Disband the Free Speech Coalition, Should we start our own? - GoFuckYourself.com

mikesouth · 08-02-2006, 01:13 PM

Lets Talk About The Free Speech Coalition:
(from todays www.mikesouth.com)

Michelle Freeridge, the Executive Director, is stepping down and the FSC is looking for someone to fill her shoes. Noe I don't know Michelle and I can't testify as to anything she may have or have not done during her time there.

In all of the stories about her departure it's always mentioned how little money the FSC gets and how little support from the industry and you know what? We don't support the FSC very well but then one must also ask the question why?

I think the reason is that by and large the Free Speech Coalition doesn't support us very well.

I have been around pretty much since the inception of the Free Speech Coalition and I can't name much that they have accomplished other than getting two record keeping cases set aside for secondary producers. That isn't anything that will win accolades from most porners, who happen to be primary producers.

The largest support bases are virtually ignored, performers and adult webmasters see little use for the FSC...Why? Because there is no value, no return on investment. Most webmasters agree that the current challenge to 2257 on behalf of secondary producers is more motivated by the fact that AVN is a secondary producer than it is anything to protect the adult web, and just what do performers get out of a membership? Nothing, that's what.

But is it the FSC's fault? You must first look at who the FSC is, ie a board of directors and many of the highest ranking people, as well as the largest monetary supporters are big porn companies, companies who have a vested interest in keeping pressure on the smaller companies and particularly on the adult web, so any progressive move to help in those areas is likely to get bogged down.

The Free Speech Coalition has become synonymous with inaction and ineptitude, I said a long time ago that if it really wants to be successful it must first rename and reinvent itself.

What I would like to see come out of the organization are some clearly defined goals here are some ideas for you guys:

Instead of trying to hire your own lobbyists, you should make it a priority to align yourself with better funded and more serious organizations like the ACLU, not to be a leech, but to give yourselves some clout.

Video as we know it is near extinction, the internet is the future of porn, if not the present. You best wake up to that fact and start making visible efforts to show adult webmasters that membership has it's benefits. Simply saying "we are your organization because we say we are now give us money" doesn't cut it. If you want money and support you must earn it. For example I would have no problem paying the FSC a thousand dollars a year if I knew that so long as I stayed within certain guidelines the FSC would be four square in my corner should I be prosecuted, that simply isn't the case, as of right now that money gets me nothing but an attaboy.

The FSC needs to hire Adella or someone like her to do it's PR. Outside the adult industry who has heard of 2257? Mainstream media pays it no attention because it just affects porners...or so they think. Explain to them how it allows the FBI to enter your home with no warrant, no probable cause and no due process so that they can hold you at gunpoint until you can prove you didn't commit a crime that never happened. If it can happen to us, it can happen to anyone.

You have to get performers involved and just like with everyone else that means you have to return something of value for the money, maybe its a group health plan, maybe its legal assistance or ongoing education or paralegal services or maybe you get together with AIM and offer discounted testing to FSC members. Whatever it is you have to do it, you won't survive without the performers.

Ok so there's a few ideas off the top of my head, I would hope that you can come up with some of your own. Chances are that whoever replaces Michelle will have read this, you have your work cut out for you, personaly I hope you succeed but I bet you won't. I bet the good old FSC runs business as usual, no plans, no goals just the give me money mentality that one finds in lazy strippers who feel they shouldn't have to earn it, it should simply be bestowed upon them.

OK FSC, PROVE ME WRONG....

And No Im not running for Executive Director, I am way too far away from Los Angeles even though I could do a better job than has been done in the past via telecommuting, don't believe me? Name 3 things the FSC has done that is worth 25.00 to you in all the last ten years combined. Go ahead...give it a shot.

woj · 08-02-2006, 01:22 PM

sig spot...

Daruma · 08-02-2006, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woj

sig spot...

dude nothing against your sig spot's but I think this one warrents closer attention

mike, as for what they have done - I've always wondered that even though I've sent them $ every year kinda like renewing my norton virus protection, to be honest not sure how many virus's they have protected me from to this point

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 08-02-2006, 01:30 PM

It's an example of Capitalism's inherent flaw.

There is no foundational structure required to defend. The only way is via a profit model. I have spoken to "FightThePatent" several times about method's that would more or less move the FSC to a profit model that's end result would defend us all.

It also dispoil's back to .XXX in one theoretical idea but it was not the only idea of a profit driven foundation that could defend our industry.

mikesouth · 08-02-2006, 01:31 PM

Thats my point...and i would expect that most everyone here agrees with you.

I was a card carrying paying member once. You know how many times they notified me of a meeting? how many meeting transcripts they sent me? how many press releases they sent me? NONE but soon as it came time for mty renewal, they didn't waste any time begging then....

I don't mind paying for a whore, but if you want my return business you best make "the juice worth the squeeze"

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 08-02-2006, 01:34 PM

The ACLU and ASaCP lacks a profit model as well.

They are flawed idea's. Good idea's but flawed.
And because of that weakness and peoples false faith that "It is working" allows us to become oppressed.

Daruma · 08-02-2006, 01:35 PM

and fear tactics

you don't pay = your not protected

sounds like business models of:

insurance business
antivirus programs
local bookie
etc.

mikesouth · 08-02-2006, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daruma

and fear tactics

you don't pay = your not protected

sounds like business models of:

insurance business
antivirus programs
local bookie
etc.

At least an insurance company will eventually live up to its responsibilities and the anti virus software will eventually remove your viruses even if it utilizes 80% of your cpu to continually do the protection...the FSC doesn't do shit....

Doctor Dre · 08-02-2006, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daruma

and fear tactics

you don't pay = your not protected

sounds like business models of:

insurance business
antivirus programs
local bookie
etc.

That's pretty much how america works. Money is king

CE_Rashaan · 08-02-2006, 02:20 PM

Some quick points...

FSC won a supreme court case in 2002 FSC vs. Ashcroft or vice versa. It was regarding the COPA ruling which tried to define any material that is simulated or appears to be underage be illegal. Basically if a 40 year old girl was acting out a role as a high school girl with pig tails that would be illegal. FSC struck that down.

Avn has no problem getting 2257 info from its advertisers thus they wont be bogged down by 2257 webmasters are the real targets. FSC's larger members actually didnt want the smaller webmasters to be protected, but FSC went ahead with the widespread injunction covering all members.

Not only does the FSC hire lobbyist, it has partnered with the ACLU and several other groups to further its cause. Actually they had the ACLU write an amicus brief regarding 2257

60% of america is on dial-up so the whole video side of the industry is done shit is ridiculous. Dont ever forget who really runs this industry, THE VIDEO SIDE

Mainstream media is very aware of 2257 in its original inception 2257 was going to encompass hollywood as well until there lobbying efforts changed the writing of the statue. They pay very close attention to 2257

Just some points to add...You have good intentions, but I think you need to do more research.

just my

polish_aristocrat · 08-02-2006, 02:27 PM

I can't comment on most of the things mentioned by the thread starter, but I can add that the FSC helped also to fight the .xxx domain proposal few months ago...

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 08-02-2006, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MatrixRashaan

Some quick points...

FSC won a supreme court case in 2002 FSC vs. Ashcroft or vice versa. It was regarding the COPA ruling which tried to define any material that is simulated or appears to be underage be illegal. Basically if a 40 year old girl was acting out a role as a high school girl with pig tails that would be illegal. FSC struck that down.

Avn has no problem getting 2257 info from its advertisers thus they wont be bogged down by 2257 webmasters are the real targets. FSC's larger members actually didnt want the smaller webmasters to be protected, but FSC went ahead with the widespread injunction covering all members.

