British PM has a Brexit deal. Will anyone like it?

[Paul Markham]

Will it be any good or has she given too much away?

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46188790

UK and EU officials have agreed the draft text of a Brexit agreement after months of negotiations.

A cabinet source told the BBC that the document has been agreed at a technical level by officials from both sides after intensive discussions this week.

A special cabinet meeting will be held at 14:00 GMT on Wednesday as Theresa May seeks ministers' backing.

The PM has been meeting ministers in Downing Street for one-to-one talks on the draft agreement.

BBC political editor Laura Kuenssberg said the agreement contained a UK-wide customs "backstop" aimed at preventing new border checks in Northern Ireland.

There is no additional Northern Ireland-only backstop - but sources wouldn't be drawn on any specific arrangements for Northern Ireland on rules and regulation within the UK-wide one, she added.

[thommy]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Will it be any good or has she given too much away?

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46188790

i think the EU gave her too much. but i think she will not get it through anyway.
there will be a hard brexit and i really love to see the chaos that will come with it.

banks are already prepared for that and many big companies too.

[CurrentlySober]

I wish we could have borrowed Donald to sort it out for us... If he had, I'm sure everyone would be 100% happy with the deal...

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by thommy

i think the EU gave her too much. but i think she will not get it through anyway.
there will be a hard brexit and i really love to see the chaos that will come with it.

banks are already prepared for that and many big companies too.

A hard Brexit will be bad for Europe.

Being a member of the EU, the UK has seen the flat lining of wages for most, the export of jobs, higher unemployment, more people relying on welfare and the huge rises in National debts across the EU.

Then the future, where all control will reside with unelected bureaucrats and people not elected by the countries they rule.

The UK leaving will make the balance of power swing further in the favour of non-contributing countries and push the bill further onto the few that do contribute. Do Germans want to be paying a larger share of the EU budget and paying to prop up the Euro? Because the loss of the UK leads to that.

What are the benefits of being in the EU?

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by CurrentlySober

I wish we could have borrowed Donald to sort it out for us... If he had, I'm sure everyone would be 100% happy with the deal...

A tougher negotiator would of helped the UK get a better deal. From the beginning the EU dictated terms of everything. Even Cameron going for better terms, then the divorce deal, then the EU migrants in the EU, etc.

The UK needed someone who just walked out of the room and prepared for a hard Brexit, which damages EU trade as well as the EUs. Sadly the UK never had that, they had Theresa May.

Maybe she has pulled off a good deal. Wait and see.

[celandina]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Will it be any good or has she given too much away?

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46188790

More then 15 years ago a Czech artist David Cerny did for EU an allegorical depiction of Europe ( called Entropa)....and guess what ? There was no Great Britain...Did he know something way back then??

[wehateporn]

Brexit means Brexit

[thommy]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

A hard Brexit will be bad for Europe.

Being a member of the EU, the UK has seen the flat lining of wages for most, the export of jobs, higher unemployment, more people relying on welfare and the huge rises in National debts across the EU.

i don´t know where you always get your numbers from but you really should change your source.

i will give you some numbers from UK

raise of GDP between 2000 and 2014 from 1500 billion dollars to over 3000 billion dollars,
unemployment rate 2000 = 4,7% - 2017 = 4,1%
labor costs 2000 at 80 points - 2017 = 103 points
trading balance 2000 = - 2000 2017 = +2.01
exports 2000 = 20 billion - 2017 = 55 billion

here you can play a bit a see how "bad" was the EU to britain

print the numbers and hang them over your bed because you will not see such numbers again.

The UK leaving will make the balance of power swing further in the favour of non-contributing countries and push the bill further onto the few that do contribute. Do Germans want to be paying a larger share of the EU budget and paying to prop up the Euro? Because the loss of the UK leads to that.

where do you think all this inner european trades will go ?
they will go to exactly those countries and it will make them stronger.
britain lost his biggest trading partner and not only this. britain depends on the continent
or have to ship or fly all good inside.
you know what that means to distribution prices when the day comes when there will be a border and all trucks have to wait hours and hours to get through the customs ?

do you know what it means to your education system when you can not send people easy to another country in case you have to many from them and take from other countries in case you do not have enough from them.

What are the benefits of being in the EU?

brits will know it soon !

[CurrentlySober]

There's a 38 Billion divorce bill I think... So thats 38 Billion to be left alone. She should have offered as many billions as it took to get whatever she wanted and then just printed the money and paid it. If it was 1000 Billion it wouldn't matter cause it's only printing costs. When you print money, it's effectively free.

