voa

Good point man,that is egsactly whats i want to say.

crockett

Dude you are on crack.. there is one guy responsible for dividing this nation and his address is at the white house..

After 9/11 this country was united about the same as it was after Pearl harbor. The entire world was even behind us and supported us. A real leader would have taken that and used to to benefit his nation and the world. Bush used it and abused it to get the war they wanted to make his buddies rich.

Instead Bush used it to divided this country and alienated us from the rest of the world. Wasn't Democrats that came up with "you're either with us or against us".

Go stick your head in the sand some more, because you sure as hell have no clue as to what's going on in the world around you.

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ADL Colin

You are on the "production" side. ;-)

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Cherry7

It was not the peaceniks that gave Hitler to europe but Hitler was supported by the right wing in Europe and US. The left supported the fight against fascism in Spain, fought against the sell out of czechoslovia...

Remember that Poland fell, 300,000 brits killed in the blitz and the USA was neutral, in fact you never declared war on fascist Germany, she declared war on you !!!

The bastards have hidden the truth in books!

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ADL Colin

Fuckin' classic line

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ADL Colin

I assume you mean the fall of the Roman Empire and not the Republic?

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Adultstoevsky

circuitous conversation

SPACE GLIDER

What empire would replace the U.S.?

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bl4h

China will. Even though its taking them a gazillion people just to make it to super power

DaddyHalbucks

The peace movement left Britain extremely weak and unprepared for the war.

The fact that Hitler did not win is a miracle. If Hitler had not invaded Russia, Britain would have been captured.

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Kevsh

So true...

So false.

If you believe radical Islamists are anti-US because they hate freedom and democracy then it explains why you think Bush "gets it". It's not about democracy or freedom. Bin Laden and others are opposed to US foreign policy - their perceived double standard with Israel/Saudi Arabia vs. everywhere else in the middle east.

The US has killed hundreds of thousands, many innocent, in the Middle East. They sell military hardware to their "friends" while deterring sales to others. They carpet bomb villages, try to overthrow governments, support radicals and rebels they deem the lesser of two evils and so on.

This isn't of course GWB's fault, this has been US foreign policy for decades, but only in the last 15-20 years or so has it really come back to bite them in the ass (WTC, etc.).

While I am in no way siding with terrorists, nor do I condone any of their actions but it's ignorant to believe they are simply opposed to freedom and thus, the USA ... if so, they'd be attacking Canada too wouldn't they? As far as I know terrorist groups have never openly stated issues with us - why not?

pocketkangaroo

Your history is way off. Roosevelt kept Britain alive when he gave them all the cash they needed to fight (they were broke at the time). He also provided huge sums of money to other allied countries like USSR, China, and France. It's called the Lend-Lease Act, it was a pretty big deal during the war, and something most Republicans opposed.

Not to mention that at the time, Republicans were the isolationists (or "peace movement" as you call it), and although many eventually did support intervention, they were the ones that were against it.

Tons of books on WW2 out there.

pocketkangaroo

Christians commit more murder here than any other religion.

pocketkangaroo

Here is another one:

http://www.amazon.com/Nemesis-Americ.../dp/0805079114

By a former CIA guy and the one who wrote Blowback which more or less predicted 9/11. He makes a lot of comparisons of us to Rome.

just a punk

Who those Americans are? Do you mean Indians? I don't know other nation that can be called American. The USA is a country of immigrants from all the world. Some of them used to have big families, some - not.

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just a punk

"provided huge sums of money to other allied countries like USSR" LOL What do you know about Lend-Lease Act? Roosevelt provided weapon and food to Soviet army in exchange on GOLD. Roosevelt wasn't providing that gold to USSR, he was RECEIVING it! Where did you learn history man?

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pocketkangaroo

Gold was paid on aid that was provided before the lend lease act. These were on shipments in early 1941. And if all the aid was in exchange for Gold, why did the USSR pay back the United States, including a $700+ million dollar settlement in the 70's?

