Forget Acacia.... Xpays is coming. - Page 5 - GoFuckYourself.com

D-Money · 10-15-2004, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by HomeTown_Hero
enough of this patent shit already

I agree

World premiere exclusive

http://www.theplayersball.com/offthahook.wmv

almost done uploading.

XPays · 10-15-2004, 02:23 AM

202

XPays Principals Awarded U.S. Patent For Internet Based Affiliate Pooling

San Francisco, October 14, 2004 -- XPays Inc. (www.XPays.com) is
pleased to announce that the United States Patent & Trademark Office
has issued U.S. Patent No 6,804,660, covering XPays' innovative
affiliate pooling technology which enables Virtual Affiliate?
advertising on the Internet. XPays principals Evan Horowitz and
Michael Landau have previously assigned their invention to their
sister company Essociate Inc. (www.Essociate.com).

"The originality of our affiliate pooling technology is confirmed by
the issuance of our first patent, and the continued growth of our
business validates the strength of the model," said Horowitz, CEO and
co-founder of XPays and Essociate. "This patent is indicative of the
foresight and innovation necessary to develop a unique affiliate
advertising network within a complex and dynamic industry. After our
initial launch in 1998, XPays endeavored to diversify its affiliate
program in mid-1999 and soon after Affiliate Pooling became the core of the XPays system."

"Considering our tremendous respect for intellectual property rights,
it is very gratifying to receive this type of acknowledgemnt from the
Patent and Trademark Office," added Landau, CTO and co-founder of both
companies.

XPays is an industry leader in the competitive performance-based
Internet advertising market, bringing together a variety of online
merchants and affiliates using the patented Affiliate Pooling model.
XPays currently partners with more than 12,000 affiliates, offering a
variety of merchants' goods and services to promote. By providing an
evolving set of tools for affiliates and merchants to combine their
resources via the XPays model, merchants have increased their brand
awareness and affiliates have profited from a stable and competitive
revenue source.

More information on U.S. Patent 6,804,660 is located at
<http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...tnumber=6804660> or a
PDF may be downloaded from
<http://essociate.com/patents/US6804660.pdf>.

Theo · 10-15-2004, 02:23 AM

Yes, I didn't say prior. In that case it would be nonsense to patent it. Any more patents pending? Dumb Greeks... we should had patented democracy 25 centuries ago ;-)

XPays · 10-15-2004, 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Soul_Rebel
Yes, I didn't say prior. In that case it would be nonsense to patent it. Any more patents pending? Dumb Greeks... we should had patented democracy 25 centuries ago ;-)

Yes we have more pending. None of them are bullshit patents in my professional opinion.

emthree · 10-15-2004, 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by HomeTown_Hero
This one will get struck down just like ACACIA

shut your fucking mouth, and read.

sexeducation - start a new thread. You fucked up the feeling to this thread for me, 3Pages then bam pedo alert. I'm finally putting you on the ignore list tonight, where you belong.

Congrads XPAYS, I've been waiting for something like this to come along. My info is all over the net with these affiliate programs, most of which I no longer remember. It's not a good feeling at all.

notjoe · 10-15-2004, 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by XPays
Yes we have more pending. None of them are bullshit patents in my professional opinion.

And none of the patents Acacia holds are bullshit in their professional opinion...

slavdogg · 10-15-2004, 04:49 AM

Evan and Xpays, congrads on the patent !

ok i didnt read anything other than the first and last page
but from what i understood about the patent and pooling

How is that different that what cj.com linkshare, befree, and other companies are doing ??

goBigtime · 10-15-2004, 05:02 AM

I can't bite my tongue anymore.

You're trolling for Congratulations??

For what? Exploiting the USPTO patent system and patenting an idea that was already being used publicly by several companies for a considerable amount of time before you filed??

Fuck that.

I agree, this isn't like Acacia in the sense that Acacia has a very broad patent and has tried to apply it to every situation possible.

But get real, anyone who was anyone in this industry was keeping tabs on new technology in the mainstream.