The money wouldn't matter to us as it would be going outside the country and not getting introduced into or effecting our UK economy.

Simples

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by thommy

i don´t know where you always get your numbers from but you really should change your source.

i will give you some numbers from UK

raise of GDP between 2000 and 2014 from 1500 billion dollars to over 3000 billion dollars,
unemployment rate 2000 = 4,7% - 2017 = 4,1%
labor costs 2000 at 80 points - 2017 = 103 points
trading balance 2000 = - 2000 2017 = +2.01
exports 2000 = 20 billion - 2017 = 55 billion

here you can play a bit a see how "bad" was the EU to britain

print the numbers and hang them over your bed because you will not see such numbers again.

Yes the UK has done OK by being in the Common Market. It has suffered by being in the EU. You do understand the difference or maybe you don't?

And there's the problem does the EU want to lose such a power house from it's club?

The UK does not want to be ruled by a central committee of unelected bureaucrats passing laws it has little to no control over. It does not want to have courts that are above those based in the UK. It does not want to fund projects outside the UK with UK taxpayers money. It does not want a useless EU Army. It does not want to pay the bill for the Euro because those bureaucrats were stupid and gave it to countries that unable to manage it. It does not want the CAP a policy that was introduced to pay for small uneconomic European farms.

Maybe you do and are willing to pay for so much you don't want.

[Paul Markham]

It looks unlikely the deal will get through Westminster. So do we leave with no deal or not leave.

Are we still ruled by Brussels, not rules of trade, but rules of law? This was one of main reasons for leaving.

[pimpmaster9000]

well the UK is going to MAGA now...soooooo much MAGA is on the way

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by CurrentlySober

There's a 38 Billion divorce bill I think... So thats 38 Billion to be left alone. She should have offered as many billions as it took to get whatever she wanted and then just printed the money and paid it. If it was 1000 Billion it wouldn't matter cause it's only printing costs. When you print money, it's effectively free.

The money wouldn't matter to us as it would be going outside the country and not getting introduced into or effecting our UK economy.

Simples

Not quite right as the strength of the pound on international markets effects import prices. Remember when Germany printed money?

The question that's still left is will the £38bn divorce bill still be payable as it seems the UK got a shit deal?

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by thommy

where do you think all this inner european trades will go ?
they will go to exactly those countries and it will make them stronger.
britain lost his biggest trading partner and not only this. britain depends on the continent
or have to ship or fly all good inside.
you know what that means to distribution prices when the day comes when there will be a border and all trucks have to wait hours and hours to get through the customs ?

Again you refer to the Common Market.

do you know what it means to your education system when you can not send people easy to another country in case you have to many from them and take from other countries in case you do not have enough from them.

You just described the problem of open borders. Being outside the EU a country can now oversee who enters.

[EddyTheDog]

Raab just quit - Its highly likely there will be a no confidence vote - That means a hard brexit...

Trump on one side of the Atlantic and Boris on the other - The lunatics really will have taken over the asylum.....

[CurrentlySober]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Not quite right as the strength of the pound on international markets effects import prices.

Yeah, but it would even itself out soon enough. A bit of temporary hassle but getting out of the EU scot free, is a better, smaller price to pay than being stuck in there with no control at all until 2099....

Besides, even if we did print and give 1000 Billion over to them, only a very small amount would actually get into the economy. Most would end up in private bank accounts of certain already extremely wealthy people, and never see the light of day...

[wehateporn]

Originally Posted by EddyTheDog

Raab just quit - Its highly likely there will be a no confidence vote - That means a hard brexit...

I hope you are right about a hard Brexit, would love it

[NewNick]

Originally Posted by wehateporn

I hope you are right about a hard Brexit, would love it

Thats because you are a jobless idiot living on benefits.

Anyone with a job, or a business, should be very worried indeed about a hard Brexit.

It is fucking lunacy.

[thommy]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Yes the UK has done OK by being in the Common Market. It has suffered by being in the EU. You do understand the difference or maybe you don't?

look at the numbers again and find out since WHEN the UK is done ok.
it wasa exactly when the EU was taking place.

And there's the problem does the EU want to lose such a power house from it's club?

let me turn this question around:
does the UK really want to lose the power of this big alliance?

do you really think that a small an independent partner will get the better trading deals as a very big union?

