Why hasnt the Positive Side to 2257 been discussed? - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

kernelpanic · 06-11-2005, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

Even without 2257 all the surfer has to do is check the whois and usually the address is listed.

But true that is one HUGE downside. The only issue i see so far that puts a small percentage of models at some risk.

Whois can be santized for free, or $8 (private reg.) if you don't want to break the registration agreement.

2257 is unavoidable, and will put models at risk.

Alex · 06-11-2005, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chase

If the regs were stated that was the rule from the effective date forward, I would agree...but going back over the last ten years of work is a daunting task.

But how would you prove wheater you put up a page before or after to the DOJ?

riddler · 06-11-2005, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kernelpanic

Right, because its not like thats personal information or anything.

Besides, these regulations permit a simple clerical error to send someone to jail. That is not right. Jail is for criminals, not people who may have a few errors among thousands of entries.

Do you not do taxes? One fuck up on taxes can land you in a world of shit, NO FUCKING DIFFERENCE.

chase · 06-11-2005, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

Even without 2257 all the surfer has to do is check the whois and usually the address is listed.

But true that is one HUGE downside. The only issue i see so far that puts a small percentage of models at some risk.

I don't know about that, I don't have my address in my whois info just for that reason. I would hope that most girls are net savvy enough to recognize that danger when they buy a domain to run their site on, but I am sure there are some who aren't.

Alex · 06-11-2005, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kernelpanic

Whois can be santized for free, or $8 (private reg.) if you don't want to break the registration agreement.

2257 is unavoidable, and will put models at risk.

Not all models. Only those that are webmasters too and keep the 2257 at thier house.

But yes, this is a large downside. But then again, you wouldnt care about model's safety. Most of the people bitching about 2257 are worried about themselves.

riddler · 06-11-2005, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

But how would you prove wheater you put up a page before or after to the DOJ?

Everything on digital media is time stamped, Isnt to hard to prove.

GatorB · 06-11-2005, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

The only moron in this thread is you. You honestly think there is some secret agenda by the government to fuck with us? Come on?

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...w/6_hi.html?rp

riddler · 06-11-2005, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GatorB

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...w/6_hi.html?rp

Very good, PBS, Media all fear spreading bullshit.

Alex · 06-11-2005, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chase

I don't know about that, I don't have my address in my whois info just for that reason. I would hope that most girls are net savvy enough to recognize that danger when they buy a domain to run their site on, but I am sure there are some who aren't.

Shit, i know. I see your point, and i cant think of anything to say but you are on your own which sucks. ANd i do care for models/webmasters because there are sick people out there.

Alex · 06-11-2005, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by riddler

Everything on digital media is time stamped, Isnt to hard to prove.

ALright, but look.

If you are going to have to start collecting data to prove when you created this content, and have to deal with explaining to the DOJ, you might as well become compliant.

riddler · 06-11-2005, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

Shit, i know. I see your point, and i cant think of anything to say but you are on your own which sucks. ANd i do care for models/webmasters because there are sick people out there.

I honestly dont care if there is sick people out there or not, It is really no different than working at a late night strip club, A creep can follow you home just as easy as he can get your info from some stupid 2257..

GatorB · 06-11-2005, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

Even without 2257 all the surfer has to do is check the whois and usually the address is listed.

surfers are nortoriously retarded. I bet 99.9% don't know what a whois is.

Alex · 06-11-2005, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GatorB

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...w/6_hi.html?rp

News organizations profit on conspiracy and secret government agendas.

Sorry but i dont believe that this is all part of a plan to end porn.

chase · 06-11-2005, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

But how would you prove wheater you put up a page before or after to the DOJ?

I'm not sure I follow you...so let me restate my piece so I know at least one of us is up to speed here, lol....

If all I had to do as a webmaster was obtain the documents and keep the required records for the sites/galleries I put up from the 23rd on, it wouldn't be THAt bad. But having to go back over all the sites and galleries I have listed in the past decade, track down docs or pull the sites/galleries, and get the required documents in order...well, to put it simply, what a fucking pain in the ass!

Are you saying that there is no way for the DOJ to tell what the date was and that's why they go back ten years? If so, then, the same is true for a decade ago, right?

riddler · 06-11-2005, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

ALright, but look.

