Online Advertising is getting out of control

[2MuchMark]

No wonder more and more people are using adblockers.

So today I am having trouble connecting a PC to a network and sharing files between it and a Mac, so I hit the Googletron5000 looking for answers.

One website that has a step by step solution of about 8 lines or so, has no less than 30 fucking ads on each fucking page.

Banner ads, video ads, pop-up ads, text ads, fake ads related to my search or the page that I am on - it is insane.

If your website has ads, take a breath, and then look at your site from the consumers point of view. Is there too much shit clouding your content? Are you annoying the fuck out of him? Do you need him to return to your site again? Consider cleaning up your site and removing some ads. And if you buy ads, ask to see a landing page containing your ads. If that page is cram-named with other shit, look for another advertising service provider.

Think like a consumer.

[Klen]

Yes it is, especialy sites which block full access if you use adblock. I dont even know how they figure it out, since i use hosts file to block, not classical browsers extension.

[NoWhErE]

Originally Posted by 2MuchMark

No wonder more and more people are using adblockers.

So today I am having trouble connecting a PC to a network and sharing files between it and a Mac, so I hit the Googletron5000 looking for answers.

One website that has a step by step solution of about 8 lines or so, has no less than 30 fucking ads on each fucking page.

Banner ads, video ads, pop-up ads, text ads, fake ads related to my search or the page that I am on - it is insane.

If your website has ads, take a breath, and then look at your site from the consumers point of view. Is there too much shit clouding your content? Are you annoying the fuck out of him? Do you need him to return to your site again? Consider cleaning up your site and removing some ads. And if you buy ads, ask to see a landing page containing your ads. If that page is cram-named with other shit, look for another advertising service provider.

Think like a consumer.

Thats a nice thought and all, but how else am I going to finance my expensive cocaine habit?

[2MuchMark]

Originally Posted by KlenTelaris

Yes it is, especialy sites which block full access if you use adblock. I dont even know how they figure it out, since i use hosts file to block, not classical browsers extension.

How stupid. Of course some sites make money only on advertising, but hammering your customer with endless ads only (a) pisses him off and (b) makes him "immune" forcing him to completely ignore all of the ads, resulting in far less clicks, not more.

[CurrentlySober]

Originally Posted by 2MuchMark

Is there too much shit clouding your content?

No, that IS my content.

[Klen]

Originally Posted by 2MuchMark

How stupid. Of course some sites make money only on advertising, but hammering your customer with endless ads only (a) pisses him off and (b) makes him "immune" forcing him to completely ignore all of the ads, resulting in far less clicks, not more.

Yep, i just yahoo to find matching content since almost nobody is producing unique content anyway.

[2MuchMark]

Originally Posted by CurrentlySober

No, that IS my content.

[adspyglass]

Hey,
We had some intense discussion of ad formats and annoying ads here: Annoying ads thread
But there are site built for popular searches or keyworks "how to remove" they get quick traffic, but not for a long time really

[adspyglass]

Originally Posted by KlenTelaris

Yes it is, especialy sites which block full access if you use adblock. I dont even know how they figure it out, since i use hosts file to block, not classical browsers extension.

Never understand that notices "Please disable adblock, we are hungry"
I waste same time to google same content as I push disable for this site.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by 2MuchMark

How stupid. Of course some sites make money only on advertising, but hammering your customer with endless ads only (a) pisses him off and (b) makes him "immune" forcing him to completely ignore all of the ads, resulting in far less clicks, not more.

the site with slow ad time load so you accidental hit the ad links

[Diomed]

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

the site with slow ad time load so you accidental hit the ad links

Measured down to the pixel.

Google will end up losing its position as #1. Trying to get a basic recipe is like running in sand, every site has been monetized to the max and real information is getting pushed further and further down the rabbit hole.

Blows my mind because these ads are already so terribly ineffective.

Next advent, advertising that isn't advertising.

[thommy]

Originally Posted by KlenTelaris

Yes it is, especialy sites which block full access if you use adblock. I dont even know how they figure it out, since i use hosts file to block, not classical browsers extension.

that is quite easy to find out - you can not dedect the browser extension anyway.

and I personally think that blocking access to a site that make money with ads is just fair.

but OP ist correct with what he complains and the big problem on that is called CPM.