Not only does the FSC hire lobbyist, it has partnered with the ACLU and several other groups to further its cause. Actually they had the ACLU write an amicus brief regarding 2257

60% of america is on dial-up so the whole video side of the industry is done shit is ridiculous. Dont ever forget who really runs this industry, THE VIDEO SIDE
Mainstream media is very aware of 2257 in its original inception 2257 was going to encompass hollywood as well until there lobbying efforts changed the writing of the statue. They pay very close attention to 2257

Just some points to add...You have good intentions, but I think you need to do more research.

just my

Fascinating.

Snake Doctor · 08-02-2006, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MatrixRashaan

Some quick points...

FSC won a supreme court case in 2002 FSC vs. Ashcroft or vice versa. It was regarding the COPA ruling which tried to define any material that is simulated or appears to be underage be illegal. Basically if a 40 year old girl was acting out a role as a high school girl with pig tails that would be illegal. FSC struck that down.

Avn has no problem getting 2257 info from its advertisers thus they wont be bogged down by 2257 webmasters are the real targets. FSC's larger members actually didnt want the smaller webmasters to be protected, but FSC went ahead with the widespread injunction covering all members.

Not only does the FSC hire lobbyist, it has partnered with the ACLU and several other groups to further its cause. Actually they had the ACLU write an amicus brief regarding 2257

60% of america is on dial-up so the whole video side of the industry is done shit is ridiculous. Dont ever forget who really runs this industry, THE VIDEO SIDE

Mainstream media is very aware of 2257 in its original inception 2257 was going to encompass hollywood as well until there lobbying efforts changed the writing of the statue. They pay very close attention to 2257

Just some points to add...You have good intentions, but I think you need to do more research.

just my

Good points.

mikesouth · 08-02-2006, 02:47 PM

Oh I did plenty of research you named one accomplishment the FSC made in over ten years, congrats...thats more than most can name but in the grand scheme of things was it worth the money you pay them?

And you think 2257 won't bog down AVN? do you have any idea how much paperwork that would be for one single issue? Its a huge issue for AVN, not to mention the fact that it makes AVN a very big target for the feds.

so the FSC has hired a lobbyist...yup i knew that but what exactly has this lobbyist done?

and the ACLU filed a brief...well thats a start I suppose but again, does it make it worth what it costs to join? and why isn't the ACLU a party in this suit? would it be because the FSC wants it all for themselves or because the ACLU chose not to be because there really isnt any solid alliance or just maybe because the FSC want to leech off of the ACLU and take all the glory while the ACLU spent all the money and did all the work...

You think video in its present form isnt a dinosaur...good...keep thinking that this biz needs thinning for sure.

Mainstream isn't at all aware of the real implications of 2257...you know why because to them its CP...why is it CP? because we in this biz make no concerted effort PR wise to disassociate ourselves from kiddie porners that's why

If im ED the first thing I do is make everyone a one year member for free
second is discount testing at AIM for fsc members, enough to offset the cost of the dues.

Then I start showing some results, doing some fund raisers and showing where the money is being spent

I start dialogue with the ACLU to strengthen a relationship there

I consult with them and PR the fuck out of anything we do together

I hire a good mainstream PR person to give mainstream news a slant on us that they can use and the first PR blitz will be to disassociate our industry from child pornography

how am I doing so far?

Barefootsies · 08-02-2006, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MatrixRashaan

Just some points to add...You have good intentions, but I think you need to do more research.

True dat.

jayeff · 08-02-2006, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikesouth

You must first look at who the FSC is

If I remember correctly, you posted in several of the same threads as I did, so you will recall I made many similar observations here a year ago. The main difference was that, since I was looking ahead, I was warning of what would be likely to happen.

My biggest objection then and now, to FSC claiming to be this industry's representative, is that it cannot be. FSC is an organization originally started to further the interests of video producers which, presumably for funding reasons, began trying to straddle other sectors. But "adult entertainment" is not a homogenous whole, it is merely a convenient shorthand to cover a variety of industry sectors which have entirely different priorities.

My second issue was more specific, namely that FSC, despite repeated declarations that they will try harder, make almost no effort to involve themselves in the community at large. Here, if it were not for FTP, non-members would rarely have a clue what they might be up to. If an organisation wants to represent an industry it must talk to that industry. Regularly and openly. Not as a service, but because that is how such an organisation gets support and members.

Finally though, the fault isn't really with FSC at all. Online porn needs a professional association, one which covers much more than just legal issues. But it is at least 5 years away from being ready for one. Self interest will naturally and always be everyone's prime concern, but by and large right now that is all there is and short-term thinking is the rule rather than the exception, with some of the industry's best-known names the worst culprits. So long as that prevails, neither FSC nor anyone else really has a chance.

mikesouth · 08-02-2006, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by polish_aristocrat

I can't comment on most of the things mentioned by the thread starter, but I can add that the FSC helped also to fight the .xxx domain proposal few months ago...

all they did was state opposition to it...GFY did more to kill it than the FSC did

and might I remind you that originally the FSC was FOR it...and backed off when it came out that ICMR BRIBED the FSC to support it and guess who got fired over that....Bill Lyons the one guy at the FSC who was always against .XXX

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 08-02-2006, 02:54 PM

Well Mike I am not backing on you on this one.

FSC and those organizations have had good action in the past but still we all fight a losing battle. These organizations lack a profit model, which essentially result's in weakened result's on the legal, political front to defend our rights.

Supposedly in a Democracy we are not subject to Majority Rule in theory of politics dispite popular opinion. Our Democracy is to protect the Minority as well and the balances of those protection's are faultering, thus increasing the weight on the shoulder's of the organization;s that set themselves out to defend us.

These organization's need a profit model plane and simple.
Lack of one is why we live now in fear.

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 08-02-2006, 03:01 PM

I advocated the FSC to take .XXX offer or enhance the offering for complete backing, it was a profit driven concept that would have worked for the future.

I sat in the very first meetings when the FSC was courted by .XXX in the vote here in LA at the Hotel. I left knowing it was a damn shame that FSC did not foresee a future where the government will get involved with preposterous laws to limit our industries abilities while targeting our individual freedom. The future required far more money than what it has today.

The window was missed, completely.
SO I will be an asshole again say...

I told you people so.

Pleasurepays · 08-02-2006, 03:04 PM

hate to be the one to point out the obvious... but people follow good leaders. without great leadership... any organization is going to fail. even one that is obviously needed.

Pleasurepays · 08-02-2006, 03:05 PM

....and occasional threads and announcements like "hey, send money, you need us" or "here is how they are coming to get you, so send us money" is not "leadership"

i bet you most people could not even tell you what the FSC is... and thats not their fault in my opinion. those that have any inkling of what the FSC is, probably do only because of the 2257 exemption talk and for no other reason.

FightThisPatent · 08-02-2006, 03:09 PM

It is fair cricitism to jab FSC on certain issues.. but seriously, who is going to be able to put together a new entity that has sharp legal minds like Reed Lee and Jeffrey Douglas (who contribute alot of time at no cost).. and bring together a pretty good segment of both video and internet industry?

Don't throw out the baby with the bath water - whatever that means.... there is atleast a structure to FSC.. and if you don't like it, then help change it. Be a member, be a director, be apart of the ONLY organization that goes to bat for people's right to do adult biz.

If you think its broken, then help fix it. Offering constructive criticism is great... poking jabs without offering solutions is just venting.

Fight the three fingers pointing back!

Pleasurepays · 08-02-2006, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FightThisPatent

It is fair cricitism to jab FSC on certain issues.. but seriously, who is going to be able to put together a new entity that has sharp legal minds like Reed Lee and Jeffrey Douglas (who contribute alot of time at no cost).. and bring together a pretty good segment of both video and internet industry?

Don't throw out the baby with the bath water - whatever that means.... there is atleast a structure to FSC.. and if you don't like it, then help change it. Be a member, be a director, be apart of the ONLY organization that goes to bat for people's right to do adult biz.

If you think its broken, then help fix it. Offering constructive criticism is great... poking jabs without offering solutions is just venting.

