The reason it's better to hire a GOOD designer over a cheap one.. - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

DamageX · 01-20-2006, 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhutocracy

Any designer (that doesn't have his own outsourced labor) working in the current adult market is working for peanuts. Anyhow back to point, if you read the reply properly you'll comprehend I didn't say they did a better job then you for more money than you, but their crime was doing better jobs for more money than they would for less.

I read the thread properly. You didn't say that anywhere. Well, except in the above post, of course.

bhutocracy · 01-20-2006, 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhutocracy

Says the little designer working for peanuts and has to resort to trying to pull down his competition with smarmy remarks for the crime of doing a better job for more money.

maybe it was here in a post that you quoted me on?

italics were to show context.

DamageX · 01-20-2006, 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhutocracy

maybe it was here in a post that you quoted me on?

italics were to show context.

You win. I have better things to do that to argue with walls.

bhutocracy · 01-20-2006, 05:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamageX

You win. I have better things to do that to argue with walls.

I gratiously accept.

bhutocracy · 01-20-2006, 05:25 AM

anyways.. you guys should try dabbling in a less educated market where clients aren't exposed directly to the whole international market of prices.

Egomancer · 01-20-2006, 05:45 AM

You all must be aware of a simple thing: in the internet related domanin we have a global market. This means that people from all over the world compete for the same resources (money). This means that the market regualtes itself globally (meaning that the salaries in the 3rd world coutries increase and the salaries in USD ans EU will either decrease either there will be a lot of unemployeed people).

In other words: you get what you pay for. A well established company from any country in the world will ask you more money for a high quality design than a company that still has to prove that can make designs.

Moving to this case: from the designers point of view it is normal to assign less developemtn time for a design that pays 100$ than for a design that pays 600$. Or if I have more designers I assign the best for the 600$ one and the worst for the 100$.

I am new in the porn industry but I am running a succesfull business in software development for almost 6 years now. From my past experience I can tell you only one thing: do the things right and you will succeed in ANY business. You do not need to be better than the best, hell, you do not need to be as good as the best. All you need is to be as good or a little better than the average and you will make money.

Egomancer

Murderous · 01-20-2006, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Egomancer

You all must be aware of a simple thing: in the internet related domanin we have a global market. This means that people from all over the world compete for the same resources (money). This means that the market regualtes itself globally (meaning that the salaries in the 3rd world coutries increase and the salaries in USD ans EU will either decrease either there will be a lot of unemployeed people).

In other words: you get what you pay for. A well established company from any country in the world will ask you more money for a high quality design than a company that still has to prove that can make designs.

Moving to this case: from the designers point of view it is normal to assign less developemtn time for a design that pays 100$ than for a design that pays 600$. Or if I have more designers I assign the best for the 600$ one and the worst for the 100$.

I am new in the porn industry but I am running a succesfull business in software development for almost 6 years now. From my past experience I can tell you only one thing: do the things right and you will succeed in ANY business. You do not need to be better than the best, hell, you do not need to be as good as the best. All you need is to be as good or a little better than the average and you will make money.

Egomancer

Oh yeah...
I am average, never claim to be more. I charge what a job is worth to me for my time and efforts. I am reliable, fast and usually available because I am not a large company or an outsourced company. Sometimes a client pays more for the convenience of availability and getting the job done. And did I mention I speak english?

bhutocracy · 01-20-2006, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Egomancer

You all must be aware of a simple thing: in the internet related domanin we have a global market. This means that people from all over the world compete for the same resources (money). This means that the market regualtes itself globally (meaning that the salaries in the 3rd world coutries increase and the salaries in USD ans EU will either decrease either there will be a lot of unemployeed people).

Yeah.. hence me suggesting looking into uneducated markets.. Even on a basic and very obvious level, most adult designers miss out on hosting revenue because all their clients have better hosting than they do whereas the similar sized and skilled mainstream team/sole operator the block over are charging 50 local businesses they've designed sites for $30/mo hosting and cramming them all on a $9.95 virtual account.

sweetcuties · 01-20-2006, 06:09 AM

My guy charges $35 I think per gallery... I buy in bulk. I glady pay because his gal's kick ass

Egomancer · 01-20-2006, 06:10 AM

You shoul duse 'cheapp markets' not uneducated. Being uneducated means that they are not able to do the job that needs education (training).