If you are going to have to start collecting data to prove when you created this content, and have to deal with explaining to the DOJ, you might as well become compliant.

Not sure what you mean, But i seriously doubt alot of people have any porn still on the web from 10 years ago, Thats a long fucking time and a long fucking jump in technology advances and harddrives etc..

kernelpanic · 06-11-2005, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by riddler

Do you not do taxes? One fuck up on taxes can land you in a world of shit, NO FUCKING DIFFERENCE.

Yes, I do do taxes.

However, to stay legal with your taxes is much simpler, and precedent has shown that people who make honest errors will end up losing deductions, or paying fines/penalties. One of the big problems with 2257 is that we haven't seen how they plan to enforce it, and if they'll seek jail time.

If you think its no big deal, go ahead, be noncompliant after the 23rd and make yourself a target.

Alex · 06-11-2005, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GatorB

surfers are nortoriously retarded. I bet 99.9% don't know what a whois is.

I know. But tell me how many people will click on a 2257 link at the bottom of the page, or know what to do with it? Or actually visit the location?

Alex · 06-11-2005, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chase

I'm not sure I follow you...so let me restate my piece so I know at least one of us is up to speed here, lol....

If all I had to do as a webmaster was obtain the documents and keep the required records for the sites/galleries I put up from the 23rd on, it wouldn't be THAt bad. But having to go back over all the sites and galleries I have listed in the past decade, track down docs or pull the sites/galleries, and get the required documents in order...well, to put it simply, what a fucking pain in the ass!

Are you saying that there is no way for the DOJ to tell what the date was and that's why they go back ten years? If so, then, the same is true for a decade ago, right?

Yea i totally fucked up my wording on that.

I mean how would you prove you put the gallery online before or after June 23.

it turns to he-said she-said again.

riddler · 06-11-2005, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kernelpanic

Yes, I do do taxes.

However, to stay legal with your taxes is much simpler, and precedent has shown that people who make honest errors will end up losing deductions, or paying fines/penalties. One of the big problems with 2257 is that we haven't seen how they plan to enforce it, and if they'll seek jail time.

If you think its no big deal, go ahead, be noncompliant after the 23rd and make yourself a target.

Why would i go non compliant? I aint a fucking retard that cant keep book keeping in a professional manner.

GatorB · 06-11-2005, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GatorB

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...w/6_hi.html?rp

Also watch this part about 2 minutes in.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...view/5_hi.html

Alex · 06-11-2005, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kernelpanic

Yes, I do do taxes.

However, to stay legal with your taxes is much simpler, and precedent has shown that people who make honest errors will end up losing deductions, or paying fines/penalties. One of the big problems with 2257 is that we haven't seen how they plan to enforce it, and if they'll seek jail time.

If you think its no big deal, go ahead, be noncompliant after the 23rd and make yourself a target.

You and i know that there is a difference between being non-compliant and being compliant with a clerical error that can be fixed.

chase · 06-11-2005, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by riddler

I honestly dont care if there is sick people out there or not, It is really no different than working at a late night strip club, A creep can follow you home just as easy as he can get your info from some stupid 2257..

Well, I'm not a stripper...I'm just a mom who runs a small site so I can be the one raising my kids, instead of some day care worker.

I chose not to put myself in that situation, (not that any clubs take chubby girls, lol, but whatever), and when I began doing this, I could cloak my identity better. Suddenly that safety net has been ripped away.

Yes, I agree, if someone was very determined, they could have found me before. But now it's so much easier that it will take a less insane person to accomplish it.

Trixie Racer · 06-11-2005, 01:28 PM

I value my privacy and do not want stalkers having a much easier time finding my driver's license number, phone number, or home address. The 2257 rules is one of the reasons why I won't shoot for anyone else.

riddler · 06-11-2005, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chase

Well, I'm not a stripper...I'm just a mom who runs a small site so I can be the one raising my kids, instead of some day care worker.

I chose not to put myself in that situation, (not that any clubs take chubby girls, lol, but whatever), and when I began doing this, I could cloak my identity better. Suddenly that safety net has been ripped away.

