pr0

Do something about it. Start making fake torrents & flooding the networks with them. Do something pro-active to kill their viability in a legal way.

Crying about it isn't going to do shit. And the sponsors will continue to do business with them so long as millions of people visit them everyday. Period.

In other words, spend your time coming up with a plan of action to protect your content. Because in the real world....crying doesn't solve a problem...unless your a bitch trying to get some jewerly from your boyfriend.

A whole lot of talk on this board & ZERO action.

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tranza

It would be nice to see sponsors acting too. It's easier for them to kill these kind of sites than the small webmasters taking their time to fight them.

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BJ

kind of like voting...lol

he-fox

fake torrents in huge amounts is the way to go.

beemk

i agree, even if the sponsors did drop them... there will always be more people who will take their traffic waiting in line.

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SmokeyTheBear

the music industry does that a bit , but the way they solve it is by suing end users among other things
i dont buy that argument. you dont see porn ads on warez sites or child porn .



i dont see anyone crying . i see alot of affiliates who have no control asking the companies they work for to take a stand. many others are working behind the scenes to solve the problem

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Nasty

Everyone bitching about torrent sites, What about sites like megaupload.com and rapidshare.com

On alexa they are up there with blogger and ebay, way more traffic and a much bigger threat imho

http://www.alexa.com/data/details/tr...megaupload.com
http://www.alexa.com/data/details/tr...rapidshare.com


http://www.alexa.com/data/details/tr...epiratebay.org

notabook

Fake torrents? You actually think that would work??? With the hundreds of private torrent communities? With the hundreds of invite-only torrent communities that are springing up left and right everyday?

Say you do spend hours, or days getting signed up to these private communities and start uploading fake shit. How long do you think it's going to take for people with BROADBAND connections to see you are uploading shit, then ban your IP and delete any and all torrents you have contributed? Jesus...

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Daruma

for fake torrents.. what would anyone recommened?

tv stuff mislabled?
full sports games mislabled?

I think this solution might help if the volume was sooo massive..

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Snake Doctor

You're basically damned if you do and damned if you don't.

If you use DRM it kills your recurring, the review sites bash you, and it gets around on the surfer forums.

If you don't use any type of DRM then you can't stop someone from downloading your whole members area and creating a torrent out of it.

donkevlar

Not many here seem to know anything about torrents at all...

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SmokeyTheBear

the music industry does it and it does work.
to be fair this isnt where the problem is.. these private communities dont hurt the industry as much as the open large ones.



lol its not that simple. you would use much the same methods they use , rotating ip's on hundreds of computers.

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tony286

you have a very good point.

Aussie Rebel

Fake torrents get flagged as fake by surfers and they are either labeled fake or deleted

notabook

No, it doesn't work. Well if you consider annoying someone only slightly and it takes them 30 more seconds to find a working file, then in which case I guess you could consider it to "work". We're not dealing with dial-up connections anymore. You are in the age of broadband. You are in the age of someone being able to download a 700MB movie in under 30 minutes. It takes seconds to download a 3MB MP3, then add a comment that it's fake so that others can avoid it.

Even so... the fake torrents uploaded really can only affect the public torrent sites. It will do SHIT against private torrent sites, especially those that are invite-only.


The problem is getting bigger with the private communities everyday and more and more people are getting their torrents from there. True, the problem isn't AS big as the public torrent sites, but it's getting there. It’s a cancer and not the good kind either. Wait.. there’s a good kind of cancer? Yep, the chocolate ones, they are delicious.


Even so, in the age of broadband this is nothing more than a slight annoyance factor. The amount of time and money needed to start up this service to "combat piracy" wouldn't pay off. It just wouldn't dissuade enough people to warrant the creation. I mean seriously... I don't have cable (I have crappy DSL) but one of my friends has the cheapest package from them. He can download something at like 700kbps.... he can download an entire DVD-rip (4.37GB) in 3 to 4 hours. That's crazy!