When Commission Junction came out with their business model I remember a lot of people took note.... let alone the others that came before them (that CJ may have got their idea from and improved on).

What year did you file?

What year did CJ launch?

Maybe you had the idea in your head or on paper for years before anyone put it to use - I can totally relate to that myself. I have tons of ideas and I've watched countless times as people have brought them to market before me because I was too busy working on other things. You snooze, you lose.

IMO, Bottom line is you were beat to market with the general idea (wheather you knew it or not), filed for the patent & because our software patent system is so fucked up and the reviewers not qualified to review or issue these patents - the patent was awarded anyway.

Do you really think your patent is different enough from the companies that were operating long before you filed doing very close to what your patent covers?

I really hate to be a hater like this.. but I swear software patents are going to be one of the things that ruin this country in the end.

- All of this is in my personal opinion of course. There is no way of my knowing if Xpays knew about Commission Junction or anyone else before they filed.

dudus · 10-15-2004, 05:20 AM

Not sure why anyone gives a crap. Its a US patent only - register a business offshore and host it offshore and the patent is totally avoided.

vicki · 10-15-2004, 05:48 AM

its an affiliate clearinghouse

(one stop shopping)

Taboo · 10-15-2004, 06:23 AM

I'm not against innovation or anti-patent, but in the "wrong hands" they are weapons that will destroy commerce as we know it. Time will tell.

Rest In Peace: Internet
"Death by Patent"

FightThisPatent · 10-15-2004, 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by foolio

I think the thing that sits the best with me is the support from FightThisPatent. To me that goes a very long way.

Just wanted to clarify... i dont' "support" the patent..... people who "support" the patent are the patent holders and their business, and licensees.

what i don't "support", is where people are jumping to quick conclusions without any facts, so that's why i stepped into help people understand what the patent is about and who it affects (my comments are on page 3 of the thread).

Doing some quick research, there doesn't appear to be any obvious prior art.

There was one post that mentioned some mainstream programs, and each one would have to be investigated (which I am sure that Evan and Michael are doing).

If there is prior art out there, then their patent will fall down. The mainstream marketing firms may not be prior art, but they may have had a business plan that evolved into an "affiliate marketing pool".... which they might have a defense.

Only those early companies that evolved into the patent would be able to claim a prior inventor type status that exempts them from the patent..... all the other companies that started new with the idea of the affiliate pool, would have to defend themselves against the patent, which means spending money to get an attorney to evaulate if the specific way that they do business, matches what is described in the patent.

After running FightThePatent.com for over a year now, I have become somewhat anti-patent in my viewpoint, especially in dealing with software and technology patents.

The patent system has not evolved to handle the modern times, and there should be more scrutiny on the "novelty" and "nonobvisiousness" of a patent. The 3,000+ patent examiners are spreadout over many scientific disciplines. More and more patent applications are focused on software/tech, that reform and additional resources are needed.... but that's still a long way.

So in the mean time, the law does grant patent holders of software, processes, and business methods, the legal right to enforce their patents.

We have seen a perfect instance of "patent abuse" with Acacia, who has broadly interpretted (and basically made up) what they want their patent to say... this is why the members in the Defense Group are fighting them, and it's the reason why i became involved.

I don't smell "patent abuse" here. There are probably a handful of companies in the adult biz that might do what the patent says, and those companies are doing very well, so they have the financial resources to come to the answer.

Where things might start to raise an eyebrow, is if the targeted company blows off Xpays, and then Xpays decides to target the sponsor programs who participate in the system as "contributory infringers".

Fight the Tort Reform!

FightThisPatent · 10-15-2004, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dudus
Not sure why anyone gives a crap. Its a US patent only - register a business offshore and host it offshore and the patent is totally avoided.

and don't forget to do your billing offshore as well, and not have any US assets. Anything that connects you back to the US can be won by a default judgement when you don't show up in court.

Fight the No Show!

goBigtime · 10-15-2004, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by FightThisPatent

There was one post that mentioned some mainstream programs, and each one would have to be investigated (which I am sure that Evan and Michael are doing).