Yes, I agree, if someone was very determined, they could have found me before. But now it's so much easier that it will take a less insane person to accomplish it.

Very True, All i can say is use your Second Admendment right to the fullest

Alex · 06-11-2005, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chase

Well, I'm not a stripper...I'm just a mom who runs a small site so I can be the one raising my kids, instead of some day care worker.

I chose not to put myself in that situation, (not that any clubs take chubby girls, lol, but whatever), and when I began doing this, I could cloak my identity better. Suddenly that safety net has been ripped away.

Yes, I agree, if someone was very determined, they could have found me before. But now it's so much easier that it will take a less insane person to accomplish it.

That is the only downside to 2257 that has been shown me.

I guess what i can say is try getting in contact with a lawyer, and see if you can find away of keeping records at a thrid party. I know its agaisnt regs, but then again a lawyer would know more.

kernelpanic · 06-11-2005, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

You and i know that there is a difference between being non-compliant and being compliant with a clerical error that can be fixed.

The law makes no distinction between the two.

Its amazing how you're welcoming something that will mean more paperwork and headaches for you, while not keeping children any safer, as it was supposedly designed to do.

riddler · 06-11-2005, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trixie Racer

I value my privacy and do not want stalkers having a much easier time finding my driver's license number, phone number, or home address. The 2257 rules is one of the reasons why I won't shoot for anyone else.

Models will have to become more business savvy, The bigger ones like yourself, Have contracts that say the company thats shooting you can not releasing your info unless under certain stuff is laid out first, Such as a screening process any normal real world job would do.

riddler · 06-11-2005, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kernelpanic

The law makes no distinction between the two.

Its amazing how you're welcoming something that will mean more paperwork and headaches for you, while not keeping children any safer, as it was supposedly designed to do.

haha, more paper work? Being in this business before the new 2257 you barely had to keep any fucking paper work or any at all, Boo hoo we will have to become professional *cry* *cry*

Alex · 06-11-2005, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kernelpanic

The law makes no distinction between the two.

Its amazing how you're welcoming something that will mean more paperwork and headaches for you, while not keeping children any safer, as it was supposedly designed to do.

Who said anything about me welcoming it? I am not.

That wasnt why i started this thread. I'm merely poiting out that if the laws are going to be passed, that there is a positive side.

Trixie Racer · 06-11-2005, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by riddler

I honestly dont care if there is sick people out there or not, It is really no different than working at a late night strip club, A creep can follow you home just as easy as he can get your info from some stupid 2257..

Absolutely not true. I've had a few stalkers whom I've filed police reports against. None of them were able to find my address from following me home. If a stripper is cautious, she can always avoid being followed. That goes for anyone. It's very easy to check your rearview mirror and take alternate routes. With 2257, all a stalker has to do is post up here asking how to buy content of a specific model and he can get her personal info once the transaction completes. MUCH DIFFERENT!

kernelpanic · 06-11-2005, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by riddler

haha, more paper work? Being in this business before the new 2257 you barely had to keep any fucking paper work or any at all, Boo hoo we will have to become professional *cry* *cry*

Oh yay, I can't wait to do more work that brings in 0 new profit. Hooray!

But lets remember, its all about protecting the children.

Alex · 06-11-2005, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cambaby

This should win post of the month here on GFY. Luckily there is no post of the month award because then all these people would get a clue.

Alex · 06-11-2005, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kernelpanic

Oh yay, I can't wait to do more work that brings in 0 new profit. Hooray!

But lets remember, its all about protecting the children.

Fuck yea, lets stop doing our taxes as well.

I mean it is more paperwork and it brings no profit at all.

Stop making yourself look stupid.

riddler · 06-11-2005, 01:35 PM

I see it this way,

We are going to have people bitch and cry about the 2257 no matter what good light it shines on anything, This is one of the business before the 2257 that you barely had to keep much paper work unless you was a affiliate and then usally that was accountant stuff that you hired a accountant to keep on..

That is why mainstream business is harder to take off the ground, Because it has more to deal with paper work, Laws and regulations etc..

Everybody says working in porn is such a hard job working 12 hours a day.