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SmokeyTheBear

im a pretty savvy fellow and i have noticed that shills for software companies and music industry do exactly that . they go to these torrent sites and say "fake" when the files are real so they use the opposite of what your saying to flag good files as bad..

I know from personal experience i went to find a cd that i own , that i wanted to listen to on my mp3 player, fuck if every song i could find was a fake file.. i wasted a half hour then went and found my cd and ripped it myself..








its more than a slight annoyance. most isp's have caps on downloads. infact in my area the fastest residential package would only allow you to download 20 full dvd's per month.. if 10 of them are fakes , you just fucked yourself

Its not THE solution its part of a multi-pronged approach. make it harder to get the files, then start some lawsuits against downloaders individually.

did you know the recording industry made MILLIONS last year suing college kids , thats just from the ones that SETTLED out of court ( i.e. dad and mom footed the bill to avoid a court case ) imagine if the lawsuit wasnt "britney spears mp3" but "ass raped blondes" heh , i think alot more people would settle out of court

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notabook

Only twenty full dvd’s? 90GB of Data? MONTHLY? God you people with your bandwidth… I hate DSL :\ LOL. Anyways… as long as the files are not .rar’d up, i.e. that it’s an .AVI file (or another viewable extension) you can preview the data to see exactly what it is so it is not necessary to waste hours and your bandwidth downloading it if it’s a junk file or something like the MTV music awards. In fact many torrent clients have this feature built in (preview mode) so that is covered…. fake data just isn’t going to cut it and you will just end up wasting more money than you would have if you hadn’t bothered to do it in the first place.


I had the same problem when I was looking for MP3’s from Hanson’s Boomerang album! (seriously, not really, I found them all in less than two minutes!) [ok, super seriously, not really, I don’t download music for the most part, I can’t stand the vast majority of music. I’ve gotten maybe 5 mp3s before of ‘American’ music]. The biggest types of private communities though are MP3 communities from what I can tell, and I'm betting that if you looked there you could find that CD with all files working and ready to download in minutes.



You are making it *slightly* harder to get files. And I stress the word slightly. It will just end up pushing more people to go to private communities, and making the existing public communities change the ways that they accept uploaded torrents. On the lawsuit recommendation, you and I completely agree. It’s pretty straight forward and most people cave with a settlement under 3k bucks, many adult companies could actually make some nice bank doing that. Even more would end up settling than would in RIAA cases. It’s one thing to tell a judge you didn't download the “Happy Birthday” song. With porn it’s a whole different issue. Who wants to risk going to court and have to tell a judge that you didn't download Tranny Anal Busters III? You would shame most of them into settling, so yes, we agree on lawsuits completely!

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crockett

I've checked out a few of those sites to see what could be done. Most of them have commits and fake seeds would never do anything because others would warn them in the commits.

If it were my content being stolen I think I'd have to get together with a few others whom also were losing content. Then hire some Russian hackers to attack the sites.

Not saying Russians just because they had a bad rap, but because even if caught they can't be extradited to face trial out side Russia.

I say fight fire with fire..

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RawAlex

yup, if I vote, I make a difference.

If I convince 20 people to change their votes, then I made a bigger difference.

Bitching in this forum and others is the best way to find 20 people to make them change with me. Maybe even to get those companies to be more sensitive to the issue, and perhaps change their business models - or at least make enough people aware that some people stop doing business with them.

AFF's middle finger extended approach to deal with this issue makes them look terrible, and hopefully any number of webmasters will stop dealing with them.

AVN's totally weak ass "it isn't our business" excuse about adbrite is fucking laughable (Their AVNads program is DNSed to adbrite.com) should be another reason why people consider NOT going to AVN shows and not supporting a company that is suppose to be an industry leader and instead appears to be approaching bottom feeder status.

On the other side, Juicy's management of the issues that face fleshlight and torrent sites shows that smart companies and smart operators know when to say "oops" and take action to make it right.

