Business U.S. Labor Secretary says most gig workers should be classified as employees

[InfoGuy]

Exclusive: U.S. Labor Secretary says most gig workers should be classified as employees

Labor Secretary Marty Walsh said most gig workers in the United States should be classified as "employees" deserving of related benefits, in what could be a policy shift that is likely to raise costs for companies that depend on contractors

His work at the Department of Labor is expected to have a major impact on U.S. workplace laws and regulations, including vigorous enforcement of occupational safety and health rules, overtime payments and proper administration of employee benefit plans.

The U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics reported in 2017 that 55 million people in the United States were gig workers - or 34% of the workforce - and was projected to rise to 43% in 2020.

Walsh's views on the issue could usher in new rulings from the department, which sets legal guidelines for how employers treat workers. Before his appointment, the Labor Department's Wage and Hour Division (WHD) proposed rescinding a rule adopted in January that would have made it easier to classify workers as independent contractors.

Walsh said the Department of Labor will have conversations with companies that employ gig labor in the coming months to make sure workers have access to consistent wages, sick time, health care and "all of the things that an average employee in America can access."

Reclassifying gig workers / independent contractors as employees began in the US with California Assembly Bill 5 (AB 5). AB 5 has a 3-prong test to determine if a worker is an employee or independent contractor.

AB 5 – Employment Status

Assembly Bill (AB) 5 and AB 2257 replaced the common law test with the ABC test to determine whether a worker is an employee or independent contractor in California. The ABC test must be used for the purpose of the Unemployment Insurance Code beginning January 1, 2020. Under the ABC test, a worker is considered an employee and not an independent contractor, unless the hiring entity meets all three conditions of the ABC test:

(1) The person is free from the control and direction of the hiring entity in connection with the performance of the work, both under the contract for the performance of the work and in fact.
(2) The person performs work that is outside the usual course of the hiring entity’s business.
(3) The person is customarily engaged in an independently established trade, occupation, or business of the same nature as that involved in the work performed.

Note: Workers are considered employees unless proven otherwise. The hiring entity must show that workers meet all conditions of the ABC test in order to classify them as independent contractors, unless there is a statutory exclusion or determination of employment. AB 5 and AB 2257 do not change how out-of-state workers are classified.

This thread is not a discussion about politics. Please only post replies below if they relate to working in the industry - affiliates, performers, production crew, web designers, writers, etc.

[Ferus]

Epic news for a lot of people working in our industry!

[12clicks]

Because the current labor secretary doesn’t know his ass from a hole in the ground

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by InfoGuy

Exclusive: U.S. Labor Secretary says most gig workers should be classified as employees




Reclassifying gig workers / independent contractors as employees began in the US with California Assembly Bill 5 (AB 5). AB 5 has a 3-prong test to determine if a worker is an employee or independent contractor.

AB 5 – Employment Status



This thread is not a discussion about politics. Please only post replies below if they relate to working in the industry - affiliates, performers, production crew, web designers, writers, etc.

What this means is that if you’re classified as an employee, you’ll be fired and whatever value you think you were to a company will be done remotely from India, Brazil, etc. for a fraction of your cost.
Yeay, liberalism

[Ferus]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

What this means is that if you’re classified as an employee, you’ll be fired and whatever value you think you were to a company will be done remotely from India, Brazil, etc. for a fraction of your cost.
Yeay, liberalism

Works well here in the EU. Maybe you should try it? It's not like your current system have proven to work.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by InfoGuy

Exclusive: U.S. Labor Secretary says most gig workers should be classified as employees





Reclassifying gig workers / independent contractors as employees began in the US with California Assembly Bill 5 (AB 5). AB 5 has a 3-prong test to determine if a worker is an employee or independent contractor.

AB 5 – Employment Status



This thread is not a discussion about politics. Please only post replies below if they relate to working in the industry - affiliates, performers, production crew, web designers, writers, etc.

the decided that for porn more than 10 years ago..

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

What this means is that if you’re classified as an employee, you’ll be fired and whatever value you think you were to a company will be done remotely from India, Brazil, etc. for a fraction of your cost.
Yeay, liberalism

they goin' for the payroll taxes then trying to get the employer to pay for bennies.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by Ferus

Works well here in the EU. Maybe you should try it? It's not like your current system have proven to work.

hey don't get pissed BUT if we liked the way euro land does things, we would be here would we?

[Major (Tom)]

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

they goin' for the payroll taxes then trying to get the employer to pay for bennies.

Just ship it overseas. It would save me 100’s of thousands each year

[Grapesoda]

we would be here would we?
- wow lol!!

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by DukeSkywalker

Just ship it overseas. It would save me 100’s of thousands each year

getting into the gigs will open the door to the overseas market. once the gov gets all the gigs 'registered' and organized, the gov can track down all the money, even overseas. in my mind the gov is very interested in getting us all into one data base. hence the vaccine passport, getting all the off the books work, on the books etc..

