a war against Russia to protect their "ally"? No they did nothing. Just stood aside and laughing at their crying and pleading for the protection puppy. That was just a business as usually. Too bad the Ukrainians don't learn on others mistakes. Paul Craig Roberts has mentioned it as well.

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Obey the Cowgod

directfiesta

An " OUPSsss " moment

aka123

So Ukraine should bend deeply to Russia and say; "Yes, masters."

It really doesn't work that way. For example: personally I think it is good that my country (Finland as you know) has good relations to Russia; but there is a limit to what it keeps inside. We don't swallow anything.

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aka123

Both US and Russia thinks that everything is about them. Like some spoiled childs.

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MetaMan

I understand how the Americans can operate globally. I don't have this view that they are a God send for the Ukrainian people or the liberators like you see in the movies.

My grandpa used to tell me stories of the Ukrainian underground how the soviets had his friends executed. How after WW2 the soviets tried to force them back onto farms and they fled. How they were never able to speak to their parents again.

Ukrainian famine etc etc.

The way people make it sound like the general Ukrainians want to be aligned with Russians is just not true.

Yes Ukraine does have a alot of Russian and Russian speakers. But this was a plan by the soviets to install pro russian population into the east of Ukraine to keep their control. Influence through language and economics. It is like me buying the houses next to you for your "enemies" and then telling you to leave the neighborhood.

Even the russian foreign minister admitted there was an exact plan for Ukraine.

The Ukrainian people in general do not want war. They are a relaxed people. Are they getting played by both sides for sure.

I have heard from people in Crimea that said that the polling stations were full of pro Russians with guns watching your votes. So you can guess why i may have trouble respecting that "vote". The average population there just wants peace. they are simple people and do not want war.

Many people in these areas have lost their business' homes and everything. to make it sound like they prefer to be "russian" is not true at all. they wanted to be left alone to live their simple lives. And now are caught in a game with both sides clawing at them.

just a punk

I don't know what shit do you smoke, but you need to find a new drug dealer. There was no Ukraine and no "ethnic Ukrainians" before 1917. It was just a part of Russian Empire, called Malorossia (just a regular region like Belorussia, Moskovia, Siberia etc). The modern Ukraine has the borders of the Ukrainian Soviet Socialistic Republic, created by Lenin and Stalin (those just joined some parts of Russia with territories annexed from Poland/Moldova/Hungary and named it as Soviet Republic). Look at the map and please stop posting nonsense:



Now it's going to end up like it was with Georgia. The one must be a complete idiot to trust in "friendship" with States and hope for their help. They will chew you and spit you out like they did with their former allies like Saddam or Saakashvili.

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Obey the Cowgod

_Richard_

taken back? how do you 'take back' cities that already belong to those people? you start 'moving your own people in'? how does the government plan to get around 'these people' voting for the very same politicians that were in power in the first place?

yes, what i 'seek as an example' has happened elsewhere. in history. during an extremely dark time in history with the same flags being waved around.

you can keep doing the brand spanking new 'ministry of propaganda' job for them, but these are real questions currently being asked.

crockett

Since 1917 is so fresh in your mind, do you also recall 1921 when Russians were eating human flesh as canibals because they had nothing else to eat?

Americans were responsible for feeding tens of thousands of Russians, saving their lives. Not to mention we also helped bail you out during WW2 with sending you shitloads of military hardware via the lendlease program..

However Ruskie propaganda probably never taught you that..

just a punk

What are you talking about? Are you drunk or what?

The Americans (e.g. Dorangel Vargas, Kevin Ray Underwood and many others) were eating human flesh as cannibals just recently and NOT because they had nothing else to eat (I guess). Honestly I don't know why those Amerikansye eat other people. However, I have no idea how it could be related to my post above about the borders of Ukraine and so-called "ethnic Ukrainians" before Soviet Socialistic Revolution of 1917.

Course it's always easier to provide food in exchange for the GOLD, instead of fighting like man at war (coward will be coward forever). It was just a business for you, as usually. The Soviet Union lost millions of human lives protecting your cowardly country + whole Western Europe while you made a bank "helping" Soviets by selling them food and weapon for the gold. Why I'm not surprised?

And this clown tries to tell me about propaganda?

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Obey the Cowgod