Webby

OK.. I'm gotta rant

There is nothing wrong with making folks aware of any danger in their lives.

The responsibility to do that (least at national level), lies with a government - and should be based on fact, not secrets.

For any political party or organisation in a nation to attempt to gain popularity by playing up propaganda based on fear - and then claiming they will provide a magic solution, is a base and crass appeal from swamp life.

No political or other organisation can protect anyone. No government on this planet can lay claims of protecting their citizens from deliberate and well-planned intentions by others to commit damage.

If this blatant propaganda, based on an unoriginal concept of fear among a population, is the level of conduct of political parties within the US - there is much to learn or little hope.

Only my - any political party in any nation who attemts to gain promotional advantage by lying and deceit, needs to face criminal prosecution. But - it's not a perfect world, is it?

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Pleasurepays

its very weird that you decided to hide somewhere in the 3rd world and not participate in the issues that matter and shape the world... yet can't stop bashing from a safe distance.

one would think you would just be quietly enjoying the life that costa rica has to offer.

i am starting to wonder if you just known there as "that annoying foreigner that won't shut up"






politics IS propaganda. it is in the USA.. it is in Iceland. It is in Canada.. it is in China... it is in Sweden. it is everywhere.
you go so far to continually bash the USA that you completely leave reason, facts and logic behind. maybe its time for you to think up a new act??

Lazonby

I don't think we should fear the Muslim terrorists. After all, there's nothing scary about being blown up or having to live under Sharia.

Lazonby

He gets owned in nearly every thread. He seems to like it.

After Shock Media

it just is a repeat of the wolves commercial.
Do not think it will work as well this time. However I learned to never under estimate the majority of stupid in this country.

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kane

That ad is just the standard issue Republican scaring of the herd. They have done it in the last two elections and it has worked so they are trying it now. You would think that people would look at the commercial and see pictures of Bin Laden and think to themselves, "Why should I vote for someone who has promised to catch this guy, yet can't seem to get the job done?"

The repubs are desperate. They are down in almost all the polls and are staring losing both the house and senate to the dems in the face. With the Folley scandal and the mess in Iraq, all they have left to push is ,"be afraid and we will protect you."

It's politics as usual. The question is will the dems have spine enough to stand up and point out the repub failures? If I'm a Dem running for a seat I would not shut up about how the repubs promise to keep you safe, but they do nothing to stop the flow of illegals into this country and in 5 years they still can't get Bin Laden, the Taliban is gaining strength again and the war in Iraq is a cluster fuck. How long do you accept people promises before you finally decide it's over? But most dems are wimps and they won't do that. If the Dems fail to get at least one of the houses of congress back this election will be a huge failure for them.

Webby

It has not gone unnoticed that you use the usual troll words.. (eg "bashing") - that says much.

Attempting to make claims of others "hiding" is both weak and funny. (You missed off the rhetoric about "shit countries" and the "third world"). I was never aware of "hiding" from anyone - I chose where to operate/live for good solid business and lifestyle reasons

Any person on this planet has the freedom to make comment on any subject they so desire. Perhaps this never crossed your mind? I understood your nation wanted to spread these rights of speech and freedom over the globe? Maybe I was wrong.

Regarding the "bashing" (you forgot "US bashing"), - any person is fully entitled to make comment on any nation who constantly can't shut the fuck up and behave. The fact that, least currently, the US is the talking point of the world - it is little surprise others may comment and criticise. Perhaps that also never crossed your mind?

I made a comment about the ethical and moral standards of political parties - nothing more, nothing less - and stand by these. The fact that you feel a need to make claims/assertions about me, rather than offer any constructive and unbiased opinion, clearly shows you either have vested interests or are unable to accept criticism.

Is it not in your own interest to see an option to choose from a selection of political parties who do not utilize crass base appeals to the fears of others in an attempt to get your vote?? If not, I'll start the "Fat People" party and tell them how being fat is good and healthy.

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travelingmike

another reason i left the US, I think the US people should stand up for themselves and speak out against Bush... They are too busy trying to climb over echothers back to get rich, buy bling, and mad rides, kill each other, or generaly fuck eachother over to care what is going on in their country. it really is a sad state..... Gooooo Canada,,,,

Webby

You clearly have a comprehension problem. Don't worry - just avoid posting.

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squishypimp

these fear ads to work to some extent on the american public though.

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Webby

They do squishy - they work anywhere, not just the US.