Its bullshit, We are going to have to become more professional which is great, I hope to see the day when adult market is accepted on the stock market and porn companies start doing IPO's and so forth.

Alex · 06-11-2005, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by riddler

I see it this way,

We are going to have people bitch and cry about the 2257 no matter what good light it shines on anything, This is one of the business before the 2257 that you barely had to keep much paper work unless you was a affiliate and then usally that was accountant stuff that you hired a accountant to keep on..

That is why mainstream business is harder to take off the ground, Because it has more to deal with paper work, Laws and regulations etc..

Everybody says working in porn is such a hard job working 12 hours a day.

Its bullshit, We are going to have to become more professional which is great, I hope to see the day when adult market is accepted on the stock market and porn companies start doing IPO's and so forth.

They are moving to that point, and with 2257 in place people wont fear the big bad Adult Entertainment biz. Because it will be more professional

riddler · 06-11-2005, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kernelpanic

Oh yay, I can't wait to do more work that brings in 0 new profit. Hooray!

But lets remember, its all about protecting the children.

Seriously, Porn industry has got used to making money from basicly doing jack shit but peddling smut which will always sell because we are humans, When the porn boom started it was easy to become rich from the shit, Now its harder because people learned that there is no regulations basicly to the whole operation, You sit at a pc all day and dont really deal with much and you make money..

Giorgio_Xo · 06-11-2005, 01:37 PM

There is no positive side of the 2257. It is a bureaucratic impediment to legal free speech. The burden of proof is always on the government. A clerical error should not result in jail time.

BSleazy · 06-11-2005, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trax

thats bullshit
they know that 99% of the content distributed on the net is compliant
that's not what they want to know

they want to fuck with us... they want us to make is little record keeping errors that will get you to jail

such a law does NOT have a possitive side

I don't really think anyone is going to jail over some little record keeping error. It is a definate possibility though if you have young looking girls like little april and can't come up with any id or proof of age in court.

riddler · 06-11-2005, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

They are moving to that point, and with 2257 in place people wont fear the big bad Adult Entertainment biz. Because it will be more professional

Yeah, The more professional the adult industry gets, The image will get better, Sure you will still have religions not accepting us, But hell Playboy and other media companies went through this years ago being accepted in society, Playboy was a big deal for years after it was published and now adays its basicly nothing to anyone anymore unless they are some hardcore bible thumper.

Alex · 06-11-2005, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCyber

I don't really think anyone is going to jail over some little record keeping error. It is a definate possibility though if you have young looking girls like little april and can't come up with any id or proof of age in court.

Which is why most people bitch. WHen it comes down to it, they cant prove that they are doing things leagally, or breaking the law with CP>

kernelpanic · 06-11-2005, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

Fuck yea, lets stop doing our taxes as well.

I mean it is more paperwork and it brings no profit at all.

Stop making yourself look stupid.

Good job extending the argument where it doesn't apply. I take it you won't be posting a week before Apr. 15, since you'll be so fucking ecstatic that you get the privledge of doing your taxes, that you'll just do them over and over again. Am I right, am I right?

Even as convoluted as the American tax code is, it still serves more purpose than this change in 2257. Since you're obviously not dumb, just say it - you welcome this change, because the time you lose to 2257 will be more than made up for by sales you pick up from people who have been forced out of the business. Your business model must be more 2257-proof than average, and you look to decreased competition as a source of increased profits.

Its 2257 today, xxx segregation tomorrow, and then what? Are they going to start licensing adult websites like they license adult bookstores and liquor stores? And will you welcome all that red tape too because of the "professionalism"

2257 is having the side effect of exporting tons of profit from the US and you know it.

kernelpanic · 06-11-2005, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

Which is why most people bitch. WHen it comes down to it, they cant prove that they are doing things leagally, or breaking the law with CP>

Hey, did your host give you the receipts for the servers you're operating from? I mean, they could be stolen, and you want to be doing things on legal ground.

riddler · 06-11-2005, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kernelpanic

Hey, did your host give you the receipts for the servers you're operating from? I mean, they could be stolen, and you want to be doing things on legal ground.

I have every invoice for servers ive purchased and your point being?