The funny thing is that I started as an outsourcer and in 6 years I got to get local work and outsource it to cheap markets. So basically I switched places. All that I can say is that life is ironic!

Egomancer

Veterans Day · 01-20-2006, 06:10 AM

best converting design for me when I used to push adult sites was shit that looked like it cost 12 bucks

Egomancer · 01-20-2006, 06:12 AM

35$ for a TGP? Hmm, I charge one of my present clients 1.5$ per gallery, but the work is not exactly top of the line. The guy knows it, I know it, but when I make him like 1000-2000 galleries per month I do not think that I can handle so many at the 35$ price (and consequently quality).

As long as the request meets the demand and everybody is happy then all is fine!

Egomancer

mongoman · 01-20-2006, 06:12 AM

Hell a $600 dollar job is not worth getting out of bed for. Average contract for me is $8500. But then they are typically mainstream full dynamic sites. Don't know how a designer can talk with someone abou what they want and make it for $100, since that is 1 hour of billable time.

bhutocracy · 01-20-2006, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Egomancer

You shoul duse 'cheapp markets' not uneducated. Being uneducated means that they are not able to do the job that needs education (training).

The funny thing is that I started as an outsourcer and in 6 years I got to get local work and outsource it to cheap markets. So basically I switched places. All that I can say is that life is ironic!

Egomancer

nono.. by uneducated market i mean the CLIENTS are uneducated. GFY is an EDUCATED market.. all the clients KNOW EXACTLY how much everything costs and how much they can get away with paying.
Local businesses are an UNEDUCATED market because they don't have a clue how much the site and hosting they need to get done costs.

Egomancer · 01-20-2006, 06:16 AM

Bhuto - ok, then I suppose you are right!

Egomancer

LadyMischief · 01-20-2006, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eroswebmaster

And as far as the LM's original post. When it comes to designing FHG's, some sponsors just want a ton to toss out there.

Either way for them it's branding. Sure they want them to sell, but they wannt them done cheap, quick and in bulk and flood the market so not only are 1,000's of eyes seeing their brand, but they are seeing it over and over again.

There's a method to the madness in bulk orders...I counseled many clients on how bulk FHG's are done.

Yes, but remember, anyone who is trying to market a brand, branding can be negative OR positive... If you give your surfers a reason to associate your brand with negativity, they will do so.. people are more likely to jump the negative gun than the positive one.

LadyMischief · 01-20-2006, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thinkx

FHG are needed, thats all, when we order its the paysite, banners AND FHG, after a month or 3 a bunch of new FHG with the design, but I gotta be honest making 100 FHG sound pretty boring to me, glad Im no designer

It's very difficult to continue to be creative and original, at that point.. It can be very tedious.

Egomancer · 01-20-2006, 06:39 AM

Lady, try to make 2000 FGHs per month at a top quality and we talk after that. Not to mention that you need to pay for that ;)

Egomancer

DamageX · 01-20-2006, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhutocracy

GFY is an EDUCATED market..

Although I agree with you, I couldn't help but laugh at this one.

LadyMischief · 01-20-2006, 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamageX

Did you even read the whole thread? Did you see anywhere a post of mine where I said I was working for less money? Although I'm yet to charge as much as the more established design studios, I'm willing to go head-to-head with anyone, when it comes to results provided by our designs. Now laugh all you want, but if you want a design that sells, I'm your guy. And yes, I know my marketing damn well.

MARKETING is the bottom line in "design". I almost hate the word designer, and the stigma that seems to be connected to it. A "designer" in this business also has to be a copyrighter, marketing director, market research analyst and a lot more. They have to know the market, know how to sell to the market, AND know how to create a visually pleasing presentation that will induce a "customer" to make a purchase. THAT isn't design, it's not making pretty flashy pages, it's MARKETING.... Far too many designers do great work, but can't market things. No matter what, I would take a design that was created from a marketing standpoint over a design created from a purely artistic/aesthetic standpoint anyday, and it will do better every time.

Egomancer · 01-20-2006, 06:44 AM

Correct!

Egomancer

DamageX · 01-20-2006, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyMischief

MARKETING is the bottom line in "design". I almost hate the word designer, and the stigma that seems to be connected to it. A "designer" in this business also has to be a copyrighter, marketing director, market research analyst and a lot more. They have to know the market, know how to sell to the market, AND know how to create a visually pleasing presentation that will induce a "customer" to make a purchase. THAT isn't design, it's not making pretty flashy pages, it's MARKETING.... Far too many designers do great work, but can't market things. No matter what, I would take a design that was created from a marketing standpoint over a design created from a purely artistic/aesthetic standpoint anyday, and it will do better every time.