Joseph Goebbels was prob the master of propaganda - he developed the "fear" syndrome well. There are various versions of it - none original. All are based on creating an "enemy" then building up the anti by whatever means - claims of lies, life threats, whatever and "teaching" folks that these people are dangerous. The enemy could be *any* group - actual attackers, the girl at McDonalds or an opposing political party.

When the source of concern is firmly established - along comes the magical solution to stop all fears. In this case, vote for us - we will protect you, make you rich and wipe your ass. It can be funny

Tho you are correct - if the propaganda is sustained, it rubs off in the background and folks can be lead up the garden path to believe it is true - and where they purvey a constant fear threat - sure, people will believe it. Not that anyone can protect them if it was true - solid protection is a myth.

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Kimo

well put Webby

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Pleasurepays

riiiiight.... and constant banter and babble about US becoming a police state from the other side, is any different? two sides of the same coin... had you possessed any reasonable degree of objectivity that would be apparent. you are not talking about "truths" you are talking about different sides of the truth that you agree with and you confuse subjective perspective with objective fact

squishypimp

yup, worst part is the general population goes right along with what the political leaders in our nations say. Look at George W, we had no solid evidence and neither did the rest of the world that Iraq had nukes/weapons of mass destruction. Even countries like N. Korea knew that Iraq had no ability to harbor weapons of mass destruction. Yet George W convinced a nation to go to war with Iraq....

im starting to see that the world is being run by marketing gods and not by the actual political leaders that know how to deal with foriegn affairs

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DjSap

considering politics in the states is a fucking joke when it comes to campaign ads it's not really a schocker...when you have enough retards living in a country you will have stupid commercial that try to appeal to them...

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Lazonby

I think that all reporting on the enemies' activities and aims should cease until after the elections. Everyone can stay ignorant in the meantime. The most important thing is to not get accused of spreading propaganda on adult message boards.



"Muslim terrorists do not really want to kill you. It is not really mandated in the Qur'an and Hadiths that the 'enemies of Allah' must be fought until 'Allah's religion reigns supreme'. There are no bad people in the world except George Bush and Ann Coulter."

Webby

What exactly does your post have to do with the ethical/moral standards of proposed advertising by the Republican party?? Nothing.

However - I'll answer in the hope you at least comprehend fact - whether you consider this objective/subjective...

Is there still some confusion over a nation where it's citizens can be held without trial, where torture is condoned and implemented with the full authority of the government upon a leader's decision, where it's OK to spy on citizens - where habeas corpus, being a fundamental concept in the Constitution, has been removed?

What would you call a nation which embodies these fine principles every nation should aspire to??

It matters little what you or I think on what "words" to use - many would define these conditions as a "police state" others may use terms like "banana republic", "dictatorship" or whatever - the elements are fact whether you like it or not. Fact is the truth - it's not a matter of opinion. Neither are the principles of a democracy a matter of opinion - excuses don't count.

PS "Dictatorship" would not be a way I'd describe the US - at least, not yet.

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Lazonby

So, if I came up to you and said 'I have a knife and I am going to kill you', would you wait until you could see the knife or would you try to stop me/ run away before I had the chance to get it out and stab you?

Did North Korea not keep up with world affairs from the 1980s onwards then?

Webby

OK.. Will answer since you are least tried this time

This is old stuff and hardly worth comment - the facts are already admitted and several versions of alternative justification have been offered - all excuses with little merit.

The problem there is you never saw a knife. nor did you have access to some magical intelligence to say there was a knife. You *should* have had excellent intelligence to know the facts since you knew your chosen "enemy" very well and worked with him for decades in the past against another chosen "enemy", Iran.

Anyways... this is another unrelated diversion to the thread - it has nothing to do with the standards of political promotion in TV ads.

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squishypimp

wrong approach. Iraq had no means of obtaining nukes and the world knew it. Iraq was destroyed after the gulf war and had heavy sactions placed on it. so to put it back into the hypothetical that you placed with the "knife" deal, its like having an institutionalized crazy person (living in an insitution with 24/7 monitoring) coming up to you and saying "i have a knife and i am going to kill you." you know that they could not possibly have a knife because they are in an "institution where they are monitored 24/7." you take the threat alot less serious. Iraq under Saddam was alot like the "institionalized person that was monitored 24/7" they had no means to obtain these weapons, and they did not (as evident after the USA invaded and found no TRACE of a single weapon of mass destruction. not even anthrax or chemical agents)

you better believe they have kept up with world affairs since the 1980s. they are a struggling nation and have been looking for the attention of the world forever. its evident that they want the attention of the world and they found that they can do it by means of nukes. if you listen to what the N Korean government wants through many published statements, its to be at "super power status" much like the USA or China. you notice that Cuba is the exact opposite in that it wants to stay quiet and under the radar (which allows them alot more freedoms) N. Korea is trying to gain the power in the world that the USA & China already have and they feel they can do it by means of nukes.

in short, N. Korea is like that little kid who wants to be "big man on campus" but gets shunned out of society. unfortunately from what we have seen in the american school system about these types of "kids" is that they end up going into schools and killing everyone. N. Korea has got to be listened to and convinced to stop any nuclear programs before they get the bright idea of setting one of those nukes off and starting WWIII....

