Just Simple Math....(Drama) - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

BusterBunny · 07-28-2007, 07:41 PM

fiddy.......

socrates420 · 07-28-2007, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GatorB

Do you mean MOOT? And I'm supposed to take you seriously? And yes you are retarded.

This is what makes me smile, when in doubt attack the poster's grammar flubs.

I type fast and often do not bother to check every single last red word, you know what I meant, otherwise why would you need to correct me?

I speak the truth and you know it, and I'm sure a slight few here know what it means when someone only can respond with "your stupid you posted mute instead of moot"

Congrats on the extra post, it looks wonderful under your pretty colored nick.

~Socrates~

GatorB · 07-28-2007, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by socrates420

This is what makes me smile, when in doubt attack the poster's grammar flubs.

I type fast and often do not bother to check every single last red word, you know what I meant, otherwise why would you need to correct me?

Ok first it wasn't a TYPO. A typo is when you type TEH instead of THE. You clearly though MUTE meant MOOT. Normally I'd let that slide, but since you are so insistant that you are smarter than eveyone else you need to be knocked down a peg or two.

Quote:

I speak the truth and you know it "

I know you speak out of your ass. PPS works fine with me and others. It's none of your bussines if we are supposedly losing out. And if we were fucking over the sponsor they wouldn't bother offering PPS in the first place. Unless you are saying every sponsor that offers PPS is full of idiots.

Paul Markham · 07-28-2007, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TeenCat

somebody is trying to find a hole on something that works. ok break is over now lets go back to the work k? ;)

The situation is it worked yesterday, it creaks and stutters along today and it will not work tomorrow.

The surfer is educated and affiliates sending traffic to sponsors that fucked the surfer to pay for the affiliate are the ones who educated him. Every time you fucked over a surfer you hit another nail into your coffin.

Think about it, $30 to pay for the sign up, and this is a minimum, the sign up needs a $1 product. How long before sites start putting up memberships for an hour for $1.00 a day for $2.00 and just letting the traffic flow to them?

Traffic was king, for a few years, today it's the surfer. There are simply too many options for him.

And all those who think the huge payouts are paid by upsells and cross sells simply do not run a paysite. The surfer joins a site and does not like it, so he joins another site he does not like. He does not do this once he does it every single time he signs up.

Get a calculator and work out the ratios that are needed to pay out some of the PPS, then look at the ratios on your site and common sense will tell you it does not work that way. Traffic that converts at 1-1000 suddenly in a flash goes to buying 1-1 on an upsell.

Paul Markham · 07-28-2007, 10:48 PM

I will look into my magic looking glass and predict the future.

Tomorrow you will be lucky to get $5 PPS and rev share will go. The micro fetish and micro niche sites will still do well if they hit the niche right. A lot of sites will find it tougher to make surfers spend.

We were converting at 1-100, we are now converting 1-1,000 and it's getting worse. Traffic numbers are not increasing to take up the loss like they did. There are too many options for the surfer to pay less. The sites that pay you $40 and spend another $10 to support you for the sign up will simply price themselves out of the market.

If I had made that post yesterday everyone would of jumped in and told me they would not send the traffic and without it I'm dead. Now they are losing members, not traffic, to people who don't have affiliate programs.

The affiliate program is good, affiliates are great (the ones who send sign ups LOL) but if I have to sell a product or resell it again and again at 10 times more than other sell it for I'm on a slippery slope.

TDF · 07-28-2007, 11:10 PM

98 percent of my affils under me convert under 1:200 unigues..and that is a fact

Robbie · 07-28-2007, 11:16 PM

That's cool Socrates. I don't disagree with a lot of what you're saying...it's just the WAY you're saying it.
Why bother coming on here full of mystery? Just say who you are. I'm Robbie Boyette. I'm not some "porn name" nick like everybody else on here. I am who I am. I say what I mean.
If you have something important to say that will help this industry, (and I believe you do) then PLEASE don't play the stupid games that so many on here do.
Just say who you are. Say what you did. Say why you feel the way you feel.
Simple.
Why does everybody on this motherfucker feel the need to make things so goddamn complicated. LOL!