Bitching is one of the many tools available. If I was producing content that was getting run by the torrent sites, I can assure you that writing DMCAs to everyone and their dog would be on my list of jobs to do. I wish more copyright holders would jealously protect their copyright works.

Spunky

I blame the reefer and the man

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Evil E

DDoS anyone? Do you think you someone would press charges against the guy who DDoS'es piratebay?

If someone was really that pissed, the sponsors would already be getting DDoS'ed

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A girl once told me "Give me 8 inches and make it HURT".

So, I fucked her twice and hit her with a brick.

ytcracker

you guys are going to hate me, but as an artist primarily in the internet arena i dont give a shit if people steal my music without paying - i even served my own album as a torrent.

people who have paid for my album and come out to my shows and bought my merchandise do so because they support me and the music. the people who dont buy tell others about my music and that just gives me a larger fanbase to work with.

i guess it doesnt laterally work in porn, but whatever - people just need to be more creative and launch contests like "date the star of this film" and include an individual code with a purchased copy of the dvd - shit that you cant pirate. you cant pirate world of warcraft for the same reasons.

my two cents.

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SmokeyTheBear

me and millions of others. im not on dsl , im on the FASTEST connection available for private use in my are along with every other person in my state

double the amount of fakes = double the amount of bandwith = isp's will soon add caps if they dont already


thats all we want to do, make it slightly harder in every aspect " legallity , torrent sponsorship , lawsuits etc the same way the music industry did. and has been working fairly good so far.
this is a muti pronged strategy . get some headlines in the news of schoolteachers sued for downloading ass-raped-nuns, to scare the downloaders. fake files to make it harder , hitting the advertisers to limit the amount of torrent sites and a few other tricks.. and people wont want the hassle they will just fork over the $30 and buy a membership

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SmokeyTheBear

well as you pointed out its impossible to compare as you arent making the majority of your profit from album sales , and porn is.. you make your money from merchandising ( not applicable ) and shows ( not applicable again ) , neither of these things are available or applicable to porn

but you do have a point. in being creative..

drm , ppv shows , streaming videos not downloadable ones , etc etc

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ytcracker

agreed - if it was my primary source of income, i suppose i might feel differently.

i think a malleable business model is absolutely crucial in the adult industry - realistically, at the beginning of the internet people consistently bitched about free porn ruining the industry. i don't see this as much different - the people who are downloading the torrents and are smart enough to understand the technology generally are broke college students anyway. as with anything else, you need to incentivize your product. girls gone wild has made an absolute killing and their shit is pirated to hell and back - how they market and their selling model is what created their capital.

that said, i turned over all of my adult sites to my partners for personal reasons and now focus primarily in mainstream arenas. most of what i deal in can't simply be downloaded off the internet en masse, so again my perspective is one of hindsight.

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SmokeyTheBear

the music industry did alot to scare people away from downloading mp3's but the problem only stoppedbeing as big when they offered a faster better alternative.

when mp3's first came about there simply wasnt any easy way to get your music to your computer, infact they had handhels mp3 players before the first mp3 was legally sold.. that would be like having ipod video player videos before the adult industry sold ipod video s( whoops )

u gotta stay with technology

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Nathan

What I find kinda funny to be honest, and don't bash me, is that most of you people discussing how to stop this keep saying they use the torrent sites themself. Not for porn of course, but for music or dvds...

But to the topic itself... probably the best thing to do is a combination of all that was suggested. Submit fake torrents, mark real ones as fake and sue a few people... word will get around. And to hide yourself all this has to be done via the tools the scammers use against us anyway, like hitbot systems which use a bunch of proxies and such. They can hide, so can we...

That is the only viable solution in my oppinion, but this has to be grand scale. Something like 200 or so fake torrents each day and the same amount of real ones flagged as fake.

