Enemator

Thank you for pointing out another good example

ServerGenius

Do you know that EVERY empire at some point will fall? Is there any proof?
Didn't you have history lessons at school? Don't know how to use Google? Never
heard of Wikipedia? Ask your momma!

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StuartD

Wouldn't that suck? I mean think about it.

Some empires were replaced by more powerful ones, some had their leaders die, some just faded as they released their control....

But if this is how the US is to meet it's empirical end... wouldn't it be ironic that it was caused by the greed of a really stupid leader?

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Enemator

You KNOW they don't that in school. The old land is something that's only been talked about in myths

RegUser

Cemeteries are full of people who thought the world would not run a day without them - Napoleon

Enemator

Nice quote

Paul Waters

I find the optimism that Americans have today, cute and very amusing.

The moron President will leave a national debt twice as big as what Bill Clinton did. In just eight years he will have overspent by as much as all previous Presidents combined!

The consumer driven economy is going to bust because consumers have no more equity in their homes to spend.

Retiring baby boomers are going to start drawing their social security.

And the huge military bills for Iraq, Afghanistan and who knows where else will go on for many more years to come.

China is switching its t-bills into stocks Literally owning the US.

Canadian banks are looking to scope up US banks at fire sale distress prices.

Can we say 50 cent dollar, $5 a gallon gas, and 20% inflation?

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directfiesta

.. and that was a post by an AMERICAN idiot ....

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StuartD

Ah, I have always been a fan of the American "you're not allowed to think about us" approach all the while telling other countries how to operate and sending bases and troops to any country you please.

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GreyWolf

Nice quote RU

GreyWolf

It may be harder for you to know what I mean if you hail from Canada Paul (you are prob more familiar), but I kinda liked the 'openness' of many US folks - it was kinda refreshing to me when I lived there - just not used to that

Not talking about the stupidity of some on GFY (that's enough to make ya think all of the US is totally insane), - but with "real people" you get to know.

Sure there was an element of optimism as well, along with... hard to say, call it simplicity. It was obvious a few did not know stuff - but that again was appealing and cute in a way. It's a kind of innocence which you sure would not expect in an industrialized country.

Ended up with a number of very good friends in the US - among them a number of people who went to hell and back in their lives (it was their chosen career which caused "hell" - not military) and have great respect and would extend all help possible if they needed it. Also know a number of US expats here - some very nice people. The comparison with them and a number on GFY is stunning.

The irony is that if the expected current economic problems hit - these are the people who will feel the heaviest toll. It's their homes and assets which they worked hard for, which will be messed up. It's easy to talk about currencies and balance sheets, but different when that can severely affect people on a personal level.

We can all moan about the dollar being low, but that is nothing in comparison to the effects on a population if the problem deepens. And... seriously wish them well and hope they are not 'hit".

Snake Doctor

As bad as our current administration and it's policies have been for our image in the world, I can totally understand why so many people would be "rooting" for our economy to collapse.

But let's deal in facts people. The idea that the country with the world's largest economy and the world's reserve currency of choice is going to become a third world country with a totally worthless currency over a temporary decline in the dollar is insanity.

The dollar did the same thing during the 80's because of Reagan's ridiculous policies and then recovered again once we got our fiscal house back in order.

The next president will restore fiscal discipline which will allow the dollar to regain it's losses.....the idea that the federal reserve would allow inflation to reach double digits is also isanity, considering they were still raising rates when core inflation was below 3%.

If you're going to make ridiculous claims like the US economy is gonna collapse or the dollar will be worthless, the least you can do is post a link to the lunatic who fed you that information....or the stats you used to deduce the information yourself.
Otherwise you're just an America hating troll who's praying for our demise and using every little piece of bad news in the world to try and prove your prayer will come true.

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GreyWolf

Read the rest and facts are something which are scarce

Untrue. It does not have the world's largest currency reserve.

Assumption

Different scenario and not comparable.


Assumption based on??

Assumption that inflation will reach double digits. Inflation is also not controllable when it gets out of hand and irrespective of who manages it.

More assumption. Who said this? So far you appear to be saying this more than anyone.

Back to flagface bullshit with the learned terminology, "American hating" and more assumptions - irrelevant and sad.

If you have something valid to say about the economy - feel free. If you need information on the current state of the economy - try Google. However wasting your time adopting a defensive attitude and using assumptions and inaccurate statements to support this while assuming the world is against you, is pointless. BUT.. to give ya cred - it is GFY

Snake Doctor

Ok, you're officially on ignore asshole. All you ever do is say other people are wrong but post absolutely no fucking facts whatsoever to back up your claims.

Eat shit and die you fucking anti-American troll

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nico-t

"we are AMERICA"

great argument buddy

GreyWolf

Official eh? *lol* My pleasure - keep it on ignore.

Untrue. Yet another assumption

Untrue. Posted more facts that you have posted *anything* relevant.

More learned flagface bullshit which says more about you than anyone else. Try school.

Enemator

you're stupid

You're on the fucking intraweb buddy. It HAS no boundaries.

Typical....

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thaifan99

what goes down must come up!

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Lykos

few years?
thats too long period to lose money...but then again,i really hope dollar will rise again...

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Enemator

Well, I don't think it's going to collapse as in: 1600% inflation rate, like that one country in Africa.

But...giving the fact that the dollar went from a virtually 1:1 ratio down to 1:0.68 against the euro...one has to admit that it's the next "best" thing to collapsing.

If you can't see that, you should really wake up.

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CE_Rashaan

First off the whole reason I made this thread was to reply to the countless amount of "the US is collapsing" threads and posts, which is ridiculous.

Is the US economy in the dumps- YES

Is the pound worth more then the dollar- YES (always has been, correct?)