Why would I ever argue with you?

LadyMischief · 01-20-2006, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Egomancer

35$ for a TGP? Hmm, I charge one of my present clients 1.5$ per gallery, but the work is not exactly top of the line. The guy knows it, I know it, but when I make him like 1000-2000 galleries per month I do not think that I can handle so many at the 35$ price (and consequently quality).

As long as the request meets the demand and everybody is happy then all is fine!

Egomancer

You sell yourself and all the other designer in the biz short doing that. Seriously.

LadyMischief · 01-20-2006, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Egomancer

Lady, try to make 2000 FGHs per month at a top quality and we talk after that. Not to mention that you need to pay for that ;)

Egomancer

I would never even attempt 2000 in a month because I refuse to put out anything below a certain standard of quality, no matter how many bulk orders I take on... I refuse to shortchange my clients when they're paying good money.. I might make 500-600 galleries in a month, but they work, my clients are happy, I'm happy, and it all works out well.

LadyMischief · 01-20-2006, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamageX

Why would I ever argue with you?

You wouldn't..you and I think with the same mind when it comes to marketing, half the time :P

DamageX · 01-20-2006, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyMischief

You sell yourself and all the other designer in the biz short doing that. Seriously.

No, he's not. He's not doing the galleries himself, he most likely has some poor sod churning them out, paying him $3-400/mo. Add taxes for that employee (if he pays any) and he's up to say $6-700/mo tops. I'd say that's a decent profit. Get ten of those and it's a very decent living.

LadyMischief · 01-20-2006, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamageX

No, he's not. He's not doing the galleries himself, he most likely has some poor sod churning them out, paying him $3-400/mo. Add taxes for that employee (if he pays any) and he's up to say $6-700/mo tops. I'd say that's a decent profit. Get ten of those and it's a very decent living.

Heh.. back to oursourcing. I don't think I could in goo conscience put my work in someone else's hands, claim it's my own, and guarantee the quality. When I can clone myself exactly, then I will let someone else do my work, but until that point, I do everything all on my lonesome.

Egomancer · 01-20-2006, 06:51 AM

Lady, these are different demands, I mean he wants tons of pages sumary designed while you do pages that have more work put in them. Of course I think I can handle more advanced work but first I want to know the basics, only after you get to more evolved things.

Doing this I do not risk to blow my entire business up because I start doing things I do not know how to complete and destroy my client base.

Egomancer

P.S. I do not think that we compete for the same jobs ;)

Egomancer · 01-20-2006, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamageX

No, he's not. He's not doing the galleries himself, he most likely has some poor sod churning them out, paying him $3-400/mo. Add taxes for that employee (if he pays any) and he's up to say $6-700/mo tops. I'd say that's a decent profit. Get ten of those and it's a very decent living.

DamageX you understood the situation perfectly. This kind of deals is developed by people that are payed with around 600-700 USD per month. I keep a guy doing this up to 3 months. If I see that he is hardworking and competent he moves to more advanced designs. If not then he will stay doing this forever (m,eaning a few months until he quits).

I like to keep my employees happy but everybody needs to start from somewhere.

Egomancer

DamageX · 01-20-2006, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Egomancer

DamageX you understood the situation perfectly. This kind of deals is developed by people that are payed with around 600-700 USD per month. I keep a guy doing this up to 3 months. If I see that he is hardworking and competent he moves to more advanced designs. If not then he will stay doing this forever (m,eaning a few months until he quits).

I like to keep my employees happy but everybody needs to start from somewhere.

Egomancer

I'd like to believe you on the start-up pay of $6-700/mo, but I know for a fact that the job market in Romania is less expensive. You can get a qualified designer/programmer for that money. Grunt salaries start at around $250-300/mo. Even lower, most of the time.

Egomancer · 01-20-2006, 07:04 AM

Grunt salary is 300$ - 350$ but you need to pay taxes (which add 300 more). After that you have to pay the fixed expenses (150 USD at least) so you get very close to 1000$. Add my profit and you see that such a worker needs to do a lot of things to earn his money for a living.

If the salaries have been lower then I would made the things even cheaper ;).