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SmokeyTheBear

you use the internet , the internet has bad stuff , thus you cant say antyhing bad about the internet..

torrents arent bad. downloading commercially available copyright material you do not have the right to view is bad. downloading an mp3 of a song you have purchased the rights to listen to is not bad

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phourt

that's business, man. the law of supply and demand.

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L-Pink

Nice comment .....

Gunni

It's easy to make money of torrents.
I download music and movies, but I still buy CD's, DVD's and go to the cinema, not more or less than before, just about the same. Music/Movies and Porn sales are on the up constantly, what is the problem with torrents exactly?

Before files sharing on the internet there were pirated cassettes and VHS, the entertainment industry got all nervous when those came out like they are now, didn't hurt them one bit and neither are torrents.

jayeff

We are unlikely to agree on how to take down torrent sites, nor even whether it is possible to do so. But we are generally agreed that such sites are contrary to the interests of the vast majority of those actually trying to sell online porn. Which basically means that we have a "them" and "us" situation...

And from that perspective, the role of sponsors who help monetize such sites is clear: they are helping "them". It is irrelevant that another sponsor might step in if one bows out: deal with him if it happens. Meanwhile, we are - by working with them ourselves - supporting people who are working with the enemy. Which is ludicrous.

Whether the issue is torrent sites, Zango or whatever, why should we allow sponsors, hosts, or anyone else the luxury of earning money from both sides? It makes no business sense and is contrary to normal behavior in any other context. Force them to make a choice as to which side of the fence they want to work.

If we actually got off our asses and did that, I seriously doubt many good sponsors would commit to "the other side". Sure that won't make the people on the fringes of the industry go away, the difference could be very small. But it would at least make those who are financially motivated think twice. And they are the real threats overall, not the hobbyists.

Beyond that, I have never met anyone who has lousy ethical and professional standards in any important sense, and keeps those standards confined to only one aspect of their business. So my take is that someone who is happy to screw me one way, is very likely to be screwing me a half dozen other ways too. The very fact that someone doesn't care about their reputation is an excellent reason to stay as far away from them as possible.

grumpy

dont kill it, i make a nice $ with it.

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INP2P

Hi GFY.

I have been controlling the top results on many torrent sites for quite some time. I can seed virtually an unlimited numbers of files and have created special software which does nearly all the work. I know all the ins and outs of getting and staying on many these sites. Not only can I take the top result for a query but I can take over the first ten pages of results for any keyword.

I know there's a market opportunity here on GFY, I'm just not sure if its worth my while. What would you be willing to pay per file or per 100 files per month on many torrent sites? The files could be of your choosing but I could also offer DRM or popup files. Anything but badware.

I might be willing to sell the software outright, but it would have to be an exclusive sale with source and support. Whoever controls this effectively controls a large chunk of the BitTorrent network. More than one party having this would just get messy.

You can contact me at: info at inp2p dot com

SmokeyTheBear

lol you cant be serious comparing the 2 ..


I was alive during the entire vhs trend i never once knew of a place to get FREE copies of vhs tapes of all the top hits, every in my entire life. on the rare occasion you would find a small store with some pirated copies of a few old movies , thats it. hardly compareable.

Movies and cd's can count on a good portion of their money on merchandise , porn sites cant. big big difference

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The Duck

Its like fighting a lion with a piece of string.

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SmokeyTheBear

well those claims seem a bit grandious.. if you can get the top ten pages of results for any given keyword why wouldnt you just do it for every keyword.. ? you would have all their traffic.. dont oversell such a usefull product..

I think many content owners would be satisfied with a deal to seed copies of the trademark names and models for a monthly fee.

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INP2P

There's a lot of keywords I've always avoided for legal reasons (i.e. copyright issues), however if the proper owner of those would like to have their files there (either for sale or simply to spoof fake files) please contact me.

This isn't a great moment for me to respond to questions, so please either just leave them here or email me. I'll be back later today to respond in full.

potter

Fake torrents won't work. You MIGHT just screw over a couple people. But the fake torrent will be flagged/removed/commented way before a large number of people download it.