The UK does not want to be ruled by a central committee of unelected bureaucrats passing laws it has little to no control over. It does not want to have courts that are above those based in the UK. It does not want to fund projects outside the UK with UK taxpayers money. It does not want a useless EU Army. It does not want to pay the bill for the Euro because those bureaucrats were stupid and gave it to countries that unable to manage it. It does not want the CAP a policy that was introduced to pay for small uneconomic European farms.

Maybe you do and are willing to pay for so much you don't want.

paul, WE ALL DO NOT LIKE THAT !!!!
do you know how many rules germans had to accept that came from britain?
do you even know that the idea of the "united states of europe" is a british idea ?

the EU is still a young plant and it have to grow and a lot of things have to be changed there. but at least it is a great idea and with the time it will become better and better.

at brexit you just see that everything the brexit supporters promised was a lie.
you can not declare others guilty for that.

the ones the voted for it have to accept the consequences and the ones that did not vote for it will leave the country step by step. including all those big companies that are doing much better within the union.

everybody should knew that before - but the majority of the brits just believed the fucking lies of johnson and all his idiots.

if there would be a new referendum today it would look COMPLETELY different. but that´s the hard thing on democracy that you have the right to decide but also accept the consequences. so THIS is what happens when beer pub populism stands versus reality.
good luck UK!

[Busty2]

Originally Posted by CurrentlySober

I wish we could have borrowed Donald to sort it out for us... If he had, I'm sure everyone would be 100% happy with the deal...

Best joke of the week

[thommy]

Originally Posted by CurrentlySober

Yeah, but it would even itself out soon enough. A bit of temporary hassle but getting out of the EU scot free, is a better, smaller price to pay than being stuck in there with no control at all until 2099....

Besides, even if we did print and give 1000 Billion over to them, only a very small amount would actually get into the economy. Most would end up in private bank accounts of certain already extremely wealthy people, and never see the light of day...

Great Britain, like Germany and France, is a net contributor, so the country pays more into the EU pot than it gets out. According to the latest available figures from 2014, the British Treasury HMT paid 9.9 billion pounds net in 2014, or 12.5 billion euros at today's exchange rate.

That is 190 million pounds per week, equivalent to 240.8 million euros. Calculated down to every single Briton, it is 153 pounds per year (around 194 euros) or 42 pence a day (53.2 cents) that go to the EU.

These figures are based on the so-called Pink Book of the National Statistical Office (ONS). If, however, not only the EU's financial contributions to the public sector are included in the calculation, but also those to the British private sector, the annual amount is further reduced.

On the basis of data from the European Commission, the average is 7.1 billion pounds - the equivalent of nine billion euros - which the UK transferred to the EU annually between 2010 and 2014.

However, the British GDP has increased by between 500 and 900 billion annually in the same period due to the benefits of the EU,
this bill is therefore a very stupid one. very untrue and very populist because in order to be able to pay these 1000 billion into the EU, Great britain would have had to be a member of the EU for more than 100 years and would have earned 50,000 billion more in the same time.

[CurrentlySober]

Originally Posted by thommy

in order to be able to pay these 1000 billion into the EU, Great britain would have had to be a member of the EU for more than 100 years and would have earned 50,000 billion more in the same time.

You are overthinking it. What I am proposing is that Theresa May goes to the Royal Mint (Where they print the money) and flips a switch and the printing press prints out 1000 Billion in small denomination notes.

Then, she pops it into a suitcase and catches a bus over to the EU and pops it on the table in front of the king of the EU. She then says 'We are OUT, Biatchhhh.....' drops the mic and exits stage left.

Then she gets the bus back home. Simple. No need to wait 100 years. She could probably do all that in a single afternoon, provided the buses are running on time...

[thommy]

Originally Posted by CurrentlySober

You are overthinking it. What I am proposing is that Theresa May goes to the Royal Mint (Where they print the money) and flips a switch and the printing press prints out 1000 Billion in small denomination notes.

Then, she pops it into a suitcase and catches a bus over to the EU and pops it on the table in front of the king of the EU. She then says 'We are OUT, Biatchhhh.....' drops the mic and exits stage left.

Then she gets the bus back home. Simple. No need to wait 100 years. She could probably do all that in a single afternoon, provided the buses are running on time...

the costs of the brexit will be the smallest problem.

not to deal within a union and to deal with the EU ONLY when you producing stuff what meets the EU rules will be the much bigger problem.
shipping costs will also increase and the costs for companies who want to deal with the EU will also have higher costs and they will at least move a part of their activities into the EU to prevent all the bureaucracy.

there is really nothing what makes sense on this brexit - that´s why the better name for it is brexitus.

