To people who use Obamacare, are you going to renew your coverage this year?

[clickhappy]

Its time to renew by the end of December. Are you going to renew?
I'm not sure how it works but if you renew it and in January Obamacare is shut down, do you still have insurance or is that gone?

I dont know if I should bother renewing now

[C H R I S]

Originally Posted by clickhappy

Its time to renew by the end of December. Are you going to renew?
I'm not sure how it works but if you renew it and in January Obamacare is shut down, do you still have insurance or is that gone?

I dont know if I should bother renewing now

You should renew.

It will take many months to dismantle, Trump isnt going to strip 20 million people insurance with the swipe of a pen. There will be a period to allow people to get new insurance.

If your healthy save the money and go insuranceless...

[onwebcam]

I think the penalty will be gone the first day but it will take awhile for a replacement.

[kane]

I will renew. As others have said, Trump can't just walk into the White House and throw Obamacare out. I was reading the other day that actually getting rid of the entire thing will likely be pretty difficult so they will most likely start defunding parts of it and making changes.

Trump and the Republicans are likely smart enough to know if they just take away 20 million people's heath insurance and don't replace it with something comparable there will be hell to pay during the next election.

[woj]

Originally Posted by kane

I will renew. As others have said, Trump can't just walk into the White House and throw Obamacare out. I was reading the other day that actually getting rid of the entire thing will likely be pretty difficult so they will most likely start defunding parts of it and making changes.

Trump and the Republicans are likely smart enough to know if they just take away 20 million people's heath insurance and don't replace it with something comparable there will be hell to pay during the next election.

they don't need to do anything... they will just make sure the premiums continue to rise by 30% per year, that insurers continue to exit the markets, etc, like they have been, and it will collapse on it's own... this way there will be no one to blame, except Obama who put together a plan that was destined to fail from the beginning...

[kane]

Originally Posted by woj

they don't need to do anything... they will just make sure the premiums continue to rise by 30% per year, that insurers continue to exit the markets, etc, like they have been, and it will collapse on it's own... this way there will be no one to blame, except Obama who put together a plan that was destined to fail from the beginning...

They could do that, but I don't think they will. Trump has made repealing and replacing Obamacare one of the cornerstones of his campaign and has said it will be one of the first things they tackle when he takes office. I read a story this morning that speculates that Trump and the Republicans may just make a few small changes, fix a few of the problems with it and the rebrand it.

I guess we will find out soon enough.

[Barry-xlovecam]

Sure, why not.

If something better comes along you can cancel the policy.

The policy terms and coverages are good for the term they are underwritten for: the entire year 2017.

[NatalieK]

you all should renew your obamacare, considering Donald thinks it maybe a good idea to keep it

Donald Trump reconsiders Obamacare scrap pledge following talks with Barack Obama | London Evening Standard

[Rochard]

Obamacare....

The reality of this is Obamacare works. We have more Americans with healthcare than ever before. For me, Obamacare is working great. The subsidies cover most of the costs, and although my wife's employer is not required to they pick up the rest. I have Kaiser, which is pretty good. In fact, It's the same healthcare I had before Obamacare, and nothing has really changed. Honestly we do not use it much.

I can understand why some people think it doesn't work - they are forced to pay a lot of money for healthcare.

A huge part of the problem is you cannot just get rid of it. I guess you can, but if the were to instantly do that tens of millions of people will loose their healthcare.

Our government - meaning our Congress - needs to fix what is wrong with Obamacare, not replace it.

[baddog]

It is not right to fine someone for not having insurance

[woj]

Originally Posted by Rochard

Obamacare....

The reality of this is Obamacare works. We have more Americans with healthcare than ever before. For me, Obamacare is working great. The subsidies cover most of the costs, and although my wife's employer is not required to they pick up the rest. I have Kaiser, which is pretty good. In fact, It's the same healthcare I had before Obamacare, and nothing has really changed. Honestly we do not use it much.

I can understand why some people think it doesn't work - they are forced to pay a lot of money for healthcare.

A huge part of the problem is you cannot just get rid of it. I guess you can, but if the were to instantly do that tens of millions of people will loose their healthcare.

Our government - meaning our Congress - needs to fix what is wrong with Obamacare, not replace it.