CPM is representing only the impression of an ad. but traffic on a target page needs visitors and visitors come through clicks.

as more aggressive a banner is as higher is the clickrate.
but on the other hand clickrate have nothing to do with conversion rate.
in most cases a high clicked ad have a terrible conversion rate simply because it have to lie to get the click.

a low conversion rate will always lead to the fact that an advertiser can not pay a high price and he will lower the CPM bid.

the publisher reacts by adding more bannerspots that now compete with all others. the high clickrate will be shared between all this fake banners and each ad will receive less clicks and the advertiser have to decrease his bid again.

this is the reason why CPM prices declines since 15 years constantly.

it also leaded to the fact that designers learned how to make high clicked ads but forgot how to create high converting ads.

I can see every day that 90% of all advertisers have no skills in advertising and are focused on a high CTR - wich means that they hope that there are some buyers in a big number of traffic. but this is not called advertising - this is playing lottery.

when i created my network 7 years ago everybody laughed at me because I banned CPM completely and focused on good old fashioned CPC. I did not adapt the coalition for better ads rules - I had them long before CFBA exists and even harder.

the result I see is a constant grow in prices, revenue and results for our publishers.
It may take a bit longer but in this 7 years was not even one year where we stopped to grow.

another big problem is that nearly every network is working with RTB.
everybody is selling every spot from every network and it is not possible that a trafficseller even knows the website where he sells an impression right now - he also does not know how many spots are on this page and who the owner of this website is.
this opens big doors for fraud and the here mentioned experience.

my way is a complete different and i have no intention to become the biggest network on the planet. I am pretty sure that the money will go to where it makes sense and profit - with other words: back to the roots.
the complete advertising industry, online and offline is not based on the numbers of ads a user sees - it is not based on the numbers of clicks being sold - it is simply based on the consumption that is caused through advertising.
and one thing that every good salesman should know is that TRUST is the most important factor to make a sale.

[iceboi]

If you are to be fair, ablock users caused this predicament. This is the cycle:

Website has moderate amount of ads>
Some users start using adblock>
Website put up more ads to compensate for the lost revenue>
More users learn about adblock>
Websites put up even more ads for...and the cycle goes on.

There's no way a site can make the same amount of revenue with the same amount of ads as pre-ablock days. So the non ablock users are the ones suffering.

Not making excuses, just being reasonable. And you can expect to see even worst situations as adblock usage surges.

[thommy]

Originally Posted by iceboi

If you are to be fair, ablock users caused this predicament. This is the cycle:

Website has moderate amount of ads>
Some users start using adblock>
Website put up more ads to compensate for the lost revenue>
More users learn about adblock>
Websites put up even more ads for...and the cycle goes on.

There's no way a site can make the same amount of revenue with the same amount of ads as pre-ablock days. So the non ablock users are the ones suffering.

Not making excuses, just being reasonable. And you can expect to see even worst situations as adblock usage surges.

your circle does not make sense as more ads will not help when they are blocked.
you just show more ads to users with no blocker and that leads to

1. less clicks for CPM advertisers - followed by lower price
2. more users getting annoyed and installing an adblocker

what you say is the same as:

i wanted to rob him and would only hit him if he would not have a gun - so i shot him.

to get around adblockers is not such a big deal - but if you do it to annoy than with the banners - it leads to a cat an mouse game.

if you go around adblockers and show users that there is nothing that is annoying they will not even try to block your anti adblocking.

apart from that adblockers are not such a big topic anymore since every big newssite force users to deactivate them. this is so boring that many users have already switched them off.

the numbers of adblocker users are actually decreasing since coalition for better ads and harder chrome restrictions.

[trevesty]

Originally Posted by KlenTelaris

Yes it is, especialy sites which block full access if you use adblock. I dont even know how they figure it out, since i use hosts file to block, not classical browsers extension.

It's fairly simple, actually. You try to load a test file that any ad blocker would block. Check console log to see if it's loaded - if not, show annoying overlay.