Fight the three fingers pointing back!

the terribly irony in you posting about such an issue is that you have done 10 times more to educate, inform and help people understand the issues and why they are important than the ONLY organization that is being paid to do so.

mikesouth · 08-02-2006, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FightThisPatent

It is fair cricitism to jab FSC on certain issues.. but seriously, who is going to be able to put together a new entity that has sharp legal minds like Reed Lee and Jeffrey Douglas (who contribute alot of time at no cost).. and bring together a pretty good segment of both video and internet industry?

Don't throw out the baby with the bath water - whatever that means.... there is atleast a structure to FSC.. and if you don't like it, then help change it. Be a member, be a director, be apart of the ONLY organization that goes to bat for people's right to do adult biz.

If you think its broken, then help fix it. Offering constructive criticism is great... poking jabs without offering solutions is just venting.

Fight the three fingers pointing back!

I gave them plenty of constructive criticism and suggestions...what they fail to do with it is on them

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 08-02-2006, 03:13 PM

C-mon FTP, you know I have tried to help and not just stand around pointing fingers

We battled for nearly 2 months here on this board indepth about .XXX!

Not that .XXx was the correct solution but none the less a solution to bring money to the FSC. We even did the math on it.

Later I discussed with you other possibilities. Perhaps we can recall them sometime.

mikesouth · 08-02-2006, 03:14 PM

Dont get me wrong Im not saying we don't need an organization to protect our interests...I am saying the FSC aint it.

The Other Steve · 08-02-2006, 03:29 PM

The lack of a solid PR campaign to get our point of view out there is one of the biggest problems we face.

Instead of being prepared to face down the lies and deceit of the religious fruitcakes we hide away and hope they will never find us. When we do that we miss out on the best form of defence and we just make ourselves into sitting ducks to be taken down one by one.

The best form of defence is attack and the best form of attack isn't putting up posts on our sites warning surfers that they're about to lose access to porn. The best form of attack is a PR campaign that shows people the clear difference between us and the CP scum and at the same time promotes the reality that there is nothing wrong in human sexuality.

Mike I hope you take this a whole lot further because at the moment we're losing badly.

TheJimmy · 08-02-2006, 03:32 PM

Damm good post Mike

FightThisPatent · 08-02-2006, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Other Steve

The lack of a solid PR campaign to get our point of view out there is one of the biggest problems we face.

Have you checked out http://www.freespeechcoalition.com ?

tons of PR there.

All industry mags carry their PR all the time. How else should they communicate?

Post it up on message boards? Those threads would sink like a rock. I'm just lucky that some of my threads stay up on the first page sometimes.

The messages do get out there, the difference is if people take time to read it.

Fight the 5 second attention span!

FightThisPatent · 08-02-2006, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikesouth

I gave them plenty of constructive criticism and suggestions...what they fail to do with it is on them

true.... but that could been under different executive directors.

And given the fact that there are changes at FSC, i would think this is the perfect time to address all of your ideas and concerns.

Alot of changes are going on especially the political climate... starting a new organization will take along time to start... fix what is broken then, and help shape it to make it better.

Fight the suggestion box!

The Other Steve · 08-02-2006, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FightThisPatent

Have you checked out http://www.freespeechcoalition.com ?

tons of PR there.

All industry mags carry their PR all the time. How else should they communicate?

Post it up on message boards? Those threads would sink like a rock. I'm just lucky that some of my threads stay up on the first page sometimes.

The messages do get out there, the difference is if people take time to read it.

Fight the 5 second attention span!

The fact that we are having this discussion is proof enough that we as an industry are not doing enough.

There is a whole lot more to an effective PR campaign than posting on message boards and having some site where people have to go to get and industry slant on things.

Sorry FTP - I know you do a lot but there is a whole lot more that needs to be done on an industry level and the FSC is not doing it and is probably not the right body to do it.

modF · 08-02-2006, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikesouth

Lets Talk About The Free Speech Coalition:
(from todays www.mikesouth.com)
The largest support bases are virtually ignored, performers and adult webmasters see little use for the FSC...Why? Because there is no value, no return on investment.

Now I would think that performers would be rooting for the FSC simply for the fact that it keeps their personal records out of the hands of every other affiliate.

FightThisPatent · 08-02-2006, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Other Steve

There is a whole lot more to an effective PR campaign than posting on message boards and having some site where people have to go to get and industry slant on things.

how else do you want to get alerts and PR?

maybe they should send out via ICQ?

maybe some desktop application that receives information like Pointcast back in dot-com days?

Maybe blast out PR to email?

Fight the options?

The Other Steve · 08-02-2006, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FightThisPatent

how else do you want to get alerts and PR?

maybe they should send out via ICQ?

maybe some desktop application that receives information like Pointcast back in dot-com days?

Maybe blast out PR to email?

Fight the options?

FTP - now you're just being plain silly. This thread has the potential to be a serious debate. Please don't destroy that potential by trying to score worthless points.

PR campaigns can be a whole lot more than what you seem to think they are.

Now I'll step out of the thread in the hope that it can go a whole lot further and do something positive for the industry.

JD · 08-02-2006, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FightThisPatent

how else do you want to get alerts and PR?

maybe they should send out via ICQ?

maybe some desktop application that receives information like Pointcast back in dot-com days?

Maybe blast out PR to email?

Fight the options?

how about commercials during prime time TV

mikesouth · 08-02-2006, 04:23 PM

sending PR to porn companies is preaching to the choir its retarded even...what they need to be doing is putting it into a format that the mainstream press can use. Do you think mainstream gave a rats ass about "Pirates" in its original form...of course not...now theres an R rated version in every blockbuster in the country...You have to feed them yourself they don't come to you because you are the self proclaimed protector of free speech.

CE_Rashaan · 08-02-2006, 04:37 PM

This is a great thread...

But I just want to add this. Just about every point you have mentioned are points or agendas that get bounced around at FSC everyday. I know many of them dont get implemented but that doesnt mean they dont try. I sounds easy....lobbying, PR campaigns, increased ACLU involvement, more accomplishments, etc... Let's be real here everybody, this is the PORN INDUSTRY were talking about.
Don't you remember that exec from Discover Card's comments at the Phoenix Fourm. He said they are interested by the potential that the industry has, but other then that, that's it. They won't help us nor are they interested in doing so. That was his response when someone asked him if they could lend us a hand in lobbying in Washington. I'll tell you what the rest of the world is the same way. Sure in the bubble we live in Porn is the hottest thing since sliced bread and we are phathomed by the idea that we make so much money and still we get dissed. But in the grand scheme of things we are a small prospective market. I doubt you will see any primetime commercials or large PR campaigns. Not that we don't have the money, but that FOX, Time News Group, GE (NBC) or any other mainstream media company aint touchin us with a ten foot pole.

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 08-02-2006, 05:05 PM

"I sounds easy....lobbying, PR campaigns, increased ACLU involvement, more accomplishments, etc... Let's be real here everybody, this is the PORN INDUSTRY were talking about."

That cost's money, and asking other profit driven media outlet's to just volunteer slotted time for awareness does not make chemical sense.
It is fair to say our industry press, AVN and XBIZ places press without much problem. But is it free?

I doubt it. FSC most likely pay's for slot's just like any other company.

The problem is not press, or information awareness. The problem is the lack of a profit model. Yearly membership due's are by no means even cuttin close to the warchest needed at this time and day.

I am begging the defender's of our industry to not fear Profit taking that will bring about dire investment to defend us politically.

There should be no shame in taking measures to profit in this biz everyone else does. The internet segment has yet to even begin to flex it's financial muscle and in some of my idea's FSC or other organizations can easily achieve over 12K a month.

Couple examples: Taking even 1 dollar per registration of an adult related domain per registration would result in large amounts of money. Work with NETSOL and domain registries, provide an option for the domain buyer to donate 1 buck of their purchase.

