Business Thread... SoloGirl Paysite discussion. Your take on this..

[SteveLightspeed]

Originally Posted by shap

For the record I'm not buffing Steve's butt. I just got an icq from someone asking me why i'm being so nice to Steve. I'm not being nice, i'm just recognizing what i consider to be a solid business model.

Btw it's great to see a business thread get so many great replies

Thanks Shap, but to whoever is icqing you, WTF?
When did I become "evil"? Without naming names here, be a man and act the same way to my face as you do behind my back.

[SteveLightspeed]

Btw, I also credit MikeAI and SweetT as the REAL pioneers in the current sologirl market.

Steve Lightspeed

[Mutt]

Mike AI (01:05 PM) :
Thanks for the plug. it is not like I invented the internet, I would not want on my grave site "father of the solo girl niche" haha

[Shap]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

Thanks Shap, but to whoever is icqing you, WTF?
When did I become "evil"? Without naming names here, be a man and act the same way to my face as you do behind my back.

It was actually my buddy ripping on me and telling me i should remove my head from your ass. I figured if he saw it that way others may as well.

[Wizzo]

[JD]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

Thanks Shap, but to whoever is icqing you, WTF?
When did I become "evil"? Without naming names here, be a man and act the same way to my face as you do behind my back.

evil bastard

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by Wizzo

it's amazing how Brooke is always available when you need a sign done

[KCat]

I've run my own solo girl/amateur/single model site both as a stand alone site & as part of a network of other models. The rebills are what make a site profitable & it should be obvious which one keeps members interested longer. Just take a look at the number of rebills an AVS does.

[chadglni]

You think solo girl sites are the black mark on adult and I think it's the megasites. Sure the rebill forever and a day, god damn you give them $50,000 of porn for $29.95 per month. What exactly did you expect? If they want to jerk off without the internet they are spending that on 2 DVD rentals and some lube.

[Shap]

Originally Posted by chadglni

You think solo girl sites are the black mark on adult and I think it's the megasites. Sure the rebill forever and a day, god damn you give them $50,000 of porn for $29.95 per month. What exactly did you expect? If they want to jerk off without the internet they are spending that on 2 DVD rentals and some lube.

I never said they were the black mark.

We give them much more than $50,000 worth. I've spent $50,000 on Twistys content in the last two weeks alone. Bottomline is Twistys is profitable with our current business model. If giving our members access to $1,000,000 worth of content for $24.95 is profitable for us then that makes us all the more competitve and appealing to prospective members. If solo girl sites can't compete with that it's not my problem We are giving our members good value for their money and making money while doing it. Everybody comes away happy!

[Wizzo]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

it's amazing how Brooke is always available when you need a sign done

Especially when she on the webcam and chat for the tour 24/7... She's a hard working girl...

[chadglni]

Originally Posted by shap

I never said they were the black mark.

We give them much more than $50,000 worth. I've spent $50,000 on Twistys content in the last two weeks alone. Bottomline is Twistys is profitable with our current business model. If giving our members access to $1,000,000 worth of content for $24.95 is profitable for us then that makes us all the more competitve and appealing to prospective members. If solo girl sites can't compete with that it's not my problem We are giving our members good value for their money and making money while doing it. Everybody comes away happy!

You come away happy. I'm not an "old timer" as I started in this business early 2001 so I have no idea where this business got so screwed up. When you have DVD rentals for $10, PPV for $15, webcam shows for $3 a minute or more, phone sex for $2 a minute or more, and megasite with fuckpiles of shit for $30 I'd say the megasite is the one with the bad business model. Sure you sell a ton, if I could buy new cars for $15 and sell them for $30 when everyone else is trying to milk it I'd be the biggest fucking car dealer in the world. It's not good for the industry period.

Don't take this wrong as I am not pointing fingers at you or anyone else. After the model was fried it's damn near impossible to reverse it. That said a solo girl site with 30 sets of content starting out sounds just about right. Now when someone can manage flaky models in bulk and have a network of girls involved in their sites, they will have gold.

