Too Much Media (NATS) announcement regarding verified joins and instant payouts - Page 3 - GoFuckYourself.com

BoyAlley · 12-04-2006, 11:54 AM

100 Unverified Sales!

DarkJedi · 12-04-2006, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoyAlley

Personally, I think there is a HUGE difference between using this "feature" for free signups vs. paid ones, and I think that's where the big problem is coming from.

Having "fraud screening" on free signups, many of which don't even require a user to enter a CC, so there is no processor scrubbing going on, is one thing.

Having it on transactions that have already been approved by a processor is a whole other, and raises most of the issues that have been brought up in this thread.

"FREE" trials do require a credit card.

TMM_John · 12-04-2006, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkJedi

22% looks kinda near 30% to me

So answer me, 20% of my sales are Credit Card fraud?

I think thats an issue you should contact Buddy about.

DarkJedi · 12-04-2006, 11:57 AM

Why hasn't anyone answered the question about what happenes to the "unverified" sales money?

Do they get refunded? If not, who gets to keep them?

John? Buddy?

TheDoc · 12-04-2006, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoyAlley

Personally, I think there is a HUGE difference between using this "feature" for free signups vs. paid ones, and I think that's where the big problem is coming from.

Having "fraud screening" on free signups, many of which don't even require a user to enter a CC, so there is no processor scrubbing going on, is one thing.

Having it on transactions that have already been approved by a processor is a whole other, and raises most of the issues that have been brought up in this thread.

Free signups DO go through epoch/ccbill, the program gets charged $ for the valid cc check. It is a real signup, through the real processors. PPS programs have huge fraud problems already, I'm sure fraud through free signups is even worse.

TheDoc · 12-04-2006, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkJedi

Why hasn't anyone answered the question about what happenes to the "unverified" sales money?

Do they get refunded? If not, who gets to keep them?

John? Buddy?

Sales money? It's a free signup.. If they don't rebill, login, ect.. Why would you make money on them?

DarkJedi · 12-04-2006, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

I'm sure fraud through free signups is even worse.

Why would it be worse?

Wouldn't carders rather get $40 on a paid trial then $20 on a free trial?

Why difference does it make to them? They're stealing anyway.

TheDoc · 12-04-2006, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkJedi

Why would it be worse?

Wouldn't carders rather get $40 on a paid trial then $20 on a free trial?

Why difference does it make to them? They're stealing anyway.

Why do carders fraud revshare programs? Because they think they can get away with $10 extra bucks. It isn't their card, they just want the money.

DarkJedi · 12-04-2006, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Sales money? It's a free signup.. If they don't rebill, login, ect.. Why would you make money on them?

Free trial automatically converts to full sale after 3 days.

DarkJedi · 12-04-2006, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Why do carders fraud revshare programs? Because they think they can get away with $10 extra bucks. It isn't their card, they just want the money.

I still don't follow you.

Why would free trials be worse fraud-wise?

$20 vs $40 ? what would you rather take?

DarkJedi · 12-04-2006, 12:09 PM

Anyway, fuck all that.

They want to use that bullshit "anti-fraud" crap? Whatever...

I've already redirected most of my traffic away from them, and will redirect the rest soon.

TheDoc · 12-04-2006, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkJedi

Free trial automatically converts to full sale after 3 days.

See, now that is a good question. Maybe they don't rebill the free signup if they don't login, or maybe you do get credit if they rebill. I don't know, a good question to ask though.

rhizome · 12-04-2006, 12:10 PM

Here are my stats since Flashcash switched to Nats

1450 signups
1308 verified signups

But the thing is I don't receive instant payments so the excuse that this extra fraud control needs to be put in place because Flashcash pays instantly does not not apply to accounts such as mine.

TheDoc · 12-04-2006, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkJedi

I still don't follow you.

Why would free trials be worse fraud-wise?

$20 vs $40 ? what would you rather take?

Who knows why, it just happens. Fraud is just retarted bad, cc fraud is so bad it's just stupid. I think they will work any method they feel can earn them money, free paid, pps or revshare.

I wish I had more fraud answers for you. But honestly it's bad. 85-90% of my refunds due to fraud members or webmasters. With CB's, most of those members never logged in, refunds is a different story.

DarkJedi · 12-04-2006, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

See, now that is a good question. Maybe they don't rebill the free signup if they don't login

Nigga please. I'm pretty sure it rebills automatically even if no one logged in.

That whole log in thing is bullshit too. Surfer signs up holding a dick in his hand and doesn't log it? Right...

