mikeyddddd

fiddy takes

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Manowar

Bump for Sleazy and his views

spasmo

No. See the post prior to this. They have no way of knowing every site I run. I promote other dating and cam sponsors.

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sacX

because it's a small shave across thousands of webmasters. Zango toolbar is still only a small percentage of browsers. You are losing sales, it's just too small for you to notice the impact.

Zango are the real villains here, but AFF supporting them certainly isn't a good look imo.

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Turboface

I'm sticking with AFF as one of my main sponsors. A person recommended promoting AFF to me a number of years ago and it was very good advice.

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darksoul

That wasn't the point.
First of all they can steal from you without knowing your other sites
they just bid on keywords and if it happens to be on your site the surfer
will get a popup with their landing page.

However, the question was if its ok for aff (and other sponsors) to use zango
even if it doesn't affects your bottom line.

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Tempest

They don't have to know your sites. They buy "keywords".. the Zango toolbar installed in the surfers browser triggers the popup depending on things like the keyword being in the domain the surfer goes to. So, for example, if you have a domain with "cam" or "cams" in it, then the aff/cams popups may be coming up over your stuff.

The only way for you to truly know how it's effecting you is to install the toolbar yourself and then start visiting your sites and clicking your links. You may be surprised.

emthree

Buisness is buisness.
Well put.

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spasmo

My point was that if they don't know of my other sites they must be stealing. The shit would pop up. I'm sure it does. It sucks.

It is not okay for anyone to use Zango, IMO. Will I cut off my nose to spite my face? No.

As for why everyone is on the attack against AFF specifically is beyond me. Why not attack them all? Is it because they are a huge target?

Every site I promote is done in a legitimate way on my end. If you are implying that I am stealing by having links to AFF, you've lost it. This is the internet, remember?

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spasmo

Been there, done that. An old P3 850 laptop Dell running XP on dialup (to eliminate the possibility that it's a source IP thing as well).

Yes, I'm being jacked. Can I stop it? No. Unless I can convince tens of thousands of other webmaster to stop promoting AFF. That would be a tough sell considering I'm not going to stop.

They convert.

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darksoul

Where do you come with this shit ?
Just because this is internet doesn't mean things shouldn't be taken seriously.
Where the heck did you see me mentioning anything about you stealing by using aff ?

I asked you a simple question of wether you think its ok for some sponsors to use zango.

Answering that is up to you if you continue to promote them or not.

As to why aff is the target, its probably because they're the biggest
and probably, unlike some other wannabe sponsors, the affiliates expected
more from a company such as aff ?

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L-Pink

Actually in business it's not how much you make, it's how long you can make it .... shitty businesses practices is very short sighted.

Tempest

That's hillarious.. "I'll continue to put money in the pocket of those stealing from me as long as they keep sending me some pennies."

Don't worry about it.. Some of us will continue to fight your battle for you since you don't have a spine.

spasmo

My apologies for for missing your point.

I do not think it's okay for sponsors to use Zango, but what is my choice? Drop AFF on principle?

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spasmo

You aren't seeing the bigger picture. If they are stealing from me and still convert better than anyone else, what do you suggest? This is starting to look like a smoke and mirrors attack.

Again, if they are stealing from me on some incredible level then why do I still get the credit for signups?

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spasmo

Very true. I've only been promoting them since the late 90s. Very short-sighted indeed.

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Tempest

You don't seem to understand the issue.. Perhaps the reason they convert better than the competitors you're trying is because they're poping up their AFF ads against the competitors your promoting and taking those sales from you and not giving you credit for that AFF sale.

I told you why you're still getting your AFF signups. They fixed the issue where they had been stealing sales and now they're not. i.e. what they're doing is not going to affect your AFF sales anymore. But it WILL affect your sales to other programs.

sacX

bottom line, is they're shaving you. Obviously not enough to make a big different so you're happy to live with it, and of course it's not just AFF.

I think it's a mistake to focus on the sponsors because Zango is the source of the problem. We need to treat the cause of the disease not the symptoms of it.

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Pointless

wonderful narrow minded crap

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Tempest

This is a WM and sponsor board so that's all one would see.. Who's to say it's the only thing going on? It's not. But the sponsors can stop doing what they're doing a lot faster then it will take to deal with Zango.