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Pleasurepays

everything.

both sides do the same thing and prey on the same behaviors of voters. just because you happen to agree with one side or the other doesn't make their behavior any more just or morally correct. there is no difference in a liberal complaining that Bush is using scare tactics to influence voters while making arguments that the country is being turned into a police state by republicans. both use fear to influence voters. neither is offering anything positive and gore/bush/kerry elections proved, presidential elections are now more about voting against the other guy than they are about voting for the best vision for the future and voting for the candidate that can most likely make that happen.

Pleasurepays

funny that no one can admit any political bias in these types of arguments. that in itself makes it pointless. people argue with an agenda... people post these threads with an agenda. its not in spirit of some objective quest for the "truth" whatever it may be and no matter how much it may conflict with their own views or world view.

being liberal or conservative and arguing that your side of a two sided argument is ALWAYS the right side... is the strongest single indicator of the ignorance and pointlessness of the discussion itself.. because no one is discussing or debating for knowledge, truth or enlightenment or anything else... they are discussing and debating with an agenda to defend their own views, belief systems and life perspectives and doing so with a closed mind.

Lazonby

Well, we knew that Saddam had WMD, we knew that he was prepared to use them, we knew that he said he had them, we knew that he said he wouldn't get rid of them and we knew that he was stopping the inspectors from seeing what they wanted to see.

Not that it really matters, because the war was always about regime change, with the WMD riddance being something of a bonus byproduct of regime change.

But in any case, we know that x hundred chemical weapon shells (some functional, some not) have been found in Iraq since the war and that the old factories used to manufacture them were dismantled and shipped to Syria, so there's no point now trying to claim that there never were any. And we know that the truckload of chemical weapons which was caught at the Syrian/ Jordanian border back in 2004 had to have come from somewhere.
But some people think that campaign videos reminding us that the enemy will stop at nothing to kill us are somehow inappropriate. For me, I don't need to see videos like that because I already know what the enemy wants and why, but there are millions of people out there who have never picked up a copy of the Qur'an or Hadiths and I don't think it's a bad thing for them to be reminded from time to time that there are some nasty people who want to kill them just for being American.

Lazonby

Well I'm not American but if it wasn't for being in wartime I would probably want a Democratic president in the US (even though I couldn't vote for it myself), but since it's wartime, even though the Republicans have only done a half-hearted job of fighting the Islamists, it's still way ahead of what the Democrats would have done. Remember how Clinton didn't do shit after US Cole, retreated from Somalia, sent a couple of Tomahawks into the desert after the African Ambassy bombings and gave up multiple opportunities to have Bin Laden handed to him on a plate. Oh and my favourite, when he decided to bomb a baby milk factory in retaliation for one outrage.
Bin Laden said himself that he was emboldened by such a display of weakness.
If the Dems get in then the generation afterwards will have to put up with bring nuked, simple as that. You win a war by defeating your enemy, not by flirting with him.

Pleasurepays

it simply can't be argued about what "democrats would have done" because it can't be proven or disproven. like webby, you posting to defend your own political bias and views.

FYI - Clinton withdrew from Somalia because the voting public wanted that.

Webby

OK.. Let's get this straight I don't give a shit about either Republicans, Democrats, Liberals, Communists or the Klu Klux Clan.

The fact that the subject matter of the news article was even written makes it clear there is a silly problem - DUH? If it not not worthy of note in international media - these pieces would not be published. It is preying on voters fears and is not exactly above swamp life level, especially considering the background and 9/11 incident.

It matters little which political persuasion elected to used these tactics - it's not about political persuasion - it's about crass, transparent and unethical advertising.