Provide an option for affiliates where working with MPA or NAT'S to integrate an option for a percent portion of an affiliate's payout to move to the FSC or defensive body.

Those are two very very simple options to generate large amounts of money to protect us all.

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude · 08-02-2006, 05:11 PM

AlienQ invented the profit model...

On a more serious note, I would love for the industry to set up an organization that seriously goes after copyright infringers. It would be in the interest of all of us in the online world, particularly the smaller ones, since I don't have time to send out DMCA notices, but would gladly contribute to an organization that would do this on behalf of Member sites (think ASCAP).

Also, FSC and the adult industry at large should consider making improvements to the laws instead of simply fighting them piecemeal - we'll always be on the defensive that way. Let's take some pro-active positions instead that will benefit us all.

For example, have the government devise an acceptable 2257 form, so that it is standard for everyone, instead of everyone coming up with their own forms, which may or may not satisfy the government.

Also, since the government says that we have to use only their governenment approved IDs now (and they are the one issuing the documents), and few if any of us are forged documents experts, why not have a system where talent registers with the government, and the Government maintains an online database of the ID pictures (with redacted personal info - i.e, address marked out). Registered agents and producers could log-in, and check the ID presented to them by the talent against what the government has online.

There would be no need for inspections then, since everyone would be satisfied that the talent working in the legitimate adult biz is over 18 (other ways to look at it are, how much do 16 teams of 6 FBI agents cost, and no one goes to jail over clerical errors or forged documents).

It is fairly clear that there will be a 2257 law of some sort, so why not see to it that the law protects our rights, instead of leaving us open for prosecution because the law is so hard to interpret. This is what other industries do. We may not get what we want 100% of the time, but it would be an improvement, and the government would realize that we are as interested as they are in keeping CP out of the legitimate adult industry.

My

ADG Webmaster

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 08-02-2006, 05:19 PM

Maybe what I said will make some lights turn on.

One can only hope.

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 08-02-2006, 05:21 PM

Oh and ADG...

The government is gathering information they have no rights to in the first place. Think about that for a minute. WIth this latest action, they are not inspecting. They are gathering information.

You still feel free?

L-Pink · 08-02-2006, 05:35 PM

It will boil down to this ..... we are our own worst enemy .... try and defend this ....

http://www.pornotube.com/media.php?m=13114

FightThisPatent · 08-02-2006, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Other Steve

FTP - now you're just being plain silly. This thread has the potential to be a serious debate. Please don't destroy that potential by trying to score worthless points.
.

I am being serious... I find the idea of a "debate" of whether FSC is to be the organization to represent the biz is fruitless and unwarranted.

Its far easier to take an existing operation and help mold it, to make it represent the interests of its membership, rather than trying to start something new.

First thing you need is money, lots of it.. in being able to hire lobbyists to help influence laws as MikeSouth and others have pointed out.

It takes lots of money to hire 1st amendment attorneys to fight bad laws.

This money can only come from the membership, which means people have to join. The Robin Hood model doesn't work, where bigger companies should carry the financial burden.

As Rashan was pointing out, the bigger companies have their acts together. They paid money for attorneys to handle their 2257 issues, got compliant, and probably make some of their political contributions for issues that affect them.

Its the mid to smaller sized companies that have the larger numbers that are best served by a representative body like FSC. While FSC can't play the surrogate role to watch over its members 2257 compliance, it does provide a circling of the wagons when it comes to larger issues.

For this to even be a debate, there needs to be the proposal for another plan.

So to the thread topic of starting a new org.. my points have been on target to that topic in saying there is an answer, FSC, but i will agree with many of you, that improvement can be done in various areas, but there is alot that goes behind the scenes.. and in this age of instant communication and cameras everywhere, i can understand the desire to want to know each and every thing.. but their is a practical matter and there is also the issue if even there was complete full disclosure and transparency, how many would actually read through all of it?

I made some suggestions as well, like somewhat of a representative body, where people on various boards who were active and concerned with adult industry issues, could act as like representatives... with interaction with FSC staff to voice concerns and be conduits back to the community boards.

As with all ideas, it takes time and assignment of priority.

Not renewing your FSC membership dues or not joining FSC will cause a negative impact on the industry, if there isn't enough funding to keep FSC going.

Who's going to deal with COPA in october? Who's going to continually litigate on 2257? Who's going to address the various labelling laws and such?

ACLU and EFF might on certain issues, but they don't represent the interests of the adult biz.

Let FSC die on the vine, and what goes with it, is the only defense for this industry.

Fight the soapbox!

mikesouth · 08-02-2006, 06:03 PM

FTP

Heres the problem...we all know the FSC needs money its been needing money for more than 10 years...and thats the problem...many of us have sen money and donated only to see it squandered...10 years down the road is not the time to preach send us money now and we will really really put it to good use THIS TIME.

Thats why the FSC needs to be torn down and started over...the mere name brings up images of ineptitude, greed and pure laziness. Toss the old FSC out on its ass and replace with something that can effectively represent us...maybe open an ACLU chapter...point is do SOMETHING

The time to tell us how much we need you has long since passed you have proven time and time again that we dont need you because when we do...you aint there....

FightThisPatent · 08-02-2006, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikesouth

....Chances are that whoever replaces Michelle will have read this, you have your work cut out for you, personaly I hope you succeed

I hope the new Executive Director candidates do read your ideas as well, as you have touched upon a broad range of topics. The problem is that it is a broad range of topics, which means a bigger staff is needed....

Look at the NRA... 3M+ members and a huge staff (budget) to boot.

There is still so many affiliate webmasters who aren't FSC members, so many other paysites, performers, and businesses that aren't members.

Money buys you opportunity. Lack of money binds your hands.

All of your great ideas require alot of resources for focus, and so, my reiterating point.. support FSC, get involved, and help shape it.

More members coming in means more money to do more things. more members means more potential active involvement by members to shape and contribute to the organization.

I'll stop repeating myself now.

Fight the loop!

davecummings · 08-02-2006, 06:44 PM

Rather than rag on FSC, I've tried to help a little (have YOU??)---for the last nine Lobbying Days events in Sacramento, I bought my own plane ticket and paid my own hotel bill, donated my own time away from performing, etc (having an AVN Award Winner like Mike South participating would have helped a LOT, had he been one of the stars in attendance!). In the early days, legislators were shy to acknowledge us; but, every trip provided more and more recognition and acceptance, thanks to the everyday hard work of FSC's Kat Sunlove who now has staffers and legislators often seeking her FSC thoughts BEFORE they propose some intrusive legislation; thus, instead of us having to fight legislative grandstanding and get bills shot down in committee, FSC heads them off before they sometimes even get written. The Calderon (Taxation) Bill was killed after mucg work by FSC, the Return of Business Records Bill which was supported by FSC and it's allies in Sacramento and was passed into law, secondary effects and taxes on stripping along with 6-foot rules were killed, etc etc.

FSC is now expanding into other states and into D.C., and many of the things (and much more) that Mike mentioned are already being worked on. It takes manpower, and manpower costs money--maybe more volunteering and less griping/sniping might help more than the constant complaining????

Because of financial constraints, FSC can't financially-legally fight each and every screw-up one of us makes in our own hometown, but they do indeed take on appropriate stuff that affects the Adult Industry as a whole. Had all of us who joined FSC last spring/summer to cover our 2257 exposed asses actually all paid our full rightful dues (instead of joining as the cheapest category we could rationalize into---are YOU one of those?), perhaps FSC wouldn't be so constrained in the fights they can take on, and might even have some financial resources to do some of the other things Mike and others (including the VERY active FSC Board) suggest.

I've noted lots of efforts by FSC to foster connections with the Adult Internet (appointed Connor Young to the FSC Board, attended webmaster events, held FSC meetings at Cybernet and other gatherings, strongly supported ASACP, etc etc. FSC has also integrated the Adult Entertainment/Gentlemen's Clubs into the fold. FSC is NOT just about video/dvd!