[Shap]

Originally Posted by chadglni

You come away happy. I'm not an "old timer" as I started in this business early 2001 so I have no idea where this business got so screwed up. When you have DVD rentals for $10, PPV for $15, webcam shows for $3 a minute or more, phone sex for $2 a minute or more, and megasite with fuckpiles of shit for $30 I'd say the megasite is the one with the bad business model. Sure you sell a ton, if I could buy new cars for $15 and sell them for $30 when everyone else is trying to milk it I'd be the biggest fucking car dealer in the world. It's not good for the industry period.

Don't take this wrong as I am not pointing fingers at you or anyone else. After the model was fried it's damn near impossible to reverse it. That said a solo girl site with 30 sets of content starting out sounds just about right. Now when someone can manage flaky models in bulk and have a network of girls involved in their sites, they will have gold.

I agree. High Speed Connections. Download Bots. Free Sites. All things that lead surfers to want more more more. If a surfer can download a site within a few hours many of them will and will cancel. If i could charge $59.95 a month and make more I would. Problem is people aren't willing to pay $59.95 per month for 1 site. The price point is between $19.95 and $29.95. My guess is that is the comfort zone for most people.

[Audrey]

I like sologirl sites, they are personal and ( can be ) fresh. BUT Everybody is getting into the niche and fucking it up. The market is getting boring now! All the girls are posing on a bed with 5 diff outfits. Then follows the cheerleader costume, the schoolgirl etc... fake as shit!

If you want to promote a site run by a model (me) click here www.meetaudrey.com
It may not be the most successful site, but I work hard to please my members. My site is UNIQUE . Just ask me for a pass and you'll see a DIFFERENT solo site!

[Triple 6]

Originally Posted by Doctor Dre

I'ma work with 3 different kind of tours :
1 : The one that girl could have made herself ... will look like something made on geocities in 1998
2 : The normal generic site
3 : A very flashy glamorous website with shots ... it will literally look like a music video. Maybe even some green screne scenes for the trailers.

We'll see what works ;)

#1 will convert better

[Atticus]

Originally Posted by chadglni

You come away happy. I'm not an "old timer" as I started in this business early 2001 so I have no idea where this business got so screwed up. When you have DVD rentals for $10, PPV for $15, webcam shows for $3 a minute or more, phone sex for $2 a minute or more, and megasite with fuckpiles of shit for $30 I'd say the megasite is the one with the bad business model. Sure you sell a ton, if I could buy new cars for $15 and sell them for $30 when everyone else is trying to milk it I'd be the biggest fucking car dealer in the world. It's not good for the industry period.

Don't take this wrong as I am not pointing fingers at you or anyone else. After the model was fried it's damn near impossible to reverse it. That said a solo girl site with 30 sets of content starting out sounds just about right. Now when someone can manage flaky models in bulk and have a network of girls involved in their sites, they will have gold.

This is the evolution of an industry. By your rational a movie in the theater costs $9 a ticket therefor Netflix should be $99 a month or since HBO runs ya $10 extra a month Direct TV should be $200 and change. $29.95 for a membership to a porn site, no matter how much content is outrageous. $30 for a single girl site is outright larceny. But its sex related so the consumer will pay it. Eventually however prices and profit margins will come back down to reality, as it does in every industry. (Look at Playboy subscriptions starting at $1 an issue) As much as the online industry drives technology, eventually we will look at mainstream companies for their marketing.

[Marshal]

bump for you... ;)

[chadglni]

Originally Posted by Atticus

This is the evolution of an industry. By your rational a movie in the theater costs $9 a ticket therefor Netflix should be $99 a month or since HBO runs ya $10 extra a month Direct TV should be $200 and change. $29.95 for a membership to a porn site, no matter how much content is outrageous. $30 for a single girl site is outright larceny. But its sex related so the consumer will pay it. Eventually however prices and profit margins will come back down to reality, as it does in every industry. (Look at Playboy subscriptions starting at $1 an issue) As much as the online industry drives technology, eventually we will look at mainstream companies for their marketing.

One word WRONG. $30 a month is perfectly damn fine for ANY product people want. It's a bunch of retarded morons who graduated last year that can jump in this business that fuck it up then everyone has to compete. Oh and while I'm selling a good product for a great price let me go give it away on 50000 sites to get some quick traffic today. The persons that conceived this business model should be shot for idiocy.

By the way, if you wanted to compare netflix pricing to that of adult websites netflix would be charging $0.22 per month for their service.