Egomancer

LadyMischief · 01-20-2006, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Egomancer

Lady, these are different demands, I mean he wants tons of pages sumary designed while you do pages that have more work put in them. Of course I think I can handle more advanced work but first I want to know the basics, only after you get to more evolved things.

Doing this I do not risk to blow my entire business up because I start doing things I do not know how to complete and destroy my client base.

Egomancer

P.S. I do not think that we compete for the same jobs ;)

Probably not, I have a very well established clientbase, and 95% of my work comes from repeat customers, with a smattering of smaller orders coming in from new ones.

Rui · 01-20-2006, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamageX

I'd like to believe you on the start-up pay of $6-700/mo, but I know for a fact that the job market in Romania is less expensive. You can get a qualified designer/programmer for that money. Grunt salaries start at around $250-300/mo. Even lower, most of the time.

rigth on the money...

pornguy · 01-20-2006, 10:38 AM

the thing that gets me when someone wants us to make a stie, mainstream or not, they say we want it to look like this this and this. we try to explain what they not want to use this this and this, and they demand it. They pay the price, and then balme us because things dont sell.

DamageX · 01-20-2006, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pornguy

the thing that gets me when someone wants us to make a stie, mainstream or not, they say we want it to look like this this and this. we try to explain what they not want to use this this and this, and they demand it. They pay the price, and then balme us because things dont sell.

What you do, in those cases, is get them to assume all responsibility for failure, if you go on creating it like they want.

LadyMischief · 01-20-2006, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pornguy

the thing that gets me when someone wants us to make a stie, mainstream or not, they say we want it to look like this this and this. we try to explain what they not want to use this this and this, and they demand it. They pay the price, and then balme us because things dont sell.

Absolutely, I fully agree. It should be more of a corroboration if they want something that will REALLY work well, especially if they have someone who has experience in marketing. The guys who produce do so for a reason.

eroswebmaster · 01-20-2006, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Yes, but remember, anyone who is trying to market a brand, branding can be negative OR positive... If you give your surfers a reason to associate your brand with negativity, they will do so.. people are more likely to jump the negative gun than the positive one.

This where sorry to say, some people don't quite fully understand the bulk FHG market.
Please don't get this wrong. I counseled many clients on this and I won't spill the secrets behind FHG's.

The design of an FHG is to do a number of things and it depends upon the priorities the sponsor sets with their order.

Of course designed to sell is a priority. But most people thing an FHG's first priority is to sell to the surfers. Not 100% of the time.

Often its first priority is to sell the webmasters on using them. This is why so many people demand that the gallery be "pretty" rather than effective.

The surfer 99.9% of the time doesn't care how pretty your graphics are. They don't care if you spent 15 minutes, or 15 hours putting it together. They just want to see tits and ass.

So in essence branding rarely is ever negative because of design. This is why people were so willing to buy memberships to sites that looked like horrible geocities designs for so long.

Now, sure if you have some bad engrish on there. Or someone just fucks it up so badly I'm sure it can have a negative effect. But in general, a gallery that follows simple layout rules will have as much of an effect in branding as a pretty gallery if the branding is done right..and it's just so simple to do it correctly.

eroswebmaster · 01-20-2006, 12:02 PM

Let me qualify once again my statements in this thread are solely based upon my experience as a bulk gallery maker.

For those who do more than just bang out galleries, your experiences of course vary and my comments don't necessarily apply to you.

bhutocracy · 01-20-2006, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamageX

Although I agree with you, I couldn't help but laugh at this one.

LOL touché

Paul Markham · 01-21-2006, 01:20 AM

This sector of the porn industry started out very easily, most people were amazed there was even porn on the Internet.

What was available was pretty poor, look at some of my posts from 2001 about the standard of content. Everything was about traffic and the scramble to get it.

Today many are realising that traffic is not enough, you have to convert it. Design and content does the converting. So some sites are realising that while it's important to keep the traffic flow up converting it is even more important. Simply because by having good conversions you keep getting good traffic.

So more and more sponsors are looking for better designs and content.

The fly in the ointment is many still think they should pay the same momeny to a professional with talent as they pay to a monkey with a keyboard or camera.