Mutt

How would you feel if you owned a hardware store, you worked years building up your clientele and reputation, you spend money advertising it - when your customers are in your store and checking out a product out of nowhere an interloper representing your competition jumps into his face and tells him there's another product, it's better and it's cheaper and he'll drive him over to
the competition? I guarantee you that anybody would kick the shit out of the interloper. On the Internet you have no way of doing anything about it - you are powerless - you have to stand there and watch your customers be taken away right out of your store.

As time goes by and this dirty business tactic gets more popular then you really will have people forced into doing the same thing or they will lose their business completely.

Right now Zango hasn't penetrated far enough to hurt anybody's bottom line substantially - when there are 10 Zango's out there it will. People right now are just outraged about the principal of the thing and scared of what happens when the problem grows larger and I don't see any reason why it won't get larger when you have companies like AFF making it a very profitable business for Zango.

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sacX

Zango have many customers we can't possibly hope to shut them all down one by one.

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darksoul

that wouldn't be so bad.

But its your choice.
I've made mine based on my beliefs and you do yours based on yours.
Its not like anyone is pointing a gun at you to drop them.

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spasmo

Okay. I really need to get to bed, so digest this.

Visit my main site (in my sig). I promote some AFF properties and have some fat banners for Pussy Cash. Serious real estate on my site...go look. Flash banner on the left and a huge one on the bottom. Those went up long before this thread.

So, are they converting or not converting? Is my site exempt from the Zango effect because I have AFF links up? If so, then they will convert, right?

After all, there will be no pop-ups for AFF when you hit Spasmodium if your theory is correct.

I hate Zango as much as the next guy, but let's target Zango.

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Pointless

NO fucking doubt

this shit would only ever happen in adult.


lol gotta love it

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TheSwed

I think you need to install Zango on your computer and surf your sites to understand the problem.

And the best way to target Zango is to stop the feeders.

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Tempest

Install Zango... Put a banner for a cam program on your site with a domain that contains "cam" in it like webcams.com etc. Click on that banner from your site like a surfer would and watch AFF/Cams popup over the site you were trying to get a sale for. Someone posted a screenshot of that exact situation earlier in the week.

You have to think in terms of how Zango can trigger the popups based on the keywords being bought. If YOU have a domain with the keywords in it, Zango will pop an ad over your site thus siphonnig some traffic away from your site. If the surfer clicks on one of your ads to go to a domain that has the keywords in it, Zango will pop an ad and thus hijack some potential sales.

You're not understanding how it works.

Let's be honest. You're not going to do anything. You're not going to punish AFF/Cams for stealing your traffic/sales and you're not going to go after Zango. And you'd rather we not keep bringing it up as it would be a constant reminder that you won't stand up for yourself.

Tempest

Self fullfilling prophecy when you do nothing...

sacX

um.. see http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?t=673921

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Tempest

You made your statement about applying pressure to companies like AFF/Cams and not Zango. Going after Zango will take time. AFF/Cams and the other like them can turn off their campaign in minutes. Both can be done, but not doing one will ensure it fails. Thus my reply is still correct.

sacX

It's not a matter of whether your statement was correct, you just seem to be dimissive of other ways of doing things.

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Tempest

Sorry is you got that from what I said. I was being dismissive to doing nothing. Nothing you had said indicated to me you were doing anything.

teksonline

it's sunday another week of logs to parse and purge,
log does not contain image hits

cat access_log|grep -c Zango

Note: I don't think 100% of all Zango installs say Zango, i believe
some might say FunToolBar, etc so this probably aint all the hits

40555 - page views, average page view per person 2.5
so at least 10,000 maybe more people got advertising on my
site with Zango getting the income... at .05 per ad view, thats $500
and 10,000 annoyed surfers thinking im popping shit up, not to mention
a possible 10,000 cookies changed to their codes?

small time? i think not, matter of fact, the more traffic you have the more like you are probably up in the 20-30% range, he'll you're a flashing fucking borken ATM machine spitting out money back to these thieves, as they can see what traffic you have, higher traffic means some agent is snooping your site and cashing in

Dirty Dane

As long my friends murder others, and not me, then its cool

jayeff

3 - 4 years ago, some webmasters realized that the quick way to grow a TGP was to buy traffic. Naturally they bought cheap, virtually worthless traffic, because that kept their investment down and meant their trade partners would be sending back more valuable traffic in exchange. A great scheme!

