Shap

Tubes always get blamed because they list content that they haven't paid for and in many ways haven't received the proper permission to use. I agree that's a problem. Also, I believe each social network can be a huge marketing tool if used properly. This isn't a post to discuss that.

I rarely hear anyone blame Social Media for any decline in porn earnings. Specifically Facebook and Instagram and now Snapchat. All three of these have really changed our behaviour online. In fact in many ways they've taken a huge percentage of surfers off the web. All three are their own environment where in most cases the surfer is no longer surfing the web the way he used to. They aren't going to come across your content. Most damaging is they are getting content that is good enough to get them off. While it isn't as explicit as adult it satisfy other needs. It's voyeuristic, it's stalkerish and it's familiar. Now instead of seeing a stranger they can see their university teacher in a bikini, or their co worker.

It's something I've thought about for some time. Was wondering what you guys think?

Paul Markham

Not in the slightest. The thing that hurt the porn industry the most, was the porn industry. The rest is excuses.

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suesheboy

I had joined an "adult page" on Facebook for the first time a days weeks ago.

The free content (much self produced) and the dating potential between members is staggering.

I had no idea what a piece of the pie was taken by FB until I spend a few hours on there.

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Paul Markham

News to me that FB had such groups, links please.

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hipersansnom

If you know How to use social media it can help you and your business

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Adnium_Ivana

Not at all. In fact I think they're helping performers as well as affiliates promote their sites through it.

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kane

I think free dating apps like Tinder have likely been more harmful. Now you can just tap your phone and potentially find someone near you to hook up with. No need to check out porn or join an adult dating site.

CaptainHowdy

"Free" dating apps indeed ...

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altmman

It's good and neutral for the most part.

Good in that you can create a page to communicate with fans & curious people and helps with SEO. But you can't buy a paid advertise to them because FB will reject any ads that are dating or sexual. Sexual pages get reported all the time.

Neutral in that it trains people that content is free. They get hours of free entertainment on Facebook (Cat videos, news stories, games, etc) so they expect their porn to be free too.

I don't think it has a HUGE impact on porn business unless you seriously work it. Because people go to FB to hang out with friends and family, not to find blog posts or content.
And they don't want their Aunt Helga to see they "like" Rough Creampie Gangbang Squad so they don't "like" those pages.
I have a page with over 600 likes and I'm surprised my fans would "like" my site publicly lol

So meh for adult, but fantastic for mainstream because you can advertise and people feel free to "like" mainstream.

Paul Markham

That has hurt some sites, especially camsites. No longer does a model need a cameraman, affiliates, and publisher. She can do a lot for herself now.

CSM, you are starting to sound like Damian Jenkins. Probably because losers sound similar.

Show us your site so we can see the server.

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The Porn Nerd

Twitter allowing full videos is hurting the most. Before they allowed 30 second clips - sounds like the old MPG/TGP days right? Right! And that tease is what was bringing sales. Now they can watch full vids on Twitter so no need to ever leave Twitter.

The game now is getting people to your site and doing everything you can SO THEY NEVER LEAVE AGAIN.

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Shap

Agreed 100%

Barry-xlovecam

Social media has no real affect on porn, dating, or cams when payment is involved.

Traffic that is free never made you any money anyway.

Small time 'entrepreneurs' that try to collect money via PayPal or other payment services that ban these adult digital products do not last long. This was widly going on in 2000 and it didn't make any real difference. Newsgroups were the "social media" of the past for static porn -- the tactics are the same really. The stratagem have not changed much.

That said, I will have an adult wallet soon to capitalize on these opportunities. I could give every cam model her own .cam domain, a broadcast platform that is browser-to-browser (no Flash needed) with multi viewer capabilities and a pay wallet to get their money. I don't pay the expensive adult high-risk processing fees most of you do. The models can have 80+% ... I can deal efficiently with the technical and financial end.

Models can "go hunting" wherever they like.

Micro-transactions are easily done within our planned wallet.
We could charge a very small amount per transaction. "Transfer fee" of 1% to the wallet owner?
I see some other opportunities also.

notinmybackyard

If you're a photographer and you can get your hands on persona management software then you can make some decent coin on facebook.

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celandina

Social media and porn is not "computing" for me, after all these threads here as how to avoid being cut off from facebook,tumbler,twitter,snapchat etc...

Try to put " pissing lesbians tortured by their whip mistresses until they slumbered" and there is your answer

Rochard

The dating industry is scared that Facebook will make a dating section... That would kill online dating.

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Barry-xlovecam

Facebook is already being used as a "dating" website by many users.

People meet and talk in IMs.

This is not a fake profile porn oriented dating website. So, I don't see the effect social media has on the "adult dating website" model.

When people want free [I left the word 'want' out above^^] the "adult dating website" model will not be affected. Insecure data retention is adult dating's real downfall

baddog

AOL was a very effective dating site with all their forums.

elliso

Facebook is Best traffic

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mineistaken

Isn't search engine traffic (example of free traffic) making money?