Alex · 06-11-2005, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kernelpanic

Good job extending the argument where it doesn't apply. I take it you won't be posting a week before Apr. 15, since you'll be so fucking ecstatic that you get the privledge of doing your taxes, that you'll just do them over and over again. Am I right, am I right?

Even as convoluted as the American tax code is, it still serves more purpose than this change in 2257. Since you're obviously not dumb, just say it - you welcome this change, because the time you lose to 2257 will be more than made up for by sales you pick up from people who have been forced out of the business. Your business model must be more 2257-proof than average, and you look to decreased competition as a source of increased profits.

Its 2257 today, xxx segregation tomorrow, and then what? Are they going to start licensing adult websites like they license adult bookstores and liquor stores? And will you welcome all that red tape too because of the "professionalism"

2257 is having the side effect of exporting tons of profit from the US and you know it.

I do not welcome this change, and if i had the choice i wouldnt do my taxes.

Cant you even consider any opinion other then yours?

Taxes and being 2257-compliant are a most. Sure i would protest agaisnt it but the fact is that we are going to have be 2257 compliant anyways. So why not see the positive side to it.

wjxxx · 06-11-2005, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taibo

sig spot

Alex · 06-11-2005, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kernelpanic

Hey, did your host give you the receipts for the servers you're operating from? I mean, they could be stolen, and you want to be doing things on legal ground.

Okay i see where you are getting at, but if the servers i host on ARE stolen. I wont see any jail time for it, my hosting company will.

But if a sponsor gives me undearge content and i publish it on my site to promote them, i will see jail time.

kernelpanic · 06-11-2005, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

I do not welcome this change, and if i had the choice i wouldnt do my taxes.

Cant you even consider any opinion other then yours?

Taxes and being 2257-compliant are a most. Sure i would protest agaisnt it but the fact is that we are going to have be 2257 compliant anyways. So why not see the positive side to it.

I see exactly where you're coming from, and yes, there are some positive aspects to it. Adult operations can claim strict regulation when defending their legitimacy against further attacks, and this does further remove the legitimate operations from the association with CP that the media loves to use as a scare tactic.

Overall, though, its having a net negative effect on US webmasters.

I dunno, maybe I'm the only one seeing this as the beginning of the end for everyone but the major players.

PMdave · 06-11-2005, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by riddler

Yeah, The more professional the adult industry gets, The image will get better, Sure you will still have religions not accepting us, But hell Playboy and other media companies went through this years ago being accepted in society, Playboy was a big deal for years after it was published and now adays its basicly nothing to anyone anymore unless they are some hardcore bible thumper.

Don't you think Playboy is only "temp. accepted" for the moment there are other things to focus on. If hardcore porn gets banned today playboy would be the target for tomorrow. Has nothing to do with proffesionalism but with 'the lesser evil".

That video thats posted above made me kinda spill my coffee. Flint saying "if you have an undefendible video, to try and take a hardline position for yourself, you're not going to do anything but harm yourself and harm the industry". This comming from the men that made his name, fame and fortune by pushing the limits.... kinda made me laugh

06-11-2005, 01:28 PM	#73
Trixie Racer Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: varies Posts: 2,328	I value my privacy and do not want stalkers having a much easier time finding my driver's license number, phone number, or home address. The 2257 rules is one of the reasons why I won't shoot for anyone else. __________________ Make a Red Cross Donation!

06-11-2005, 01:35 PM	#84
riddler Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: up in gang bang heaven Posts: 3,726	I see it this way, We are going to have people bitch and cry about the 2257 no matter what good light it shines on anything, This is one of the business before the 2257 that you barely had to keep much paper work unless you was a affiliate and then usally that was accountant stuff that you hired a accountant to keep on.. That is why mainstream business is harder to take off the ground, Because it has more to deal with paper work, Laws and regulations etc.. Everybody says working in porn is such a hard job working 12 hours a day. Its bullshit, We are going to have to become more professional which is great, I hope to see the day when adult market is accepted on the stock market and porn companies start doing IPO's and so forth.

06-11-2005, 01:37 PM	#87
Giorgio_Xo Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 4,263	There is no positive side of the 2257. It is a bureaucratic impediment to legal free speech. The burden of proof is always on the government. A clerical error should not result in jail time.