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

A hard Brexit will be bad for Europe.

Being a member of the EU, the UK has seen the flat lining of wages for most, the export of jobs, higher unemployment, more people relying on welfare and the huge rises in National debts across the EU.

Then the future, where all control will reside with unelected bureaucrats and people not elected by the countries they rule.

The UK leaving will make the balance of power swing further in the favour of non-contributing countries and push the bill further onto the few that do contribute. Do Germans want to be paying a larger share of the EU budget and paying to prop up the Euro? Because the loss of the UK leads to that.

What are the benefits of being in the EU?

whenever I read your drivel I expect it to be written by a 17 year old that dropped out of school early and gets his "education" from social media.

but you are old enough, you have been around during the times you people destroyed your own industries through incompetence, strikes and the desperate attempt of profit maximisation. Thatcher and the Unions - you can't thank them enough.

UK and Germany are very much alike in many things, yet the Germans have a healthy economy with low unemployement and still a lot of producing industry. Both countries are in the EU, both have a large percentage of immigrants, both are net payers to the EU.

And do you have any idea how much money the reunification of Germany has cost?

Yet it's NEVER the fault of any UK government or your own people but ALWAYS the fault of the EU when things don't go the way you want it - just as countries like Italy, Greece etc use the EU as scapegoat for their own incompetency and corruption.

Is the EU perfect? By far not.

Did it give us unprecedented 70+ years of peace, economic growth, contributed to the fall of the communist Warsaw pact and gives its people the freedom to move around and live in whatever country they like?

The fuck yes.

And you idiots still don't get it - because you wouldn't realize a good thing even if it slapped you in the face.

And your migrants? 60% of them are non-EU - India, Pakistan etc - the countries you previously ruined. You can fucking leave the EU as much as you want, you'd only lose your Polish plumbers and nurses but you are still stuck with all the rest (the evil arabs, you know?).

Good luck, man, you'll need it.
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but wait - you don't even live in the UK - whatever happens to your own people will not even bother you while you keep sitting in the EU you so desperately want to leave and enjoy the benefits. Just like your hero Nigel Farage who still enjoys the money he gets paid by the EU while he disappeared from the disaster he initiated.

Hypocrit.

[thommy]

Originally Posted by StefanG

whenever I read your drivel I expect it to be written by a 17 year old that dropped out of school early and gets his "education" from social media.

but you are old enough, you have been around during the times you people destroyed your own industries through incompetence, strikes and the desperate attempt of profit maximisation. Thatcher and the Unions - you can't thank them enough.

UK and Germany are very much alike in many things, yet the Germans have a healthy economy with low unemployement and still a lot of producing industry. Both countries are in the EU, both have a large percentage of immigrants, both are net payers to the EU.

And do you have any idea how much money the reunification of Germany has cost?

Yet it's NEVER the fault of any UK government or your own people but ALWAYS the fault of the EU when things don't go the way you want it - just as countries like Italy, Greece etc use the EU as scapegoat for their own incompetency and corruption.

Is the EU perfect? By far not.

Did it give us unprecedented 70+ years of peace, economic growth, contributed to the fall of the communist Warsaw pact and gives its people the freedom to move around and live in whatever country they like?

The fuck yes.

And you idiots still don't get it - because you wouldn't realize a good thing even if it slapped you in the face.

And your migrants? 60% of them are non-EU - India, Pakistan etc - the countries you previously ruined. You can fucking leave the EU as much as you want, you'd only lose your Polish plumbers and nurses but you are still stuck with all the rest (the evil arabs, you know?).

Good luck, man, you'll need it.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
but wait - you don't even live in the UK - whatever happens to your own people will not even bother you while you keep sitting in the EU you so desperately want to leave and enjoy the benefits. Just like your hero Nigel Farage who still enjoys the money he gets paid by the EU while he disappeared from the disaster he initiated.

Hypocrit.

just thought if i can add something on that - but NO I can´t - and it would be pointless anyway because you will not keep a child away from the fire til it burns his hand.

afterwords EVERYBODY knew it better - they will never remember their own bullshit and just complain it to someone else.

[Manfap]

I cant see how this can get through parliament anyway.

Labour party are odd, they could probably win the election on the promise of a new vote, but he wont do it.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by thommy

look at the numbers again and find out since WHEN the UK is done ok.
it wasa exactly when the EU was taking place.