Nothing works about it, the whole point was that it would lower costs, and it hasn't done that at all... in fact costs have increased faster after ObamaCare got implemented, so it's a complete failure...

the only reason there is an illusion that it "works" is because there is a group of suckers who are forced by law to buy overpriced insurance they do not need or want in order to subsidize others...

it's only a matter of time before either the insurance mandate gets overturned or those suckers get tired of getting fucked and stop buying insurance which each year becomes less and less affordable, and then the whole thing will implode...

[Bladewire]

I cancelled mine middle of the year. Hundreds of bucks a month for nothing in return fuck that, and they won't enforce the penalty.

[RyuLion]

I'm lucky to be a healthy individual but I should use mine before the renewal..

[NatalieK]

Originally Posted by Bladewire

I cancelled mine middle of the year. Hundreds of bucks a month for nothing in return fuck that, and they won't enforce the penalty.

do Americans pay National Insurance aswel as ObamaCare?


In Britain on a wage of about 300 dollars a week, you would be taxed about 40 and pay 20 out on NI, so you'd take home about 240. People struggle in the UK

[kane]

Originally Posted by woj

Nothing works about it, the whole point was that it would lower costs, and it hasn't done that at all... in fact costs have increased faster after ObamaCare got implemented, so it's a complete failure...

the only reason there is an illusion that it "works" is because there is a group of suckers who are forced by law to buy overpriced insurance they do not need or want in order to subsidize others...

it's only a matter of time before either the insurance mandate gets overturned or those suckers get tired of getting fucked and stop buying insurance which each year becomes less and less affordable, and then the whole thing will implode...

The reason for that price increase is two-fold. One, as you mentioned, Obamacare does nothing to actually lower the prices of drugs and actual healthcare. Two, there are now 20 million people who have health insurance that didn't have it before Obamacare. However, they grossly underestimated how much those people would use it. There was a reason those people didn't have health insurance before. They either have pre-existing conditions and were denied coverage or they were offered coverage but too poor to be able to afford it. Now they have it and they are using it. Those who make too much to get much government help for the cost are the ones that are shouldering the brunt of that with much higher premiums.

[kane]

Originally Posted by GspotProductions

do Americans pay National Insurance aswel as ObamaCare?


In Britain on a wage of about 300 dollars a week, you would be taxed about 40 and pay 20 out on NI, so you'd take home about 240. People struggle in the UK

Basically, here is how it works.

Under Obamacare everyone is required to have health insurance. Most people get it through their jobs. Those who don't must buy it on what they call an "exchange." What type of policies and how much they cost can vary greatly depending on which state you live in. Depending on how much money you make, you will get financial help from the government to pay for this insurance. If you don't have insurance, you will be fined by the government, but the fine is actually pretty small so there are a good number of healthy people who have just opted to not get insurance and wait for the fine.

[NatalieK]

Originally Posted by kane

Basically, here is how it works.

Under Obamacare everyone is required to have health insurance. Most people get it through their jobs. Those who don't must buy it on what they call an "exchange." What type of policies and how much they cost can vary greatly depending on which state you live in. Depending on how much money you make, you will get financial help from the government to pay for this insurance. If you don't have insurance, you will be fined by the government, but the fine is actually pretty small so there are a good number of healthy people who have just opted to not get insurance and wait for the fine.

sounds like you Americans are just moaning about something most modern world countries do anyway.

As said, we pay NI in the UK, we all do, it's national insurance, it's health care. It pays for our medical costs & is usually about 10 to 20 out of our pay checks, self employed have to pay their own & when on social, it's not paid, but caught up when you get a job.

Our NI works out to about $450 a year. I don't get any one moaning about it, some thing needs to pay for the national care we get as people living in a modern world

[kane]

Originally Posted by GspotProductions

sounds like you Americans are just moaning about something most modern world countries do anyway.

As said, we pay NI in the UK, we all do, it's national insurance, it's health care. It pays for our medical costs & is usually about 10 to 20 out of our pay checks, self employed have to pay their own & when on social, it's not paid, but caught up when you get a job.

Our NI works out to about $450 a year. I don't get any one moaning about it, some thing needs to pay for the national care we get as people living in a modern world

I think we will one day end up with some kind of national healthcare like the rest of the industrialized world has, but sometimes we take the long, winding road to arrive at destinations.