[Major (Tom)]

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

getting into the gigs will open the door to the overseas market. once the gov gets all the gigs 'registered' and organized, the gov can track down all the money, even overseas. in my mind the gov is very interested in getting us all into one data base. hence the vaccine passport, getting all the off the books work, on the books etc..

Then I’d have to work harder and let people go.

[AmeliaG]

AB5 was a nightmare in California and probably irreparably damaged the independent press and then they carved out a ton of exemptions, including exempting the rideshare and delivery companies it was supposedly introduced to curb the abuses of. Plus, the architect of AB5, who got big bucks from the unions, spent months swearing abusive tweet at independent contractors devastated to lose their livelihoods, telling people their careers were pathetic, and bragging about how she can spend her time drinking wine and buying shoes, just to demonstrate that she really understands working people from her place of privilege.

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by Ferus

Works well here in the EU. Maybe you should try it? It's not like your current system have proven to work.

our system has made us top of the world food chain. why would we want to try some lesser system?

[celandina]

WTF is a gig worker ?

[Brian mike]

Originally Posted by celandina

WTF is a gig worker ?

A gig worker is an independent contractor or a person who is hired for contractual work, instead of a fixed time period in months or in years, so its generally for projects or short time periods. The gig economy is made up of temporary positions, so the contracts or the projects.

[celandina]

Originally Posted by Brian mike

A gig worker is an independent contractor or a person who is hired for contractual work, instead of a fixed time period in months or in years, so its generally for projects or short time periods. The gig economy is made up of temporary positions, so the contracts or the projects.

I know what independent contractor is. Every time I shoot a movie I may have 50 of them but I never heard them to be called "gig workers". Thanks for clarifying it

[Ferus]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

our system has made us top of the world food chain. why would we want to try some lesser system?

.. and if you want to stay there, you should keep evolving. I'm not saying it to bash America, but if you look at most (not all) of the companies in the US that have success, both national and outside your borders, its because they have adopted to the new market. Soon you need to adopt to the new economy as well.

I'm just saying you cant keep doing it the old way, because it used to work - the world is a different place now, compared to when United States was THE economy.

It's like some of you think that ANY change or natural evolution of the market is bad, because "it must be communism".

[ThePornCritic]

I understand the government's desire for gig workers or independent contractors to have benefits.

This law may not be the best idea for this. Universal Health Care takes care of some lacks of benefits. An independent contractor can take care of his or her future by saving when possible.

[AmeliaG]

Originally Posted by ThePornCritic

I understand the government's desire for gig workers or independent contractors to have benefits.

This law may not be the best idea for this. Universal Health Care takes care of some lacks of benefits. An independent contractor can take care of his or her future by saving when possible.

100% this. All Americans should have easy access to healthcare not attached to their career.

[AmeliaG]

Originally Posted by Ferus

.. and if you want to stay there, you should keep evolving. I'm not saying it to bash America, but if you look at most (not all) of the companies in the US that have success, both national and outside your borders, its because they have adopted to the new market. Soon you need to adopt to the new economy as well.

I'm just saying you cant keep doing it the old way, because it used to work - the world is a different place now, compared to when United States was THE economy.

It's like some of you think that ANY change or natural evolution of the market is bad, because "it must be communism".

Are you saying adapt or die in general and not every change is communism or are you saying fuck self-employed people?

[Ferus]

Originally Posted by ThePornCritic

I understand the government's desire for gig workers or independent contractors to have benefits.

This law may not be the best idea for this. Universal Health Care takes care of some lacks of benefits. An independent contractor can take care of his or her future by saving when possible.

The difference is as I see it:
- Universal Health Care is paid by the tax-payer
- Proposed change makes those that benefit/profit from the gig workers(and ultimately their customers) effort pick up the bill instead.

Result: Some of it will (usually)lead to people being offered full-time jobs instead of gigs because its cheaper. If you follow the history of the development in the job-market in Europe, that is how the development is heading; Lower income, higher benefits, less tax.

The hope is that the benefits more often would be administered centrally as it is many places in Europe, so there end up being better competition between the service-providers (hospitals) resulting in cheaper prices - as proven in Europe (both EU and outside of EU)

Look at what healthcare in western europe cost, compared with the US. The income-level is 20-30% lower but the healthcare budget is almost 600% cheaper for a HIGHER level of service.

I'm not saying one or the other is better, because people want different things. But I dont mind paying the worlds highest tax (Denmark) because it gives be great healthcare, great security and nice neighbors.

I spend almost two years traveling around Europe to find a better place to live, but ended up with a apartment in Switzerland and kept our Farm in Denmark where we are building a new house, because the biggest problem here in Denmark is a few punks speeding to much on the highway.

Problem: For the above to work, the two most important things are:
1 - Support from the voters - not just one side (Can be done in the US)
2 - Low level of corruption (I doubt that will happen in the US, because the country is so divided)

So there are a solution and a path, but people dont want the kool-aid

[InfoGuy]

Many people choose to be gig workers because it gives them flexibility to work around their own schedules. Some gig workers, such as students or housewives, are part time and only work 10-20 hours a week. Other gig workers work a combined 40 hours a week with multiple companies. Should companies provide equal benefits to part time gig workers with 10 hours a week compared to full time workers? Which company should provide and pay for healthcare or unemployment benefits for someone who works 10 hours a week for multiple companies? If a company hires a worker for a small project for a period of just a few days, should that company be responsible for paying for unemployment benefits if that person can't find additional work afterwards?

