Phoenix

what it was was showin by someone else before...there is even a missing product form a local airforce base..it eludes me to what it was called though.



however...good point...if in deed a big ass jumbo jet crashed into that spot..what are the small things doing still around..parking signs etc

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Phoenix

the plane/missile hit the outside of the building right?
how many no parking signs are located on the inside of buildings?
think about that

is there now multpile locations of impact?

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CheeseFrog

Oh wow, you're right -- it wasn't a plane that made that small hole in the wall. Here's proof.

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Dirty F

Ahaha yeah didnt even think of that. Good point.

Just another small detail these idiots forget.

CheeseFrog

Yes there is. See above link.

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Dirty F

Look the government quickly planted a part of a plane on the grass.

Dirty F

Looks like your hole is from the landing gear. Almost as good as a missile!

Landing gear, missile, whatever..same thing right.

Dollarmansteve

You are familiar with the Pentagon, correct? That it is actually 5 pentagon shaped rings, essentially 5 seperate buildings. In between these buildings are large spaces.. like courtyards.. with grass and parking lots, etc. There are many photos, satellite and otherwise where you can see this. The crashed plane penetrated I think 3 of these rings. So yes, there are parking signs on 'the inside' of buildings, in between buildings to be exact. and Yes, there would be multiple locations of impact.

I will say again that the picture is not of the impact of the outer wall of the pentagon.

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Dirty F

Haha now they are both gone.

I understand though, mistaking a landing gear with a missile is slightly..err..retarded.

Dirty F

Hey lets continue this, it was just starting to get funny.

r0x0r

FYI: This image is from the other side of the hole in the pentagon, not the side where the plane "entrered"

as explained here: http://www.elchulo.net/files/pentagon.swf

Dirty F

Thanks for clearing that up. It surely makes those idiots look real goddamn stupid. And instead of saying "hey i fucked up" they dissapear and act as if nothing happend.

ANYBODY can see when comparing the 2 pics that the hole pic wasnt from the part of the Pentagon where the plane entered. Like anybody with a brain. Only conspiracy idiots so sucked up by the lies of the morons who built those sites would deny it.

Dirty F

God, i really cant get over it. How stupid can you get!

Dirty F

Holy shit, i was about to watch that vid and it also a conspiracy idiot moron theory....aargh...will it ever stop!

Dirty F

Ok, a few mins in the vid (thats when i stopped watching) you'll see a pic from above the Pentagon which clearly shows the hole on the inside of the building. It has nothing to do with the outside or the plane entering.

Phoenix and that other dude: You two are officially retarded. Seriously. It was clear from the moment i saw those pics but hey you 2 knew better. It was where the plane entered. And while the outside of the Pentagon looks totally different, it didnt for Phoenix. A 10 yr old kid could point out the differences but Phoenix couldnt.

Unbelievable.

r0x0r

this image should clear things up
members.shaw.ca/freedomsix/pics/punchout-path.jpg
somebody please hotling the image
(can't post the image because of the 'You are only allowed to post URLs to other sites after you have made 30 posts or more.' ...)

imafuckingaussie

I think its important to keep an open mind, people need to stop being so defensive and look at the stuff brought up by some of these 'theories'. Some may be far fetched, but there may be merit in others.
I downloaded "confronting the evidence-REOPEN 911" the other day off a torrent site and so far it raises some really ineresting questions, stuff that hasnt been brought up on here. I'm gonna get back on here when I've seen it all and and see if I can get some inteligent feedback regarding whats on there :-)

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Doctor Dre

Gosh... as much as I hate the current administration, I gotta say that you guys are fucking nutjobs... get over it... it's USELESS to debate this on the internet for ever, it won't change a single fucking thing

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Dirty F

Chkshit, why did you stop replying? Phoenix?

You two based a whole theory on a hole in a wall that you were SURE of was caused by the plane hitting the Pentagon.