Barry-xlovecam

Since when is search engine traffic 'free?' You have to work your ass off and spend money on content and bandwidth to get the SEO for the SERPs that payoff. Tell me how that is FREE?

SEO and Branded is earned traffic it is not free.

Bladewire

^^ Shhhhh ^^

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Barry-xlovecam

You work for your Facebook traffic (posting new content -- time intensive) or do normal Facebook users post on their feeds for you because they like you?

Either way it is earned traffic -- that is my point.

All of Facebook's traffic is earned traffic -- branded direct traffic. Even if they are quoted and linked from another source, technically that is referred traffic, however they are quoted.

mineistaken

I was anticipating this response. In that case - what traffic is free? You have to work for every kind of traffic, it does not fall from the sky (that seems to be your definition of frere traffic - the one you have to spend 0 seconds getting).

mikesouth

I have to agree with Paul in that porn valley was porn valleys biggest enemy. When they could have nipped the tubes in the bud they didn't because they never valued their content beyond the first 30-60 days.

they thought that DVD sales would outstrip VHS sales (didnt happen) and that streaming would always be low quality they were hit with a near perfect storm.....fast internet became widely available, computers became capable of decoding complex video compression codecs at a reasonable price and consumers abandoned the video store model....across the board. This is not to say tube sites didnt play a huge role in killing the biz...they did.

The industry was poised to make good money via internet delivery but the glut of porn and the porn valley producers willing to sell the rights to material not even a year old for peanuts added to outright content theft by Manwin and others added up to consumers who thought porn should be free...because....well...it was free.

Combining all of those things expedited the demise of Porn Valley and it hurt the online entrepreneurs as well but Porn Valley took the brunt of it.

The real question now is how do we get the marketshare back.

To me the obvious solution is also the most distasteful...the legislature.

For all the "statistics" that Manwin/MindGeek releases about who searches for what and where they live and all of that the on bit of data you never see is the most disturbing....Manwin/MindGeek/Pornhub KNOW with pretty reasonable certainty that one third of their users are under 15 years of age...no thats not a typo....15.

When and if this becomes an issue and the legislature decides that you need to present proof of age to see hardcore material....things will change. Most likely this "proof" would be in the form of a valid credit card...dont argue yes I know that sometimes children under 18 have credit cards....the idea is its not many and its a start and believe me when I tell you that congress has explored this idea more than once. I know because I have spoken about it at length with my US congress person.

Now straight up...if you are an adult how many of you would trust manwin/mindgeek with your credit card info? Even if they swear they will never charge it...

That affects social media as well...age verification is THE best thing that could happen to us guys still hanging on in the industry....Bad as I hate to see government involved in anything.

I expect it's coming.

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Mike South

It's No wonder I took up drugs and alcohol, it's the only way I could dumb myself down enough to cope with the morons in this biz.

Barry-xlovecam

I don't work for free do you?

Whether it is more cost efficient to buy an ad or generate traffic organically is debatable.
Free is not free if you have to work for it </period>

Barry-xlovecam

They did try and lost;

Will Mike Pence and his rightist buddies try again -- maybe. Will it stick this time -- maybe.

Will the American people want to sign-up for the confirmed official perv list?
Will that list be made available to law enforcement, public officials and to your employer or potential employer?

Don't let your hatred ruin your business

mikesouth

I wasnt talking about COPA I was talking about copyright and protecting it very few porners even bothered to copyright their works and the ones that did didnt see the internet as a threat until it was too late.....at some point MindGeek is gonna fall but Porn Valley has long since been road kill on the information superhighway

and dont misunderstand my ideology re MndGeek I dont hate them, I hate beets MindGeek is something different and actually Im rather indifferent as to any feelings.....I don't have any personal feelings re MindGeek....I will do everything I can to expose them as slimebags but its just business...sure Im passionate about it but I dont equate them with feelings that I would have for people or a pet or something. There are actually people at MindGeek that I like, same as The FSC but when it comes to shining a light on what they do I do it, regardless of my personal feelings....if that makes any sense...

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Mike South

It's No wonder I took up drugs and alcohol, it's the only way I could dumb myself down enough to cope with the morons in this biz.

Jigster715

Yep! And more apps coming on line all the time to do just that.

Paul Markham

You're singing from my song book.

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Paul Markham

100% the way forward.

The "studio" model is too expensive for the main aspect of the product, the models. After the affiliate, website, studio has had their slice what's left for the model?

Today models don't need any of that, they can go direct to the consumer. All they need is processing. They can promote themselves and build a site. Building a site that allows for them to have multi-viewers is an awesome level on top of the 1 on 1.

Just give the girls some tips on self-promotion and maybe a good platform to make it a big magnet for surfers.

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Paul Markham

Girls are making money doing selfies.

Today's Match.com model is outdated.