But natural selection will get rid of these people, becasue the hardest person to fool these days is the guy with a credit card and $30 to spend on porn.

toddler · 01-21-2006, 02:44 AM

It always kills me when I see 'designers' here offering work for super cheap. Doing so just causes a never ending spiral of cheapness. Diminishing returns if you will. And they are only hurting themselves. We have standard packages, and the bare minimum is $500, and thats for a simple logo. We usually have plenty of work too.

It always makes me happy when a customer likes the work so much that they overpay. Its happened a couple of times now, where we've gotten another 50% of the job as a tip. Treat your customers with respect, charge what your time is worth, and work well and efficiently and you won't have problems. Pricing yourselves into obscurity in the negative sense is just bad business.

Tricksy · 01-21-2006, 04:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thinkx

so when we put $100 on the table and ask you to make a design its gonna be total crap cause you just want more?

wow thats a new approach

*scratching one of the list*

As for me, I'll do the design that cost $100 but I won't spend much time on it. Moreover, it's gonna be very simple design. If you pay me at least $500, I'll make good effort making really good design that cost $500. Simple truth!

DamageX · 01-21-2006, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toddler

It always kills me when I see 'designers' here offering work for super cheap. Doing so just causes a never ending spiral of cheapness. Diminishing returns if you will. And they are only hurting themselves. We have standard packages, and the bare minimum is $500, and thats for a simple logo. We usually have plenty of work too.

It always makes me happy when a customer likes the work so much that they overpay. Its happened a couple of times now, where we've gotten another 50% of the job as a tip. Treat your customers with respect, charge what your time is worth, and work well and efficiently and you won't have problems. Pricing yourselves into obscurity in the negative sense is just bad business.

Simple law of supply and demand and different levels on the buyer market. I'm not worried about the guys charging $100 for a design. If they were any good they'd get swamped before they knew what hit them, meaning they'd start raising prices fairly fast.

The simple fact that they have to put the low price in their board advertisments asking for work tells me the exact opposite. If they actually knew how to sell themselves, then they'd know how to create selling designs too. But they don't know either. Whenever their designs actually convert it's because of either luck, the client doing a lot of good pre-selling, or both. But it's definitely not due to their skills at creating well-converting designs.

snowdog · 01-23-2006, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toddler

It always kills me when I see 'designers' here offering work for super cheap.

It just seems like designers could make so much more money as affiliates promoting programs than they could designing for the programs. Couldn't these gallery submitters that make "quality galleries" make so much more than $35/gallery just by submitting the galleries themselves? Especially if they use the template more than once.

It seems that every affiliate program bends over backwards to provide you with everything you need...content, hosting. Why can't you make more money submitting galleries, yourself than buidling them for the program?

Or if you don't like the work of submitting galleries, outsource that?

It sometimes seems like there are people competing to be bottom feeders.

SilentKnight · 01-23-2006, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thinkx

so when we put $100 on the table and ask you to make a design its gonna be total crap cause you just want more?

wow thats a new approach

*scratching one of the list*

Do you always get the same cut of steak at the local meat shop for $15 as you do for $7.95?

Its called motivation. Obviously if you're not motivated enough to pay a designer what they're worth - why should someone be motivated to hand you their best product?

Although I always turn out good quality for paying customers, I'll go the extra mile for someone who acknowledges that.

sfera · 01-23-2006, 11:19 AM

yea its poeple who dont know that what u pay is what u get alway get sucked in to the prices

SilentKnight · 01-23-2006, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

But natural selection will get rid of these people, becasue the hardest person to fool these days is the guy with a credit card and $30 to spend on porn.

Very appropo summation.

DamageX · 01-23-2006, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snowdog

It just seems like designers could make so much more money as affiliates promoting programs than they could designing for the programs. Couldn't these gallery submitters that make "quality galleries" make so much more than $35/gallery just by submitting the galleries themselves? Especially if they use the template more than once.

It seems that every affiliate program bends over backwards to provide you with everything you need...content, hosting. Why can't you make more money submitting galleries, yourself than buidling them for the program?

Or if you don't like the work of submitting galleries, outsource that?

It sometimes seems like there are people competing to be bottom feeders.

And that's exactly the case, for many. Few actually know how to sell.