The Common Market was the trade deal you are in favour of. The UK signed up to the CM, it was never given a chance to vote on joining the EU. France, Holland, Eire did vote and voted no and the people were ignored. Maybe if there had been a vote in the UK the UK would have voted NO and the EU would have been scrapped. Hard to go ahead when 3 powerful economies back out.

let me turn this question around:
does the UK really want to lose the power of this big alliance?

do you really think that a small an independent partner will get the better trading deals as a very big union?

Do the non-EU countries who have trade deals with the EU have to abide by EU laws?

paul, WE ALL DO NOT LIKE THAT !!!!
do you know how many rules germans had to accept that came from britain?
do you even know that the idea of the "united states of europe" is a british idea ?

So now we are leaving it won't happen!!!

the EU is still a young plant and it have to grow and a lot of things have to be changed there. but at least it is a great idea and with the time it will become better and better.

Will it? Look at the balance of power between nations who contribute and nations who take.

If there was an EU referendum on staying in the EU or dismantling it and reverting to a free trade zone. The overwhelming majority would vote for the free trade zone. The problem is politicians won't give anyone the chance to vote.

Common Market bureaucrats and politicians took control of the trade agreement between European countries and then without asking or ignoring the people they formed the EU. Which meant not only do you lose the right to strike independent trade deals with non-EU members, you also accept centralist passing laws on your country.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by thommy

Great Britain, like Germany and France, is a net contributor, so the country pays more into the EU pot than it gets out. According to the latest available figures from 2014, the British Treasury HMT paid 9.9 billion pounds net in 2014, or 12.5 billion euros at today's exchange rate.

That is 190 million pounds per week, equivalent to 240.8 million euros. Calculated down to every single Briton, it is 153 pounds per year (around 194 euros) or 42 pence a day (53.2 cents) that go to the EU.

These figures are based on the so-called Pink Book of the National Statistical Office (ONS). If, however, not only the EU's financial contributions to the public sector are included in the calculation, but also those to the British private sector, the annual amount is further reduced.

On the basis of data from the European Commission, the average is 7.1 billion pounds - the equivalent of nine billion euros - which the UK transferred to the EU annually between 2010 and 2014.

Are the people of those countries happy to be net contributors?

However, the British GDP has increased by between 500 and 900 billion annually in the same period due to the benefits of the EU,
this bill is therefore a very stupid one. very untrue and very populist because in order to be able to pay these 1000 billion into the EU, Great britain would have had to be a member of the EU for more than 100 years and would have earned 50,000 billion more in the same time.

Where do you get your bullshit numbers from? 500 and 900 billion annually, would mean an increase in GDP of 20% to 34%.

I'm no longer discussing this with you as you've shown to post magical facts.

[wehateporn]

Originally Posted by NewNick

Thats because you are a jobless idiot living on benefits.

Anyone with a job, or a business, should be very worried indeed about a hard Brexit.

It is fucking lunacy.

You have got it confused, it is people who are self employed and with small businesses who are strongly against being in the EU. The EU is bad for people with businesses.

[wehateporn]

Originally Posted by thommy

the EU is still a young plant and it have to grow and a lot of things have to be changed there. but at least it is a great idea and with the time it will become better and better.

Unfortunately it's been setup to make corruption easier, it would have to be redesigned from the ground up, with protection built in

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by thommy

the costs of the brexit will be the smallest problem.

not to deal within a union and to deal with the EU ONLY when you producing stuff what meets the EU rules will be the much bigger problem.
shipping costs will also increase and the costs for companies who want to deal with the EU will also have higher costs and they will at least move a part of their activities into the EU to prevent all the bureaucracy.

there is really nothing what makes sense on this brexit - that´s why the better name for it is brexitus.

Again you show your ignorance. Any nation that trades with another has to comply with the rules of the importing country's rules on those goods.

Do companies in non-EU countries have to move part of their activities into the EU to prevent all the bureaucracy? No, so again you prove to be clueless.

The UK has no problem with complying with EU trade rules, the UK objects to EU laws, the European Court of Justice, the EU membership fee. n 2007, five countries - Germany, France, Italy, the UK, and Spain - contributed nearly half of the budget. In fact, Germany alone - Europe's largest economy - paid more than the 19 lowest-paying member states combined. Do those countries get half the votes?

Sefcovic launches bid to be EU Commission president. Europe must have a robust foreign policy and nurture high-tech industries, Slovak EU commissioner Maros Sefcovic has said in his bid to succeed Jean-Claude Juncker as the next European Commission president. A Slovak President.