If there is prior art out there, then their patent will fall down. The mainstream marketing firms may not be prior art, but they may have had a business plan that evolved into an "affiliate marketing pool".... which they might have a defense.

Even you said (something like) prior use doesn't always = prior art. Some companies don't bother with patents.. they just take the idea to market and keep its internal process close to their chest.

Anyway, I'm not trying to flame Xpays, Evan, or Michael directly here... I haven't really had a chance to vent much about how I feel about software patents.

I'm just generally pissed off about what software patents are doing and tryingt o do to computing and the net... and even though they have been around for a few years now, the ill effects are really just beginning.

FightThisPatent · 10-15-2004, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by goBigtime
Even you said (something like) prior use doesn't always = prior art.

I wrote about that comment... If a company was doing the affiliate pooling idea, in commerce, was an actual product, etc between may 1998 and May 1999, then they would be excempt from the patent, since they would be covered under "prior use".

If a company was doing the affiliate pooling idea prior to May 1998, then it would be prior art.

If a company had a business plan that documented the evolution of the biz into what the patent described, and it was before May 1998, then it's not prior art, but could be argued as a "prior inventor" since it was documented privately (ie. not published) about the future.

I agree with you on your sentiments about patents. Software and tech patents are stifling innovation and businesses, and most would fail the "novel" and "nonobviousness" tests if presented to the internet/tech/software community.

Patent Reform is needed, and it's moving slowly. Until then, companies have to deal with bogus patents, will have to deal with legit patents, and will have to make the "business decisions" to operate in this minefield.

This is why i had proposed the non-profit Fight The Patent Foundation, to specifically target bad patents by filing directly with the USPTO.. as a pre-emptive measure to avoid businesses, millions of dollars in legal and bogus licensing fees.....

I contacted many large mainstream companies, and while they liked the idea, they felt they could handle things on their own. This means that big business has the resources to pay the "nuisance fee" of a patent license, whereas middle to smaller companies are ripe for the picking.

As Acacia's marketing strategy has shown price, price the license cheaper then it would cost to get an opinion paper or hire many hours of billable attorney time.

It's an abuse of both patent and civil law, but my one year conclusion, is businesses will deal with things on their own, and in the rare occassions like the current members of the Defense Group, to band together..... but what we have also seen is the lack of support from companies that are also affected by Acacia, not stepping in to help financially, because they are letting others do the work.

It's exactly the same as those that pledge money for Public Television fundraisers, and those that watch PBS and never send in a dime.

Fight the Couch Potatoes!

malakajoe · 10-15-2004, 07:50 AM

Probably already asked and maybe already talked about...but isn't this what cj.com is? Haven't they been around for a long time?

Everyone says Dollars.com..but cj.com is pretty much the same thing, IMO.

malakajoe · 10-15-2004, 08:25 AM

Ok..got off my lazy ass and actually read the thing..especially page 19 as noted. It explains it well there.

I see nothing wrong with this patent. Has similiarities to other things out their, but unique differences.

Fletch XXX · 10-15-2004, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by D-Money
People like Speakthetruth

you know Speakthetruth is BRAD SHAW right?

lol

Far-L · 10-15-2004, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by HomeTown_Hero
This one will get struck down just like ACACIA

Please quit with the Acacia comparisons. There are none.

Actually if the defendants against Acacia get out on Non Infringement then that means the patent would still stand and everyone that has licensed thinking they were playing it safe and leaving us to pay for "Breaking" the patent would be still stuck with their license...

Drawing any comparisons between this and Acacia is insulting to all the people that have actually fought or donated against the fight with Acacia.

pornstar2pac · 10-15-2004, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fletch XXX
you know Speakthetruth is BRAD SHAW right?

lol

It's Lensman

OzMan · 10-15-2004, 09:38 AM

sig spot for sale, asking low to medium six figures serious offers only

webair · 10-15-2004, 09:39 AM

I know Evan I don't think he would pursue this the way that Acacia did if his patent allowed. Congrads on the patent guys, it is very specific in regards to your specific design. I don't think any existing affiliate programs offer specifically what they are offering in one complete package anyhow. Read the PDF.