01-20-2006, 05:45 AM	#56
Egomancer Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bucharest, Romania Posts: 2,074	You all must be aware of a simple thing: in the internet related domanin we have a global market. This means that people from all over the world compete for the same resources (money). This means that the market regualtes itself globally (meaning that the salaries in the 3rd world coutries increase and the salaries in USD ans EU will either decrease either there will be a lot of unemployeed people). In other words: you get what you pay for. A well established company from any country in the world will ask you more money for a high quality design than a company that still has to prove that can make designs. Moving to this case: from the designers point of view it is normal to assign less developemtn time for a design that pays 100$ than for a design that pays 600$. Or if I have more designers I assign the best for the 600$ one and the worst for the 100$. I am new in the porn industry but I am running a succesfull business in software development for almost 6 years now. From my past experience I can tell you only one thing: do the things right and you will succeed in ANY business. You do not need to be better than the best, hell, you do not need to be as good as the best. All you need is to be as good or a little better than the average and you will make money. Egomancer __________________ ICQ: 95-239-282 WWW: www.webprogrammers.eu WWW:www.seodev.eu Y!MSN: lord_ender If you want to outsource any work to Romania - here I am !!!! www.anotheranime.com \| www.autotrafic.ro \| www.jocurionline.ro

01-20-2006, 06:09 AM	#59
sweetcuties Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Somewhere Posts: 5,859	My guy charges $35 I think per gallery... I buy in bulk. I glady pay because his gal's kick ass __________________

01-20-2006, 06:10 AM	#60
Egomancer Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bucharest, Romania Posts: 2,074	You shoul duse 'cheapp markets' not uneducated. Being uneducated means that they are not able to do the job that needs education (training). The funny thing is that I started as an outsourcer and in 6 years I got to get local work and outsource it to cheap markets. So basically I switched places. All that I can say is that life is ironic! Egomancer __________________ ICQ: 95-239-282 WWW: www.webprogrammers.eu WWW:www.seodev.eu Y!MSN: lord_ender If you want to outsource any work to Romania - here I am !!!! www.anotheranime.com \| www.autotrafic.ro \| www.jocurionline.ro

01-20-2006, 06:10 AM	#61
Veterans Day Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: The Windy City Posts: 8,403	best converting design for me when I used to push adult sites was shit that looked like it cost 12 bucks __________________ Build a Massive Traffic Network, Hands FREE, Totally Automated

01-20-2006, 06:12 AM	#62
Egomancer Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bucharest, Romania Posts: 2,074	35$ for a TGP? Hmm, I charge one of my present clients 1.5$ per gallery, but the work is not exactly top of the line. The guy knows it, I know it, but when I make him like 1000-2000 galleries per month I do not think that I can handle so many at the 35$ price (and consequently quality). As long as the request meets the demand and everybody is happy then all is fine! Egomancer __________________ ICQ: 95-239-282 WWW: www.webprogrammers.eu WWW:www.seodev.eu Y!MSN: lord_ender If you want to outsource any work to Romania - here I am !!!! www.anotheranime.com \| www.autotrafic.ro \| www.jocurionline.ro Last edited by Egomancer; 01-20-2006 at 06:14 AM..

01-20-2006, 05:25 AM	#55
bhutocracy Not making A Comeback Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 10,218	anyways.. you guys should try dabbling in a less educated market where clients aren't exposed directly to the whole international market of prices.

01-20-2006, 06:12 AM	#63
mongoman Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 46	Hell a $600 dollar job is not worth getting out of bed for. Average contract for me is $8500. But then they are typically mainstream full dynamic sites. Don't know how a designer can talk with someone abou what they want and make it for $100, since that is 1 hour of billable time.

01-20-2006, 06:16 AM	#65
Egomancer Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bucharest, Romania Posts: 2,074	Bhuto - ok, then I suppose you are right! Egomancer __________________ ICQ: 95-239-282 WWW: www.webprogrammers.eu WWW:www.seodev.eu Y!MSN: lord_ender If you want to outsource any work to Romania - here I am !!!! www.anotheranime.com \| www.autotrafic.ro \| www.jocurionline.ro

01-20-2006, 06:39 AM	#68
Egomancer Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bucharest, Romania Posts: 2,074	Lady, try to make 2000 FGHs per month at a top quality and we talk after that. Not to mention that you need to pay for that ;) Egomancer __________________ ICQ: 95-239-282 WWW: www.webprogrammers.eu WWW:www.seodev.eu Y!MSN: lord_ender If you want to outsource any work to Romania - here I am !!!! www.anotheranime.com \| www.autotrafic.ro \| www.jocurionline.ro