DarkJedi · 12-04-2006, 12:20 PM

there are too many unanswered questions about all that.

TheDoc · 12-04-2006, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkJedi

Nigga please. I'm pretty sure it rebills automatically even if no one logged in.

That whole log in thing is bullshit too. Surfer signs up holding a dick in his hand and doesn't log it? Right...

It's safe to say, before fraud, traffic quality, ect.. That about 10% don't login for whatever reason. Almost ALL my chargebacks never logged in.

FC is a bit bigger than me, so I'm sure they have a few more problems with it than I do.

SCORE Ralph · 12-04-2006, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoyAlley

What this module NEEDS to do, is take those "unverified sales", and automatically make them "verified" so that affiliates get paid out on them, after X period of time has elapsed without refund or chargeback.

THAT's what needs to happen.

This way you're saying to the affiliate: Hey we'll give you instant payout on these sales that we're comfortable with. There are a few sales that are a little questionable to us, so we're going to hold those until the regular payout date, when you would have gotten payment for them anyway.

I don't think anyone would bitch about that.

Thats a very good point. An "unverified sale" doesnt necessarily end in fraud.

BTW, DarkJedi, you didnt specify any dates for the stats you posted... are they all from the same period? All time? Cant tell if each row is for each site or particular dates. Just curious.

RBC · 12-04-2006, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buddy

The FlashCash forum is in the process of being replaced and is not being regularly checked anymore.

Buddy, please visit your own forum and let webmasters know they are not listened anymore!

Thank you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buddy

This is a huge fraud magnet, requiring an enormous amount of man hours and technology to detect and prevent that fraud.

ok, how about trusting your affilates who works with your program for years?
how about switching this system for the people you can trust? is it possible?

As for the only program with free trials and instant payments.
What are those Instant payments for if our ratios went down with them. Webmasters need cash first imho.
I can wait till the end of period or make a hold time. Just let me know why others dont do that? Processors are using their ant-fraud systems why do we need another one?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buddy

?All of the FlashCash webmasters are having the same problem?. This is simply not the case.

How could you know? You are not reading your forum

Tempest · 12-04-2006, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkJedi

Why hasn't anyone answered the question about what happenes to the "unverified" sales money?

Do they get refunded? If not, who gets to keep them?

That's the only question that needs to be answered. A FREE Trial doesn't make any money for the program so nothing to be refunded. But some of us primarily promote the PAID trials and so we'd like to know. It certainly shouldn't be the case that the program keeps the money and we get shafted.

However.. It seems to me from this part of the TOS:

Flashcash pays for sales where the buyer logs in at least once to the site purchased. Based on years of data, if the surfer doesn't log in, the sale will normally credit or chargeback, so no payment is made.

That the policy is to simply not pay affiliates even if the payment ends up being a good one. How long does the surfer have to log in?

I understand the issue of not knowing what the "fraud protection" is doing. For all we know, it could also be monitoring the free to paid conversion and not verifying if a WMs ratio gets too bad. We should at least be informed if this is the case or not.

Flashcash needs to clarify the policies and the TOS.

Bro Media - BANNED FOR LIFE · 12-04-2006, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoyAlley

What I'd say is that this module is poorly conceived, and even more poorly implemented.

I think that what happened is 1 client of theirs said hey we'll move to your software if you can make it do X, and Nats made it do X and released it to everyone else as well, perhaps without putting enough thought into it.

Look at it this way:

What percentage of "unverified" signups become real-world refunds or chargebacks? That's the REAL number everyone should be asking about.

If 99% of "unverified" signups turn into real-world chargebacks or refunds, then 1% of "unverified" signups are legitimate, and affiliates are losing 1% of that income.

While I have no data, coming from an information security and user profiling background, I can tell you I HIGHLY HIGHLY HIGHLY doubt that this system would be ANYWHERE NEAR that number.

So if the system is 99% effective on "unverifieds", affiliates lose 1% of sales of those. What happens if it's 90% effective? Affiliates lose 10% of "unverified" sales that are actually legitimate.

That starts to add up to a LOT of money, and if there's no way for an affiliate to know they'll eventually get credit for those sales or not, they have every right to be bitchy.

What this module NEEDS to do, is take those "unverified sales", and automatically make them "verified" so that affiliates get paid out on them, after X period of time has elapsed without refund or chargeback.

THAT's what needs to happen.