IMHO, FSC has made SIGNIFICANT headway, has set up even more advances, and has access to the best legal minds in America. What it needs to do is somehow wave a magic wand and get EVERYONE on board, both with dues and with positive assisting. Carping at FSC is not gonna make us stronger as the Adult Industry! I wonder if the feds are smiling tonight because of this (negative) thread being started!!??

Just my humble opinion! Though I will monitor this thread, I will not post or respond to the snipers. I urge you to thing objectively, and as things apply in 2006, not as you or others subjectively react to FSC matters from years ago!

Dave Cummings

Snake Doctor · 08-02-2006, 07:13 PM

Dave you're my hero.

Well said.

tony286 · 08-02-2006, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davecummings

Rather than rag on FSC, I've tried to help a little (have YOU??)---for the last nine Lobbying Days events in Sacramento, I bought my own plane ticket and paid my own hotel bill, donated my own time away from performing, etc (having an AVN Award Winner like Mike South participating would have helped a LOT, had he been one of the stars in attendance!). In the early days, legislators were shy to acknowledge us; but, every trip provided more and more recognition and acceptance, thanks to the everyday hard work of FSC's Kat Sunlove who now has staffers and legislators often seeking her FSC thoughts BEFORE they propose some intrusive legislation; thus, instead of us having to fight legislative grandstanding and get bills shot down in committee, FSC heads them off before they sometimes even get written. The Calderon (Taxation) Bill was killed after mucg work by FSC, the Return of Business Records Bill which was supported by FSC and it's allies in Sacramento and was passed into law, secondary effects and taxes on stripping along with 6-foot rules were killed, etc etc.

FSC is now expanding into other states and into D.C., and many of the things (and much more) that Mike mentioned are already being worked on. It takes manpower, and manpower costs money--maybe more volunteering and less griping/sniping might help more than the constant complaining????

Because of financial constraints, FSC can't financially-legally fight each and every screw-up one of us makes in our own hometown, but they do indeed take on appropriate stuff that affects the Adult Industry as a whole. Had all of us who joined FSC last spring/summer to cover our 2257 exposed asses actually all paid our full rightful dues (instead of joining as the cheapest category we could rationalize into---are YOU one of those?), perhaps FSC wouldn't be so constrained in the fights they can take on, and might even have some financial resources to do some of the other things Mike and others (including the VERY active FSC Board) suggest.

I've noted lots of efforts by FSC to foster connections with the Adult Internet (appointed Connor Young to the FSC Board, attended webmaster events, held FSC meetings at Cybernet and other gatherings, strongly supported ASACP, etc etc. FSC has also integrated the Adult Entertainment/Gentlemen's Clubs into the fold. FSC is NOT just about video/dvd!

IMHO, FSC has made SIGNIFICANT headway, has set up even more advances, and has access to the best legal minds in America. What it needs to do is somehow wave a magic wand and get EVERYONE on board, both with dues and with positive assisting. Carping at FSC is not gonna make us stronger as the Adult Industry! I wonder if the feds are smiling tonight because of this (negative) thread being started!!??

Just my humble opinion! Though I will monitor this thread, I will not post or respond to the snipers. I urge you to thing objectively, and as things apply in 2006, not as you or others subjectively react to FSC matters from years ago!

Dave Cummings

Going to Sacramento helps you, that's CA local government but for webmasters and adult producers online that means nothing.Also CA is a different mindset Mike and I go to the state capitol in GA to talk about porn .We are painting a large target on our heads. lol I also woulsd think all these talk shows FSC cant get someone on those to support our industry. They need someone on 5 nights a week.Im not attacking you just saying the way I see it .

mikesouth · 08-02-2006, 07:33 PM

Dave I love ya but I hate to tell ya that you are a primary producer and the FSC injunction doesn't help you or exempt you in any way.

FTP We have all heard the mantra about getting things done takes money many many times before...problem is we haven't seen any return on our investment.

The FSC does a piss poor job period, if it didnt it woulkd have a lot more money so far only one person has taken up my challenge to name only 3 accomplishments the FSC has made in ten years...a dubious record

What the FSC lacks and has always lacked is accountability and as such it lacks credibility

something about trust but verify

pussyluver · 08-02-2006, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MatrixRashaan

Some quick points...

60% of america is on dial-up so the whole video side of the industry is done shit is ridiculous. Dont ever forget who really runs this industry, THE VIDEO SIDE

O-really????? I think that is an old number and is changing fast. Look around at the emerging VOD market. Tells a big story. Still it is the Video producers providing the content for the VOD sites. That point is made. So is the point that the web and the webmaster will play an ever increasing roll.

It would appear from the outside looking in that FSC has not done a great job of promoting itself. Blowing its own horn so to speak. One really can't say they have done nothing and have few accomplishments.

I think there are those in the industry that would like to start something apart from the FSC. Suspect the reasons are motivitaed by money and power. I'm not a player at all in all this. Interested in what others in the know have to say.

08-02-2006, 01:13 PM	#1
mikesouth Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: My High Horse Posts: 6,334	Disband the Free Speech Coalition, Should we start our own? Lets Talk About The Free Speech Coalition: (from todays www.mikesouth.com) Michelle Freeridge, the Executive Director, is stepping down and the FSC is looking for someone to fill her shoes. Noe I don't know Michelle and I can't testify as to anything she may have or have not done during her time there. In all of the stories about her departure it's always mentioned how little money the FSC gets and how little support from the industry and you know what? We don't support the FSC very well but then one must also ask the question why? I think the reason is that by and large the Free Speech Coalition doesn't support us very well. I have been around pretty much since the inception of the Free Speech Coalition and I can't name much that they have accomplished other than getting two record keeping cases set aside for secondary producers. That isn't anything that will win accolades from most porners, who happen to be primary producers. The largest support bases are virtually ignored, performers and adult webmasters see little use for the FSC...Why? Because there is no value, no return on investment. Most webmasters agree that the current challenge to 2257 on behalf of secondary producers is more motivated by the fact that AVN is a secondary producer than it is anything to protect the adult web, and just what do performers get out of a membership? Nothing, that's what. But is it the FSC's fault? You must first look at who the FSC is, ie a board of directors and many of the highest ranking people, as well as the largest monetary supporters are big porn companies, companies who have a vested interest in keeping pressure on the smaller companies and particularly on the adult web, so any progressive move to help in those areas is likely to get bogged down. The Free Speech Coalition has become synonymous with inaction and ineptitude, I said a long time ago that if it really wants to be successful it must first rename and reinvent itself. What I would like to see come out of the organization are some clearly defined goals here are some ideas for you guys: Instead of trying to hire your own lobbyists, you should make it a priority to align yourself with better funded and more serious organizations like the ACLU, not to be a leech, but to give yourselves some clout. Video as we know it is near extinction, the internet is the future of porn, if not the present. You best wake up to that fact and start making visible efforts to show adult webmasters that membership has it's benefits. Simply saying "we are your organization because we say we are now give us money" doesn't cut it. If you want money and support you must earn it. For example I would have no problem paying the FSC a thousand dollars a year if I knew that so long as I stayed within certain guidelines the FSC would be four square in my corner should I be prosecuted, that simply isn't the case, as of right now that money gets me nothing but an attaboy. The FSC needs to hire Adella or someone like her to do it's PR. Outside the adult industry who has heard of 2257? Mainstream media pays it no attention because it just affects porners...or so they think. Explain to them how it allows the FBI to enter your home with no warrant, no probable cause and no due process so that they can hold you at gunpoint until you can prove you didn't commit a crime that never happened. If it can happen to us, it can happen to anyone. You have to get performers involved and just like with everyone else that means you have to return something of value for the money, maybe its a group health plan, maybe its legal assistance or ongoing education or paralegal services or maybe you get together with AIM and offer discounted testing to FSC members. Whatever it is you have to do it, you won't survive without the performers. Ok so there's a few ideas off the top of my head, I would hope that you can come up with some of your own. Chances are that whoever replaces Michelle will have read this, you have your work cut out for you, personaly I hope you succeed but I bet you won't. I bet the good old FSC runs business as usual, no plans, no goals just the give me money mentality that one finds in lazy strippers who feel they shouldn't have to earn it, it should simply be bestowed upon them. OK FSC, PROVE ME WRONG.... And No Im not running for Executive Director, I am way too far away from Los Angeles even though I could do a better job than has been done in the past via telecommuting, don't believe me? Name 3 things the FSC has done that is worth 25.00 to you in all the last ten years combined. Go ahead...give it a shot. __________________ Mike South It's No wonder I took up drugs and alcohol, it's the only way I could dumb myself down enough to cope with the morons in this biz.