01-20-2006, 06:44 AM	#71
Egomancer Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bucharest, Romania Posts: 2,074	Correct! Egomancer __________________ ICQ: 95-239-282 WWW: www.webprogrammers.eu WWW:www.seodev.eu Y!MSN: lord_ender If you want to outsource any work to Romania - here I am !!!! www.anotheranime.com \| www.autotrafic.ro \| www.jocurionline.ro

01-20-2006, 06:51 AM	#78
Egomancer Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bucharest, Romania Posts: 2,074	Lady, these are different demands, I mean he wants tons of pages sumary designed while you do pages that have more work put in them. Of course I think I can handle more advanced work but first I want to know the basics, only after you get to more evolved things. Doing this I do not risk to blow my entire business up because I start doing things I do not know how to complete and destroy my client base. Egomancer P.S. I do not think that we compete for the same jobs ;) __________________ ICQ: 95-239-282 WWW: www.webprogrammers.eu WWW:www.seodev.eu Y!MSN: lord_ender If you want to outsource any work to Romania - here I am !!!! www.anotheranime.com \| www.autotrafic.ro \| www.jocurionline.ro

01-20-2006, 07:04 AM	#81
Egomancer Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bucharest, Romania Posts: 2,074	Grunt salary is 300$ - 350$ but you need to pay taxes (which add 300 more). After that you have to pay the fixed expenses (150 USD at least) so you get very close to 1000$. Add my profit and you see that such a worker needs to do a lot of things to earn his money for a living. If the salaries have been lower then I would made the things even cheaper ;). Egomancer __________________ ICQ: 95-239-282 WWW: www.webprogrammers.eu WWW:www.seodev.eu Y!MSN: lord_ender If you want to outsource any work to Romania - here I am !!!! www.anotheranime.com \| www.autotrafic.ro \| www.jocurionline.ro

01-20-2006, 10:38 AM	#84
pornguy Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Homeless Posts: 62,912	the thing that gets me when someone wants us to make a stie, mainstream or not, they say we want it to look like this this and this. we try to explain what they not want to use this this and this, and they demand it. They pay the price, and then balme us because things dont sell. __________________ PornGuy skype me pornguy_epic AmateurDough The Hottes Shemales online! TChicks.com \| Angeles Cid \| Mariana Cordoba \| MAILERS WELCOME!

01-20-2006, 12:02 PM	#88
eroswebmaster March 1st, 2003 Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Seat 4 @ Venetian Poker Room Posts: 20,295	Let me qualify once again my statements in this thread are solely based upon my experience as a bulk gallery maker. For those who do more than just bang out galleries, your experiences of course vary and my comments don't necessarily apply to you. __________________ For rent - ICQ 127-027-910 Click here for more details

01-21-2006, 01:20 AM	#90
Paul Markham Too old to care Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: On the sofa, watching TV or doing my jigsaws. Posts: 52,943	This sector of the porn industry started out very easily, most people were amazed there was even porn on the Internet. What was available was pretty poor, look at some of my posts from 2001 about the standard of content. Everything was about traffic and the scramble to get it. Today many are realising that traffic is not enough, you have to convert it. Design and content does the converting. So some sites are realising that while it's important to keep the traffic flow up converting it is even more important. Simply because by having good conversions you keep getting good traffic. So more and more sponsors are looking for better designs and content. The fly in the ointment is many still think they should pay the same momeny to a professional with talent as they pay to a monkey with a keyboard or camera. But natural selection will get rid of these people, becasue the hardest person to fool these days is the guy with a credit card and $30 to spend on porn. __________________ Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500. PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

01-21-2006, 02:44 AM	#91
toddler Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: austin, tx Posts: 1,911	It always kills me when I see 'designers' here offering work for super cheap. Doing so just causes a never ending spiral of cheapness. Diminishing returns if you will. And they are only hurting themselves. We have standard packages, and the bare minimum is $500, and thats for a simple logo. We usually have plenty of work too. It always makes me happy when a customer likes the work so much that they overpay. Its happened a couple of times now, where we've gotten another 50% of the job as a tip. Treat your customers with respect, charge what your time is worth, and work well and efficiently and you won't have problems. Pricing yourselves into obscurity in the negative sense is just bad business. __________________ http://www.flickr.com/photos/zoddler/

01-23-2006, 11:19 AM	#96
sfera Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: ICQ: 248877409 Posts: 8,597	yea its poeple who dont know that what u pay is what u get alway get sucked in to the prices