This way you're saying to the affiliate: Hey we'll give you instant payout on these sales that we're comfortable with. There are a few sales that are a little questionable to us, so we're going to hold those until the regular payout date, when you would have gotten payment for them anyway.

I don't think anyone would bitch about that.

It sounds like flashcash was mostly using this system to protect themselves with their free signups program (from what I understand), but now that it can also be used by programs for paid signups as well, the ill conceived notion of this entire system becomes amplified.

the best thing i read in this whole thread

Nysus · 12-04-2006, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PBucksJohn

No, you do not get paid for unverified signups until they become verified. I didn't think there was any confusion there. If you don't like the numbers, don't use the program. We are requiring and making sure that any program that uses the feature is fully up front with you about the #s (how many are verified and how many non-verified you have). If you don't like the #s, don't use the program. They're not lying to you about it or trying to fool you. They are doing what they have to do to offer the services they offer.

Do unverified signups ever disappear? Or would they go into a 'not valid signup' so then at least know?

Matt

RawAlex · 12-04-2006, 03:56 PM

That is another part of the deal... how long does a surfer have to signup AND log in to make the signup valid? Let's say he joins up, and as he hits the join button, wifey comes into the room and he quickly surfs off to CNN. Wifey never leaves, and instead lures him off to watch a movie or take out the garbage or something. So he doesn't log on until the next time he is alone at the PC, say, 4 days later.

Was he a valid sale? Or would his failure to log on rapidly after the signup process suggest an invalid signup and therefore the webmaster doesn't get credited, even if he in factis a valid and paying member?

It would seem to me that this is a very important question!

BVF · 12-04-2006, 04:21 PM

If it's INSTANT payouts on FREE signups, then I can understand the policy...I don't know if DJ gets paid instantly or not but if he isn't, he should have the right to not have his account scrubbed as hard as a free instant payout affiliate.

james_clickmemedia · 12-04-2006, 04:28 PM

Interesting thread...

james_clickmemedia · 12-04-2006, 04:29 PM

I guess 1 sale + 1 sale no longer = 2 sales..

TMM_John · 12-04-2006, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RawAlex

That is another part of the deal... how long does a surfer have to signup AND log in to make the signup valid? Let's say he joins up, and as he hits the join button, wifey comes into the room and he quickly surfs off to CNN. Wifey never leaves, and instead lures him off to watch a movie or take out the garbage or something. So he doesn't log on until the next time he is alone at the PC, say, 4 days later.

Was he a valid sale? Or would his failure to log on rapidly after the signup process suggest an invalid signup and therefore the webmaster doesn't get credited, even if he in factis a valid and paying member?

It would seem to me that this is a very important question!

There is an unlimited timespan for logging in to verify the join. It can be 1 day, 10 days, 100 days. Once its verified its verified.

TMM_John · 12-04-2006, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nysus

Do unverified signups ever disappear? Or would they go into a 'not valid signup' so then at least know?

Matt

No. It's signups and verified signups. "non-verified signups" would be the difference.

The total signup count will always be shown and once a signup is verified it is added into stats on the day it is verified. Nothing ever disappears.

So, you could in effect have more verified signups for a day than you do unverified.

JD · 12-04-2006, 04:46 PM

sounds like "legalized" shaving imho...

Nysus · 12-04-2006, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PBucksJohn

No. It's signups and verified signups. "non-verified signups" would be the difference.

The total signup count will always be shown and once a signup is verified it is added into stats on the day it is verified. Nothing ever disappears.

So, you could in effect have more verified signups for a day than you do unverified.

Okay -- so, the non-verified signups are still paid for by a credit card, correct? Is there a way to ever know how many of those end up recurring / being rebilled, or what status each one is in?

Matt

RBC · 12-04-2006, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PBucksJohn

There is an unlimited timespan for logging in to verify the join. It can be 1 day, 10 days, 100 days. Once its verified its verified.

The problem is we never know when and which is verified.

RBC · 12-04-2006, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPeRMiNaToR

sounds like "legalized" shaving imho...

it looks like this,
because there are more verivied then unverivied 1 day per month maybe?usually 20-30% are sha... unverified

Tempest · 12-04-2006, 05:00 PM

I just checked my all time stats with FlashCash..

25% of my PAID TRIAL signups don't verify.

wyldblyss · 12-04-2006, 05:13 PM

And the story goes like this.....

NATS comes along and markets to the WEBMASTERS.....they know that webmasters HATE shaving...so they market to them as "shave proof" and the wembasters just can't get enough of it.

Program owners then feel the pressure to move to NATS, whether they like it or not.....