As for where I learned my history, I'd say from virtually every history book in the world that says the same thing about the lend-lease act. This includes letters from Stalin to Roosevelt thanking him for his generosity. Here are a few examples, you'll note the mention of a billion dollar tax free loan to help with ammunitions and supplies. You'll even note him saying he'll pay it back 5 years after the war is completed.

http://www.shsu.edu/~his_ncp/LendL.html

Before you go and bash the source (a University in the States), these letters are public information and can be found in hundreds of history books. Not to mention government archives. Then again, maybe you know something that all these historians, Stalin, and Roosevelt didn't.

EonBlue

Man, the level of anti-Americanism and outright hatred of the US is pretty shocking - especially from Americans. Some people just don't know when they've got it good.

The comparisons of the US to Rome are weak because the US is not an empire like Rome was. The last great empire was the British Empire. And let's not forget that London was founded by the Romans, so maybe the Roman Empire yet lives on a little.

Europeans are about to witness the collapse of their bloated welfare states and many European countries are projected to be majority Muslim within 50 years. It remains to be seen how their new overlords will treat them.

Here is a good book about where the world is heading if current demographic trends continue:

America Alone: The End of the World As We Know It

And for those that downplay the threat from radical Islam, be sure to check out this movie:

http://www.obsessionthemovie.com/

More Americans should adopt the attitude of these guys:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=ymLJz3N8ayI (version 1)
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Hm-7SGCv78U (version 2)

Casa Nova

There is a book out about this right now. The author was featured on the Colbert Report just the other day, It was a hilarious interview!

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pocketkangaroo

I don't see any anti-American in the thread. I see some racism, but that's about it. Worrying about your country and wanting things to change isn't anti-American, it's in fact what America was founded on.

By definition it is an empire. We extend cultural and military power over populations throughout the world. We have nearly 200 military bases throughout the world. I don't know what else could be defined as an empire.

I don't think anyone downplays the threat of any radical religions. Remember we have people in this country like Ann Coulter who state we should take over Muslim countries and convert them all to Christianity. We have people in our own country who believe we should be run by biblical law. So yes, there is a threat that comes from religions, but it comes from all of them.

warlock5

mwahahah, cyberpunk distopia here we come

mattz

The USA will be the most powerful and richest nation long after you or your kids are dead, gaurenteed

Mr. Blue

America is suffering from poor leadership from both parties at the moment. America doesn't necessarily have to fall like Rome, but at the rate we're going that's exactly where we're heading.

Our politicians are bought and sold by lobby groups, the partisan bickering has led to no avenues of compromise, and corporations are selling off America at a discount. The unfortunate catch-22 of it all is the people that can fix the problems are the ones causing the problems. America could recover if we tossed out all the Republicans, all the Democrats, made serious reform to campaign financing, eliminated lobby groups, and returned politicians to their original purpose of serving the people that elected them.

Career politicians is the first thing we should get rid of...there's no politicians in Washington now willing to take the big risks and to stand up for what's right. Why? Because they're in a constant cycle of worrying about poll numbers, raising money, and getting elected again.

America isn't going to change, because let's face it...the fuck-ups in Washington have a comfy setup right now and they're not going to ruin it.

However, America becoming a second rate power might not be that bad. Let's face it, when China is the only superpower the rest of the world will start bitching and whining about them. We can chill on the sidelines, return to isolationism (it ain't bad), and rebuild. Instead of this stupid notion that we have to spread democracy to the world we might actually start looking after our own for a bit...might actually be good for us.

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Axeman

Yep unless the people of the US get tired of the BS in the government and elect officials who look out for their people and not themselves then it will continue to result in the decline of the US on the world stage.

Change takes action from the people and unfortunately the majority of the US citizens are far to content with the corruption or too lazy to do anything about it. Why would the government officials hold each other accountable when their citizens don't make them do so? They see the pot of gold and no end in sight.

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JP513

All great civilizations fall. Natural order of things.

Mr. Blue

Yep pretty much...I mean eventually it'll come to the point where Americans will ask for change and do so by getting active, however, it'll probably be too late for us to still be considered a "World Power"...again though, it might not be that bad. If America became introspective again, worried about their own backyard for a bit, it really wouldn't be long to make huge improvements in the areas that need improving.

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SPACE GLIDER

Wasn't like half of the royal family attempting to APPEASE Hitler? I don't think it was the "peace movement" that was truly responsible for making Britain unprepared for war.

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And I believe it. MANY disagree, but ...

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