LOL: Bernie Sanders campaign announces it will cut hours to pay staffers $15 minimum wage

[OneHungLo]

Hey Bernie you fuckwit, guess what happens when you try to federally mandate that $15 dollar minimum wage??

Anyone here actually voting for this numbskull? lol

Democrat presidential candidate Bernie Sanders announced this weekend he will cut staffers' hours so that they can effectively be paid a $15-an-hour minimum wage, prompting mockery from critics who say the move is more evidence that Sanders' plan to raise the national minimum wage is hypocritical and would only lead to less work and more unemployment.

The Washington Post first reported last Thursday that Sanders' field staffers were upset that Sanders championed a $15 minimum wage on the campaign trail, and made headlines for railing against major corporations who pay "starvation wages" -- even as his own employees made "poverty wages."

In response, Sanders told The Des Moines Register he was "very proud" to lead the first major presidential campaign with unionized workers, but also "bothered" that news of the internal strife had spilled into the media.

BERNIE SANDERS SAYS HIS $40 TRILLION MEDICARE-FOR-ALL PLAN WOULD HELP US SAVE MONEY

The self-described socialist candidate said junior field organizers earn roughly $36,000 per year in salary, with employer-paid health care and sick leave. But he acknowledged that their salary can effectively dip below $15 per hour if staffers work much more than 40 hours per week, which is common on presidential campaigns.

The solution is to "limit the number of hours staffers work to 42 or 43 each week to ensure they’re making the equivalent of $15 an hour," he told the Register's Brianne Pfannenstiel.

"It does bother me that people are going outside of the process and going to the media," Sanders added. "That is really not acceptable. It is really not what labor negotiations are about, and it's improper."

He went on to say that the union contract "not only provides pay of at least $15 an hour, it also provides, I think, the best health care benefits that any employer can provide for our field organizers."

WATCH: GUTFELD ON SANDERS' STAFF DEMANDING MORE WAGES

Reaction from commentators and lawmakers was unsparing.

"For the first time in his life, socialist Bernie Sanders practices economics and, buddy, the results are hilarious," wrote columnist and humorist Stephen Miller. He added: "Why won’t millionaire Bernie Sanders, who owns 3 homes, instead of cutting hours, pay his staff a living wage? People are starving."

Texas Republican Rep. Dan Crenshaw lambasted the discord in the Sanders' campaign -- which has been struggling in post-debate polls -- as beyond parody.

"So does this fall under the category of hypocrisy, irony, or poetic justice?" Crenshaw asked. "All three? Can’t make this stuff up."

Others pointed out that the change would not mean an increase in pay for Sanders' employees, and argued the move was merely a "cynical" way for Sanders to technically meet their demands rather than actually pay them more money.

"This situation is an instructive example of the downside of more than doubling the minimum wage," wrote The Blaze's Aaron Colen. "Companies don't just suddenly get more money to pay employees. They have to make tough decisions; usually either cutting hours, or worse, cutting staff."

Added The Daily Wire's Ashe Shcow: "This is just *chef’s kiss*." Ben Shaprio wrote, "In which Bernie Sanders learns about economics."

The development comes days after the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO) concluded that a proposed $15 federal minimum wage could result in 3.7 million people becoming unemployed -- far higher than House Democrats' estimates -- as employers struggle to make payroll and respond by slashing jobs and hours.

The CBO noted the "considerable uncertainty" in calculating the impact of the minimum wage from state to state, and indicated that up to 17 million Americans could see pay increases.

LIZ PEEK: HOW BERNIE SANDERS WILL BE TO BLAME IF DEMS LOSE BIG IN 2020

Republican leaders have said a minimum wage hike would be “devastating” for middle-class families, citing CBO research finding that the minimum wage hike would also reduce business income, raise consumer prices and reduce the nation’s output. Overall, the CBO said the move would reduce real family income by about $9 billion in 2025 -- or 0.1 percent.

Nevertheless, the Democrat-controlled House last week voted in favor of a bill to gradually raise the federal minimum wage to $15 per hour. The current federal minimum wage is $7.25 per hour, unchanged since 2009. The bill is unlikely to see much traction in the Republican-controlled Senate.

The episode underscored a key vulnerability that has dogged Sanders' campaign for months, and which intensified after Sanders released ten years of his tax returns earlier this year. The documents showed Sanders and his wife paid a 26 percent effective tax rate on $561,293 in income, and made more than $1 million in both 2016 and 2017.