NATS feels they rule the adult industry and starts making the rules...program owner that use the software have NO CHOICE but to follow the rules...

NATS gets way too much authority....and the tide changes...not only do they have way too much authority...they demand more....and then webmasters sees sales drop....because NATS has once again decided to make changes in HOW many sales program owners can pay out...

And then you hear someone whisper in the background "be careful what you wish for, but you just may get it"

Appears their "anti-shave program" prevents shaving...but also prevents you from getting paid on sign-ups you should be paid for.

To be continued.....

JD · 12-04-2006, 05:14 PM

Buuuuuuuumpo

RawAlex · 12-04-2006, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PBucksJohn

No. It's signups and verified signups. "non-verified signups" would be the difference.

The total signup count will always be shown and once a signup is verified it is added into stats on the day it is verified. Nothing ever disappears.

So, you could in effect have more verified signups for a day than you do unverified.

My feeling here is that you have opened a very simple route for shaving. Set the "verified" bar pretty high, and at some point, modify or shift the information to reflect that signup as not being for the affiliate anymore, and away you go.

It also doesn't seem to consider the concept of someone who signs up and never visits the site, but continues to pay. That would be 1 for the program, I guess.

If all of this is to do instant payouts, then let me just say that instant payouts are about as useful as a case of beer at an AA meeting.

interracialtoons · 12-04-2006, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkJedi

PMdave · 12-04-2006, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wyldblyss

And the story goes like this.....

NATS comes along and markets to the WEBMASTERS.....they know that webmasters HATE shaving...so they market to them as "shave proof" and the wembasters just can't get enough of it.

Program owners then feel the pressure to move to NATS, whether they like it or not.....

NATS feels they rule the adult industry and starts making the rules...program owner that use the software have NO CHOICE but to follow the rules...

NATS gets way too much authority....and the tide changes...not only do they have way too much authority...they demand more....and then webmasters sees sales drop....because NATS has once again decided to make changes in HOW many sales program owners can pay out...

And then you hear someone whisper in the background "be careful what you wish for, but you just may get it"

Appears their "anti-shave program" prevents shaving...but also prevents you from getting paid on sign-ups you should be paid for.

To be continued.....

I never understood the "they use NATS so they don't shave and are good people"-mentality. WTF???
I don't do, never did and never will do biz with people I don't trust. Trust is the keyfuture for me to promote a program: trust in the people who run it and the sites they make. And what software they use? I don't give a shit!
And saying or suggesting "we don't shave because or software doesn't allow us to" just places a big red flag after the name for me.

miss_twisted · 12-04-2006, 06:18 PM

John, could you clarify one thing for me, I probably just missed it. Does this extra scrub affect all sales or just instant payout sales?

Is this additional scrub something that could be turned off if a company thought the initial scrub was sufficient?

TheDoc · 12-04-2006, 06:23 PM

I'm missing why this thread is still a big deal?

This is a money program, like any other programs, program. Programs can't just use it, and the program has to state its being used. Since this is currently being used for "FREE" signups mostly, you wouldn't be paid on those anyway. And since the "program" has set the pay rules to pay at that point, what is the problem?

The program and NATS aren't hiding anything, you should be happy.

xxxjay · 12-04-2006, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkJedi

Yesterday, you said you were going to answer what "verified signups" meant.

I don't see the answer.

What's the point of your "announcement"?
I haven't learned anything knew from it.

Pay no attention to Dark Jedi...he is a moon cricket.

xxxjay · 12-04-2006, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

I'm missing why this thread is still a big deal?

This is a money program, like any other programs, program. Programs can't just use it, and the program has to state its being used. Since this is currently being used for "FREE" signups mostly, you wouldn't be paid on those anyway. And since the "program" has set the pay rules to pay at that point, what is the problem?

The program and NATS aren't hiding anything, you should be happy.

That's what I'm saying. No conspriacy here...sorry guys...get back to Zango!

interracialtoons · 12-04-2006, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxxjay

Pay no attention to Dark Jedi...he is a moon cricket.

Hello, you use nats and my stats are very very bad.
So bad as to hardly be believable.

I actually think my account was disabled for some reason but noone will tell me.

Tempest · 12-04-2006, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Since this is currently being used for "FREE" signups mostly

Wrong. I do almost all paid trials and 25% of those aren't verifying.

Do 25% of your signups get trashed after they've gone thru ccbill etc.?

rounders · 12-04-2006, 06:46 PM

id like to get some more information on this as well

Snake Doctor · 12-04-2006, 07:00 PM

I see that Dark Jedi is still an ass munch, always out to stir up shit and try to make programs look bad.