Dont you feel very, very silly now?

imafuckingaussie

Video was pretty cool, sure those guys on here messed up that pic, but your missing all the other details that are odd to say the least. Some of the stuff brought up is pretty sickening. For instance the massive amoount of toxic gasses in the air after the collapses, and the EPA who are a fucking joke, stating that the air is clean to breathe, 3 days after the collapse!! This is after 400,000 pounds of lead, 200,000 pounds asbestos,10,000+ flourescents lights with enough mercury contaminate 2500 city blocks. All this shit in the air and they say it was safe to breathe? Now half the rescue workers have respiratory illnesses, poor bastards!

Overall I think the odd stuff is:

Building 7 and why it just crumbled with no plane crash and steel framing, and the first time it would have EVER happened (fire causing steel building to crumble)

The odd flashes that occured at the front of both planes crashing into towers, not reflections as they are seen on each angled camera. Again, really odd and on BOTH planes not just one.

Re the pentagon, hard to say, some odditites, thats the first time I've ever seen a pic with some plane wreckage near the pentagon, odd that theres no more vision of it at all though.

Theres some very smart people backing up these accusations and ideas etc. they dont just seem like conspiracy loonies and I think its a bit stupid just to stick it all in the "stupid conspiracy loonies" pigeonhole.

Get the movie, its free on dvd reopen911.org/, sure the site does come across a bit over the top, but save your judgement until u see the movie and its an interesting watch, who knows what really happened, if all is as media tells us it is, I think its pretty naive to think that everything the govt and media says is true.

Back on my kangaroo back to my dialup 9.6k modem in my shed now.....

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Dirty F

No thanks, that small vid on the mainpage is the most retarded thing ive seen in a while. They are totally fucking clueless. And how serious can you take those idiots if even they use the hole pic as evidence. If i can find out on gfy that whole wasnt where the plane hit the Pentagon you have to wonder how much investigation they did. Sorry, but anyone taking any of their stuff serious is not too bright.

Matt_WildCash

Not taking sides or anything, just enjoying the discussion and interesting stories of both sides.

http://www.voltairenet.org/IMG/swf/pentagon_en.swf

Watch half way through this, it shows the picture that everyone is saying is of another building. The way this video showed it, this picture was of the exit hole the plane made inside the 3rd or 4th tier of the Penegon walls (well inside the penagon.

Thanks for the interesting discussion guys I do enjoy a good conspiricy theory :-)

Matt

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spanky part 2

How did they plant those wheels from the plane next to my building right after the plane hit?

You fools don't have a fucking clue. I was there and saw it all with my own two eyes. I don't need any tinfoil hat wearing idiots, revising history for their financial gain.

You all need to get a fucking life and start worrying about things you can change. Like maybe the US teens getting killed everyday in Iraq for the corporate gains of exxon/mobile and haliburton.

Dirty F

You saw it happening?

Dirty F

Please give us some details so those idiots can shut up about it...forever.

Phoenix

nope i stillcontend that something fishy happened that day..not just a bunchof terrorists flying planes around.

something fishy, not like hanks herring

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chshkt

well i'm sorry that i caught up on the "no-plane" theory... but i doubt that it was the 757

The "no plane" hoaxes discredit 9/11 skepticism and distract from evidence of complicity.


"No plane at the Pentagon" has been the most popular hoax, and has been promoted the longest (since a few weeks after 9/11).

The eyewitness testimony and the physical evidence disproves the "Flight 77 didn't hit the Pentagon" claims. Hundreds of people saw the plane from numerous vantage points. Photos of the impact zone show how the plane struck the first and second floors of the building. There are photos of plane debris in the wreckage.

Some websites try to make the issue of official complicity dependent on the "no plane" myth (some state there was complicity, others oppose the idea), but this is a red herring tactic. It is a big clue that the media efforts to discredit 9/11 skeptics focus on this claim (the absence of Flight 77) while ignoring evidence proven beyond reasonable doubt. Some probable disinformation efforts promoting hoaxes allegedly proving complicity focus on "no plane" and ignore other claims that actually have solid evidence (why the trillion dollar Air Force did not defend its headquarters).