Except of course that the world doesn't stop turning, so it wasn't long before everyone and his brother began buying crap to build their sites. Surprise, surprise, productivity falls away and nowadays many are having to buy traffic constantly, just to stay in the game.

The end result is that no-one is getting good traffic for bad any more. They are all exchanging bad traffic, because the whole traffic pool is polluted. Hundreds of thousands of dollars which used to stay with TGP operators goes to traffic sellers, while at the same time income per visitor has dropped - I estimate - by at least 50% in the past 3 years. Not so smart after all...

Scumware is exactly the same. It provides an edge to those who participate, so long as they are in a small minority. But as soon as others get a hint that there is a profit to be made, the bandwagon will gather speed and before long, no-one but the scumware providers will be any better off.

It cannot be any other way because scumware does not generate a single extra sale for the market as a whole: all it does is divert traffic from one sponsor to another. Therefore every cent the scumware providers make, is straight off someone's bottom line: sponsors and affiliates alike. It is not just unethical to deal with scumware, it's plain dumb.

That's the objective viewpoint and I guess I'm not too surprised that relatively few seem to understand it. What does surprise me is the willingness of so many people to deal with sponsors who by any normal definition, are stealing from them. I cannot imagine, for example, meeting a sponsor at a show and not wanting to smack him in the mouth if I knew he was stealing so much as a cent from me. A thief is a thief. I don't care whether he empties the cash drawer or just takes some small change.

Paul Markham

By which time it might be too late for most.

Do what is best for you today and fuck tomorrow. When tomorrow arrives then try and change things.

Go take a history lesson.

Baddog, what if someone was hijacking your traffic?

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Paul Markham

I think you should read this. http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/200...sage_to_i.html

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Paul Markham

This is true, until another company jumps in and starts hijacking their traffic.

From what I've learned adware will hijack what ever traffic it's aimed at, by keywords. So if I want the "Dating" traffic for my site I just aim my adware campaign at anything looking for dating. Not financially profitable but illustrating a point.

So if the situation with adware increases more and more sponsors will be buying adware campaigns, simply because by logic they have more money to spend, so webmasters start to suffer more and more as their traffic gets hijacked.

Where does it stop?

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crockett

You obviously don't know WTF zango does if you can't understand how they are stealing money. This isn't the same as pop ups on tours.. If I want to send to a console free tour on most sponsors I can. I can choose if my surfers see them or not. Either I pick the non-console tour or I don't promote that sponsor.

With zango I have no choice because they force pop ups over the pages I send surfers to. That is stealing traffic, which as a matter of fact a little company called "Gator" got in to a shit load of trouble for doing the same exact thing.

But of course you claim you don't care because it doesn't affect you. So I ask you this. Why the fuck are you in all these threads defending AFF/Cams if none of this affects you?

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monro

SleazyDream!

Tell me who your freinds are and I can tell you how you are.

u-Bob

s9ann0

that was a good read thanks

SleazyDream

so you're gona drop very sponser that uses CCbill and epoch? cause they BOTH have clients that use zango?


fucking moron

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SleazyDream

you know what - come on all you fucking whin a lot trolls. put our fucking MONEY where your mouth is.

If you're gona drop AFF for using zango - then drop everyone - and that means you need to stop using credit card processors that process for companies that buy from zango.

whoops - that means there's almost no company they can use - sorry i forgot that


fucking morons

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SleazyDream

to be honest I couldn't give a fuck if you get stolen from. I'm only worried about MY pocketbook

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SleazyDream

here's some business advise. Concern yourself with your own pocketbook - not someone elses. Who gives a fuck how much someone else makes on a deal - your only worry is how much you made.

if you buy widgets for $20 and sell them for $25 and make millions - do you care that the guy who made the widgets made $19 a widget? NOT your concern. You shouldn't give a fuck about that.

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SleazyDream

this is a good point, a VERY good point. a VERY VERY good point

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darksoul

I didn't expected anything but a sleazy way of thinking from you.

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SleazyDream

what the fuck do you expect me to be? your fucking mommy?

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darksoul

even if we're in the porn business, I don't think we should have lower moral standards.
Seems some will do just about anything as long as their pocket is safe.

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