08-02-2006, 01:22 PM	#2
woj <&(©¿©)&> Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 47,882	sig spot... __________________ Custom Software Development, email: woj#at#wojfun#.#com to discuss details or skype: wojl2000 or gchat: wojfun or telegram: wojl2000 Affiliate program tools: Hosted Galleries Manager Banner Manager Video Manager Wordpress Affiliate Plugin Pic/Movie of the Day Fansign Generator Zip Manager

08-02-2006, 01:30 PM	#4
AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE best designer on GFY Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IALIEN.COM - High Definition Video and Photographic Productions -ICQ 78943384 Posts: 30,307	It's an example of Capitalism's inherent flaw. There is no foundational structure required to defend. The only way is via a profit model. I have spoken to "FightThePatent" several times about method's that would more or less move the FSC to a profit model that's end result would defend us all. It also dispoil's back to .XXX in one theoretical idea but it was not the only idea of a profit driven foundation that could defend our industry. __________________ NAKED HOSTING FTW!11 I'm On The INSANE PLAN $9.95/mo! \| The Alien Blog Adult News Worth Reading Updated Daily \| Content For Sale! 641 PICS 216 MINUTES OF VIDEO $350.00 \|ICQ: 78943384 \| Last edited by AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE; 08-02-2006 at 01:32 PM..

08-02-2006, 01:31 PM	#5
mikesouth Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: My High Horse Posts: 6,334	Thats my point...and i would expect that most everyone here agrees with you. I was a card carrying paying member once. You know how many times they notified me of a meeting? how many meeting transcripts they sent me? how many press releases they sent me? NONE but soon as it came time for mty renewal, they didn't waste any time begging then.... I don't mind paying for a whore, but if you want my return business you best make "the juice worth the squeeze" __________________ Mike South It's No wonder I took up drugs and alcohol, it's the only way I could dumb myself down enough to cope with the morons in this biz.

08-02-2006, 01:34 PM	#6
AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE best designer on GFY Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IALIEN.COM - High Definition Video and Photographic Productions -ICQ 78943384 Posts: 30,307	The ACLU and ASaCP lacks a profit model as well. They are flawed idea's. Good idea's but flawed. And because of that weakness and peoples false faith that "It is working" allows us to become oppressed. __________________ NAKED HOSTING FTW!11 I'm On The INSANE PLAN $9.95/mo! \| The Alien Blog Adult News Worth Reading Updated Daily \| Content For Sale! 641 PICS 216 MINUTES OF VIDEO $350.00 \|ICQ: 78943384 \| Last edited by AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE; 08-02-2006 at 01:35 PM..

08-02-2006, 01:35 PM	#7
Daruma Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: PandaLand™ Posts: 3,494	and fear tactics you don't pay = your not protected sounds like business models of: insurance business antivirus programs local bookie etc. __________________ RIP TD

08-02-2006, 02:20 PM	#10
CE_Rashaan Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Porn Valley Posts: 937	Some quick points... FSC won a supreme court case in 2002 FSC vs. Ashcroft or vice versa. It was regarding the COPA ruling which tried to define any material that is simulated or appears to be underage be illegal. Basically if a 40 year old girl was acting out a role as a high school girl with pig tails that would be illegal. FSC struck that down. Avn has no problem getting 2257 info from its advertisers thus they wont be bogged down by 2257 webmasters are the real targets. FSC's larger members actually didnt want the smaller webmasters to be protected, but FSC went ahead with the widespread injunction covering all members. Not only does the FSC hire lobbyist, it has partnered with the ACLU and several other groups to further its cause. Actually they had the ACLU write an amicus brief regarding 2257 60% of america is on dial-up so the whole video side of the industry is done shit is ridiculous. Dont ever forget who really runs this industry, THE VIDEO SIDE Mainstream media is very aware of 2257 in its original inception 2257 was going to encompass hollywood as well until there lobbying efforts changed the writing of the statue. They pay very close attention to 2257 Just some points to add...You have good intentions, but I think you need to do more research. just my

08-02-2006, 02:27 PM	#11
polish_aristocrat Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 40,377	I can't comment on most of the things mentioned by the thread starter, but I can add that the FSC helped also to fight the .xxx domain proposal few months ago... __________________ I don't use ICQ anymore.

08-02-2006, 02:47 PM	#14
mikesouth Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: My High Horse Posts: 6,334	Oh I did plenty of research you named one accomplishment the FSC made in over ten years, congrats...thats more than most can name but in the grand scheme of things was it worth the money you pay them? And you think 2257 won't bog down AVN? do you have any idea how much paperwork that would be for one single issue? Its a huge issue for AVN, not to mention the fact that it makes AVN a very big target for the feds. so the FSC has hired a lobbyist...yup i knew that but what exactly has this lobbyist done? and the ACLU filed a brief...well thats a start I suppose but again, does it make it worth what it costs to join? and why isn't the ACLU a party in this suit? would it be because the FSC wants it all for themselves or because the ACLU chose not to be because there really isnt any solid alliance or just maybe because the FSC want to leech off of the ACLU and take all the glory while the ACLU spent all the money and did all the work... You think video in its present form isnt a dinosaur...good...keep thinking that this biz needs thinning for sure. Mainstream isn't at all aware of the real implications of 2257...you know why because to them its CP...why is it CP? because we in this biz make no concerted effort PR wise to disassociate ourselves from kiddie porners that's why If im ED the first thing I do is make everyone a one year member for free second is discount testing at AIM for fsc members, enough to offset the cost of the dues. Then I start showing some results, doing some fund raisers and showing where the money is being spent I start dialogue with the ACLU to strengthen a relationship there I consult with them and PR the fuck out of anything we do together I hire a good mainstream PR person to give mainstream news a slant on us that they can use and the first PR blitz will be to disassociate our industry from child pornography how am I doing so far? __________________ Mike South It's No wonder I took up drugs and alcohol, it's the only way I could dumb myself down enough to cope with the morons in this biz.

08-02-2006, 02:54 PM	#18
AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE best designer on GFY Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IALIEN.COM - High Definition Video and Photographic Productions -ICQ 78943384 Posts: 30,307	Well Mike I am not backing on you on this one. FSC and those organizations have had good action in the past but still we all fight a losing battle. These organizations lack a profit model, which essentially result's in weakened result's on the legal, political front to defend our rights. Supposedly in a Democracy we are not subject to Majority Rule in theory of politics dispite popular opinion. Our Democracy is to protect the Minority as well and the balances of those protection's are faultering, thus increasing the weight on the shoulder's of the organization;s that set themselves out to defend us. These organization's need a profit model plane and simple. Lack of one is why we live now in fear. __________________ NAKED HOSTING FTW!11 I'm On The INSANE PLAN $9.95/mo! \| The Alien Blog Adult News Worth Reading Updated Daily \| Content For Sale! 641 PICS 216 MINUTES OF VIDEO $350.00 \|ICQ: 78943384 \|

08-02-2006, 03:01 PM	#19
AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE best designer on GFY Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IALIEN.COM - High Definition Video and Photographic Productions -ICQ 78943384 Posts: 30,307	I advocated the FSC to take .XXX offer or enhance the offering for complete backing, it was a profit driven concept that would have worked for the future. I sat in the very first meetings when the FSC was courted by .XXX in the vote here in LA at the Hotel. I left knowing it was a damn shame that FSC did not foresee a future where the government will get involved with preposterous laws to limit our industries abilities while targeting our individual freedom. The future required far more money than what it has today. The window was missed, completely. SO I will be an asshole again say... I told you people so. __________________ NAKED HOSTING FTW!11 I'm On The INSANE PLAN $9.95/mo! \| The Alien Blog Adult News Worth Reading Updated Daily \| Content For Sale! 641 PICS 216 MINUTES OF VIDEO $350.00 \|ICQ: 78943384 \| Last edited by AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE; 08-02-2006 at 03:04 PM..