None of the "no Boeing" theorists have explained why the perpetrators would have risked certain exposure by a bystander capturing video of something that wasn't a Boeing 757. Video footage from nearby surveillance cameras was immediately seized by the FBI. Workers at a nearby hotel did get to see their film (prior to its impoundment) and did not report seeing anything other than a plane hitting the Pentagon. Keeping the film footage secret allows extreme speculation to flourish, which serves the interests of the plotters.

A growing number of 9/11 skeptics have realized the "no 757" story was spread to discredit / distract us. It's a tempting theory in some ways, but if you trace the story back, there's no reality to it. Photoshopped images, claims by anonymous people on the web, a blatant disregard of all of the evidence -- these and more mental gymnastics are necessary to believe "no 757."

No judge, newspaper editor or political activist can use this sort of non-existent evidence to justify any of the "no plane" theories.

"No Planes" has been the most effective means to discredit issues of complicity inside the Beltway, both for the overwhelming majority who vote against Bush and the high level military and civilian officials who had too much personal experience with plane parts -- or friends who saw the plane and/or plane parts -- to buy this hoax.

There will never be complete agreement in the 9/11 truth movement given the widely varying quality of standards used by different people, the complete lack of peer review, and the presence of hoaxers trying to keep people off balance. It's more productive to persuade people outside the "truth movement" about the best evidence, and caution them about the hoaxes. There is zero evidence for any of the "no planes" claims for the Pentagon. All of the publications, websites, etc that argue for this use crappy sources and / or distortions of the evidence.

This hoax shows the limitations of doing research on the web about highly controversial topics with enormous political stakes. While the internet, and search engines, are an incredible invention that allows access to a huge collection of knowledge, they are also imperfect means of discovering the truth due to the ease that fake websites can be created and the reality that not all of human experience is archived in google.com With the Pentagon crash, some of the witnesses did tell the media that they saw the plane, but many more were not interviewed. Therefore, instant experts writing about this issue from several time zones away who ignore the need for some on-the-ground investigation (and ignore the fact that all of the photos do indeed show a 757 sized impact zone on the outside of the Pentagon) are likely to make serious mistakes. But even just using the media quoted comments, the fact of the plane crash becomes obvious and irrefutable.

Some of those promoting the no plane stories insult the eyewitnesses by claiming they are unreliable, had a poor view of the events, or are in great disagreement (when they were not). It is interesting that there weren't any witnesses who saw a truck bomb, a missile, a global hawk, an F-15 or a flying saucer piloted by giant lizards. Some people got a very good view of it, others had a brief glimpse.

The no Boeing stories imply that the witnesses across Arlington County, especially those on the roads nearby the Pentagon, were part of the coverup, which is a great technique for alienating people in the Washington region. The people who saw the plane told their families, friends, co-workers, etc about the fact they'd seen a major, shocking, historical event (wouldn't you if you saw something like that?).

The"no plane" claims distract from evidence of complicity that is "hidden in plain sight" -- the Pentagon was struck in the nearly empty, recently reconstructed and strengthened sector. The alleged hijacker flunked out of flight school and even an expert pilot would not have chosen to fly the plane in a 270 degree spiral to hit the side of the least populated part of the Pentagon. Why would al-Qaida perform this bizarre flight maneuver to reduce damage the building. Who would have chosen to fly in a spiral around the building to hit the one place that would minimize casualties while maximizing the "shock and awe" of the event? Was the plane guided by remote control technology (which is commercially available)?

Why did the Trillion Dollar Air Force not defend its own headquarters, even after the second plane crash into the World Trade Center? The fighter planes that were scrambled from the Norfolk Virginia area after the WTC was hit, before the Pentagon strike, flew east over the Atlantic Ocean instead of northwest toward DC -- an "error" that has not been explained but could be related to "wargames" that apparently inserted fake blips into radar screens. Perhaps a future, authentic, independent investigation with subpoena power will examine the role of the war game exercises in confusing the military response to the hijackings.

