andrej_NDC

gift cards increased the number of transactions and lowered CHB % at the same time. If you make 5 CHBs from 500 transactions, you are at 1%, 500 more "fake" transactions and you are at 0.5%

Trax

i know a few people that are fuckin pissed right now
a thread like this is rare
and so many people keep quiet

EdgeXXX

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Shap

You bet.

greenlab

Tom...lets say that in 1 month paycom processes 100.000 new joins and with those 100.000 joins, some 50.000 cross sales are created. So at the end of the month paycom will have 150.000 transactions, where they are allowed 1% chargebacks and namely 1500 transactions, or 1% in the total transaction volume.

Now let's say that all 100.000 new joins were offered a free Gift Subscription to a xyz website and "in order to process your gift membership" a Epassporte Visa Gift card was creeated for them and so on (the cards gets credited for the gift membership ammount and then in 20 sec gets debited....etc).
Now, at the end of the month paycom will have 250.000 transactions (100.000 new joins + 50.000 crosssales + 100.000 Visa Gift cards), so the allowed chargeback volume will be almost double (2500 instead of 1500 without the Gift cards that got runned trough the system).

ThumbLord

have to agree with Trax

Shap

Yeah Edge we all knew that was coming. I wish I could travel 1% as much as Chris does.

Rui

Your replies on this thread make me want to stab you (after telling me what you know)

Shap

Man if that is the case and if Paycom hasn't been working on it since the split shit is going to hit the fan. It is absolutely impossible that paycom is at 0.5% overall. IMPOSSIBLE! And if they aren't then the epass split could send them over 1% very quickly.

andrej_NDC

my explanation was shorter lol

Jace

you know, I was kind of waiting for someone to notice that shit.....some funny shit right there

wm_cibi

Sponsored by CCBill, the #1 online billing solution.

Trax

who wouldn't
jk

Shap

Greenlab should get a % from Ccbill for all new sales these posts may have caused.

I have a feeling Ccbill is going to get a few calls tomorrow morning from some paycom clients.

Kimmykim

Sigh...

Frankly, this doesn't mean the sky is falling for either company if you take it at face value. It certainly doesn't mean the demise of Paycom due to chargeback threshholds or anything else. With the way that Visa monitoring is set up these days, if a Paycom or CCBill client is over on their chargebacks, they can be split out and terminated without it affecting the overall portfolio.

As to clients leaving one processor and going to another, anyone who uses an IPSP should realize they do not own their client base at the end of the day -- their processor does. So if you move from Paycom to CCBill or vice versa, you don't just pick up the customer card numbers and move the rebills over. Pretty much the only way that rebills ever get moved is when a processor goes out of business (like Digiblaze or WSB) or has payment issues to the point that their larger customers got bank approval (and had contractually obligated the processor) to do a move, like IBill.

I was in the Paycom office on Friday, and part of the conversation that I had with Esther and Joel was in reference to the fact that a lot of clients don't know who their current sales rep may be. Previously each account had one rep assigned to it, and if your rep wasn't around, it was very difficult to get quick service. I've been told their new system assigns a primary and a secondary rep to each account, and that clients are being contacted directly with this information. Frank has moved into sales, they've added a rep that speaks something like 5 languages fluently, and Anthony and Amanda are still working hard as usual. As I say, they tell me they are contacting clients directly, there is not a mass email being sent out with the re-assignments, since the reps are going to be familiar with the clients volume and product codes etc at the time they speak with the clients. I can imagine this is going to take a bit of time to get through, since there are bound to be thousands of clients.

From the development and launch of ePassporte, the two companies were always separate entities. Paycom had a contract to support certain functionalities of ePassporte, and that contract is now finished. Given the departure of Chris Mallick from Paycom, and his assumption of all the ownership of ePassporte, this really seems to be the final division of assets between the two companies.

While it may not make everyone happy, I don't think its any more complex of an issue, and we're certainly not going to find out who shot JR, who was on the grassy knoll or where Waldo really is from a simple announcement.

seeric

nothings changed for me either. i get my wires and i pay out my affils from that.

greenlab

I dont think someone should blame Epass or Paycom for this.
In my view it was a very smart business development for them and i give them thumbs up becouse they could do it.

I dont think that in the short term (1 year) paycom will be seriously affected.
Even if they split from Epass, i am sure they have a well written contract for the hubdreds of thousends of cards that got issued till now, so they can keep running transactions trough them at least till they expire...
-Also they can find some alternative sources where they can buy Visa gift cards and keep the bussines as usual, probably with a slight higher cost, but it still worth every penny.