GatorB · 07-29-2007, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

And all those who think the huge payouts are paid by upsells and cross sells simply do not run a paysite.

Then why do sponsors still offer such high payouts and even higher payouts on bonus days? Funny thing is that I heard back in 2000 that the $35 PPS model was doomed and would soon become extinct. Yet here we are in 2007 and here it stil is around.

Quote:

Get a calculator and work out the ratios that are needed to pay out some of the PPS, then look at the ratios on your site and common sense will tell you it does not work that way. Traffic that converts at 1-1000 suddenly in a flash goes to buying 1-1 on an upsell.

Think about what you just said. A site that converts at 1-1000 well the 999 that DIDN'T sign up are not going to see the upsell. The ones that will are the ones that actually PAID for a trial or monthly membership. Someone that has shown a willingingnes to pay is always more likely to pay again than one that never has paid before. So yes I would assume 1000 surfers that paid for membership to convert MUCH better on an upsell insdie the site than 1000 random surfers going to the front page of the same site.

Paul Markham · 07-29-2007, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GatorB

Then why do sponsors still offer such high payouts and even higher payouts on bonus days? Funny thing is that I heard back in 2000 that the $35 PPS model was doomed and would soon become extinct. Yet here we are in 2007 and here it stil is around.

You need to work it out yourself how they can afford to pay.

It's still around today. But with all the pressure coming from sites that meet the surfers needs better, will it be around tomorrow in it's same form? I think PPS will be around, just at a different level. A level the sponsor can put out a good site at a good price and still have a bit left for you.

I believe price is going to be the major factor in the future. Surfers are fast learning that they don't need to spend $30 and then spend another $30. Just so the sponsor can pay affiliates. All these threads seem to ignore the biggest factor in our business. The surfer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GatorB

Think about what you just said. A site that converts at 1-1000 well the 999 that DIDN'T sign up are not going to see the upsell. The ones that will are the ones that actually PAID for a trial or monthly membership. Someone that has shown a willingingnes to pay is always more likely to pay again than one that never has paid before. So yes I would assume 1000 surfers that paid for membership to convert MUCH better on an upsell insdie the site than 1000 random surfers going to the front page of the same site.

Yes membership traffic converts better than surfer traffic. And as a sponsor up selling to some of the best site on the Net in my niche, better sites than mine LOL, I know how well. It's not well enough to pay you the money they are getting.

I have a good site, a site members can trust. I sell to good sites and I know what the conversion ratios are. I also get them selling back to me and again I know the value of their traffic. It's no where near good enough to pay you the the money some are offering.

Paul Markham · 07-29-2007, 01:34 AM

The one thing that all these threads have ignored, or passed over, is the most crucial element in the business. The one that every body shouts is the most important.

Traffic or should I say the surfer.

Firstly you don't own him. He's intelligent enough to surf the Net, he's got money for a computer and he learns fast. Often he learns faster than the affiliates trying to sell to him and I would say 9 times out of 10 he knows more about the product he's buying than the guy sending him to the product.

He's not a newbie if he's buying and he's not a fool.

Generally speaking over the last 10 years we have ignored his needs, we have on many occasions conned, misled or just over sold him. And it worked because there was little alternative and the supply of new surfers was abundant. All that has changed.

Today there are sites selling 1,000s of movies $10, or sites selling a single movie for a single dollar or sites giving them away for free. He no longer needs to pay for his porn. The idiots who think closing down sites stealing content are blind. They simply do not get it.

What we have to do is worry about what the surfer wants, what will make him spend money. Not worry about how to send more traffic to a site that can't convert what it already has.

Paul Markham · 07-29-2007, 01:51 AM

I'm not saying the affiliate model is dead or dying. I'm saying it will need to change with the times.

It's still a good model, but needs to adjust so the product meets the surfers needs.

Yes this will be hard for many to take and it will cause the demise of some and others will flourish and prosper. Pay out 10% of what you pay out today to 10% of the affiliates. But get more sign ups.

Don't shoot my numbers please.

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 07-29-2007, 02:17 AM

Well the math is off a little.

Dont forget programs often going PPS got alot of things goin on under the hood along with the shave. There is no denying shaving is not out there, if you think shaving does not happen to you, ya better think again.