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AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE

What? They are broadcasting that and the Islamic people over there are not protesting it?

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ronbotx

Popular Mechanics provided a good analysis. I especially like this part:


"CLAIM: Conspiracy theorists insist there was no plane wreckage at the Pentagon. "In reality, a Boeing 757 was never found," claims pentagonstrike.co.uk, which asks the question, "What hit the Pentagon on 9/11?"

FACT: Blast expert Allyn E. Kilsheimer was the first structural engineer to arrive at the Pentagon after the crash and helped coordinate the emergency response. "It was absolutely a plane, and I'll tell you why," says Kilsheimer, CEO of KCE Structural Engineers PC, Washington, D.C. "I saw the marks of the plane wing on the face of the building. I picked up parts of the plane with the airline markings on them. I held in my hand the tail section of the plane, and I found the black box." Kilsheimer's eyewitness account is backed up by photos of plane wreckage inside and outside the building. Kilsheimer adds: "I held parts of uniforms from crew members in my hands, including body parts. Okay?"

************************************************** ***
Why are the biggest conspiracy theorists... foreigners? In this case a kid from Bulgaria and putz from Canada.

Chksht has never even been to the US and much less the Pentagon. His only skill is reposting crappola from the internet which has been shown to be 98% wrong... (e.g. 20+ indictments in Valerie Plame case). Phoenix seems to yet another Bush hating Canadian..... how unique.

By the way chksht, have you even completed college and if so what is your degree in.. and how old are you? My guess is 20.

Why don't you take this crap to DailyKos and DemocraticUnderground where just about everyone buys this BS? If anything goes wrong anywhere, just blame Bush.

chshkt

What? They are broadcasting that and the Islamic people over there are not protesting it?

Why should they protest? They want to learn the truth as well.

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born4porn

thanks, I missed it, I'll check it out now!

ronbotx

From the popular mechanics article...


AFTERMATH: Wreckage from Flight 77 on the Pentagon?s lawn--proof that a passenger plane, not a missile, hit the building. PHOTOGRAPH BY AP/WIDE WORLD PHOTOS

http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie...tml?page=6&c=y

ronbotx

HQ ATTACK: Taken three days after 9/11, this photo shows the extent of the damage to the Pentagon, consistent with a fiery plane crash. PHOTOGRAPH BY DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE

http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie...tml?page=6&c=y

ronbotx

And bullsht's key photo:.. Do you feel stupid for even listening to this moron?????


HOLE TRUTH: Flight 77?s landing gear punched a 12-ft. hole into the Pentagon?s Ring C. PHOTOGRAPH BY DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE

"Big Plane, Small Holes
CLAIM: Two holes were visible in the Pentagon immediately after the attack: a 75-ft.-wide entry hole in the building's exterior wall, and a 16-ft.-wide hole in Ring C, the Pentagon's middle ring. Conspiracy theorists claim both holes are far too small to have been made by a Boeing 757. "How does a plane 125 ft. wide and 155 ft. long fit into a hole which is only 16 ft. across?" asks reopen911.org, a Web site "dedicated to discovering the bottom line truth to what really occurred on September 11, 2001."

The truth is of even less importance to French author Thierry Meyssan, whose baseless assertions are fodder for even mainstream European and Middle Eastern media. In his book The Big Lie, Meyssan concludes that the Pentagon was struck by a satellite-guided missile--part of an elaborate U.S. military coup. "This attack," he writes, "could only be committed by United States military personnel against other U.S. military personnel."

FACT: When American Airlines Flight 77 hit the Pentagon's exterior wall, Ring E, it created a hole approximately 75 ft. wide, according to the ASCE Pentagon Building Performance Report. The exterior facade collapsed about 20 minutes after impact, but ASCE based its measurements of the original hole on the number of first-floor support columns that were destroyed or damaged. Computer simulations confirmed the findings.