Regarding Epassporte....they have their chance if they play it right and will be able to resolve thier issues with Visa. Epassporte is a VERY VERY powerfull bussiness tool, if they will be able to maintain a good relationship with visa....
epassporte will continue to issue gift cards not only to paycom, but to lots of other processors out there....they will and are pushing the ATM card as much as they can to Digital River and other mainstream cobranding agreements so they can keep a legitimate scope of business and also the ATM thing is becomming quite lucrative for them latelly.
Beeing said that, you will see customer service improvements in the next year to come (if epass solves visa issues).
Didnt you wonder why epass support was so horrible even after 3 years from the start ? This is becouse they didnt cared to much for this part till now...90% of their users were Gift Card users who didnt called them, big affiliate progs had their sales account representative in case they had a problem, and in rest, epass wasnt very preocupied in customer service as retail business was not one of their main objectives.
Epass can do a lot of things to make good $$$, and i belive that Cris is movig to the Casino/Gaming niche, in a very tricky/smart way : most online casinos have to send visa/mastercard transactions coded as "gambling" into the card processing systems. However most of the US banks decline such transactios that come from oversees, that's why you are not able to use you card at a lof of online casions and instead you are advertised the wire/netteller etc method of payment.
The trick is that you will be using your normal card to load and epassporte Virtual Visa Prepaid Card for let's say $1000. Epass will code the transaction as cash advance (making it very hard to dispute/chargeback) and issue you a visa loaded with $1000 issued by sknab bank....now the online casino will bill the Epass visa witch will not deny a "gambling" authorisation code...and it is a transaction that in 99% of the cases will not be able to be chargebacked.
This whole thing can be done instantlly, transparent to the user...

This is similar to what ibill does with their shitty GKard...in order to buy a membership trough ibill, you actually buy and load a GKard issued by Global Bank of Commerce In Antigua, and then ibill is billing that card for the membership.
For reference Gobal Bank of Commerce in Antigua is the same bank that issues the IKOBO cards and i strongly belive ikobo is a service run by the same people that run Global Bank of Commerce as one of the bank directors is also a Director at Ikobo .
In the end, the bank that issues the Epass cards (SKNAB) is the same bank Globill was using when claimed they will process without the visa fee.....

Rui

It just keeps getting better and better...

greenlab - mind telling what are your ties to the companies discussed.. lots of goodies you have been posting

Theo

I'm wondering how long will take for visa to adjust their regulations to protect their clients base from this loophole.

Aly

Nobody's 'booting' anyone, Shap; when the ownership of the two entities was split they had an agreement that Paycom would maintain certain services for a while, which was pretty decent of Paycom if you ask me... Now the contract has ended here's hoping ePassporte has it's ducks in a row... this isn't a surprise of any sort to them though so one would expect that they would.

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XfactoryOnline

we'll get over it

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Tom_PM

Ah ok, so any GC transactions would not be anything more than a "cancel" if the primary membership was CB'd. Was just curious about that.

I'm sure Aly is dead on. They're not going leave a huge loose end hanging on either side. Anywho, onward and upward

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SmokeyTheBear

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AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE

NO not a surprise to anyone of "THEM" but to the community and users it is.
I love how the proccessor's love to hide shit that is happening when real business folk oughtah know, well before hand. The current method is not enough Disclosure by any means.

There is still somthing I do not like about this, so I guess we will have to see how it plays out.

Green gets award for most intelligent posts on GFY for 2006 so far and I am writing down what he is saying.

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PMdave

contract beteen them ended... hmm ok. But why does paycom only sent out the mail the instant they stop paying to epassporte? Why didn't they give their clients a month notice? If all this was planned that only seems like a fair thing to do.

And if I was Chris mallick it wouldn't take me 3 days to get my hands on a computer, even if I was travelling the northpole. (unless I'd have anything to hide)

Rui

Chris does seem to care more about travelling than to address questions thats a given...

BradShaw

Paycom support has been horrid for a long time. But I did get a nice piece of Tumi luggage and some Bose headphones. CCbill treats us 10000x better, and only gets 10% of our business. Unfortunately with our business model, we have to be a big more aggressive then CCBILL will permit, or I would have been long gone long ago.

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Jace

wow, that is fucking scary to think about

Pornwolf

Wow, I thought I saw Brad Shaw.



Naaaah, it couldn't be. Not here. ;)

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Snake Doctor

Kimmy kind of beat me to this, but IMHO didn't emphasize this point enough.