[pornlaw]

Originally Posted by Ferus

Works well here in the EU. Maybe you should try it? It's not like your current system have proven to work.

As EU languishes in lockdowns and a third wave -- because of socialized medicine. While the US and UK - who entered into partnerships with the big pharma and own the IP - not just to buy vaccines at the lowest price possible - is opening up again...

The healthcare system in the EU is a joke. Yes you wont go bankrupt but you'll probably die before you get an appointment (or a vaccine).

[Ferus]

Originally Posted by pornlaw

As EU languishes in lockdowns and a third wave -- because of socialized medicine. While the US and UK - who entered into partnerships with the big pharma and own the IP - not just to buy vaccines at the lowest price possible - is opening up again...

The healthcare system in the EU is a joke. Yes you wont go bankrupt but you'll probably die before you get an appointment (or a vaccine).

I dont know where you get your information, but they are not accurate. Educate yourself and try again if you want a response from me. If you are just trolling your agenda, then go ahead-- I dont care, it's not me dying.

[pornlaw]

Originally Posted by Ferus

I dont know where you get your information, but they are not accurate. Educate yourself and try again if you want a response from me. If you are just trolling your agenda, then go ahead-- I dont care, it's not me dying.

I live in Europe and I lived in the United States and have multiple health issues. So I’ve experienced both systems. And not from an advantage point of having the flu or some other transient issue, but rather from a position of dealing with multiple chronic health issues. Can you say the same ?

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by Ferus

.. and if you want to stay there, you should keep evolving. I'm not saying it to bash America, but if you look at most (not all) of the companies in the US that have success, both national and outside your borders, its because they have adopted to the new market. Soon you need to adopt to the new economy as well.

I'm just saying you cant keep doing it the old way, because it used to work - the world is a different place now, compared to when United States was THE economy.

It's like some of you think that ANY change or natural evolution of the market is bad, because "it must be communism".

amongst the intelligent we understand that gig workers ARE the natural evolution of the market, what do they understand amongst YOUR kind?

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by pornlaw

I live in Europe and I lived in the United States and have multiple health issues. So I’ve experienced both systems. And not from an advantage point of having the flu or some other transient issue, but rather from a position of dealing with multiple chronic health issues. Can you say the same ?

no one who's ever needed lifesaving medical care outside of the US would EVER choose non-US healthcare.
The difference is fucking night and day (life or death)

[fastball]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

no one who's ever needed lifesaving medical care outside of the US would EVER choose non-US healthcare.
The difference is fucking night and day (life or death)

How, exactly, would you know, son?

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by fastball

How, exactly, would you know, son?

still struggling to get my attention?


Who is this clown, anyone know?

[fastball]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

still struggling to get my attention?


Who is this clown, anyone know?

I have it.

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by fastball

I have it.

there you go!

now run in the other room and tell your mom you're winning on GFY. She'll be proud of her little man.

[fastball]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

there you go!

now run in the other room and tell your mom you're winning on GFY. She'll be proud of her little man.

Yes she would.

[jigg]

Originally Posted by fastball

How, exactly, would you know, son?

if it's so amazing why are Germans importing cheap slave labor from Eastern Europe to shore up costs? And why Norwegians and Danish traveling to Hungary, Czech republic, Bulgaria and Turkey for healthcare?

[fastball]

Originally Posted by jigg

if it's so amazing why are Germans importing cheap slave labor from Eastern Europe to shore up costs? And why Norwegians and Danish traveling to Hungary, Czech republic, Bulgaria and Turkey for healthcare?

Are you saying Danes are traveling to Hungary, Bulgaria, Czech and Turkey for healthcare? My in laws are Danes and their health care is exceptional. That doesn't sound right.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by pornlaw

As EU languishes in lockdowns and a third wave -- because of socialized medicine. While the US and UK - who entered into partnerships with the big pharma and own the IP - not just to buy vaccines at the lowest price possible - is opening up again...

The healthcare system in the EU is a joke. Yes you wont go bankrupt but you'll probably die before you get an appointment (or a vaccine).

really sounds like you're bragging about how the USA has done in regards to this pandemic.. is this true?

[fastball]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

really sounds like you're bragging about how the USA has done in regards to this pandemic.. is this true?

Michael does nothing but bitch and complain about Europe, but that is where he lives now. Could it because the cost of health care drove him out of the United States?

[klinton]

Originally Posted by pornlaw

The healthcare system in the EU is a joke. Yes you wont go bankrupt but you'll probably die before you get an appointment (or a vaccine).

you are right, but how US system is better?
overpaying 3-6 times for healthcare?

in EU you also have (many) private hospitals that have the same, if not better quality like US, and charge few times less.