Why wasn't the hole as wide as a 757's 124-ft.-10-in. wingspan? A crashing jet doesn't punch a cartoon-like outline of itself into a reinforced concrete building, says ASCE team member Mete Sozen, a professor of structural engineering at Purdue University. In this case, one wing hit the ground; the other was sheared off by the force of the impact with the Pentagon's load-bearing columns, explains Sozen, who specializes in the behavior of concrete buildings. What was left of the plane flowed into the structure in a state closer to a liquid than a solid mass. "If you expected the entire wing to cut into the building," Sozen tells PM, "it didn't happen."

The tidy hole in Ring C was 12 ft. wide--not 16 ft. ASCE concludes it was made by the jet's landing gear, not by the fuselage. "

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE

The conspiracy theory is simply nothing more than to divert attention from the fanatics that did it.

Islamic Fundamentalists.

With a supposed 25% take of the human population I am sure there are a few that would fund matters to raise doubt about the fact that Islamic Mother fuckers did this to America to intimidate a free people.

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chshkt

Experts Claim Official 9/11 Story is a Hoax
http://news.yahoo.com/s/prweb/200601.../prweb339303_5

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spanky part 2

Some of us were there during the whole thing, not seeing it on tv like the rest of the conspiracy theory idiots.

My loft was 2 blocks away and after the first one hit my only thought was to get to my son 6 blocks away.

Yes I saw it all, the people jumping from the building and hitting the ground, The 2nd building falling, the carnage afterwards.

and best of all the people months later taking pictures in front of the rubble saying "smile". My bet is that these people are the same ones that voted our president in for a second miserable term.

chshkt

so didn't you saw that it was a controlled demolution?
did you saw building 7 being pulled?

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chshkt

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spanky part 2

This bs about there being a missile and no plane and shit. I can remember when my neighbor ran up to me with terror in her face saying a missile hit the wtc. Maybe that is the missile everyone is talking about. then again she was crazy with fear and we were all trying to figure out what the fuck was going on.

I get so sick of people who don't know a damn thing about this and weren't anywhere near telling "me " and my friends what we saw.

What I saw was pure hell. People making a choice of burning to death or jumping 90+ stories holding their friends hands and flapping their hands like wings. What I saw was policemen running away and pushing women down that were in their way, as firefighters were going into certain death.
What I saw was body parts in front of what was my home.
I also saw 3 months later, was metal parts still coming out of the "pit" still steaming from heat when they washed them down. I saw the working stop everytime they found another body, drape it with a coffin, make two lines and salute as they were taken away.

So you conspiracy fucks can kiss my alive white ass, and my loving families too.

spanky part 2

Building seven housed the bunker for the mayor and also housed thousands of gallons of diesel fuel inside the building. Not in the basement, but in the building itself. Hmmmm fire, heat, and diesel fuel. I wonder why it burnt down. Do you have any other smart ideas, or are they all that fucking stupid.

ronbotx

FACT: chshkt has no clue.....

The aerial photo of massive damage to the Pentagon and the aircraft debris on the ground and still you persist with another set of "experts". We would have better luck arguing with a rock.

The only thing more pathetic than you are those that think you're credible...
I give up.

chshkt

This bs about there being a missile and no plane and shit. I can remember when my neighbor ran up to me with terror in her face saying a missile hit the wtc. Maybe that is the missile everyone is talking about. then again she was crazy with fear and we were all trying to figure out what the fuck was going on.

I get so sick of people who don't know a damn thing about this and weren't anywhere near telling "me " and my friends what we saw.

What I saw was pure hell. People making a choice of burning to death or jumping 90+ stories holding their friends hands and flapping their hands like wings. What I saw was policemen running away and pushing women down that were in their way, as firefighters were going into certain death.
What I saw was body parts in front of what was my home.
I also saw 3 months later, was metal parts still coming out of the "pit" still steaming from heat when they washed them down. I saw the working stop everytime they found another body, drape it with a coffin, make two lines and salute as they were taken away.