What do the sponsors got to insure profit?
1 They got Cross sale happening.
2 Once members subscribe they get a basic area where they are 1 click upgraded for better content. Free Trials are essentially based on the 1 click upgrade.

So you ad a cross sale at an additional 25 bucks the surfer is hit for.

So with a cross sale and the 1 click upgrade the surfer is knocked.
$25.00 Xsale + $25.00 Membership. = $50.00

$35 bucks to the webmaster.

$15 to the program. With possible recurr's and data information on the subscriber for future sales via email.

The above scenerio is optimal but does often happen.
Also, you are not rewarded a sale until the credit card is actually hit.
When they sign up does not mean shit, ya goto wait 3 days usually to see the result unless of course the subscriber upgrades before the period.

There are prolly over 40 or so different ways this sort scenerio can be worked out to pay webmasters and each one warrants its own payout program and payout amounts.

So there you go in a nut shell, the Sponsor programs are not really getting fucked. I just told ya guys the basics that most succesful programs have in thier arsonal.

TheDoc · 07-29-2007, 07:42 AM

This may be about the most ridiculous thread ever.. The numbers, ideas, and stats as to what and why things are happening is absolutely laughable.

1) Paysites aren't converting 1:1000, the average is around 350, not much up from the 250 8 years ago.

2) Webmasters convert worse, not the paysites, because the traffic bubble they work within (not getting fresh sources) has dried up. Fresh traffic still converts like old-school.

3) PPS will be the end all, not revshare or ppv options. At that, some people have already tried lower level ppv (per clip/scene, ect) and they don't covert better.

4) The price & options DO NOT convert members, the content does, fact! You can have amazing content and charge whatever you like. PPV charges 10 times the price as membership sites, because they have amazing content that no other sites on the Internet have, so they can.

5) Video sites, are no the future, they do well but they still offer a limited type of content and needs. Are they going to keep the price at $15 a month after they reach 10,000 movies?... no!

6) PPS make money through exits/upsells/xsells/upgrades, ect.. The sale pays you and the other webmasters, everything else is the fluff on top. Please don't ever confuse that..

7) PPS programs do not have to shave. NATS and MPA programs don't shave, and many pay pps and offer super high bonus rates.. The math works, don't knock it simply because you don't get the math. Note: Bigger programs that did shave are dead, think about it.

Robbie · 07-29-2007, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

4) The price & options DO NOT convert members, the content does, fact! You can have amazing content and charge whatever you like. PPV charges 10 times the price as membership sites, because they have amazing content that no other sites on the Internet have, so they can.

THAT is the truth! You find a niche, you give the surfers exactly what they want and make it nice and easy to navigate...and you WILL make money longterm!
It's so simple...yet so hard to do.

Everybody keeps asking me about marketing tips and how I got my little paysite so successful in a couple of months. And I keep trying to tell them that REAL marketing starts at the very foundation. You have to have a great product to begin with. And for me that starts with Claudia-Marie. Her personality and enthusiasm and "real-ness" just shine through and make a lot of the girls who are just going through the motions for a paycheck look weak.

The surfers see that. And for my situation...targeting the milf and big titty lovers...it's been great.

I don't offer them trials...it's full recurring membership or nothing.
I don't offer them a bunch of feeds or live chat with other girls.
I don't offer them ANY upsells or cross sells or any of that bullshit.

What I GIVE them is exactly what they wanted. Just the way I want something when I choose it.

I was talking to someone the other day about some of the paysites out there and they made the very revealing comment that on some of the solo girl's websites, it's hard to figure out WHO the girl is that the website is dedicated to!

Ain't that the truth? Most of them are so busy trying to have a HUGE pile of content that they fill the site up with thousands and thousands of pics and movies and chat with OTHER girls.

Why? To make the review sites happy?

I wouldn't spend 5 minutes in those sites.

If I pay 30 bucks to see a woman that I think is smoking hot...then that is what I want. Not to have a bunch of content of other girls shoved in my face or offers to join other websites.

That kind of stuff is insulting to the surfer. I know, I know...a lot of guys are making all that "extra" money by doing that. Well, if it works for you then so be it.