You're also living in a dream world if you think you can take on, or bring down file sharing. The internet is file sharing over a broad network in real time. The whole idea is free information. If someone wants a book. They can purchase a computer, internet, paper, and printer. Go online and download then print up their own book. They could also go to the book store and purchase the book. As with a music album. Said person could purchase a computer w/ burner, internet, blank CDs and make their own. Or go to the music store and buy it.

People who look at file sharing as an enemy and something to "stop" need to open their eyes. I can't even imagine how anyone in their right mind can think of any way to possibly, in the slightest, put a dent in file sharing. You're viewing a problem from the wrong angle. Instead of trying to put an end to something you can't. Try to turn that potential problem into a profitable part of your business.

Take all that time you're going to use to "bring down" torrent sites to instead make a profit from them. You have an outlet to allow millions and millions of people to see your product. Every time you make a new FHG and zip file, make a torrent leak as well. You submit to thousands of sites in hopes of getting your gallery seen, why not start "submitting" that gallery in a clever torrent form. What goes inside the torrents is entirely up to you, so the marketing and profit possibilities are endless.

Music companies do it all the time. There are constantly pre-release album "leaks" which are put out on purpose to build hype for the product. Just try to pay more attention to what the brilliant companies are doing. Running off saying the sky is falling and you need to nuke the atmosphere isn't going to bring any sort of gain or profit to you or your company.

Plus, the added bonus with torrent sites. If someone is abusing your content. You know where it is. Webmasters spend plenty of time putting a stop to content abuse. Finding that abuse on a random website is like finding a needle in a haystack. However, if there is a torrent. You know exactly where to go to find that torrent. I'd think anyone would be happy to know they only have to go to one area to look for something.

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You Forgot Poland

Good deal.

jayeff

What you wrote seems all very logical and positive. The fundamental flaw is that the appeal of torrent sites isn't that they provide free content: plenty of sites do that. Their appeal is that they provide free access to content which isn't supposed to be free. Any torrent site which allowed itself to get loaded up with content that people want to give away, would lose its audience.

There will always be things like this, which allow a few people an edge but do not scale up. That they can at most only benefit a small minority - to the detriment of most - is why, rightly, they must be seen as "the enemy".

Zango is the same: it would collapse if we all began promoting Zango installs instead of sponsors. If every single one of us hired effective black-hat SEO outfits, we would be back with the same level playing field as we had before the first one came along. In every such case, the only lasting impact is to cut someone else in on our profits who does not in any way help increase those profits.

That's the price of playing along with short-term greed and that is why a legitimate industry must distance itself from all such things and the people associated with them. That doesn't change just because it isn't immediately obvious how to shut them down.

drjones

When was the last time anyone tried getting a torrent? Its generally a pain in the ass, slow, (especially if the file is unpopular and there are no seeders), you have to configure port forwarding on your routers if you want decent speed, which is beyond the ability of many people. At the end your not even guaranteed the file is what it says it is, no assurance on quality, or if its going to be something you even wanted in the first place, once you see it. Not to mention, many are frightened of malware and wont download things from shady bittorrent sites.

Bittorrent is no panacea of piracy.

iTunes works, because its a hell of a lot more convenient than pirating music from p2p ever was. Offer assured quality, and convenience and people will still buy what your selling. Part of the problem is, so many adult sites are almost perfect examples of low grade web development as it existed in 1995. Ugly, a bitch to use, shitty quality, unprofessional. I sure as hell wouldn't trust sites like that with my CC#, and most others wont.

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Dirty Dane

I don't think fake torrents, virus or illegal shit is the way to handle it. You just motivate the pirates even more by doing that.
You have to protect your content with DRM, and go the legal way. Best thing is if the industry stick together on this one, because in the end pirated content hurt not only the ones pirated, but all others too (ppl do not sign up for all websites even if there were no free stuff).