[woj]

Originally Posted by kane

The reason for that price increase is two-fold. One, as you mentioned, Obamacare does nothing to actually lower the prices of drugs and actual healthcare. Two, there are now 20 million people who have health insurance that didn't have it before Obamacare. However, they grossly underestimated how much those people would use it. There was a reason those people didn't have health insurance before. They either have pre-existing conditions and were denied coverage or they were offered coverage but too poor to be able to afford it. Now they have it and they are using it. Those who make too much to get much government help for the cost are the ones that are shouldering the brunt of that with much higher premiums.

yea, that's exactly the problem, which I think will be very difficult to solve... any solution no matter what happens, will have to involve subsidizing others, and given that healthcare is already expensive as is, if you have to subsidize others on top of it, it becomes unworkable...

insurance companies are losing $$ and quitting the markets, customers are getting frustrated and discontinuing their insurance (like Bladewire), etc... the whole thing simply doesn't work...

so really the only easy fix is for government to throw some $$ at it, which I hope they don't, as that isn't going to solve anything at all, it will just continue the charade that ObamaCare is a success...

instead maybe they can work the "lets work on lowering costs" angle, that's really the only hope of making healthcare in the US work for everyone, that was what ObamaCare was supposed to be to begin with, but I doubt that will be doable before ObamaCare collapses...

[ErectMedia]

never dealt with it, my mom was on it for 1 year and then my dad threw her on his insurance, she didn't seem pleased with it guessing that was due to price or coverage sucking not sure, my personal insurance has been blue cross, united and now gonna try cigna for 2017.

[NatalieK]

Originally Posted by baddog

It is not right to fine someone for not having insurance

a fine, maybe wrong, but when that person needs medical attention or the doctors because they have the flu, should they just be turned away?

Why should one pay and not another, sounds like when people moan about a mexican finding work in the USA, earning their way through life, while another American sits smoking crack and does nothing with no medicare and gets everything with no fine???

National Insurance is standard in the UK, it should be anywhere

[Paul Markham]

The ranting against Obamacare reveals the stupidity of some Americans. Obamacare isn't to blame for the high cost of Healthcare in the US.

Obamacare isn't to blame for the high cost of Healthcare in the US. Just in case you missed it.

The blame lies 100% on the American healthcare industry. They're the ones deciding the prices and costs. You're the suckers that are bled dry.





There is no such thing as Government money, it's yours or it's borrowed.



Your taxes or debt is 16% of GDP. The 9% on Social Care is going to skyrocket as more low-skilled workers arrive, businesses move East, and people live longer.

But go and blame Obama, after all he is black so has to get the blame.

[Bladewire]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

The ranting against Obamacare reveals the stupidity of some Americans. Obamacare isn't to blame for the high cost of Healthcare in the US.

Obamacare isn't to blame for the high cost of Healthcare in the US. Just in case you missed it.

The blame lies 100% on the American healthcare industry. They're the ones deciding the prices and costs. You're the suckers that are bled dry.





There is no such thing as Government money, it's yours or it's borrowed.



Your taxes or debt is 16% of GDP. The 9% on Social Care is going to skyrocket as more low-skilled workers arrive, businesses move East, and people live longer.

But go and blame Obama, after all he is black so has to get the blame.

Yes, the clause that forbids the government from negotiating medication costs & the healthcare companies raising rates for simple services at their will, and raising premiums, for a money grab, is the problem.

It frustrates me when foreigners post here about intricate American issues they don't live. You rely on news only, you don't know a lot of what we know when we talk to our doctor, or look at a medical bill etc. Just like you don't know how corrupt Trump is and that he's put 3 investment banker lobbyists in charge of overseeing his cabinet positions.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Bladewire

Yes, the clause that forbids the government from negotiating medication costs & the healthcare companies raising rates for simple services at their will, and raising premiums, for a money grab, is the problem.

Who wrote in that clause and who told them to write it in?

It frustrates me when foreigners post here about intricate American issues they don't live. You rely on news only, you don't know a lot of what we know when we talk to our doctor, or look at a medical bill etc. Just like you don't know how corrupt Trump is and that he's put 3 investment banker lobbyists in charge of overseeing his cabinet positions.