I've made my money over the years by NOT treating surfers like cattle. I treat them the way I want to be treated and it seems to work for me. To me that is REAL marketing. The rest is just advertising.

Vick! · 07-29-2007, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by socrates420

I've been in this business before internet porn fucked up our golden cow, I have been a part of the REAL industry not the "grab a camera shoot some slut throw it on the net" industry.

~Socrates~

So true, so true.

But why is your observation so wrong, so wrong?

Far-L · 07-29-2007, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by socrates420

Woj, Sadly I fear there is no valid alternatives, because pandora's box has been opened years ago and it is damn near impossible to close it, not that anyone really wants to in the first place.

I'm not sitting here telling ppl NOT to use PPS, just enlightening the sheep on the TRUTHS to it, and a reference as to why their sponsors are doing 'dirty deals' in regards to sites like z a n g o and others.

There is an old business adage that roughly says this....

"A good business meeting is only such when both parties walk away saying I fucked him!"

It seems to me that our entire industry was built on that adage.

~Socrates~

Though I have to agree with you on just about every aspect of what you are saying I do have to point out that the old adage is "it is probably a good business deal when no body goes home happy"

There are very few sponsors out there that have the retention to make PPS work without a bunch of uncredited upsell links, sign ups that seem to vaporize into dubious "credits", and other things that piss off consumers like pre-checked cross sells.

07-28-2007, 07:41 PM	#51
BusterBunny perverted justice decoy Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: unborn still in the womb connected via blackberry Posts: 19,291	fiddy....... __________________ my sig caught gonoherpasyphilaids and died

07-28-2007, 10:48 PM	#55
Paul Markham Too old to care Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: On the sofa, watching TV or doing my jigsaws. Posts: 52,943	I will look into my magic looking glass and predict the future. Tomorrow you will be lucky to get $5 PPS and rev share will go. The micro fetish and micro niche sites will still do well if they hit the niche right. A lot of sites will find it tougher to make surfers spend. We were converting at 1-100, we are now converting 1-1,000 and it's getting worse. Traffic numbers are not increasing to take up the loss like they did. There are too many options for the surfer to pay less. The sites that pay you $40 and spend another $10 to support you for the sign up will simply price themselves out of the market. If I had made that post yesterday everyone would of jumped in and told me they would not send the traffic and without it I'm dead. Now they are losing members, not traffic, to people who don't have affiliate programs. The affiliate program is good, affiliates are great (the ones who send sign ups LOL) but if I have to sell a product or resell it again and again at 10 times more than other sell it for I'm on a slippery slope. __________________ Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500. PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

07-28-2007, 11:10 PM	#56
TDF Triple OG nigga on GFY Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: in the BP4L family compound Posts: 27,296	98 percent of my affils under me convert under 1:200 unigues..and that is a fact __________________ Sig heil

07-28-2007, 11:16 PM	#57
Robbie Leaner, Meaner, Faster Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegas Posts: 20,959	That's cool Socrates. I don't disagree with a lot of what you're saying...it's just the WAY you're saying it. Why bother coming on here full of mystery? Just say who you are. I'm Robbie Boyette. I'm not some "porn name" nick like everybody else on here. I am who I am. I say what I mean. If you have something important to say that will help this industry, (and I believe you do) then PLEASE don't play the stupid games that so many on here do. Just say who you are. Say what you did. Say why you feel the way you feel. Simple. Why does everybody on this motherfucker feel the need to make things so goddamn complicated. LOL! __________________ -Robbie ClaudiaMarie.Com

07-29-2007, 01:34 AM	#60
Paul Markham Too old to care Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: On the sofa, watching TV or doing my jigsaws. Posts: 52,943	The one thing that all these threads have ignored, or passed over, is the most crucial element in the business. The one that every body shouts is the most important. Traffic or should I say the surfer. Firstly you don't own him. He's intelligent enough to surf the Net, he's got money for a computer and he learns fast. Often he learns faster than the affiliates trying to sell to him and I would say 9 times out of 10 he knows more about the product he's buying than the guy sending him to the product. He's not a newbie if he's buying and he's not a fool. Generally speaking over the last 10 years we have ignored his needs, we have on many occasions conned, misled or just over sold him. And it worked because there was little alternative and the supply of new surfers was abundant. All that has changed. Today there are sites selling 1,000s of movies $10, or sites selling a single movie for a single dollar or sites giving them away for free. He no longer needs to pay for his porn. The idiots who think closing down sites stealing content are blind. They simply do not get it. What we have to do is worry about what the surfer wants, what will make him spend money. Not worry about how to send more traffic to a site that can't convert what it already has. __________________ Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500. PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