Sign up, pay to contact someone, risks of it being a fake, then the endless search for someone. Doesn't hold up against Tinder. If Facebook or similar takes on dating and users have the options to see who the poster is. People will flock to it. Add videos to the mix and it's awesome.

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Paul Markham

By the time Tubes appeared offline porn was on its last legs. It was online porn's inability to close ranks and bring down Tubes that's to blame.

A DVD with 5/6 scenes costs $30. A membership to a site with 500/600 scenes costs $30 and many of those sites allowed te user to download everything in a month. Losing the customer for months. And allowing him to share the content.

A TGP site with 100,000s of images was free. A magazine had 50 pictures and costs $8.

Online porn did everything it possibly could to give away free porn. counting the 1 in 100s who paid as a win, denying the 100s would ever buy porn.

If only we had stuck with link lists back in 1998 and reaped the huge rewards of all that traffic. But that would have meant admitting free traffic, no payment, wasn't king.

Imagine converting 1-100 views on the 100s of millions on link lists or review sites. Instead of 1-10,000s on a Tube site.

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Paul Markham

And how do they enforce their laws outside the US?

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Barry-xlovecam

Sorry Mike. I merged Kane's comments about the under 15 at the mindgeek sites -- I had a brain fart -- that COPA comment was misdirected.

Paul -- the US can't in the foreign courts when there is not corresponding law in that country.

1. What the US can do is try to 'firewall' any site not complying with US laws.
2. There is something called a "long arm state statue" in the US federal Court Districts. However, this is rather narrow and probably would not work -- if it did work; if your server was in the USA the court could accept an in rem action (action against property -- not a person personally served) -- resulting in the seizure of your server and any other assets in the USA, or controlled by a USA business like VISA and Mastercard.
3. The US government could order VISA and other credit card associations as well as US based money center banks and foreign banks operating in the USA not to do business with you -- VISA is global but US owned so such court order would apply to their foreign operations -- this is how they crippled backpage.

As far as the independent cam girls -- they are to be left to their own means.
A basic sitebuilder is very doable. RTFM, that is their training. They could make a deal on their own to pay for help -- like a webmaster to assist them or to engage their own affiliates and set the split.

mineistaken

Ok, so free traffic does not exist. According to your definition. Although this definition is not the one commonly used by most webmasters who are using the term of "free traffic".

Paul Markham

That was my point. Firewalling sites is as difficult unless there are people monitoring people's computers to see if they're accessing via a proxy/VPN. Then there are a mass of issues.

Controlling Visa/Mastercard is an opportunity for Payoneer to grow into that market. And more issues of the Government trying to be huge censors. They will shout and do little but go after a few individuals they can slam dunk. Max Hardcore, watch your back or leave.

Agree 100%. The key is not taking too much of the money. Take too much and the girls will go alone. Best bet is to train them to market themselves. This is a slam dunk for those girls who will and the girls who won't/can't. They can take the affiliate route.

A webmaster isn't needed these days beyond building the site and once it's built. He's gone. A set up of what Wordpress do for bloggers, webmasters can sell the same site with personal twists over and over again. Tomorrow is a new era which needs new ideas.

Your biggest problem is getting it out to the girls who work from home.

Read the Fucking Manual doesn't cut it. It works for machines that are all the same, teaching models properly is slightly different. They have to produce promoting content that's better than webmaster level. It's down to boy meets girl and falls for her, in the real world. You must know girls who outsell the rest, they have the key.

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Barry-xlovecam

RTFM does work when you are paying out most of the profit.

That is why I would advise models to retain experienced webmasters and pay them if they want help generating traffic and paying customers.

I'll compromise with you; Maybe, we do a weekly newsletter with a few links utilizing the content on marketing and sales conversion that is available on the Internet.

1. These models are NOT statutory employees -- employment law liability
2. We operate as a service and marketing business and not as an employer of models

Our cost of marketing and generating traffic as well as paying affiliates is being passed along to the independent model -- how they want to spend that revenue is their business.

This product is theoretically possible in the near future but is not available at this time.

mikesouth

No worries man...hell its easy to look back and see what went wrong....the hard part is seeing it real time. One thing for sure porners are NOT the technology leaders we used to be

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Mike South

It's No wonder I took up drugs and alcohol, it's the only way I could dumb myself down enough to cope with the morons in this biz.

notinmybackyard

Absolutely and many of them now sell their webcam time directly to the punter without the use of a middle man. But if you're an old pervert like me filming other people having sex then I really suggest looking into getting a persona management program.

Yup.

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TheDynasty

If anything I think it brings in more traffic for our sites than hurts !

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SomeCreep

You make some good points. Social media has helped to empower pornstars. They're all on social media now doing self-promotion. I don't believe horny single guys are spending less time looking at porn online because they're spending more time on Facebook or Snapchat. When dudes want porn, they go to their favorite tube site and fap.

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