[Paul Markham]

Did it give us unprecedented 70+ years of peace, economic growth, contributed to the fall of the communist Warsaw pact and gives its people the freedom to move around and live in whatever country they like?

I will admit that Germany has been a massive problem in the past. Starting 2 World Wars, murdering countless millions and causing huge devastation. Having the USSR and now Russia on the borders of Europe did more to prevent war than the EU.

And your migrants? 60% of them are non-EU - India, Pakistan etc - the countries you previously ruined. You can fucking leave the EU as much as you want, you'd only lose your Polish plumbers and nurses but you are still stuck with all the rest (the evil arabs, you know?).

Yes the UK has a problem with non-EU migrants. Maybe now the Government will get it and start controlling who comes in and who is kept out. Polish plumbers and nurses will get visas.

but wait - you don't even live in the UK - whatever happens to your own people will not even bother you while you keep sitting in the EU you so desperately want to leave and enjoy the benefits. Just like your hero Nigel Farage who still enjoys the money he gets paid by the EU while he disappeared from the disaster he initiated.

I live in a country a net receiver of EU funds and has no plans to leave, thankfully.

[thommy]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

The Common Market was the trade deal you are in favour of. The UK signed up to the CM, it was never given a chance to vote on joining the EU. France, Holland, Eire did vote and voted no and the people were ignored. Maybe if there had been a vote in the UK the UK would have voted NO and the EU would have been scrapped. Hard to go ahead when 3 powerful economies back out.

so than it is just a question of your form of democracy.
if you do not trust the people you´ve voted in and don´t believe that they can do the job, than you should switch to something like switzerland.
but i really doubt that brits are that smart to even vote against their own personal interest just because it is wiser.

Do the non-EU countries who have trade deals with the EU have to abide by EU laws?

of course they have - this is one of the reasons WHY they try to make common standards for the whole EU because 3rd party countries will be unable to serve 30 different standards.

So now we are leaving it won't happen!!!

just imagine what a foreign company will decide when they have to chose to change their production process and standards for a market with 500 million potential cusotmers or to a market with 50 million.
who will get the better deal you think ?

Will it? Look at the balance of power between nations who contribute and nations who take.

you should always look on 2 ends. the receivers GDP went up too. and the receivers import today MUCH more from the other EU countries as they did before.

the country you chose to live in is a recipient country. In 2004 the CZ imported a total of 150 billion crowns from the eu. In 2017 it was 350 billion crowns.

you always forget that the money people spend have to come from somewhere.
and this money what is in the circle is ALWAYS the same money.
if you do not give you can not receive - don´t you get this logic ?

you also forget how many multinational companies are located in these recipient countries. 3 times you may guess where their profit distributions will be taxed at the end
and to wich countries GDP it will counted.

If there was an EU referendum on staying in the EU or dismantling it and reverting to a free trade zone. The overwhelming majority would vote for the free trade zone. The problem is politicians won't give anyone the chance to vote.

my dear god - don´t you realize that a free trade zone is not a union?
do you think it would make economic sense if the USA consisted of 50 source free trade zones?
one builds a street the the one not and everybody makes a trading deal with all the rest of the world.

Common Market bureaucrats and politicians took control of the trade agreement between European countries and then without asking or ignoring the people they formed the EU. Which meant not only do you lose the right to strike independent trade deals with non-EU members, you also accept centralist passing laws on your country.

i know that should ask YOU before as you are an expert in trading and economy.

the point is there WILL be a brexit and in a few years we talk again.
I hope we will have enough space in the rest EU to take all those big companies, banks and skilled workers who are smarter than the ones who voted for the brexit.

nobody in the UK should cry now and just do it.
GB has been granted the highest discounts and more benefits than any other country. the largest share has always been paid by germany and france.
you're welcome to keep this to yourself now and see how you get along.

...but I forgot - you don´t have to care that anyway because you live in the EU and enjoy the prosperity you get from a big trading union.

[thommy]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

I will admit that Germany has been a massive problem in the past. Starting 2 World Wars, murdering countless millions and causing huge devastation. Having the USSR and now Russia on the borders of Europe did more to prevent war than the EU.

1. get yourself informed WHO had started the 1st WW. in the meantime you can read the truth even in britain.

https://www.theweek.co.uk/59782/how-...orld-war-start

2. in the time of WW 2 germany was a monarchy and not a republic where people could decide anything. we fucked our king out - you still live in that era.