It wouldn't frustrate you if you could see the truth when you post it.

That clause has no place in a contract with the Government of the day. It gives private corporations powers over your elected representatives to rip you apart. The people that passed that law are corrupt. Follow the money.

But the real culprits are the voters. On every ballot paper, there are outsiders. Vote for them instead of not voting. They can't do any worse. They can scare the living daylights out of the incumbents.

[kane]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

But the real culprits are the voters. On every ballot paper, there are outsiders. Vote for them instead of not voting. They can't do any worse. They can scare the living daylights out of the incumbents.

That is not always the case. On this last ballot, there were at least half a dozen cases where there was only one person on the ballot including the race for mayor of my city. In other cases, like my congressional representative, there were only two people on the ballot. So, do you recommend I vote for the incumbent Democrat who has been in office for several terms, or should I vote for the Republican who's also a lifelong politician and has held several different elected offices in the past?

[woj]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

The ranting against Obamacare reveals the stupidity of some Americans. Obamacare isn't to blame for the high cost of Healthcare in the US.

Obamacare isn't to blame for the high cost of Healthcare in the US. Just in case you missed it.

The blame lies 100% on the American healthcare industry. They're the ones deciding the prices and costs. You're the suckers that are bled dry.

There is no such thing as Government money, it's yours or it's borrowed.

Your taxes or debt is 16% of GDP. The 9% on Social Care is going to skyrocket as more low-skilled workers arrive, businesses move East, and people live longer.

But go and blame Obama, after all he is black so has to get the blame.

large % of the population is ranting against ObamaCare for the exact reasons you pointed it out... it does nothing at all to lower the costs... all it does is shift expenses from one group of people to another... people getting subsidies are obviously cheering on, cause they are in effect getting free $$ from the government... while the group that is getting fucked in the process wants the ass fucking to stop... how can you blame them?

if someone proposed a solution that would actually lower costs, I'm sure everyone would be in favor of it... ObamaCare however is NOT that solution...

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by baddog

It is not right to fine someone for not having insurance

We've had this argument before. You are legally required to have auto insurance and home owners insurance.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by woj

Nothing works about it....

It's working great for me.

[woj]

Originally Posted by Rochard

We've had this argument before. You are legally required to have auto insurance and home owners insurance.

that's nonsense...

auto-insurance is really just "liability insurance"... you operate a dangerous machine (a car) in public, and there is relatively high chance you will fuck other people up... if you do, the state wants to be sure you have "liability insurance" that will pay for any damages you cause... the state could care less if you fuck yourself up, or if you fuck up your own car...

home owners insurance isn't required either, your bank may require it to insure against possible loss, but once you own your home, home owners insurance is usually not required...

[woj]

Originally Posted by Rochard

It's working great for me.

could it have something to do with the fact that you are getting subsidies (free $$ from the government)? Would you be just as enthusiastic about it if subsidies were to go away in 2017?

[kane]

Originally Posted by woj

that's nonsense...

auto-insurance is really just "liability insurance"... you operate a dangerous machine (a car) in public, and there is relatively high chance you will fuck other people up... if you do, the state wants to be sure you have "liability insurance" that will pay for any damages you cause... the state could care less if you fuck yourself up, or if you fuck up your own car...

home owners insurance isn't required either, your bank may require it to insure against possible loss, but once you own your home, home owners insurance is usually not required...

So what if a guy has no health insurance, has a major heart attack and is rushed to the hospital. They do surgery. He spends time in the ICU and ends up making a full recovery, but not before running up $200,000 in medical bills. He has no way to pay it so he declares bankruptcy. That cost is going to be passed on to others. Is that fair?

[woj]

Originally Posted by kane

So what if a guy has no health insurance, has a major heart attack and is rushed to the hospital. They do surgery. He spends time in the ICU and ends up making a full recovery, but not before running up $200,000 in medical bills. He has no way to pay it so he declares bankruptcy. That cost is going to be passed on to others. Is that fair?

no, it's not fair... ObamaCare doesn't make it any fairer though, what difference does it make if cost is "passed to others" via subsidizing his health insurance? or if it's by him weaseling out of paying his medical bills? End result is the same, someone else ends up paying for his healthcare...