The way chargebacks work these days is that they are monitored PER URL or PER COMPANY that paycom or ccbill processes for.
In the old days Visa and MC just looked at the IPSP's overall portfolio.

Ever since the new regs hit chargebacks are monitored company by company, NOT by the IPSP's overall portfolio.
So to suggest that Paycom was issuing epass giftcards for the sole purpose of lowering their chargeback percentage is absurd. (Although it was probably a great way to get epass cards in the hands of customers who buy our products)

Even if paycom's overall chargeback percentage is below half a percent, if ANY SINGLE CLIENT goes over the allowed threshhold that client is put on the warning list and given a finite time period to get things straightened out before they lose their ability to accept credit cards altogether.

This current development shouldn't affect paycom's chargeback ratio in any way shape or form, since epass and high risk credit card processing have always been two totally separate things.

*CLIFF NOTES*
The sky is not falling

uvort

Fuck that! http://www.metalcash.com ALWAYS pays via Epass!

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kristin

I wish greenlab would keep going ... there's more to the story.

I hope I have this right ... companies with CB issues would be able to keep going with the help of ePassporte. They would buy block of subscriptions to their own site at the end of the month if they were in CB trouble. So let's say XYZ company looks like they might be over. They would be contacted and they could purchase $100,000 (or whatever amount) worth of subscriptions that can't be chargebacked through ePassporte so all their numbers would balance out.

Pretty nice system huh?

So here's my thought ... all these companies that have bought their way out for the last few years ... now what?

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"Usually only fat guys have the kind of knowledge and ability that Kristin has."

willow

I'd be surprised if they could run any transaction without telling the bank or visa which client it was attached too. Therefore it's pretty simple, whenever you've got a big client doing things they shouldn't do and the money is too good to pass on, simply aim some of those gift card transactions at a specific client. I'm not saying this happens (legal disclaimer), but it's hardly a leap.

minimouse

A question a bit off topic...
Since I have a lot of money stacked in my epass account, did someone ever got a wire transfer from epass to their bank account?

Thanks.

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rowan

bump for an important thread

karlm

Interesting read

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Shap

That's great news that problem sites can be removed from a portfolio. What happens if a processor has a large amount of problem sites. Like Brad Shaw said he uses paycom for a reason. Paycom is able to manage risk and cbs like no other company right now. When (if) that changes that will be a major shake up for quite a few companies. The sky isn't falling but this could force some companies to re-evaluate their business model.

cica

anyone knows, if epassporte will renew my account now? it was suspended without any reason (only one was, that an account was created by sunnydollars...) to whom may I write an email now after owners changes?

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Matt Collins

Very interesting read...thanks Shap for working this thread!

A lot of this information is very important to know. Especially the discussion about the way chargebacks are calculated (and how this has changed over the last couple of years).

Am I correct in the notion that by monitoring chargebacks on the url or individual company level should help protect the processors from one bad customer killing the whole company (and thus all the compliant customers)?

What a great business thread...on GFY no less!!

Matt

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Theo

and very honest response

Rui

bump........

RogerV

LOL I dont need to read it I know exactly whats going on

I am in contact with both companies on a weekly basis.. I get first hand information not off a gossip board.

I wouldnt worry about either company nothing is going to change only get better

Doctor Dre

Paypal have got plenty of competition as far as ewallets goes.

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Doctor Dre

Actually let's say a sponsor has 240k of payments monthly... (that's 200 joins a day @ 40 bucks). That's 12 000 a month spent in fees... so an employe is definitly a LOT LOT LOT cheaper.

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justsexxx

Yeah you know everything, and everyone is your friend...

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rowan

As far as I know the 5% load fee only applies to personal accounts funded via CC. Business accounts are funded by wire.

Doctor Dre

How does it work for the wires then ? What are the fees ?

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FUCKuPAYme

You are an idot.. and yes I've been in the biz since 96 so I do know most everything and most in the biz who have been around are my friends.. I'm not someone who just posts on the boards.
Jealousy is a very nasty trait...
All you do is try to take jabs at me in every thread spend more time working and maybe you will know more as well

Dont be a hater

~R

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kristin

Business accounts are funded via wire ... bank takes their fee, but I don't think ePassporte takes a fee when you load the money on there. I could be wrong...we just have our transaction fee when we pay affiliates and such.

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"Usually only fat guys have the kind of knowledge and ability that Kristin has."

justsexxx

Lol, why post this with another nick? Also, I did not pick on you in every thread. And I'm not jealous as well. Why would I be jealous on you? Maybe you can fill me in

Thanks

Andre

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