Despite advocating for socialism on the world stage, Sanders donated only $10,600 to charity in 2016 and $36,300 in 2017, the records showed, followed by nearly $19,000 in 2018.

Meanwhile, according to a letter from campaign staffers to Sanders campaign manager Faiz Shakir, workers were being "expected to build the largest grassroots organizing program in American history while making poverty wages."

“Given our campaign’s commitment to fighting for a living wage of at least $15.00 an hour,” the letter continued, “we believe it is only fair that the campaign would carry through this commitment to its own field team.”

Sanders admitted in a combative Fox News town hall in April that "you're going to pay more in taxes" if he becomes president.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ber...mpting-mockery

[pimpmaster9000]

the republican plan: fuck the poor, deport them to other countries, fuck the poor again

its bound to work

[OneHungLo]

Originally Posted by crucifissio

the republican plan: fuck the poor, deport them to other countries, fuck the poor again

its bound to work

Do you think the Bernie campaign slaves that got the pay raise but then had their hours cut were pondering...




That seriously must have been a come to Jesus moment

[RedFred]

Weird that 90% of Trump cultists on here claim they were Bernie supporters and now this thread.

[escorpio]

Bernie is a joke.

[thommy]

Originally Posted by OneHungLo

Hey Bernie you fuckwit, guess what happens when you try to federally mandate that $15 dollar minimum wage??

Anyone here actually voting for this numbskull? lol

hey one hung, you moron.
how much do you think americans should get paid when they will take over the general manager jobs from the illegals ?

do you think that your white racist brothers will work for 8 US, you clown ?

[OneHungLo]

Originally Posted by RedFred

Weird that 90% of Trump cultists on here claim they were Bernie supporters and now this thread.

(D) Bernie is part of your crew

What a cluster fuck of failures to choose from

[thommy]

Originally Posted by RedFred

Weird that 90% of Trump cultists on here claim they were Bernie supporters and now this thread.

what do you expect from evangelic, rural white man over 50 with no college ?

[NoWhErE]

I dont get it.

Obviously there is a fixed staffing budget of lets say $600 per week per employee ($15 x 40 hours).

They want to offer $15 an hour, but are budgeted for $600 a week. To keep the budget, they need to limit the number of hours. The worker earns the same amount of money but isnt at risk of being abused by working 80 hours a week to earn the same amount.

I figure the problem here is people think that cutting hours = cutting into their pay when its not.

Whats the outrage?

[OneHungLo]

Originally Posted by NoWhErE

I dont get it.

Obviously there is a fixed staffing budget of lets say $600 per week per employee ($15 x 40 hours).

They want to offer $15 an hour, but are budgeted for $600 a week. To keep the budget, they need to limit the number of hours. The worker earns the same amount of money but isnt at risk of being abused by working 80 hours a week to earn the same amount.

I figure the problem here is people think that cutting hours = cutting into their pay when its not.

Whats the outrage?

It's the ol' bait and switch. I really don't think Bernie supporters were advocating for the $15 an hour with less hours. I think they want the same hours at $15. duh.

Plus a lot of companies only offer the bennies to full-time employees.

This is why you do not want the government dictating an hourly wage. The market will decide that. If you're worth $15 an hour and you're only getting paid $10 someone will steal you from that employer.

[NoWhErE]

Originally Posted by OneHungLo

It's the ol' bait and switch. I really don't think Bernie supporters were advocating for the $15 an hour with less hours. I think they want the same hours at $15. duh.

Plus a lot of companies only offer the bennies to full-time employees.

This is why you do not want the government dictating an hourly wage. The market will decide that. If you're worth $15 an hour and you're only getting paid $10 someone will steal you from that employer.

I don't know about you, but being offered to make the same amount of money per week and working less hours = win to me.

Your article says the staffers are limited to working 42 to 43 hours a week, which is still full time employment.

I don't see the problem. What am I missing here?

[Bladewire]

Originally Posted by NoWhErE

I don't know about you, but being offered to make the same amount of money per week and working less hours = win to me.

He doesn't get it. He's a trump supporter and self admitted racist. He'll never get it until he's in an old folks home surrounded by staff that are immigrants & people of color.

Bernie's campaign has tanked and this is a stunt to place blame in the future.