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by kane

That is not always the case. On this last ballot, there were at least half a dozen cases where there was only one person on the ballot including the race for mayor of my city. In other cases, like my congressional representative, there were only two people on the ballot. So, do you recommend I vote for the incumbent Democrat who has been in office for several terms, or should I vote for the Republican who's also a lifelong politician and has held several different elected offices in the past?

This isn't personal. The comment was directed at all the people who refuse to vote out the people who are screwing them.

Woj's comment shows how bad it's become. There are only one winner from that clause and it's not the American People. How do Americans fix it? Make politicians fear them, make good people believe things can change so they stand and win without the need of billionaire backers.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by woj

large % of the population is ranting against ObamaCare for the exact reasons you pointed it out... it does nothing at all to lower the costs... all it does is shift expenses from one group of people to another... people getting subsidies are obviously cheering on, cause they are in effect getting free $$ from the government... while the group that is getting fucked in the process wants the ass fucking to stop... how can you blame them?

if someone proposed a solution that would actually lower costs, I'm sure everyone would be in favor of it... ObamaCare however is NOT that solution...

A lot of things in America are wrong and need fixing. that's why Trump won. Your problem is the politicians who are creating the problems. Obama, I'm sure would have had that clause in and was forced to. By other politicians or billionaires.

No one can give you cheaper healthcare which the rest of us enjoy. Because you keep voting for the wrong people, like Clinton.

Of course, I did offer a solution. Which is the only one if you do what Corporate americs commands,.

[kane]

Originally Posted by woj

no, it's not fair... ObamaCare doesn't make it any fairer though, what difference does it make if cost is "passed to others" via subsidizing his health insurance? or if it's by him weaseling out of paying his medical bills? End result is the same, someone else ends up paying for his healthcare...

My hope is that if we can fix Obamacare to help lower and control the actual cost of healthcare then premiums won't be so high. If that were to occur I don't see it as a bad thing to try to force people to have health insurance so if they get sick or injured everyone else doesn't end up having to pay for it.

[Speigelau]

Originally Posted by Bladewire

I cancelled mine middle of the year. Hundreds of bucks a month for nothing in return fuck that, and they won't enforce the penalty.

They most certainly will enforce it. If you don't pay it and decide to get coverage at a later date you'll have to pay the fee of at least $695 plus additional penalties in order to initiate coverage again. Of course, if Trump makes some radical changes to Obamacare, this may eliminate that penalty. See, Trump's election may already have a positive impact on your life.

[kane]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

This isn't personal. The comment was directed at all the people who refuse to vote out the people who are screwing them.

Woj's comment shows how bad it's become. There are only one winner from that clause and it's not the American People. How do Americans fix it? Make politicians fear them, make good people believe things can change so they stand and win without the need of billionaire backers.

That's the thing. You make it sound like it is as simple as voting for someone else. What I am saying is that in many cases there are no "other" options. The President can only do so much and as we are starting to see Trump is surrounding himself with lifelong politicians and the Senate Majority Leader has already said that term limits will not happen under his watch.

To really fix things we need to vote out the House and Senate. In this election, my House representative was running unopposed, so there was no other option. Our Senator did have competition, but one of them was a lifelong politician and the other three were crazy people.

Sadly, the system is so saturated with lobbyist and outside influence not only from rich, powerful people, but from other countries as well, that changing it is going to be nearly impossible.

[woj]

Originally Posted by kane

My hope is that if we can fix Obamacare to help lower and control the actual cost of healthcare then premiums won't be so high. If that were to occur I don't see it as a bad thing to try to force people to have health insurance so if they get sick or injured everyone else doesn't end up having to pay for it.