Buddy offered several times to speak with you privately and answer all of your questions about the program and you refused to contact him, instead choosing to try and make him look bad in public.

You're a pathetic attention whore.

12clicks · 12-04-2006, 07:18 PM

this is what happens to an industry that continues to cater to the lowest common denominator. More free porn, higher payouts, higher payouts, weekly payouts, daily payouts, INSTANT payouts!

when I started out as a free site webmaster I conducted myself as a businessman, I only dealt with other businessmen. I was paid monthly. I wasn't in business to score beer money by the end of the day.
Instant payouts?
Here's an idea, program owners, conduct your business the way that would make your grandparents proud of your ethics. Affiliates, stop acting like you're in this business until next week.

No offense to FC, they are providing a service someone thinks is necissary.
Its a sad commentary on the state of the industry that we're foolish enough to think its necissary, and even sadder that we accomodate it.

interracialtoons · 12-04-2006, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12clicks

this is what happens to an industry that continues to cater to the lowest common denominator. More free porn, higher payouts, higher payouts, weekly payouts, daily payouts, INSTANT payouts!

when I started out as a free site webmaster I conducted myself as a businessman, I only dealt with other businessmen. I was paid monthly. I wasn't in business to score beer money by the end of the day.
Instant payouts?
Here's an idea, program owners, conduct your business the way that would make your grandparents proud of your ethics. Affiliates, stop acting like you're in this business until next week.

No offense to FC, they are providing a service someone thinks is necissary.
Its a sad commentary on the state of the industry that we're foolish enough to think its necissary, and even sadder that we accomodate it.

It's "necessary" to use spell-check.

BoyAlley · 12-04-2006, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by interracialtoons

It's "necessary" to use spell-check.

12clicks actually made some very good points in his post. While your reply is, well, stewpid.

quantum-x · 12-04-2006, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by interracialtoons

Hello, you use nats and my stats are very very bad.
So bad as to hardly be believable.

I actually think my account was disabled for some reason but noone will tell me.

You sure get your accounts disabled a lot don't you.

12-04-2006, 11:54 AM	#101
BoyAlley So Fucking Gay Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 19,714	100 Unverified Sales! Last edited by BoyAlley; 12-04-2006 at 11:56 AM..

12-04-2006, 12:20 PM	#116
DarkJedi No Refunds Issued. Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: GFY Posts: 28,300	there are too many unanswered questions about all that. Last edited by DarkJedi; 12-04-2006 at 12:22 PM..

12-04-2006, 04:21 PM	#124
BVF Black Vagina Finder Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Midwest Posts: 13,975	If it's INSTANT payouts on FREE signups, then I can understand the policy...I don't know if DJ gets paid instantly or not but if he isn't, he should have the right to not have his account scrubbed as hard as a free instant payout affiliate. __________________ Black Pussy Click On Mr Cosby..CCbill, 60/40, 136 FHG's....The Cos Loves Black Ghetto Pussy!!

12-04-2006, 04:28 PM	#125
james_clickmemedia Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Texas / London Posts: 2,204	Interesting thread... __________________ $ CLICKMEMEDIA.COM $ CONVERTING ETHNIC TRAFFIC SINCE 1998 ~ $30+PPS BLACK-X.COM - NEW BLACK EX-GF SITE CLICKMEMEDIA.COM ~ ICQ - 8788771

12-04-2006, 04:29 PM	#126
james_clickmemedia Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Texas / London Posts: 2,204	I guess 1 sale + 1 sale no longer = 2 sales.. __________________ $ CLICKMEMEDIA.COM $ CONVERTING ETHNIC TRAFFIC SINCE 1998 ~ $30+PPS BLACK-X.COM - NEW BLACK EX-GF SITE CLICKMEMEDIA.COM ~ ICQ - 8788771

12-04-2006, 11:57 AM	#104
DarkJedi No Refunds Issued. Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: GFY Posts: 28,300	Why hasn't anyone answered the question about what happenes to the "unverified" sales money? Do they get refunded? If not, who gets to keep them? John? Buddy?

12-04-2006, 12:09 PM	#111
DarkJedi No Refunds Issued. Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: GFY Posts: 28,300	Anyway, fuck all that. They want to use that bullshit "anti-fraud" crap? Whatever... I've already redirected most of my traffic away from them, and will redirect the rest soon.