[Atticus]

Originally Posted by chadglni

One word WRONG. $30 a month is perfectly damn fine for ANY product people want. It's a bunch of retarded morons who graduated last year that can jump in this business that fuck it up then everyone has to compete. Oh and while I'm selling a good product for a great price let me go give it away on 50000 sites to get some quick traffic today. The persons that conceived this business model should be shot for idiocy.

By the way, if you wanted to compare netflix pricing to that of adult websites netflix would be charging $0.22 per month for their service.

Good product for a great price? You're drinking the Kool-Aid. The pricing structure for online adult is a bit out of touch with reality and the entertainment industry. Would you pay individually for your television stations. $24.95 a month for NBC? $39.95 for ESPN? Of course not. It flys because its sex and you can mark up sex related products...to a point. Eventually, as in all industries, the price points will drop while the content increases.

[KCat]

Originally Posted by chadglni

One word WRONG. $30 a month is perfectly damn fine for ANY product people want. It's a bunch of retarded morons who graduated last year that can jump in this business that fuck it up then everyone has to compete. Oh and while I'm selling a good product for a great price let me go give it away on 50000 sites to get some quick traffic today. The persons that conceived this business model should be shot for idiocy.

By the way, if you wanted to compare netflix pricing to that of adult websites netflix would be charging $0.22 per month for their service.

What happened to all of those $10 sites that everybody was launching last year? I'm not privvy to the numbers, but based on the current price structure of the big programs I'm guessing that sales did not skyrocket when a lower price point was offered. $30 is still the standard.

[chadglni]

Originally Posted by Atticus

Good product for a great price? You're drinking the Kool-Aid. The pricing structure for online adult is a bit out of touch with reality and the entertainment industry. Would you pay individually for your television stations. $24.95 a month for NBC? $39.95 for ESPN? Of course not. It flys because its sex and you can mark up sex related products...to a point. Eventually, as in all industries, the price points will drop while the content increases.

You have as much sense as a pickle. Comparing porn to NBC is like comparing Ford to Hot Wheels. Would you pay $10 for one episode or porn on TV because people do it daily.

[chadglni]

Originally Posted by KCat

What happened to all of those $10 sites that everybody was launching last year? I'm not privvy to the numbers, but based on the current price structure of the big programs I'm guessing that sales did not skyrocket when a lower price point was offered. $30 is still the standard.

$30 is fine and no I doubt signups went up any significant number at $10. Retention is better most likely but you the average rebill to be over 3 times as long just to come out to even.

[SteveLightspeed]

Raising prices, lowering prices, it doesn't really matter. You can pour sugar on shit, but its still shit. Surfers are smarter than ever now. The oldschool tricks just don't work anymore.

A quality site will sell and retain. Attention to details, treating your surfers, members, models, employees, and affiliates with respect, and under-promising and over-delivering are the best way to make money in the sologirl market. Period.

[MacDaddyPlaya]

Melissa Midwest is hot!

[Atticus]

Originally Posted by chadglni

You have as much sense as a pickle. Comparing porn to NBC is like comparing Ford to Hot Wheels. Would you pay $10 for one episode or porn on TV because people do it daily.

A pickle huh? Interesting choice. I am well aware of the market differences between mainstream entertainment and adult entertainment. I believe I have repeatedly said in this thread the reason the industry can currently get away with charging $40 a month is because iof the "sex" label. But as in all industries the price structure will come down. Its the nature of competition and common sense. Put thousands of webmasters together all trying to get an edge and you will end up with lower prices and increased content. Just because its sex doesnt mean it doesnt have the same business principles as all other industries.

[KCat]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

You can pour sugar on shit, but its still shit.

[TheJimmy]

Originally Posted by MacDaddyPlaya

Melissa Midwest is hot!

I know huhhhhhh!???





PS: Right on to what Steve said...sugar on shit is still shit...love that...

[Theo]

Originally Posted by shap

My question to you GFYers is...
What do you think of the current SoloGirl Paysite Craze?
Do you think companies are making bank on them or just doing alright?

Hi Shap,


2005 was a sologirl craziness year, no doubt. Why? For the simple reason webmasters got the impression they can get a girl willing to do some nude shoots for few bucks, become sponsors themselves and cash big time on her.