Rinaldo · 10-15-2004, 09:42 AM

weeeeeeeeeee

XPays · 10-15-2004, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by malakajoe
Ok..got off my lazy ass and actually read the thing..especially page 19 as noted. It explains it well there.

I see nothing wrong with this patent. Has similiarities to other things out their, but unique differences.

XPays · 10-15-2004, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fletch XXX
you know Speakthetruth is BRAD SHAW right?

lol

so we can call him "BStheTruth" instead

XPays · 10-15-2004, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Far-L

Drawing any comparisons between this and Acacia is insulting to all the people that have actually fought or donated against the fight with Acacia.

Undoubtedly

Halcyon · 10-15-2004, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FightThisPatent
If you were doing business (and had documentation), and someone after you got a patent that describes what you do or what your business was going to evolve/grow into, you would not have to pay them patent royalties, since you would be a prior inventor.

Most people don't publish their business, they innovate and make money... you may have business plans that talk about growing beyond the affiliate program... while documenation like a business plan that could describe the "virtual affilaite" system is NOT prior art, it can be documentation to prove the company as a "prior inventor".

Burden of proof is on the company to prove that it was documented.. but that's usually the way small companies get out from a patent that covers what they do that was issued after them.

I know of a company that has a business plan from 20 years ago that talks about selling digital audio/video electronically.. this company's business plan (with the dust blown off), would be excempt from Acacia, but they would not be prior art to knock out the patent, because it was not published.

Patent Law has alot of angles to it, and I don't give the complexity of the issue justice by oversimplifying it, but atleast to convey what i have learned about this very tricky subject in the last year.

When patents popup, years after they were issued, like Acacia, they are refered as "submarine patents".. where they sit quiet, waiting for the world to use the "invention", and then spring up. Unisys did this with their enforcement of the GIF image file format a few years before the patent expired.... when everyone was using GIF.

Lots of good stuff form Brandon in this thread!

That post was a flash of fucking brilliance and wins the daily FoFB Award. The author of this post has earned $20 from FLASHCA$H and our eternal gratitude for making time spent on the boards more worth while. THANK YOU!

$ deposited via Flashcash account to ePassporte.
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Far-L · 10-15-2004, 12:25 PM

Brandon is a credit to the human race. No doubt about it. (... and his wife is hot and seemed really cool as well based on my brief introduction...)

FightThisPatent · 10-15-2004, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Far-L
... his wife is hot and seemed really cool as well based on my brief introduction...)

she was amused by the brief introduction to your bare ass as you skinny-dived into gary's pool.

Fight the Crack!

XPays · 10-15-2004, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FightThisPatent
she was amused by the brief introduction to your bare ass as you skinny-dived into gary's pool.

Fight the Crack!

it's not an officially sanctioned industry party until at least 4 homegrown video people are naked in a jacuzzi LOL

Far-L · 10-15-2004, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by XPays
it's not an officially sanctioned industry party until at least 4 homegrown video people are naked in a jacuzzi LOL

I knew that party was rocking when a stunningly beautiful woman got in naked before I did...

Far-L · 10-15-2004, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FightThisPatent
she was amused by the brief introduction to your bare ass as you skinny-dived into gary's pool.

Fight the Crack!

I guess I feel better if women are laughing at my buttocks rather than crying...

(... I hope she was duly impressed by my striptease and incredibly agile full monty reveal as I leaped with acrobatic grace from the hot tub to the pool... been working on that move for months...)

XPays · 10-15-2004, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Far-L
I knew that party was rocking when a stunningly beautiful woman got in naked before I did...

"This thread is useless without pics"

GonePhishing · 10-15-2004, 02:05 PM

Does ccbill's setup fall in this at all?

candyflip · 02-13-2015, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XPays

Yes we have more pending. None of them are bullshit patents in my professional opinion.

Turns out this one was.

JFK · 02-13-2015, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by candyflip

Turns out this one was.