[trevesty]

Originally Posted by thommy

your circle does not make sense as more ads will not help when they are blocked.
you just show more ads to users with no blocker and that leads to

1. less clicks for CPM advertisers - followed by lower price
2. more users getting annoyed and installing an adblocker

what you say is the same as:

i wanted to rob him and would only hit him if he would not have a gun - so i shot him.

to get around adblockers is not such a big deal - but if you do it to annoy than with the banners - it leads to a cat an mouse game.

if you go around adblockers and show users that there is nothing that is annoying they will not even try to block your anti adblocking.

apart from that adblockers are not such a big topic anymore since every big newssite force users to deactivate them. this is so boring that many users have already switched them off.

the numbers of adblocker users are actually decreasing since coalition for better ads and harder chrome restrictions.

from a strictly objective POV, you're correct in that his circle doesn't make sense.

but there's plenty of webmasters who use this flawed logic. same for Google's new guidelines especially re: pops. less pops? ok, more banners and more aggressive pre-rolls, etc., then.

[thommy]

Originally Posted by trevesty

from a strictly objective POV, you're correct in that his circle doesn't make sense.

but there's plenty of webmasters who use this flawed logic. same for Google's new guidelines especially re: pops. less pops? ok, more banners and more aggressive pre-rolls, etc., then.

unfortunately this kind of cannibalism always killed every good idea in www.

webmasters should accept that running over the limit or trying to get more for less will end up in suicide.

you can make so much money with advertising as it is the one and only market that have more demand than supply. but the demand is not on crap - it is on quality - at the moment when an advertiser can not make money with his his advertising he will give up or lower the price.

on the other hand if you try to sell quality they will go up to their limits and will have unlimited budgets to compete with each other. i rather try to sell 1000 clicks for 0,20 as 10.000 for 0,01. also from the view of a publisher it is much better because less people are leaving the site.

[Paul Markham]

This industry knows the cost of ads. Instead of selling porn we now sell ads by giving the life blood of the industry away for free. And the industry earns less.

I have an ad blocker, it stops most ads. Never ever buy anything from a paid link, because the admen can go fuck themselves.

[thommy]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

This industry knows the cost of ads. Instead of selling porn we now sell ads by giving the life blood of the industry away for free. And the industry earns less.

I have an ad blocker, it stops most ads. Never ever buy anything from a paid link, because the admen can go fuck themselves.

looool - even your good old times would not exist without paid ads.

there is no difference if you pay for a click or give revshare.

but we all know that you are the one that rules the internet with your adblocker.
if you just switch your blocker on we all go bankrupt.

[ghjghj]

Originally Posted by KlenTelaris

especialy sites which block full access if you use adblock

Just adblock the anti adblock. That's what I do. Usually works.

[trevesty]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

This industry knows the cost of ads. Instead of selling porn we now sell ads by giving the life blood of the industry away for free. And the industry earns less.

I have an ad blocker, it stops most ads. Never ever buy anything from a paid link, because the admen can go fuck themselves.

More companies make substantially more money in the porn industry than they ever would've dreamed of in your time, old man.

I know multiple single-member LLC owners (affiliates) who have multiple super cars in their garage(s).

Not to mention the big boys..

It's amazing to me how clueless you are, yet think you offer any value whatsoever... besides entertainment, of course.

[trevesty]

Originally Posted by thommy

unfortunately this kind of cannibalism always killed every good idea in www.

webmasters should accept that running over the limit or trying to get more for less will end up in suicide.

you can make so much money with advertising as it is the one and only market that have more demand than supply. but the demand is not on crap - it is on quality - at the moment when an advertiser can not make money with his his advertising he will give up or lower the price.

on the other hand if you try to sell quality they will go up to their limits and will have unlimited budgets to compete with each other. i rather try to sell 1000 clicks for 0,20 as 10.000 for 0,01. also from the view of a publisher it is much better because less people are leaving the site.

I agree with you. Many do this, though, then wonder why their traffic drops or suddenly Google is a big meanie asshole, etc.

[thommy]

Originally Posted by trevesty

I agree with you. Many do this, though, then wonder why their traffic drops or suddenly Google is a big meanie asshole, etc.

that´s exactly it. I am happy that at least some people understand that.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by trevesty

More companies make substantially more money in the porn industry than they ever would've dreamed of in your time, old man.