08-02-2006, 03:04 PM	#20
Pleasurepays BANNED - SUPPORTING TUBES Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I live in a pile of boogers Posts: 11,913	hate to be the one to point out the obvious... but people follow good leaders. without great leadership... any organization is going to fail. even one that is obviously needed.

08-02-2006, 03:05 PM	#21
Pleasurepays BANNED - SUPPORTING TUBES Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I live in a pile of boogers Posts: 11,913	....and occasional threads and announcements like "hey, send money, you need us" or "here is how they are coming to get you, so send us money" is not "leadership" i bet you most people could not even tell you what the FSC is... and thats not their fault in my opinion. those that have any inkling of what the FSC is, probably do only because of the 2257 exemption talk and for no other reason. Last edited by Pleasurepays; 08-02-2006 at 03:06 PM..

08-02-2006, 03:09 PM	#22
FightThisPatent Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 4,090	It is fair cricitism to jab FSC on certain issues.. but seriously, who is going to be able to put together a new entity that has sharp legal minds like Reed Lee and Jeffrey Douglas (who contribute alot of time at no cost).. and bring together a pretty good segment of both video and internet industry? Don't throw out the baby with the bath water - whatever that means.... there is atleast a structure to FSC.. and if you don't like it, then help change it. Be a member, be a director, be apart of the ONLY organization that goes to bat for people's right to do adult biz. If you think its broken, then help fix it. Offering constructive criticism is great... poking jabs without offering solutions is just venting. Fight the three fingers pointing back! __________________ http://www.t3report.com (where's the traffic?) v5.0 is out! \| http://www.FightThePatent.com \| ICQ 52741957

08-02-2006, 03:13 PM	#25
AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE best designer on GFY Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IALIEN.COM - High Definition Video and Photographic Productions -ICQ 78943384 Posts: 30,307	C-mon FTP, you know I have tried to help and not just stand around pointing fingers We battled for nearly 2 months here on this board indepth about .XXX! Not that .XXx was the correct solution but none the less a solution to bring money to the FSC. We even did the math on it. Later I discussed with you other possibilities. Perhaps we can recall them sometime. __________________ NAKED HOSTING FTW!11 I'm On The INSANE PLAN $9.95/mo! \| The Alien Blog Adult News Worth Reading Updated Daily \| Content For Sale! 641 PICS 216 MINUTES OF VIDEO $350.00 \|ICQ: 78943384 \| Last edited by AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE; 08-02-2006 at 03:15 PM..

08-02-2006, 03:14 PM	#26
mikesouth Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: My High Horse Posts: 6,334	Dont get me wrong Im not saying we don't need an organization to protect our interests...I am saying the FSC aint it. __________________ Mike South It's No wonder I took up drugs and alcohol, it's the only way I could dumb myself down enough to cope with the morons in this biz.

08-02-2006, 03:29 PM	#27
The Other Steve Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Sunny Queensland - perfect one day and better the next. Posts: 2,106	The lack of a solid PR campaign to get our point of view out there is one of the biggest problems we face. Instead of being prepared to face down the lies and deceit of the religious fruitcakes we hide away and hope they will never find us. When we do that we miss out on the best form of defence and we just make ourselves into sitting ducks to be taken down one by one. The best form of defence is attack and the best form of attack isn't putting up posts on our sites warning surfers that they're about to lose access to porn. The best form of attack is a PR campaign that shows people the clear difference between us and the CP scum and at the same time promotes the reality that there is nothing wrong in human sexuality. Mike I hope you take this a whole lot further because at the moment we're losing badly. __________________ Left intentionally blank ... just like my brain

08-02-2006, 03:32 PM	#28
TheJimmy ICQ- five seven 0 2 5 5 0 Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 10,747	Damm good post Mike __________________ Investor with 5m - 15m USD to invest. Do you have a site or network of sites earning 50k - 200k a month income? Email your contact and preliminary data to: domain.cashventures (at) gmail.com....Please...no tire kickers...serious offers and inquiries only.

08-02-2006, 04:23 PM	#36
mikesouth Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: My High Horse Posts: 6,334	sending PR to porn companies is preaching to the choir its retarded even...what they need to be doing is putting it into a format that the mainstream press can use. Do you think mainstream gave a rats ass about "Pirates" in its original form...of course not...now theres an R rated version in every blockbuster in the country...You have to feed them yourself they don't come to you because you are the self proclaimed protector of free speech. __________________ Mike South It's No wonder I took up drugs and alcohol, it's the only way I could dumb myself down enough to cope with the morons in this biz.

08-02-2006, 04:37 PM	#37
CE_Rashaan Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Porn Valley Posts: 937	This is a great thread... But I just want to add this. Just about every point you have mentioned are points or agendas that get bounced around at FSC everyday. I know many of them dont get implemented but that doesnt mean they dont try. I sounds easy....lobbying, PR campaigns, increased ACLU involvement, more accomplishments, etc... Let's be real here everybody, this is the PORN INDUSTRY were talking about. Don't you remember that exec from Discover Card's comments at the Phoenix Fourm. He said they are interested by the potential that the industry has, but other then that, that's it. They won't help us nor are they interested in doing so. That was his response when someone asked him if they could lend us a hand in lobbying in Washington. I'll tell you what the rest of the world is the same way. Sure in the bubble we live in Porn is the hottest thing since sliced bread and we are phathomed by the idea that we make so much money and still we get dissed. But in the grand scheme of things we are a small prospective market. I doubt you will see any primetime commercials or large PR campaigns. Not that we don't have the money, but that FOX, Time News Group, GE (NBC) or any other mainstream media company aint touchin us with a ten foot pole.

08-02-2006, 05:05 PM	#38
AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE best designer on GFY Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IALIEN.COM - High Definition Video and Photographic Productions -ICQ 78943384 Posts: 30,307	"I sounds easy....lobbying, PR campaigns, increased ACLU involvement, more accomplishments, etc... Let's be real here everybody, this is the PORN INDUSTRY were talking about." That cost's money, and asking other profit driven media outlet's to just volunteer slotted time for awareness does not make chemical sense. It is fair to say our industry press, AVN and XBIZ places press without much problem. But is it free? I doubt it. FSC most likely pay's for slot's just like any other company. The problem is not press, or information awareness. The problem is the lack of a profit model. Yearly membership due's are by no means even cuttin close to the warchest needed at this time and day. I am begging the defender's of our industry to not fear Profit taking that will bring about dire investment to defend us politically. There should be no shame in taking measures to profit in this biz everyone else does. The internet segment has yet to even begin to flex it's financial muscle and in some of my idea's FSC or other organizations can easily achieve over 12K a month. Couple examples: Taking even 1 dollar per registration of an adult related domain per registration would result in large amounts of money. Work with NETSOL and domain registries, provide an option for the domain buyer to donate 1 buck of their purchase. Provide an option for affiliates where working with MPA or NAT'S to integrate an option for a percent portion of an affiliate's payout to move to the FSC or defensive body. Those are two very very simple options to generate large amounts of money to protect us all. __________________ NAKED HOSTING FTW!11 I'm On The INSANE PLAN $9.95/mo! \| The Alien Blog Adult News Worth Reading Updated Daily \| Content For Sale! 641 PICS 216 MINUTES OF VIDEO $350.00 \|ICQ: 78943384 \|