So it did

10-15-2004, 02:23 AM	#201
smack Push Porn Like Weight. Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Inside .NET Posts: 10,652	200 __________________ Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war.

10-15-2004, 02:23 AM	#203
XPays Team Player Join Date: May 2004 Location: Inside the most accurately counting and reporting affiliate system in the world at XPays.com Posts: 13,002	202 XPays Principals Awarded U.S. Patent For Internet Based Affiliate Pooling San Francisco, October 14, 2004 -- XPays Inc. (www.XPays.com) is pleased to announce that the United States Patent & Trademark Office has issued U.S. Patent No 6,804,660, covering XPays' innovative affiliate pooling technology which enables Virtual Affiliate? advertising on the Internet. XPays principals Evan Horowitz and Michael Landau have previously assigned their invention to their sister company Essociate Inc. (www.Essociate.com). "The originality of our affiliate pooling technology is confirmed by the issuance of our first patent, and the continued growth of our business validates the strength of the model," said Horowitz, CEO and co-founder of XPays and Essociate. "This patent is indicative of the foresight and innovation necessary to develop a unique affiliate advertising network within a complex and dynamic industry. After our initial launch in 1998, XPays endeavored to diversify its affiliate program in mid-1999 and soon after Affiliate Pooling became the core of the XPays system." "Considering our tremendous respect for intellectual property rights, it is very gratifying to receive this type of acknowledgemnt from the Patent and Trademark Office," added Landau, CTO and co-founder of both companies. XPays is an industry leader in the competitive performance-based Internet advertising market, bringing together a variety of online merchants and affiliates using the patented Affiliate Pooling model. XPays currently partners with more than 12,000 affiliates, offering a variety of merchants' goods and services to promote. By providing an evolving set of tools for affiliates and merchants to combine their resources via the XPays model, merchants have increased their brand awareness and affiliates have profited from a stable and competitive revenue source. More information on U.S. Patent 6,804,660 is located at <http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...tnumber=6804660> or a PDF may be downloaded from <http://essociate.com/patents/US6804660.pdf>. __________________ InterNext Expo Domain Auction Live Now thru Feb 5 HuntingMoon GFY Domains Marketplace is LIVE XPays always pays! Top Site: * RealJasmine.com * + HotelHeiress® with The Paris Hilton Sex Video Insert the HotelHeiress® HD FEED into your members areas XPin.com Opening for Pin Partners Soonish Mainstream Offers For Emailers and DomainersNONADULT.COM Like Us!

10-15-2004, 05:02 AM	#209
goBigtime Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 7,761	I can't bite my tongue anymore. You're trolling for *Congratulations??* For what? Exploiting the USPTO patent system and patenting an idea that was already being used publicly by several companies for a considerable amount of time before you filed?? Fuck that. I agree, this isn't like Acacia in the sense that Acacia has a very broad patent and has tried to apply it to every situation possible. But get real, anyone who was anyone in this industry was keeping tabs on new technology in the mainstream. When Commission Junction came out with their business model I remember a lot of people took note.... let alone the others that came before them (that CJ may have got their idea from and improved on). What year did you file? What year did CJ launch? Maybe you had the idea in your head or on paper for years before anyone put it to use - I can totally relate to that myself. I have tons of ideas and I've watched countless times as people have brought them to market before me because I was too busy working on other things. You snooze, you lose. IMO, Bottom line is you were beat to market with the general idea (wheather you knew it or not), filed for the patent & because our software patent system is so fucked up and the reviewers not qualified to review or issue these patents - the patent was awarded anyway. Do you really think your patent is different enough from the companies that were operating long before you filed doing very close to what your patent covers? I really hate to be a hater like this.. but I swear software patents are going to be one of the things that ruin this country in the end. - All of this is in my personal opinion of course. There is no way of my knowing if Xpays knew about Commission Junction or anyone else before they filed. Last edited by goBigtime; 10-15-2004 at 05:06 AM..