I know multiple single-member LLC owners (affiliates) who have multiple super cars in their garage(s).

Not to mention the big boys..

It's amazing to me how clueless you are, yet think you offer any value whatsoever... besides entertainment, of course.

Could they make even more money by selling porn instead of selling ad space?

As for the big boys, can you name a few who had chauffeurs drive their Rolls Royces. I can. Sullivan, Raymond, Gold, Desmond and that's just the UK.

We now sell ad space by giving away huge amounts of porn and some fools swear blind it's best.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by trevesty

I agree with you. Many do this, though, then wonder why their traffic drops or suddenly Google is a big meanie asshole, etc.

In porn what's the value of a surfer who has his dick in his hand, looking to jerk off for 20 minutes then get on with what he was doing? Be he in Boston or Borneo.

It's not so much about having the need and ability to pay as it is the desire to stop jerking off and click on a link. That's the problem 95% of the porn market faces with so many on Tubes.

Google helps surfers avoid other sites by giving them access to Tubes long before they send them to blogs or review sites. Because that's what they want. They now get to see full length clips of their favourite sites, models and niches instead of articles or reviews.

Everyone would rather sell "1000 clicks for 0,20 as 10.000 for 0,01." but not if they can't buy 1000 clicks for 0,20 and can only get 10.000 for 0,01 or less.

I remember the time when 1,000 clicks meant $300 in sales. Yes those days are gone, but no bullshit about these days are better.

[tony286]

I dont get the actual benefit to the sites that buy these ads. Ive been online pretty close to the beginning and never clicked on an ad or bought something because of an ad.

[TheSquealer]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

In porn what's the value of a surfer who has his dick in his hand, looking to jerk off for 20 minutes then get on with what he was doing? Be he in Boston or Borneo.

It's not so much about having the need and ability to pay as it is the desire to stop jerking off and click on a link. That's the problem 95% of the porn market faces with so many on Tubes.

Google helps surfers avoid other sites by giving them access to Tubes long before they send them to blogs or review sites. Because that's what they want. They now get to see full length clips of their favourite sites, models and niches instead of articles or reviews.

Everyone would rather sell "1000 clicks for 0,20 as 10.000 for 0,01." but not if they can't buy 1000 clicks for 0,20 and can only get 10.000 for 0,01 or less.

I remember the time when 1,000 clicks meant $300 in sales. Yes those days are gone, but no bullshit about these days are better.

[thommy]

Originally Posted by tony286

I dont get the actual benefit to the sites that buy these ads. Ive been online pretty close to the beginning and never clicked on an ad or bought something because of an ad.

if surfers would not buy nobody would buy the ads.
but actually advertising is already the biggest industry in the complete web - no other part in internet has even a fraction of the size of online advertising.

take advertising out and you can close the internet right away because nobody can finance it any more. the biggest companies of the world are generating their revenues from free stuff - no matter if it is google or facebook or many others.

from what do you think amazone lives ?
from sales ?

nooooooooo - amazon is beside facebook and google the 3rd biggest seller of advertising in the world and the most profitabel revenues from amazon comes from adselling.

[thommy]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

In porn what's the value of a surfer who has his dick in his hand, looking to jerk off for 20 minutes then get on with what he was doing? Be he in Boston or Borneo.

It's not so much about having the need and ability to pay as it is the desire to stop jerking off and click on a link. That's the problem 95% of the porn market faces with so many on Tubes.

Google helps surfers avoid other sites by giving them access to Tubes long before they send them to blogs or review sites. Because that's what they want. They now get to see full length clips of their favourite sites, models and niches instead of articles or reviews.

Everyone would rather sell "1000 clicks for 0,20 as 10.000 for 0,01." but not if they can't buy 1000 clicks for 0,20 and can only get 10.000 for 0,01 or less.