[OneHungLo]

Originally Posted by NoWhErE

I don't know about you, but being offered to make the same amount of money per week and working less hours = win to me.

Your article says the staffers are limited to working 42 to 43 hours a week, which is still full time employment.

I don't see the problem. What am I missing here?

They work 60 hrs a week

[OneHungLo]

Originally Posted by NoWhErE

I don't know about you, but being offered to make the same amount of money per week and working less hours = win to me.

Your article says the staffers are limited to working 42 to 43 hours a week, which is still full time employment.

I don't see the problem. What am I missing here?

They work 60 hrs a week @13 an hour and he CUT their hours back to 42 @15 to even it out.

Now that might work for bernie but if you run a business and need someone there for 40 hours you can’t pay them 15 and cut their hours in half.

You don’t understand the problem with that? You’re looking at it from an employee standpoint and not as an employer.

[baddog]

Originally Posted by NoWhErE

I don't know about you, but being offered to make the same amount of money per week and working less hours = win to me.

Your article says the staffers are limited to working 42 to 43 hours a week, which is still full time employment.

I don't see the problem. What am I missing here?

You must be trolling, you can't be that dumb.

[NoWhErE]

Originally Posted by OneHungLo

They work 60 hrs a week @13 an hour and he CUT their hours back to 42 @15 to even it out.

Now that might work for bernie but if you run a business and need someone there for 40 hours you can’t pay them 15 and cut their hours in half.

You don’t understand the problem with that? You’re looking at it from an employee standpoint and not as an employer.

Where does it say they work 60 hours a week @ $13 an hour? I quickly scanned the article and saw no mention of it

[NoWhErE]

Originally Posted by baddog

You must be trolling, you can't be that dumb.

Not trolling and you calling anyone dumb is hilarious.

[Bladewire]

↑↑↑ Truth

[OneHungLo]

Originally Posted by NoWhErE

Where does it say they work 60 hours a week @ $13 an hour? I quickly scanned the article and saw no mention of it

it was on a more in-depth article. I’m on my mobile but if you google it you’ll find it.

[kane]

Originally Posted by NoWhErE

Where does it say they work 60 hours a week @ $13 an hour? I quickly scanned the article and saw no mention of it

Here is what is happening.

Bernie's staff unionized and negotiated contracts for pay. The pay for field workers came out to around $17/hr based on a 40hr week. The problem was that most of those people ended up working more like 60hr week. Since it is a salaried position they don't get any more money so their effective pay rate dropped to around $13/hr. They were, understandably, not happy and complained. Sander's campaign then offered them two choices to remedy the situation. They could get a raise and make more money but that would require them to work the larger number of hours or they would be cut back to a max of 43hr week. They chose the reduction in hours.

So, they are getting the same amount of money as they were before they are just working fewer hours for it. Conservatives see the misleading headline, laugh, and don't bother to read.

[OneHungLo]

Originally Posted by kane

Here is what is happening.

Bernie's staff unionized and negotiated contracts for pay. The pay for field workers came out to around $17/hr based on a 40hr week. The problem was that most of those people ended up working more like 60hr week. Since it is a salaried position they don't get any more money so their effective pay rate dropped to around $13/hr. They were, understandably, not happy and complained. Sander's campaign then offered them two choices to remedy the situation. They could get a raise and make more money but that would require them to work the larger number of hours or they would be cut back to a max of 43hr week. They chose the reduction in hours.

So, they are getting the same amount of money as they were before they are just working fewer hours for it. Conservatives see the misleading headline, laugh, and don't bother to read.

The bottom line is, they were making an equivalent of $13 an hour. They wanted $15. Bernie said sure then cut their hours to 40. Why not give them $15 @ 60?

This is a blunder for Bernie.

Everyone that runs a business knows that in the real world you can't give your $10 an hour employees a $15 pay raise then cut their hours.

Is disingenuous and it's sad that you're trying to defend it.

[OneHungLo]

You never want the government dictating an hourly wage. They need to scrap it all together. The market sorts this out. And those low paying jobs are entry level positions that are never meant to support a family. You don't create a family without a way to pay for them.

https://www.seattlebusinessmag.com/paying-price-15-hour

^^ look at how it's working out in Seattle.

[RedFred]

Oneunhungho caught lying again.

[OneHungLo]

Originally Posted by RedFred

Oneunhungho caught lying again.

Where was the lie, Alfred?