10-15-2004, 05:48 AM	#211
vicki Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Deep in the heart o' Texas Posts: 1,478	its an affiliate clearinghouse (one stop shopping) __________________ If at first you do succeed - try to hide your astonishment. HR merchant accounts from 3.45% solid biz since 98 victoriakozub AT gmail.com skype: victoria.kozub \| ICQ: 74296746

10-15-2004, 07:50 AM	#217
malakajoe Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Sacramento Posts: 1,751	Probably already asked and maybe already talked about...but isn't this what cj.com is? Haven't they been around for a long time? Everyone says Dollars.com..but cj.com is pretty much the same thing, IMO. __________________ Selfpleasure.com for sale on auction. Closes on Tuesday March 11th at 9pm PST!!!! Dirty enough to be good, but clean enough for everyone! ------------------------------------------------------------------ Moral Police - First graduating class coming soon! - Forcing our values across the internet

10-15-2004, 02:23 AM	#204
Theo HAL 9000 Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 34,515	Yes, I didn't say prior. In that case it would be nonsense to patent it. Any more patents pending? Dumb Greeks... we should had patented democracy 25 centuries ago ;-)

10-15-2004, 04:49 AM	#208
slavdogg Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 3,570	Evan and Xpays, congrads on the patent ! ok i didnt read anything other than the first and last page but from what i understood about the patent and pooling How is that different that what cj.com linkshare, befree, and other companies are doing ??

10-15-2004, 05:20 AM	#210
dudus Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: UK Posts: 175	Not sure why anyone gives a crap. Its a US patent only - register a business offshore and host it offshore and the patent is totally avoided.

10-15-2004, 06:23 AM	#212
Taboo Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: I'd rather be networking than not working. Posts: 3,700	I'm not against innovation or anti-patent, but in the "wrong hands" they are weapons that will destroy commerce as we know it. Time will tell. Rest In Peace: Internet "Death by Patent"

10-15-2004, 08:25 AM	#218
malakajoe Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Sacramento Posts: 1,751	Ok..got off my lazy ass and actually read the thing..especially page 19 as noted. It explains it well there. I see nothing wrong with this patent. Has similiarities to other things out their, but unique differences. __________________ Selfpleasure.com for sale on auction. Closes on Tuesday March 11th at 9pm PST!!!! Dirty enough to be good, but clean enough for everyone! ------------------------------------------------------------------ Moral Police - First graduating class coming soon! - Forcing our values across the internet

10-15-2004, 09:38 AM	#222
OzMan Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Los Begas Posts: 9,162	sig spot for sale, asking low to medium six figures serious offers only __________________

10-15-2004, 09:39 AM	#223
webair Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: NYC, NY Posts: 8,531	I know Evan I don't think he would pursue this the way that Acacia did if his patent allowed. Congrads on the patent guys, it is very specific in regards to your specific design. I don't think any existing affiliate programs offer specifically what they are offering in one complete package anyhow. Read the PDF. __________________ ~ Webair Dedicated Cloud Servers™ ~ WEBAIR VSYS™ Virtual Hosting Platform ~ Superior CDN Network ~ ~ Managed Dedicated hosting Specialists ~ DISCOUNT DOMAIN NAMES! ~ WEBAIR FUSION IO MANAGED CLOUD SERVERS! ~ *ICQ:* 243116321 - *TWITTER* - @WEBAIRINC - E-Mail: [email protected]

10-15-2004, 09:42 AM	#224
Rinaldo Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: South Florida Posts: 5,086	weeeeeeeeeee

10-15-2004, 12:25 PM	#229
Far-L Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 6,065	Brandon is a credit to the human race. No doubt about it. (... and his wife is hot and seemed really cool as well based on my brief introduction...) __________________ HomegrownCash.com, the affiliate program of Homegrown Video - The Largest Collection of Amateur XXX - Est. 1982. Contact - Email: farrell AT homegrownvideo D com Skype: hgfarl Newsweek Magazine - "Homegrown Video, the longest running series in the history of porn."

10-15-2004, 02:05 PM	#235
GonePhishing Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Blah Posts: 2,474	Does ccbill's setup fall in this at all? __________________ If Biff Fucks My Mom... I Might Never Be Born...