So far so good, but they missed the most important. Adult entertainment industry doesn't work like this anymore. A paysite is a serious investment and weak attempts collapse before even starting.

We differentiate ourselves by geting only the best looking models dedicated to really put hard work on their sites which translates among others to DAILY live cam sessions. We shoot all our content in HDV and on various indoor and outdoor places. We update not 1, not 2, but 3 times per week, every week.

Competition is hard and this has been only the beginning.

[nastyboy1]

Originally Posted by Atticus

It flys because its sex and you can mark up sex related products...to a point. Eventually, as in all industries, the price points will drop while the content increases.

Interresting. While I understand your point this is not universally true. Actually often the opposite is true.

Healthcare: costs have steadily risen over the years and show no signs of reversing. These increases come at a time when there are more hospitals and services available than ever before.

Cable / Sattelite TV: While I wouldn't pay $34.00 a month for ESPN ( well maybe I would) the costs for cable have risen since deregulation. Every time I increase the content of my TV service (i.e. increase channels) the price goes up

Entertainment Industry: Weather it's the theater, concerts or the movies ticket prices have increased even though there are more venues and events than ever before.

[Pacino]

Great thread... I'm new to the business, started in 2004. When I first started out honestly I didn't know what the hell I was doing and still don't I'm always learning though. In time I hooked up with an experienced webmaster which really made a difference. My first site was a multi site than I opened a solo site. My program and sites have done very well considering my short time in this business. I think part of the success is the work I put into finding fresh faces. Most of the girls I shoot are completely new and not over exposed. We also work very hard with design and promotion. Always giving 24/7 member and affiliate support. Competition is hard and I think whether it's a solo or multi site you are promoting having a strong work ethic is a hugh factor in the success or failure of a site.. and a hot exclusive girl doesn't hurt either

Pacino

"under-promising and over-delivering are the best way to make money in the sologirl market. Period."
This quote from lightspeed is so true

[tranza]

too much discussion

[Shap]

Originally Posted by Soul_Rebel

Hi Shap,


2005 was a sologirl craziness year, no doubt. Why? For the simple reason webmasters got the impression they can get a girl willing to do some nude shoots for few bucks, become sponsors themselves and cash big time on her.

So far so good, but they missed the most important. Adult entertainment industry doesn't work like this anymore. A paysite is a serious investment and weak attempts collapse before even starting.

We differentiate ourselves by geting only the best looking models dedicated to really put hard work on their sites which translates among others to DAILY live cam sessions. We shoot all our content in HDV and on various indoor and outdoor places. We update not 1, not 2, but 3 times per week, every week.

Competition is hard and this has been only the beginning.

Great post Soul

[Snake Doctor]

Interesting discussion.

I've never been able to make money promoting a solo girl site, so based on that I never really thought about starting one.
I have talked to some people on the photography end of the biz who tell me that for a "good" solo girl site you're going to pay substantially more per photoset and video than you would otherwise, because you're trying to get some degree of exclusivity.

The problem really is people are always trying to do things on the cheap.
They find a stoned stripper that they thought was hot as hell when they got a lapdance, promise her she'll make a million bucks and pull out a cheap camera and shoot 20 sets and call that a paysite.
Compare that the the quality of photography you see on lightspeed sites. (Not to mention the quality of the girls)

People also forget that content may be king, but traffic rules.
With enough traffic you can make money with almost any type of content. However, your girl may be the greatest thing since sliced bread but if you don't have traffic you don't have shit.

I think the reason some of the big companies (Silvercash for example) are getting into the solo girl market is because their affiliates are asking them to. As long as they have the traffic base to support the sites then they're worth the investment.

[Mutt]

it will be a cold day in hell when there aren't any men out there willing to spend 30 bucks to see sexy movies and photos and interact with an 18 year old still in high school like this one who they will have never seen anywhere before.

Girl Next Door - as enduring an American icon as exists throughout the world - Mickey Mouse, Coca Cola, rock n' roll, Girl Next Door - be it mainstream entertainment or adult entertainment.







and solo girl sites can convert as well as multi model sites like Twistys and ATK and Karups with their vast amounts of exclusive content - on the right traffic of course.

[Snake Doctor]

I also wanted to add this regarding the content/traffic thing.