[Sly]

Originally Posted by OneHungLo

The bottom line is, they were making an equivalent of $13 an hour. They wanted $15. Bernie said sure then cut their hours to 40. Why not give them $15 @ 60?

This is a blunder for Bernie.

Everyone that runs a business knows that in the real world you can't give your $10 an hour employees a $15 pay raise then cut their hours.

Is disingenuous and it's sad that you're trying to defend it.

A political campaign that wants its staffers working less...

[huey]

Awesome of Bernie to pay his staff the absolute minimum.

[NoWhErE]

Originally Posted by OneHungLo

The bottom line is, they were making an equivalent of $13 an hour. They wanted $15. Bernie said sure then cut their hours to 40. Why not give them $15 @ 60?

This is a blunder for Bernie.

Everyone that runs a business knows that in the real world you can't give your $10 an hour employees a $15 pay raise then cut their hours.

Is disingenuous and it's sad that you're trying to defend it.

$17 @ 40 hours = $680 a week (original contract)
$12ish @ 60 hours = $680 a week (what they earned)
$15 @ 43 hours = $645 a week (renegociated terms... I assume there is more benefits to make for the slight loss of revenue)
$15 @ 60 hours = $900 a week (OneHungLo's statement)

I think the mistake here is you're not doing simple math. Bernie can't just magically increase his staff budget by 40% just for fun. Thats not how you run a business.

Its pretty obvious that the employees were hired at $17 an hour, but with the amount of hours paid they ended up at $12-13 an hour. So they re-negociated to balance a healthy amount of work and pay while still remaining within budget.

Conclusion: This is a non-issue and the article is dog shit.

[adultinnovation]

that guy is a demented lunatic

[escorpio]

He's been over for awhile.

[King Mark]

I always thought anything over 40 is time and a half or some shit right? I dont do 9-5 so I'm not 100% sure.

Anyway:

40×13= $520
20×19.50(time and a half) = 390
Total= $910 a week

vs

40 times 15 = $600 a week

Lmao...

That might suck for overtime parasites that live beyond their means and have to milk them overtime hours to afford their car (a lot of my friends I roast daily).

But if my math is right, for the average joe that's trying to be home after putting in their 8 for the day to raise their kids, that's an extra $80 a week.

40 hours keeps the bennies too.

So it all depends on how you look at it. Either way, Bernie needed to sit down a long time ago. He's the song that never ends.

[NoWhErE]

Originally Posted by Dead Eye

I always thought anything over 40 is time and a half or some shit right? I dont do 9-5 so I'm not 100% sure.

Anyway:

40×13= $520
20×19.50(time and a half) = 390
Total= $910 a week

vs

40 times 15 = $600 a week

Lmao...

That might suck for overtime parasites that live beyond their means and have to milk them overtime hours to afford their car (a lot of my friends I roast daily).

But if my math is right, for the average joe that's trying to be home after putting in their 8 for the day to raise their kids, that's an extra $80 a week.

40 hours keeps the bennies too.

So it all depends on how you look at it. Either way, Bernie needed to sit down a long time ago. He's the song that never ends.

I have no clue what their contract looks like, but usually a salaried person doesn't get time and a half. They get paid a fixed amount per week/month in exchange for an indefinite amount of hours.

Obviously there are exceptions. But without knowing more about their contracts, I am going to assume they don't get time and a half.

[Axeman]

Originally Posted by kane

Here is what is happening.

Bernie's staff unionized and negotiated contracts for pay. The pay for field workers came out to around $17/hr based on a 40hr week. The problem was that most of those people ended up working more like 60hr week. Since it is a salaried position they don't get any more money so their effective pay rate dropped to around $13/hr. They were, understandably, not happy and complained. Sander's campaign then offered them two choices to remedy the situation. They could get a raise and make more money but that would require them to work the larger number of hours or they would be cut back to a max of 43hr week. They chose the reduction in hours.

So, they are getting the same amount of money as they were before they are just working fewer hours for it. Conservatives see the misleading headline, laugh, and don't bother to read.

That is how I understood it as well.

[kane]

Originally Posted by OneHungLo

The bottom line is, they were making an equivalent of $13 an hour. They wanted $15. Bernie said sure then cut their hours to 40. Why not give them $15 @ 60?

This is a blunder for Bernie.

Everyone that runs a business knows that in the real world you can't give your $10 an hour employees a $15 pay raise then cut their hours.