I remember the time when 1,000 clicks meant $300 in sales. Yes those days are gone, but no bullshit about these days are better.

paul why don´t you stop trolling ?

we all know that you will never be able to understand this biz - you even did not in the past - so HOW for fuck will you understand it in the present or the future.

don´t you get that 1000 clicks for 0,20 means 200,-- euro ?????
200 euro for those that are selling the ads - the profit is ON TOP of that because nobody spends 200 euro to make 200 euro.

if you would have even a very very little idea of what we are talking here it would not even come into your mind that i meant 1000 clicks for a TOTAL price of 0,20 - you would KNOW (like everybody else who knows a little about our biz) that i meant 0,20 EACH.

you still do not even know the difference between CPC and CPM if someone talks about CPC he NEVER CAN MEAN "per 1000" - this messure is simply NOT EXISTING except in your shrink head.

you really should stop to troll around - you are too old and too dumb to understand this biz EVER.

write a little bit about diapers on boards for incontinent and tell the guys there what a great guy you used to be - they don't know it better and believe your bullshit.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

I had to endure years of people telling me traffic is king and the more traffic you have the more sign ups you get.

Now it's my turn to say "I told you so."

It's easier to put up a Tube than produce, publish, sell and make a profit with a porn site. So when BW dropped to a ridiculously low price we found out content is king and traffic is easy to get.

[optics]

Hey, I meanz, c'maan, ya know...if you hook-nosed fuckers weren't trying to systematically put everyone out of business, maybe they wouldn't have to try so hard

[Diomed]

I have never considered CTR to be relevant.. In fact, I actually use my banners/spots to filter out traffic and begin pitch continuity. The only thing that matters to me is EPC.

Blows my mind watching some of these larger buyers only focus on tracking and click performance. Granted, rotating offers to align processing with X country is extremely important.. But huge (and I mean absolutely huge) money is left on the table by ad buyers who sling terrible generic landers/front ends with zero pitch/branding continuity through to join (trust building at a glance).

But I'm grateful.. It's exactly these oversights that allow me (a smedium buyer) to compete

Thommy,

While I don't agree with you politically.. You've made some very estute business related posts. Although I mainly buy us-geo, I'll have to give Traffic Fabrik a look Clicked traffic is a personal favorite.

[thommy]

Originally Posted by Diomed

Thommy,

While I don't agree with you politically.. You've made some very estute business related posts. Although I mainly buy us-geo, I'll have to give Traffic Fabrik a look Clicked traffic is a personal favorite.

i can say the same about you when it comes to business threads.

I am not sure if our US traffic can make you happy as we do not have much of it.
our focus is on german speaking countries but maybe next year we will go a bit more international.
but this will take some time as I do not see many potential publishers for us in this market that will understand our concept. so we will build this traffic up with mainly own sites.

but if you want to try trafficfabrik I can help you getting the best out of it. the traffic is the same quality over all GEOs but as you surley know it is MUCH harder to optimize on small numbers as on bigger. but if you familiar with trackers and postbacks and this stuff it should not be too hard to learn especially because the competition in this smaller geos is not that strong as in our focus market.

anyway - if you are happy and buy more i reserve already the bonuscode "trumpisanasshole" for you to get a little discount

[ilnjscb]

So now with Chrome you can remove javascript by site - this allows you to remove add blocker blockers. You won't get the javascript stuff, but you will get the news, pics, etc.

[thommy]

Originally Posted by ilnjscb

So now with Chrome you can remove javascript by site - this allows you to remove add blocker blockers. You won't get the javascript stuff, but you will get the news, pics, etc.

an ad blocker blocker is just ONE option that can be used. there are many other ways to go around this blockers and show ads to users with active blockers.

[Klen]

Originally Posted by thommy

an ad blocker blocker is just ONE option that can be used. there are many other ways to go around this blockers and show ads to users with active blockers.

Yep that can be mitigated easily, by not allowing access without JavaScript enabled. Since 99.99% of users using JS, no point to allow access without it.

[ilnjscb]

Originally Posted by KlenTelaris

Yep that can be mitigated easily, by not allowing access without JavaScript enabled. Since 99.99% of users using JS, no point to allow access without it.

This works with 98% of mainstream sites though - and how are you doing active without JS?

[MaDalton]

If I can't access a site without whitelisting it, I shrug and close the site. And never return.