Too many newbs think that if they can find a hot girl and shoot some hot pics they'll get tons of traffic from affiliates the way Lightspeed does.
They are of course in for a rude awakening once the site opens, and they're really no different from the bazillion people who have opened partnership programs with a few CD's worth of content over the years and then wondered why nobody would send them traffic.

What it all boils down to is that we're in the traffic business, everything else is just details. If you have the traffic you have a business, if you don't then you better have the cash to buy it from somebody who does.

[CybermedAndy]

I love threads like this... extended business conversation with tons of insight

Too bad they are so rare

[JD]

Originally Posted by AngelDollarsAndy

I love threads like this... extended business conversation with tons of insight

Too bad they are so rare

[wayward]

damn, yeah i dont come to gfy all that much or if i do its more to read a bit and not post, too much bs too often, but this is by far the best discussion thread ive read in ages. It's good to see the insights by some of those that are successful and others that just like to talk.

someone said it, or probably many, that this is the traffic business. you could be a small program with the hottest girl this side of everywhere, who interacts constantly on the site, works hard etc etc but without the affiliates and the traffic your going to get only a few sales a day, and when translated into the actual time it takes to produce the content, design, run the site etc etc your not making much. marketing marketing marketing!

[Dugmor]

Originally Posted by Doctor Dre

I'ma work with 3 different kind of tours :
1 : The one that girl could have made herself ... will look like something made on geocities in 1998
2 : The normal generic site
3 : A very flashy glamorous website with shots ... it will literally look like a music video. Maybe even some green screne scenes for the trailers.

We'll see what works ;)

You can test them out here.........


1: The one that girl could have made herself ... will look like something made on geocities in 1998

2 : The normal generic site

3 : A very flashy glamorous website with shots ... it will literally look like a music video. Maybe even some green screne scenes for the trailers.

[slapass]

V-rocks hit it dead on from an affiliate point of view. The drop dead tease sites convert. Then the surfer sees her tits or pussy or whatever he did not see on the tour and he is done.
Lightspeed retains. If you are pushing revshare what else do you care about? TeenRevenue sucked shit out of the gate. They did not retain at all. Now they followed lightspeed a bit in their structure and now they retain too.
I can not tell if a girl is hot enough to convert. You have to send traffic and see. But a smokin hot girl is not enough to retain.

[Doctor Dre]

Originally Posted by KCat

What happened to all of those $10 sites that everybody was launching last year? I'm not privvy to the numbers, but based on the current price structure of the big programs I'm guessing that sales did not skyrocket when a lower price point was offered. $30 is still the standard.

Yep they were pretty much failures.

[scoreman]

The single model site business is very tough. Part of the problem is that by its very nature, single model sites have a finite timeline. I'm not just talking about models getting older, but other elements that always seem to happen when a model is involved in a site that is solely about her. As time passes difficulties seem to always occur regarding fairness of compensation, involvement in the site, willingness to shoot etc. I know there are examples where the model herself runs the site/program but those sites are not very common.

It's almost catch-22, you make the model exclusive and the contract with her ends up being described by her as "indentured servitude". Those who have actually run single model sites for a while will know what I am talking about. You decide to run the model non exclusive and just shoot years of content on the front end and then you have a hard time selling the site because the gal shoots with everyone else.

I like the single model business, its just not something I would push all my chips to the middle over. Anyone who manages a group of models exclusive and manages to keep them all happy gets my respect as this is very difficult.

[Marshal]

bumpity bump... ;)

[Paul Markham]

My take on this is simple. A lot of the budgets I've been offered to shoot solo girl sites are worth us bothering with.

100 set + 8 hours of video for $20,000 is the price one guy quotes. He then boasts about shooting this on a schedule that would kill him or a model, creatively. So is he just churning it out or creating something with texture, depth and appeal?

What suffers for most of these sites is the budget for the content.

Girls get tired and bored sitting naked with their legs open all day, there are only so many time she can fake an orgasm on camera and make it mean something.

Then there is the photographer.

Shooting all day long at a pace that leaves you breathless means your creative juices dry up after 3-5 hours. Then it's auto pilot and you have the prospect of doing it all again tomorrow and for the next week.

Then we have problems with locations, props and clothing, exactly how many times can you shoot the same girl in the same location and keep it interesting?