07-29-2007, 01:51 AM	#61
Paul Markham Too old to care Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: On the sofa, watching TV or doing my jigsaws. Posts: 52,943	I'm not saying the affiliate model is dead or dying. I'm saying it will need to change with the times. It's still a good model, but needs to adjust so the product meets the surfers needs. Yes this will be hard for many to take and it will cause the demise of some and others will flourish and prosper. Pay out 10% of what you pay out today to 10% of the affiliates. But get more sign ups. Don't shoot my numbers please. __________________ Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500. PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

07-29-2007, 02:17 AM	#62
AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE best designer on GFY Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IALIEN.COM - High Definition Video and Photographic Productions -ICQ 78943384 Posts: 30,307	Well the math is off a little. Dont forget programs often going PPS got alot of things goin on under the hood along with the shave. There is no denying shaving is not out there, if you think shaving does not happen to you, ya better think again. What do the sponsors got to insure profit? 1 They got Cross sale happening. 2 Once members subscribe they get a basic area where they are 1 click upgraded for better content. Free Trials are essentially based on the 1 click upgrade. So you ad a cross sale at an additional 25 bucks the surfer is hit for. So with a cross sale and the 1 click upgrade the surfer is knocked. $25.00 Xsale + $25.00 Membership. = $50.00 $35 bucks to the webmaster. $15 to the program. With possible recurr's and data information on the subscriber for future sales via email. The above scenerio is optimal but does often happen. Also, you are not rewarded a sale until the credit card is actually hit. When they sign up does not mean shit, ya goto wait 3 days usually to see the result unless of course the subscriber upgrades before the period. There are prolly over 40 or so different ways this sort scenerio can be worked out to pay webmasters and each one warrants its own payout program and payout amounts. So there you go in a nut shell, the Sponsor programs are not really getting fucked. I just told ya guys the basics that most succesful programs have in thier arsonal. __________________ NAKED HOSTING FTW!11 I'm On The INSANE PLAN $9.95/mo! \| The Alien Blog Adult News Worth Reading Updated Daily \| Content For Sale! 641 PICS 216 MINUTES OF VIDEO $350.00 \|ICQ: 78943384 \|

07-29-2007, 07:42 AM	#63
TheDoc Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Currently Incognito Posts: 13,827	This may be about the most ridiculous thread ever.. The numbers, ideas, and stats as to what and why things are happening is absolutely laughable. 1) Paysites aren't converting 1:1000, the average is around 350, not much up from the 250 8 years ago. 2) Webmasters convert worse, not the paysites, because the traffic bubble they work within (not getting fresh sources) has dried up. Fresh traffic still converts like old-school. 3) PPS will be the end all, not revshare or ppv options. At that, some people have already tried lower level ppv (per clip/scene, ect) and they don't covert better. 4) The price & options DO NOT convert members, the content does, fact! You can have amazing content and charge whatever you like. PPV charges 10 times the price as membership sites, because they have amazing content that no other sites on the Internet have, so they can. 5) Video sites, are no the future, they do well but they still offer a limited type of content and needs. Are they going to keep the price at $15 a month after they reach 10,000 movies?... no! 6) PPS make money through exits/upsells/xsells/upgrades, ect.. The sale pays you and the other webmasters, everything else is the fluff on top. Please don't ever confuse that.. 7) PPS programs do not have to shave. NATS and MPA programs don't shave, and many pay pps and offer super high bonus rates.. The math works, don't knock it simply because you don't get the math. Note: Bigger programs that did shave are dead, think about it. __________________ ~TheDoc - ICQ7765825 It's all disambiguation