I agree, that key is lowering costs...

but I'm not sure I agree about requiring insurance... insurance is just another player in the whole game, sucking out $$$ without really providing any useful service...

it raises costs because of "moral hazard", i.e. insurance pays for all the costs, so there is no reason not to overuse it.. (like many people have been doing with ObamaCare)...

related to that, it also makes people indifferent about price, i.e. if people actually had to pay 100% out of their own pocket, for simple problems they would go to a nurse practitioner or less experienced doctor and pay $50, instead of more experienced doctor and pay $200, or even just wait it out... there is zero reason to go to a doctor with a flu, like ton of idiots are doing, etc... but insurance company pays for it all, so who cares how much it costs?

it makes fraud much easier, with health insurance it's relatively easy to bill insurance company for procedures that weren't actually performed... i.e. "Patient complained his ass hurt, colonoscopy was performed.. +$500... chi-ching!"

the fact that insurance company employs countless number of people = added cost, + they need to turn a profit on top of that... so even more added cost..

... etc

there are ton of problems with insurance, I would even argue that it's actually one of the main reasons why healthcare costs got out of hand... imagine that no one has health insurance, wouldn't doctors/hospitals/etc be forced to lower prices to make their services more affordable? that's actually how it was in the past, widespread use of health insurance is relatively recent, before that doctors and healthcare existed and people were doing fine...

[Dead]

Originally Posted by woj

I agree, that key is lowering costs...

but I'm not sure I agree about requiring insurance... insurance is just another player in the whole game, sucking out $$$ without really providing any useful service...

it raises costs because of "moral hazard", i.e. insurance pays for all the costs, so there is no reason not to overuse it.. (like many people have been doing with ObamaCare)...

related to that, it also makes people indifferent about price, i.e. if people actually had to pay 100% out of their own pocket, for simple problems they would go to a nurse practitioner or less experienced doctor and pay $50, instead of more experienced doctor and pay $200, or even just wait it out... there is zero reason to go to a doctor with a flu, like ton of idiots are doing, etc... but insurance company pays for it all, so who cares how much it costs?

it makes fraud much easier, with health insurance it's relatively easy to bill insurance company for procedures that weren't actually performed... i.e. "Patient complained his ass hurt, colonoscopy was performed.. +$500... chi-ching!"

the fact that insurance company employs countless number of people = added cost, + they need to turn a profit on top of that... so even more added cost..

... etc

there are ton of problems with insurance, I would even argue that it's actually one of the main reasons why healthcare costs got out of hand... imagine that no one has health insurance, wouldn't doctors/hospitals/etc be forced to lower prices to make their services more affordable? that's actually how it was in the past, widespread use of health insurance is relatively recent, before that doctors and healthcare existed and people were doing fine...

All very valid points.

[kane]

Originally Posted by woj

I agree, that key is lowering costs...

but I'm not sure I agree about requiring insurance... insurance is just another player in the whole game, sucking out $$$ without really providing any useful service...

it raises costs because of "moral hazard", i.e. insurance pays for all the costs, so there is no reason not to overuse it.. (like many people have been doing with ObamaCare)...

related to that, it also makes people indifferent about price, i.e. if people actually had to pay 100% out of their own pocket, for simple problems they would go to a nurse practitioner or less experienced doctor and pay $50, instead of more experienced doctor and pay $200, or even just wait it out... there is zero reason to go to a doctor with a flu, like ton of idiots are doing, etc... but insurance company pays for it all, so who cares how much it costs?

it makes fraud much easier, with health insurance it's relatively easy to bill insurance company for procedures that weren't actually performed... i.e. "Patient complained his ass hurt, colonoscopy was performed.. +$500... chi-ching!"

the fact that insurance company employs countless number of people = added cost, + they need to turn a profit on top of that... so even more added cost..

... etc

there are ton of problems with insurance, I would even argue that it's actually one of the main reasons why healthcare costs got out of hand... imagine that no one has health insurance, wouldn't doctors/hospitals/etc be forced to lower prices to make their services more affordable? that's actually how it was in the past, widespread use of health insurance is relatively recent, before that doctors and healthcare existed and people were doing fine...

I agree 100% that insurance is likely the main reason costs have gotten so crazy. I know people who have gotten hospital bills and laughed because they were charged $25 for an aspirin and $50 for a blanket. Of course, they aren't paying for those things, their insurance is. They wouldn't think it is so funny if they had to actually pay for that stuff.

To me, the only real way to fix the problem is to go to a single payer system. I think we are heading there, but it will be a little while, and we will try some other things, before we get there.

[Bladewire]

They could always extend Medicare to high risk & pre-existing conditions people that will remove the mandate on Obamacare and lower costs for everyone else