Now you have the problem of actually finding a model who will be a cut above the rest. Most girls in this business do it for the money and only the money. They get little fun out of it, no pleasure and the work is "Soul Less". Multiply that by the fact that she only pretty, the shooter's tired and probably not on the top of his profession and you end up with "FILLER CONTENT"

So why do sites do it?

Try opening any other site with $20,000 and there is your answer.

As for the formula of 4-5 sales a day cutting it, that's a joke.

4-5 sales, less processing is $114 a day. Assuming you are giving affiliates something lets say you have $60 a day. $1,800 a month. Less hosting of $400 leaves $1,400 a month.

[Paul Markham]

Sorry I pressed the submit button.

$1,400 a month, $16,800 a year.

Where's the profit after you spent $20,000 on content alone.

But today there is little options, because few other sites will get off the ground with only $20,000 of content.

[Paul Markham]

There's another thing I forgot to mention. The quality of models. Good looking girls like Tawnee and Jordan are in demand everywhere. If they are based anywhere with a soft porn business they can easily make $1,000 a week, some weeks more and some weeks less.

Keeping these girls exclusive costs money. We are shooting a girl who did not think twice to turn down an offer of $35,000 to go exclusive for a year. so the stable of girls available is cut down.

Don't know about US law but in the UK if you sign someone up for an exclusive contract and it's proved the person could of earned more non exclusive the contract is invalid.

But that does not matter if you're trying to sue a girl for breaking a contract when she does not have any money.

[Shap]

Originally Posted by scoreman

The single model site business is very tough. Part of the problem is that by its very nature, single model sites have a finite timeline. I'm not just talking about models getting older, but other elements that always seem to happen when a model is involved in a site that is solely about her. As time passes difficulties seem to always occur regarding fairness of compensation, involvement in the site, willingness to shoot etc. I know there are examples where the model herself runs the site/program but those sites are not very common.

It's almost catch-22, you make the model exclusive and the contract with her ends up being described by her as "indentured servitude". Those who have actually run single model sites for a while will know what I am talking about. You decide to run the model non exclusive and just shoot years of content on the front end and then you have a hard time selling the site because the gal shoots with everyone else.

I like the single model business, its just not something I would push all my chips to the middle over. Anyone who manages a group of models exclusive and manages to keep them all happy gets my respect as this is very difficult.

I always love reading your posts David

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by wayward

damn, yeah i dont come to gfy all that much or if i do its more to read a bit and not post, too much bs too often, but this is by far the best discussion thread ive read in ages. It's good to see the insights by some of those that are successful and others that just like to talk.

someone said it, or probably many, that this is the traffic business. you could be a small program with the hottest girl this side of everywhere, who interacts constantly on the site, works hard etc etc but without the affiliates and the traffic your going to get only a few sales a day, and when translated into the actual time it takes to produce the content, design, run the site etc etc your not making much. marketing marketing marketing!

It's about balance. If you have a great site, you only have to get an affiliate to try you once. He sees how well it works and he sticks to it, like Steve LS's sites.

Put up a site that is poor and you have to keep pushing people to promote, you're sailing across a choppy sea in a leaking boat.

Balance with the emphasis on content and you don't have the leaks.

Now the problem is do you have the skills and resources to find the right girl, get her shot well and put up a great site? Like LS.

Or do you only have the skills and resources to put up an "all right" site and throw affiliates at it? Like 100 others.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Lightspeed

Raising prices, lowering prices, it doesn't really matter. You can pour sugar on shit, but its still shit. Surfers are smarter than ever now. The oldschool tricks just don't work anymore.

A quality site will sell and retain. Attention to details, treating your surfers, members, models, employees, and affiliates with respect, and under-promising and over-delivering are the best way to make money in the sologirl market. Period.

DON'T BE SILLY.

YOU CAN PUT UP ANYTHING ON THE INTERNET AND THROW TRAFFIC AT IT AND MAKE BILLIONS.

Until the affiliates see the checks they don't get.

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

"You decide to run the model non exclusive and just shoot years of content on the front end and then you have a hard time selling the site because the gal shoots with everyone else."

I do not agree with this. I think it is important that the girl continue to perform at as many venues as possible and it will result in her site IF!!! it is good and thus will attract fans/subscribers.
Why do you think the Print Publications are sucking up internet girls right now and putting them in the pages?