12-04-2006, 12:10 PM	#113
rhizome Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 788	Here are my stats since Flashcash switched to Nats 1450 signups 1308 verified signups But the thing is I don't receive instant payments so the excuse that this extra fraud control needs to be put in place because Flashcash pays instantly does not not apply to accounts such as mine.

12-04-2006, 03:56 PM	#123
RawAlex So Fucking Banned Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: In a house. Posts: 9,465	That is another part of the deal... how long does a surfer have to signup AND log in to make the signup valid? Let's say he joins up, and as he hits the join button, wifey comes into the room and he quickly surfs off to CNN. Wifey never leaves, and instead lures him off to watch a movie or take out the garbage or something. So he doesn't log on until the next time he is alone at the PC, say, 4 days later. Was he a valid sale? Or would his failure to log on rapidly after the signup process suggest an invalid signup and therefore the webmaster doesn't get credited, even if he in factis a valid and paying member? It would seem to me that this is a very important question!

12-04-2006, 04:46 PM	#129
JD Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 22,651	sounds like "legalized" shaving imho...

12-04-2006, 05:00 PM	#133
Tempest Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: May 2004 Location: West Coast, Canada. Posts: 10,217	I just checked my all time stats with FlashCash.. 25% of my PAID TRIAL signups don't verify.

12-04-2006, 05:13 PM	#134
wyldblyss Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The Buck Starts Here Posts: 5,779	And the story goes like this..... NATS comes along and markets to the WEBMASTERS.....they know that webmasters HATE shaving...so they market to them as "shave proof" and the wembasters just can't get enough of it. Program owners then feel the pressure to move to NATS, whether they like it or not..... NATS feels they rule the adult industry and starts making the rules...program owner that use the software have NO CHOICE but to follow the rules... NATS gets way too much authority....and the tide changes...not only do they have way too much authority...they demand more....and then webmasters sees sales drop....because NATS has once again decided to make changes in HOW many sales program owners can pay out... And then you hear someone whisper in the background "be careful what you wish for, but you just may get it" Appears their "anti-shave program" prevents shaving...but also prevents you from getting paid on sign-ups you should be paid for. To be continued.....

12-04-2006, 05:14 PM	#135
JD Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 22,651	Buuuuuuuumpo

12-04-2006, 06:18 PM	#139
miss_twisted Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 425	John, could you clarify one thing for me, I probably just missed it. Does this extra scrub affect all sales or just instant payout sales? Is this additional scrub something that could be turned off if a company thought the initial scrub was sufficient? __________________ I have no siggy and I want no siggy.. damn no I have one again!

12-04-2006, 06:23 PM	#140
TheDoc Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Currently Incognito Posts: 13,827	I'm missing why this thread is still a big deal? This is a money program, like any other programs, program. Programs can't just use it, and the program has to state its being used. Since this is currently being used for "FREE" signups mostly, you wouldn't be paid on those anyway. And since the "program" has set the pay rules to pay at that point, what is the problem? The program and NATS aren't hiding anything, you should be happy. __________________ ~TheDoc - ICQ7765825 It's all disambiguation

12-04-2006, 06:46 PM	#145
rounders Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: p0rn0stars & h0es Posts: 2,931	id like to get some more information on this as well __________________ ICQ#: 153923840

12-04-2006, 07:00 PM	#146
Snake Doctor I'm Lenny2 Bitch Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: On top of my soapbox Posts: 13,449	I see that Dark Jedi is still an ass munch, always out to stir up shit and try to make programs look bad. Buddy offered several times to speak with you privately and answer all of your questions about the program and you refused to contact him, instead choosing to try and make him look bad in public. You're a pathetic attention whore. __________________ sig too big

12-04-2006, 07:18 PM	#147
12clicks Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: God's right hand Posts: 19,785	this is what happens to an industry that continues to cater to the lowest common denominator. More free porn, higher payouts, higher payouts, weekly payouts, daily payouts, INSTANT payouts! when I started out as a free site webmaster I conducted myself as a businessman, I only dealt with other businessmen. I was paid monthly. I wasn't in business to score beer money by the end of the day. Instant payouts? Here's an idea, program owners, conduct your business the way that would make your grandparents proud of your ethics. Affiliates, stop acting like you're in this business until next week. No offense to FC, they are providing a service someone thinks is necissary. Its a sad commentary on the state of the industry that we're foolish enough to think its necissary, and even sadder that we accomodate it. __________________ I'm not a dinosaur, I'm a crocodile. I've seen dinosaurs come and go and I'm left unimpressed.