So you conspiracy fucks can kiss my alive white ass, and my loving families too.

We all saw the terror live on TV! Tell us something else! Do you have any idea how many evidences are there against the official 9/11 comission bullshit.

Wake up and see the truth - government inside job!

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chshkt

why the stupid quote thing doesn't work!!

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spanky part 2

You don't even see the irony in your post.

You saw it "live" on tv. I saw it "live" with my own eyes while running for my life. Now who do you think is better informed?

I just gave you facts about why building 7 burnt down. You gave me some stupid fucking theory.

spanky part 2

p.s. I take it, basic english isn't something you have mastered yet.

Why do I think you live in your moms basement.

Dirty F

chshkt, you are the biggest fucking idiot moron posting on this board atm. Jesus, you are totally fucked in the head. How fucking old are you? 14 or what?

Fucking retard.

chshkt

LEASING THE WTC COMPLEX SHOULD HAVE BEEN A FINANCIAL DISASTER:
Larry Silverstein leased this property even though it was well known within the industry that the WTC1
and WTC2 had been constructed with asbestos fire retardant coating on the internal steel structure.
Asbestos coated all columns up to the 64th floors, only switching to a less effective and non-toxic
product in 1971 when New York City banned the use of asbestos as a building material. Asbestos is
now known to be an extremely toxic carcinogen, and would eventually have to have been remediated at
a cost that would surely have exceeded the buildings resale value.

HOWEVER, LEASING THE WTC COMPLEX BECAME A FINANCIAL WINDFALL:
After signing the lease, Larry Silverstein promptly increased the insurance on these buildings to $7.2
billion; double their purchase price prior to the attack. After their destruction, the potential white
elephant complex became an instant double-your-money windfall to the tune of a 3.5 billion in pure
profit to Silverstein. A wise sage once said, always follow the money trail.

CONTROLLED DEMOLITION PREPARATION PROCESS:
Preparing a structure like the 47 story WTC7 building for controlled demolition requires specially trained
demolition experts, complete building blueprints, specialized explosive charges, remote control
detonators, and many weeks to plan and actually install the explosives and wire them. This is no spur
of the moment project that can just be thrown together in a few hours - and a few hours was all that
expired from the initial attack to the demolition of WTC7. There is no doubt WTC7 was destroyed by a
controlled demolition, so the question that remains glaringly unanswered is, when was this building
wired for destruction, by whom, and for what purpose. Video Clips:
Real time video of WTC collapse: http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IM...7_Collapse.wmv
With Dan Rather?s comments: http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IM...ocked.down.wmv

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chshkt

WTC OWNER ADMITS TO CONTROLLED DEMOLITION OF BUILDING SEVEN:

There is an incredibly self-incriminating video interview with Larry Silverstein wherein he stated that he decided Building Seven would have to be ?pulled? to prevent any further loss of life, and so they ?pulled it?. Pulling a structure is common industry terminology for a controlled demolition. A copy of this interview video available on request. This ?pulled? 47-story building then collapsed exactly as WTC1 and WTC2 had. Mr. Silverstein has since refused to comment on this issue.
TRANSCRIPT:
?I remember getting a call from the, er, fire department commander, telling me that they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the fire, and I said, "We've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it." And they made that decision to pull and we watched the building collapse.?
Video Clip: www.infowars.com/Video/911/wtc7_pbs.WMV
- Larry Silverstein
- CEO Silverstein Properties, Inc.
The lease of WTC1 and WTC2 was purchased by Larry Silverstein, an extremely savvy NYC real
estate mogul, three months before the attack for a cost of 3.2 billion to be paid to the NYC Port
Authority over 99 years. Silverstein was the original owner of WTC7, and is the current owner of the
soon to be completed Building 7. http://www.silversteinproperties.com/management.htm)

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