Is disingenuous and it's sad that you're trying to defend it.

Again, read the article.

Bernie and his staff offered them TWO choices. They could reduce their hours to a max of 43 hr week or they could be giving a raise that would have worked out to $15/hr for 60hr week but since it is a salary they would be required to work those 60 hours. They took the fewer hours.

Also, their original contract paid them $17/hr for a 40 hr week and they ended up working more. They were never intended to work that number of hours which is part of why they were angry.

This is a good thing for the people that work for Bernie but your hatred of anything non-Trump won't allow you to see that.

[TheSquealer]

Originally Posted by kane

This is a good thing for the people that work for Bernie but your hatred of anything non-Trump won't allow you to see that.

you're slowly slipping into crockett mental territory over the last couple years with your completely imagined notion of everyone else's "hate" and your increasingly vitriolic rhetoric... all while completely dismissing all of the nonstop hate and bile of the left.

[RedFred]

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

you're slowly slipping into crockett mental territory over the last couple years with your completely imagined notion of everyone else's "hate" and your increasingly vitriolic rhetoric... all while completely dismissing all of the nonstop hate and bile of the left.

I'm actually starting to believe you're the guy in your avatar.

[TheSquealer]

Originally Posted by RedFred

I'm actually starting to believe you're the guy in your avatar.

Well, knowing that you are Bladewires submissive bottom and have no opinions of your own, I believe you do, when Bladewire tells you what to think.

[NoWhErE]

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

Well, knowing that you are Bladewires submissive bottom and have no opinions of your own, I believe you do, when Bladewire tells you things like that.

Watching an anonymous troll with multiple nicks call out another guy with multiple nicks:

[RedFred]

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

Well, knowing that you are Bladewires submissive bottom and have no opinions of your own, I believe you do, when Bladewire tells you what to think.

Snappy comeback.

[OneHungLo]

Originally Posted by NoWhErE

Bernie can't just magically increase his staff budget by 40% just for fun. Thats not how you run a business.

Well if Bernie CAN'T, how does he expect everyone else to????

Min wage: $7.25 USD per hour
Bernie's min wage: $15.00 USD

That's a 106% increase! 40% should be do able!!

[NoWhErE]

Originally Posted by OneHungLo

Well if Bernie CAN'T, how does he expect everyone else to????

Min wage: $7.25 USD per hour
Bernie's min wage: $15.00 USD

That's a 106% increase! 40% should be do able!!

A fixed campaign budget vs a for-profit's payroll are 2 totally different things. Comparing them doesn't make any type of sense.

[Sly]

Originally Posted by NoWhErE

A fixed campaign budget vs a for-profit's payroll are 2 totally different things. Comparing them doesn't make any type of sense.

Why not?

Where does the extra for-profit payroll money come from? It doesn't magically appear from nowhere.

There needs to be cuts somewhere in order to make up for the difference. Where do you think the cuts will be?

A few options would be:
dividends
C level payroll
number of employees
number of hours
quality of service
quality of product

Which of those do you think will take the hit first? It's not dividends and C level payroll.

[Bladewire]

Originally Posted by OneHungLo

Well if Bernie CAN'T, how does he expect everyone else to????

You are retard level 5 comparing a presidential campaign with volunteers, anonymous donors, etc. with a for profit business. Get out of that shithole Boston your mind will be in a better place, though you will likely still remain stupid.

[TheSquealer]

Originally Posted by NoWhErE

Watching an anonymous troll with multiple nicks call out another guy with multiple nicks:

Sly knows me quite well, personally. Well enough that I used to have a key to his home. He's posting here. OneHungLo knows me. We all, having been around for a very long time and being actual old school webmasters know a lot of the people here and have a lot of mutual friends and have made more money in this biz than you'll make if you lived a dozen lifetimes.

But... what about you? Who knows you? Who have you worked with? Who have you made money for? Strange how those who love to scream "Fake nic" seem to have no one vouching for them.. except other similarly delusional clowns.

The fact is that it is almost exclusively the idiots like you screaming "fake nic" and "multiple fake nics" that usually know no one... and everytime you say that dumb shit, you announce that very fact. Often times, you tards are calling people "fake nics" who are quite well established in the biz and quite well known and who have been around since the beginning.

[kane]

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

you're slowly slipping into crockett mental territory over the last couple years with your completely imagined notion of everyone else's "hate" and your increasingly vitriolic rhetoric... all while completely dismissing all of the nonstop hate and bile of the left.