Sure... can see all that matters is now one side trashing the other. It is very rare any candidate deserves the trashing - there is often more substance behind a candidate than the desperate phiranna attacks to get votes. That bullshit does not assist a nation in any way and, only me, but would consider that it causes nothing but more damage and division. The "evidence" is regularly shown in comments on GFY - they really belong in the propaganda dept of the Third Reich

A nation matters more than a shoal of political parties thrashing around in the water desperately trying to gain votes and control - then, when in power, they supposed to *serve". Remember that word? It means carrying out the wishes of the electorate without fraud, lies, according to the laws and personal agenda's blah -

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scottybuzz

yo webby son, how come your not green yet? and theres too many words in this thread, so when is the next u.s. election?

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Webby

Well... the problem is "we" did not know anything.

Now "we" do know something - there are no WMD.

Kinda surprised you are still maintaining this when it is now well-known not to be true - after several desperate attempts to prove otherwise.

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Pleasurepays

right... you dont care... yet your posts are consistently liberal and consistently bashing the US.

we dont live in nazi germany. we live in a democracy that functions just as every other healthy democracy on the planet... a democracy with parties attempting to appeal to voters by creating monsters to protect them from. that monster might be the threat of unchecked immigration as it is right now in europe or it might be terrorism adn security as it in for the ruling party in the US and predictably, that monster for the party wanting control of the government is the current government. wow. what a surprise. how unique. how totally unexpected.

whether you want to admit it or not... you continually bash the US. you do have a position and you do have a bias. whether you want to admit it a lot, you are fairly liberal, so in the context of US politics, you have a bias towards the views and beliefs (at least as they proclaim them to be) of the democratic party. you turn any argument around and against the US - whether its Iran wanting to fight and destroy the world or if its a rogue country like N Korea threatening war when its clear that no amount of dimplomacy with correct their course or sway them. you dont do it because you really honestly support N Korea or Kim Jong Il... like directfiesta, you do it because for you, it simply presents one more opportunity to post a pic of Rumsfeld shaking Saddams hand and to take a bunch of worthless shots with arguments out of context, and subjective ideas presented as fact, simply to affirm your own convictions that the USA is bad.

at the end of the day, nothing has changed. you attract a few more jabs of those that agree with you for a little uplifting pat on the back for the day, and if you're lucky, you might drag 1-2 idiots who don't share your views, shamelessly presenting one side of a two sided discussion as if thats the whole picture... meanwhile, the earth keeps turning on its axis and real problems exist that demand solutions - which you, your arguments and your ideas are never a part of. ;)

Webby

Yo scotty

Ah.. there's not a green political party here, tho they already have over 25% of the country under preservation and there is an aura of people using their brain as far as eco and biodiversity is concerned - so not sure of the chances of success in "green" politics They already know far more than I would ever know about their country and it's environment.

Think there is an election early next month on the US - midterm stuff.

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Webby

Oh fuck...

For the "bashing the US" (wondering when you would manage to get the full term going) - read above - it was already covered from your previous attempt to talk shit

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Webby

OK.. Let's waste 5 mins and answer the obvious...

Correct - I'm assuming, you live in the US? If so, 10 marks for geography.

Nope - you used to live in a healthy democracy that fuctions just like others on the planet. Democracies do not imprison people without trial - nor do they condone torture and violate human rights treaties to the point of torturing to organ failure or possible death. They all, without exception, provide certain rights - one is where they provide children with rights universally accepted. Unfortunately US children are not privy to these rights as defined by the Convention on the Rights of the Child. Bottom line - please don't confuse the US with "every other healthy democracy", but I'd hope you push forward in obtaining these rights and freedoms you once had and hoped to spread throughout the world. The US has plenty going for it, but fudging the issue does not help and would be inaccuarate. Facts are easier to handle and indisputable.


Nothing wrong with anyone appealing to anyone on an honest basis and sell themselves by presenting .. excuse the dirty four letter word, "fact" and letting them decide on a vote. We are not talking about fact - we are talking about preying on fear on a questionable basis and inventing edited content and sound track to purvey information that no individual possesses. On that level - it's called lying.


Sorry to disappoint you - I don't post nice little pics of personalities like Rumsfeld or Saddam. Is the US "bad"?? You have the conviction that I think they US is "bad"? You are wrong - again. (Assumptions are always a dangerous thing - thought you may know that after recent history with your current leader).
No, I do not believe the US is bad - no country is "bad". People can be bad and I have no doubts, the current US admin are "bad" - not only for the US people, but the world as a whole. This is not exactly an original concept, - but one shared by the majority of the planet. And no, there are not all "jealous of our freedoms" and, yes, they must all be "US bashers"

The remainder of your post is simply the usual troll attack and with the usual droll keywords, "US bashing", "liberal", "bias" blah - tho it's clear never has there been a post of any "bias" on your part - depsite you have an obvious agenda on *something*.