Yes the UK has a problem with non-EU migrants. Maybe now the Government will get it and start controlling who comes in and who is kept out. Polish plumbers and nurses will get visas.

and they came with the EU ?????

NOOOOT AT AAAAAALLLLL !
this is a homemade problem and have nothing to do with the EU.
this is the late bill for imperialism.

I live in a country a net receiver of EU funds and has no plans to leave, thankfully.

actually not even that - but does the following fit into your small brain ?

Although European integration has brought the Eastern states a more productive economy and jobs, most of the profits have been transferred to the West. While inequality within these countries remains low, a colonial-like relationship with the foreign upper class is emerging. The sum far exceeds the state transfers from the EU budget, as data from Piketty's new PhD student Filip Novokmet show.

Looking at the years 2010 to 2016, Poland sent 4.7 percent of its economic output as capital income to the West - and at the same time received only 2.7 percent net from the EU budget.


The ratio for Slovakia is 4.2 to 2.2.

The balance is even less favourable for Hungary (outflows of 7.2 per cent of gross domestic product against inflows of 4 per cent) and the Czech Republic (7.6 per cent to 1.9 per cent).

sorry paul - but facts are not really your strong side.

[Paul Markham]

I find it interesting that only 2 Germans have come out so strongly for the EU marching on to it's goal of ruling Europe from the Centre.

Do they believe that Germans can then dominate the whole of Europe? I believe it was an Austrian, with German backing, who came up with that idea.

I'm all in favour of trade deals. No non-EU trade deal includes passing laws from one side. No non-EU trade deal forbids the negotiating of other trade deals. No non-EU trade deal tries to force participants to pay for a fund for the distribution to non-contributing members. I could go on with what membership of the EU means. I'll save that for later.

The discussion of the benefits of the EU are entirely based on a trade deal. So why do they need 751 MEPs plus support staff? Why do we need the European Parliament, the European Council, the Council of the European Union, the European Commission, the Court of Justice of the European Union plus all the support staff? Why do we need the European Central Bank and plus all the support staff? When it was clearly unable to control the Euro. And lastly why do we need the Court of Auditors who are inept at controlling corruption and overspending?

In 2014 the EU needed more money, so it came up with the idea the UK had to £1.7bn for the extra business in prostitution and drugs.

[NewNick]

Originally Posted by wehateporn

You have got it confused, it is people who are self employed and with small businesses who are strongly against being in the EU. The EU is bad for people with businesses.

Jesus which source of utter shite did you get that from ?

I run 3 businesses and Brexit is somewhere between shit and fucking disaster depending on the business.

Over the last couple of days the currency fluctuations alone are adding unwelcome extra costs.

Why dont you go back to David Icke and Alex Jones, thats a level of crazy that you are more comfortable with.

[thommy]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

I find it interesting that only 2 Germans have come out so strongly for the EU marching on to it's goal of ruling Europe from the Centre.

Do they believe that Germans can then dominate the whole of Europe? I believe it was an Austrian, with German backing, who came up with that idea.

shall we now start to talk about the cruels that brits have done in their bloody imperialistic era???

I'm sure we'll find enough discussion material on all the countries that the UK has a bloody trail of.

do we now REALLY want to discuss who has exploited more countries and enslaved more people in history?

I don't think you'd look good if we start that.

so you'd rather think about facts or can't think of any more?

most of the time it is so that each of you eggheads starts with this old hitler shit when you run out of arguments. are you so afraid of us that you still can not sleep in the night when you argue with a german ?

[thommy]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

In 2014 the EU needed more money, so it came up with the idea the UK had to £1.7bn for the extra business in prostitution and drugs.

By the way, THIS was also a british idea to attribute the "not brought in" tax revenues to GDP. just like the broken army tanks and not taxed revenues from drug sales.

you don't have to wonder: if you make-up the balance sheet and then suddenly realize that you have to pay your EU contributions based on GDP.

looks like you're not the only brit who forgets to turn on the brain before opening the mouth.

[JFK]

Originally Posted by CurrentlySober

I wish we could have borrowed Donald to sort it out for us... If he had, I'm sure everyone would be 100% happy with the deal...

not only can you borrow him, but you can keep him as well, for an extended period of time. You're welcome !