The left has plenty of hate. Non-stop crazy hate. The right does too, it's not as bad because they are the ones in power but the attack non-stop. If you can't see that there is hate from both sides you are allowing yourself to be fooled.

[TheSquealer]

Originally Posted by kane

The left has plenty of hate. Non-stop crazy hate. The right does too, it's not as bad because they are the ones in power but the attack non-stop. If you can't see that there is hate from both sides you are allowing yourself to be fooled.

"They attack non stop"?

Really?

The Left doesn't "attack non stop"?

One side attacks with facts and arguments and the other side attacks by calling everyone racist and Nazi and white supremacist and other extreme rhetoric. That's not at all the same.

Look at the actual hate, ... direct hate from the Left on this board. Not "i interpret what you said to be hateful" but actual "people like you deserve to die" type comments.

If I put a gun to your head and told you to find me 10 people from the Left that were happy for a strong economy, strong jobs numbers, negotiating with north korea, strong stock performance etc,... you couldn't do it.

That's not "the Right" hating.

The bulk of your idea of "hate" is imagined. It's the liberal narrative that CNN, MSNBC and others have been pounding into your head 24/7 since 2016.

And of course you punctuate your remark with the usual suggestion "if you don't view the world exactly like i do...then you're being brainwashed" because you and the Left can no longer tolerate diversity of opinions and well reasoned debate if it goes against the Liberal narrative of the day.

IF you guys had legit arguments that were so self evidently correct as you so often believe... then you could lay out points which couldn't easily be refuted without saying "white supremacist", "racist", "hate" and "nazi"

[baddog]

Originally Posted by NoWhErE

A fixed campaign budget vs a for-profit's payroll are 2 totally different things. Comparing them doesn't make any type of sense.

Oh man; obviously never been a business owner.

[NoWhErE]

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

Sly knows me quite well, personally. Well enough that I used to have a key to his home. He's posting here. OneHungLo knows me. We all, having been around for a very long time and being actual old school webmasters know a lot of the people here and have a lot of mutual friends and have made more money in this biz than you'll make if you lived a dozen lifetimes.

But... what about you? Who knows you? Who have you worked with? Who have you made money for? Strange how those who love to scream "Fake nic" seem to have no one vouching for them.. except other similarly delusional clowns.

The fact is that it is almost exclusively the idiots like you screaming "fake nic" and "multiple fake nics" that usually know no one... and everytime you say that dumb shit, you announce that very fact. Often times, you tards are calling people "fake nics" who are quite well established in the biz and quite well known and who have been around since the beginning.

All you need is a quick look at my post sy history to know who i am. Im not hiding anything,i just dont talk about it unless asked. I have worked with and built very successful programs and have won multiple gfy awards.

Even Baddog has taken pictures of me countless times over the years. Ive also done business with plenty of active posters here.

Go to any tube and you’ll see my work in the ads or in the content.

You... still no clue who or what you do except troll. Ive never seen you do actual business advice or contribute to a business thread.

Other than Sly, the only other person that can vouch for you is that clown of a person Hunglo? Yeah i call bullshit on tou still being in this industry

[Bladewire]

Originally Posted by NoWhErE

Other than Sly, the only other person that can vouch for you is that clown of a person Hunglo? Yeah i call bullshit on everything you say.

Half of GFY has him blocked because of his manic cut paste alt-right shit posts. He's a fake nic. You're smart not to believe his bullshit. If Sly comes in to vouche for him as being his close friend then that tells you a lot about Sly

[TheSquealer]

Originally Posted by Bladewire

Half of GFY has him blocked because of his manic cut paste alt-right shit posts. He's a fake nic. You're smart not to believe his bullshit. If Sly comes in to vouche for him as being his close friend then that tells you a lot about Sly

And you're what? That guy who posted a profile of a gay chaturbate model to prove you are in the biz.

Uh huh...............

The forum lunatic who has tanked this forum single handedly and can't post without lying wants to question the integrity of others. Makes sense.

[Bladewire]

Originally Posted by baddog

Oh man; obviously never been a business owner.

A few months ago you bragged about getting your pension. Your boss must have been proud. So many years you slaved for someone else. Riding your bike around to drink beer was your failed hobby, not a business. You are in no way one to speak on behalf of business owners.