Why do you feel a need to assume a criticism or comment on the lead thread of this post is a personal attack on you or your country? It was not. I don't care what your political beliefs are or where you originate from - you are entitled to your opinion. This, you have stated and loaded it with diversions, but interesting

The subject of the thread was unethical use of material in an attempt to incite fear in a population for the purpose of gaining votes, - nothing more, nothing less.



PS Remember to vote on November 7th - it's still your right

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minusonebit

Its nothing new. This is the same shit Hitler did to gain control. And I know how much the GOP lackeys hate to have their darling compared to Hitler, but Bush (and the whole GOP, for that matter) is so similar to Hitler in so many ways I am surprised we havent yet uncovered proof that they were joined at the hip.

QuaWee

the new clint eastwood movie

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he-fox

lol, I guess he was asking you "how comes you are not green" meaning why your nick isn't colored in green, having 12,000+ posts... @ scotty, useless postwhore.

Back to thread, I recently saw a poll saying that 65% of the americans are deceived by both parties and don't know if they would vote in these elections. This is really sad.

L-Pink

Actually his grandfather ran a private bank that laundered money for Nazi Germany. The bank and it's assets were seized by the federal government under "trading with the enemy" statues. Interesting story.

directfiesta

I am taking a piss now ....

Note: those WMD are now the highest frequent flyer miles earner.

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I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !

But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....

Webby

Hehe... Damn.. Never noticed - I might have to bow to TD to gain this awesome status

Suppose almost all people, irrespective of country, are conned by politicians at some point he-fox. It's the same where we are, but less of the removing of rights stuff and adopting unqualified moral highground and arrogance - they'd have their asses kicked (Suppose we are very lucky having Oscar in power - least he has sense and a clue of priorities and can resolve issues - including wars, - literally.)

Only my and can't say for sure - just smell a lot of apathy and "resignation" to leadership in the US - which is a damned shame if that is true. Can't think of any country who would give their Constitution over to anyone without at least a referendum or revolt/sacking. The issue of torture is just not on the table for discussion.

I used to live in the US a while back and it has changed one hell of a lot from the time I was there - not for the better unfortunately - and kinda feel sorry for friends there now.

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minusonebit

Oh really? Please send me a link on this... I want to know more. You are talking about Bush's grand daddy, right?

directfiesta

not talked about much... but here it is:

The Guardian has obtained confirmation from newly discovered files in the US National Archives that a firm of which Prescott Bush was a director was involved with the financial architects of Nazism.

This family profit base is from war.

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I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !

But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....

minusonebit

Unbe-fucking-liveable. I have known for some time that Bush and Hitler shared tactics, but I never knew there was such a direct link between the two families. Jesus H Christ.

L-Pink

Don't have a link.

I read 2-3 books a week, various fiction/non-fiction, I don't read history on the internet. There are numerous works devoted to American corporations and individuals that contributed to the Nazis, both before and during WW 2.

Henry Ford is one example, he firmly believed fascism was better than communism. When you look at the civilian population deaths Stalin and Mao are responsible for, Hitler was the "better" choice. When a New York Times reporter interviewed Hitler a couple of years prior to the war he noted the huge painting of Henry Ford behind Hitler's desk.

Ford Germany was one of the only Corporations NOT nationalized. It received diverted rubber and steel shipments. Tens of thousands of German troops rode to battle in Ford produced trucks. Slaves were purchased from the SS to work in the factory. Ford published a anti-Jew weekly newspaper, distributed thru his dealerships.

The famed German efficiency, railroads, who was Jewish (based on pre-war census) movement of supplies? IBM Hollerith tabulators.

L-Pink

Ever wonder why Jewish people didn't pretend (in large numbers) they weren't Jewish, pre-war census records (IBM) had them nailed before any danger was evident. Then used to round them up.

These machines used punch cards ONLY available thru IBM New York. These were purchased as needed before/during the war. European IBM employees maintained and kept back-ups. IBM european employees followed German troops into each captured territory. They also retreated from same territories helping maintain German efficiency.

NOTHING IS NEW GUYS ..... ESPECIALLY HUMAN BEHAVIOR.

Pleasurepays

Ford was also a huge fan of The Protocol of the Elders of Zion.

minusonebit

Wow, what an informative last few posts. I need to do some more reading, I am not as well versed in that time period as I once thought I was.

pocketkangaroo

Everyone is overlooking the fact that squishypimp made a post that was longer than 2 lines.

L-Pink

The only ones appalled at current events are those ignorant of history.