08-02-2006, 05:11 PM	#39
AsianDivaGirlsWebDude Purveyor, Fine Asian Porn Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: San Francisco Bay Area Posts: 38,323	AlienQ invented the profit model... On a more serious note, I would love for the industry to set up an organization that seriously goes after copyright infringers. It would be in the interest of all of us in the online world, particularly the smaller ones, since I don't have time to send out DMCA notices, but would gladly contribute to an organization that would do this on behalf of Member sites (think ASCAP). Also, FSC and the adult industry at large should consider making improvements to the laws instead of simply fighting them piecemeal - we'll always be on the defensive that way. Let's take some pro-active positions instead that will benefit us all. For example, have the government devise an acceptable 2257 form, so that it is standard for everyone, instead of everyone coming up with their own forms, which may or may not satisfy the government. Also, since the government says that we have to use only their governenment approved IDs now (and they are the one issuing the documents), and few if any of us are forged documents experts, why not have a system where talent registers with the government, and the Government maintains an online database of the ID pictures (with redacted personal info - i.e, address marked out). Registered agents and producers could log-in, and check the ID presented to them by the talent against what the government has online. There would be no need for inspections then, since everyone would be satisfied that the talent working in the legitimate adult biz is over 18 (other ways to look at it are, how much do 16 teams of 6 FBI agents cost, and no one goes to jail over clerical errors or forged documents). It is fairly clear that there will be a 2257 law of some sort, so why not see to it that the law protects our rights, instead of leaving us open for prosecution because the law is so hard to interpret. This is what other industries do. We may not get what we want 100% of the time, but it would be an improvement, and the government would realize that we are as interested as they are in keeping CP out of the legitimate adult industry. My ADG Webmaster __________________ Asian Diva Girls - Exclusive Photos and Videos Asian Diva Girls Affiliate Program (50% ccBill Revshare) Last edited by AsianDivaGirlsWebDude; 08-02-2006 at 05:12 PM..

08-02-2006, 05:19 PM	#40
AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE best designer on GFY Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IALIEN.COM - High Definition Video and Photographic Productions -ICQ 78943384 Posts: 30,307	Maybe what I said will make some lights turn on. One can only hope. __________________ NAKED HOSTING FTW!11 I'm On The INSANE PLAN $9.95/mo! \| The Alien Blog Adult News Worth Reading Updated Daily \| Content For Sale! 641 PICS 216 MINUTES OF VIDEO $350.00 \|ICQ: 78943384 \|

08-02-2006, 05:21 PM	#41
AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE best designer on GFY Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IALIEN.COM - High Definition Video and Photographic Productions -ICQ 78943384 Posts: 30,307	Oh and ADG... The government is gathering information they have no rights to in the first place. Think about that for a minute. WIth this latest action, they are not inspecting. They are gathering information. You still feel free? __________________ NAKED HOSTING FTW!11 I'm On The INSANE PLAN $9.95/mo! \| The Alien Blog Adult News Worth Reading Updated Daily \| Content For Sale! 641 PICS 216 MINUTES OF VIDEO $350.00 \|ICQ: 78943384 \| Last edited by AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE; 08-02-2006 at 05:23 PM..

08-02-2006, 05:35 PM	#42
L-Pink working on my tan Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Florida/Kentucky Posts: 39,151	It will boil down to this ..... we are our own worst enemy .... try and defend this .... http://www.pornotube.com/media.php?m=13114

08-02-2006, 06:03 PM	#44
mikesouth Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: My High Horse Posts: 6,334	FTP Heres the problem...we all know the FSC needs money its been needing money for more than 10 years...and thats the problem...many of us have sen money and donated only to see it squandered...10 years down the road is not the time to preach send us money now and we will really really put it to good use THIS TIME. Thats why the FSC needs to be torn down and started over...the mere name brings up images of ineptitude, greed and pure laziness. Toss the old FSC out on its ass and replace with something that can effectively represent us...maybe open an ACLU chapter...point is do SOMETHING The time to tell us how much we need you has long since passed you have proven time and time again that we dont need you because when we do...you aint there.... __________________ Mike South It's No wonder I took up drugs and alcohol, it's the only way I could dumb myself down enough to cope with the morons in this biz.

08-02-2006, 06:44 PM	#46
davecummings Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: San Diego Posts: 2,922	I applaud FSC! Rather than rag on FSC, I've tried to help a little (have YOU??)---for the last nine Lobbying Days events in Sacramento, I bought my own plane ticket and paid my own hotel bill, donated my own time away from performing, etc (having an AVN Award Winner like Mike South participating would have helped a LOT, had he been one of the stars in attendance!). In the early days, legislators were shy to acknowledge us; but, every trip provided more and more recognition and acceptance, thanks to the everyday hard work of FSC's Kat Sunlove who now has staffers and legislators often seeking her FSC thoughts BEFORE they propose some intrusive legislation; thus, instead of us having to fight legislative grandstanding and get bills shot down in committee, FSC heads them off before they sometimes even get written. The Calderon (Taxation) Bill was killed after mucg work by FSC, the Return of Business Records Bill which was supported by FSC and it's allies in Sacramento and was passed into law, secondary effects and taxes on stripping along with 6-foot rules were killed, etc etc. FSC is now expanding into other states and into D.C., and many of the things (and much more) that Mike mentioned are already being worked on. It takes manpower, and manpower costs money--maybe more volunteering and less griping/sniping might help more than the constant complaining???? Because of financial constraints, FSC can't financially-legally fight each and every screw-up one of us makes in our own hometown, but they do indeed take on appropriate stuff that affects the Adult Industry as a whole. Had all of us who joined FSC last spring/summer to cover our 2257 exposed asses actually all paid our full rightful dues (instead of joining as the cheapest category we could rationalize into---are YOU one of those?), perhaps FSC wouldn't be so constrained in the fights they can take on, and might even have some financial resources to do some of the other things Mike and others (including the VERY active FSC Board) suggest. I've noted lots of efforts by FSC to foster connections with the Adult Internet (appointed Connor Young to the FSC Board, attended webmaster events, held FSC meetings at Cybernet and other gatherings, strongly supported ASACP, etc etc. FSC has also integrated the Adult Entertainment/Gentlemen's Clubs into the fold. FSC is NOT just about video/dvd! IMHO, FSC has made SIGNIFICANT headway, has set up even more advances, and has access to the best legal minds in America. What it needs to do is somehow wave a magic wand and get EVERYONE on board, both with dues and with positive assisting. Carping at FSC is not gonna make us stronger as the Adult Industry! I wonder if the feds are smiling tonight because of this (negative) thread being started!!?? Just my humble opinion! Though I will monitor this thread, I will not post or respond to the snipers. I urge you to thing objectively, and as things apply in 2006, not as you or others subjectively react to FSC matters from years ago! Dave Cummings

08-02-2006, 07:13 PM	#47
Snake Doctor I'm Lenny2 Bitch Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: On top of my soapbox Posts: 13,449	Dave you're my hero. Well said. __________________ sig too big

08-02-2006, 07:33 PM	#49
mikesouth Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: My High Horse Posts: 6,334	Dave I love ya but I hate to tell ya that you are a primary producer and the FSC injunction doesn't help you or exempt you in any way. FTP We have all heard the mantra about getting things done takes money many many times before...problem is we haven't seen any return on our investment. The FSC does a piss poor job period, if it didnt it woulkd have a lot more money so far only one person has taken up my challenge to name only 3 accomplishments the FSC has made in ten years...a dubious record What the FSC lacks and has always lacked is accountability and as such it lacks credibility something about trust but verify __________________ Mike South It's No wonder I took up drugs and alcohol, it's the only way I could dumb myself down enough to cope with the morons in this biz.