[NatalieK]

the British public are like jumping out of a plane with a parachute that doesn´t work, being told they can pull another spare chute, but they´re going to hold on and hope this chute works

Brexit was the wrong move like Trump was for the US...

idiots will continue to be idiots

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by GspotProductions

the British public are like jumping out of a plane with a parachute that doesn´t work, being told they can pull another spare chute, but they´re going to hold on and hope this chute works

Brexit was the wrong move like Trump was for the US...

idiots will continue to be idiots

Or is this completely Theresa May's fault?

She took negotiations down to the wire with the exit date a short time before the next round of EU elections. Which if follow the course of before will produce more right wing MEPs set on reigning back the EU.

I'm not sure if we leave completely we can continue to trade with the EU under WTO rules. The rules the rest of the world, without a trade deal, use to trade. The threat of London no longer being a main financial centre is BS. London has so many non-EU finance companies based there that non-EU countries can and do trade financially in the EU. 2008 proved that the finance markets are global.

WTO trade rules apply to both sides. Customs problems apply to both sides, passport controls apply to both sides. The threat of losing so much business apply to both sides.

But underlying everything is this proves that Brussels will stop at nothing, will not reform and will continue to dominate Europe. The fact that Spain has so many problems proves they are incapable of running Europe.

[Smack dat]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Not quite right as the strength of the pound on international markets effects import prices. Remember when Germany printed money?

The question that's still left is will the £38bn divorce bill still be payable as it seems the UK got a shit deal?

Can they just not refuse to pay the £38 billion?
Why is there in the first place?

[wehateporn]

Originally Posted by NewNick

Jesus which source of utter shite did you get that from ?

I run 3 businesses and Brexit is somewhere between shit and fucking disaster depending on the business.

You really haven't looked into this

[klinton]

Originally Posted by thommy

2. in the time of WW 2 germany was a monarchy and not a republic where people could decide anything. we fucked our king out - you still live in that era..

"you fucked your King out " ??????

if not Soviets and Churchill (and US of course), you will be living now somewhere near Yalta, enjoying free slave labour of local people in your lebensraum. on the piles of skulls of millions of people.

Also, naming Hitler as "King" is really, well, kind of..hmmmm...

[thommy]

Originally Posted by klinton

"you fucked your King out " ??????

if not Soviets and Churchill (and US of course), you will be living now somewhere near Yalta, enjoying free slave labour of local people in your lebensraum. on the piles of skulls of millions of people.

Also, naming Hitler as "King" is really, well, kind of..hmmmm...

you should read before you write.

this was about the 1st WW and than we HAD an emperor named wilhelm II

òr did your history lessons start in 1933 ?

[klinton]

Originally Posted by thommy

you should read before you write.

this was about the 1st WW and than we HAD an emperor named wilhelm II

òr did your history lessons start in 1933 ?

after all these years, I still see good, how about you ?

".in the time of WW 2 germany was a monarchy and not a republic where people could decide anything. we fucked our king out - you still live in that era."

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by klinton

"you fucked your King out " ??????

if not Soviets and Churchill (and US of course), you will be living now somewhere near Yalta, enjoying free slave labour of local people in your lebensraum. on the piles of skulls of millions of people.

Also, naming Hitler as "King" is really, well, kind of..hmmmm...

Stop replying to the idiot.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhel...German_Emperor

Will tell you about the King of Germany.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Smack dat

Can they just not refuse to pay the £38 billion?
Why is there in the first place?

Theresa May said the UK still needs to pay the £38bn

Not sure what it's for, I can only assume it's for EU spending outside the UK.

The problem with the deal is it sets no firm date for the UK to leave. After the deal is signed the UK then needs the EU to allow the UK to leave.

[thommy]

Originally Posted by klinton

after all these years, I still see good, how about you ?

".in the time of WW 2 germany was a monarchy and not a republic where people could decide anything. we fucked our king out - you still live in that era."

that was a simple writing mistake if you look one line before you would know what i was referring to.

you really don´t have to tell me about the history of my country - i know it MUCH better as you will ever do.

[thommy]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Theresa May said the UK still needs to pay the £38bn

Not sure what it's for, I can only assume it's for EU spending outside the UK.

I thought you know ALL about it and now you don´t even know how the EU works ?

http://www.iiea.com/ftp/Publications...%20MGTutty.pdf

The problem with the deal is it sets no firm date for the UK to leave. After the deal is signed the UK then needs the EU to allow the UK to leave.

sure it have a fixed date
March 23. 2019 at midnight.

you do not even know basic facts but you know what would be right and wrong.
that´s why many people here call that paulmarkhamming - what means: know shit - talk shit.