Is the Euro worth more then the US dollar- YES (all those countries finances bound together? I would hope so)

Will OPEC stop taking US dollars- Who gives a shit? (during WW2 the USA was so broke the ARAB OIL KINGS only took gold bouillon, did that stop anything?)

The world moves in cycles and all that is on top must come down- YES

However the romans, the greeks, the ottomans, the mongols all ruled for hundreds to thousands of years before their downfall.....the USA has not even been around for three hundred years. By my "historical timeline clock" we still have at least one hundred or so more years on top.... so

GO FUCK YOURSELF!

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tblake

Grey Wolf- The US Dollar isn't the reserve currency of the world? WTF? Can you please justify. From what I last read, something like 70% of the world's central banks use US Dollars to prevent runs on their currency. So USD are the reserve currency of the world. I would furthermore state that this is because you always want a good exchange ratio to USD because you have to buy oil as a country and that is denominated in dollars.

I think the US Empire will collapse sooner or later, it is a matter of how. I give two scenarios.

One- we pull out of Iraq, and most other parts of the world and stop fucking around in other peoples business and focus on our own economy. We elect Ron Paul. We hope that Googles and Microsofts and other amazing American innovative companies keep our economy strong. It would be tough though because as soon as we pull out of Iraq and the middle east, oil gets demoninated in Euros, Yen and whatnot and we loose this amazing ability to tax the world through Oil for dollars enforcement. The USD collapses and the empire crumbles. Although people kind of like us because we don't fuck around in other countries anymore.

Two- More war. Larger bases in Iraq. We take over Iran via airstrikes and we put in a regime that is US friendly, AKA one that sells oil for dollars and does business with American oil companies. We rattle sabers at any other OPEC nations that think about challenging the US oil supremacy by pointing to large airbases in Iraq and our willingness to bomb any nation that doesn't sell its oil for dollars. We bomb a couple more countries for good measure. The empire collapses when we cannot support such massive military spending anymore.

The end.

As a side note, someone pointed out to me this weekend that the US right now in history has perhaps the largest military advantage over the world that the world has ever seen. So should we use that to maintain the Empire? Or dismantle it?

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EZRhino

I got to say that MatrixRashaan is right, the realestate market will correct itself, ask anyone who actually is successfull at will tell you that. Its a marathon not a sprint. As for the dollar and the US economy, the rest of the world needs us more then they will like to admit. Even tho terrorist countries and nations that saber rattle our existance, still use and accept the US dollar. From Cuba to Palastine. Why? Becuase its stable and everyone accepts it. Stop listening to idiots who guess and listen to the people with their money on the table.

xmas13

The US economic empire already collapsed.

The Euro zone GDP (316 million inhabitants) is $16 trillion, and it's the world's top economic producer with 30% of the world's GDP in nominal USD.

The US is still a military superpower through the Pentagon/NSA/CIA, but for how long? The country is borrowing hundreds of billions to fight a couple Iraqi insurgents.

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GreyWolf

Not sure which post your question rises from Travis... Is it:

If so, sure, the dollar is the top currency reserve and hopefully, will remain that way. Nobody else appears willing to print paper - eg the EU have expressed no interest in promoting the euro as a global reserve currency.

Was looking more to the foundation as to why it is a prime reserve currency and what is supporting it. Appears very little, other than a confidence factor and where US "money managers" are willing to allow the dollar to be used this way.

There are obvious benefits for the US when the dollar is used as a reserve currency - elements such as the ability to borrow higher and at fractionally better interest rates etc.

But... and therein lies the potential achilles heel Borrowing is fine as long as it's managed and a fiscal policy exists. There is no doubt that "USA Inc" is over-stretching itself beyond a sustainable borrowing level and, in turn, causing minor earth tremors resulting in dumping of dollars and questions to why it should be used as a reserve currency.

Always keep referring to this doc, but it was stunning :-) The Treasury did a very extensive revue of the US economy and presented their findings/recommendations in early 2002. It had taken them 15 years to prepare. It's too detailed to discuss on a chatboard, but a few economists did an analysis and the simplified version mean't eg "94% of the value of all homes and the contents in them is debt". Obviously home values have changed since 2002 and there is an increase in debt. The Treasury solution, which they appeared to regard as urgent at the time, was to recommend "an immediate increase in taxation to a level of 60% for the foreseeable future". This report was unpalatable for the administration and hidden within the week - another unfortunate administration will have to deal with it in the future.

Another example of debt, prob going beyond a prudent level for any currency reserve country, can be found in the Current Account balance... example is here:

Current Account Balances By Country

In reality, the Current Account Balance at the moment is around $900 trillion deficit and that is not the full story. It's safe to say (least up to 2005), you can add approx another $300 trillion which are items not included already in a Current Account, - so, around $1.2 trillion deficit.

It is kinda hard to view the dollar (even forgetting it has dropped recently), as a safe global currency when you look at the overall picture and realize the country has never had a trading surplus in 40 years. But, at the same time, it's highly unlikely there will be a massive global shift from the dollar in the short term - it always seems to take much longer, - so doubt dollar holdings by other countries will change much, tho can see enormous pressure on the govt to act and put their house in order and meantime, would expect further reductions in dollar value.

OK.. Gotta rush *lol*

V_RocKs

I look at all of my friends... and I see people living way above the normal standard of living...

Gas or housing prices being what they are... we are still above average...

ianlester

when you pay your bills in another currency... like Canadian....but make most of your money in $US dollars... the US dollar going down is like taking a paycut.

polphill

i hope the us dollar starts getting back to its normal state otherwise my exchange is going to be shitty for a while and im going to have to charge more.

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Tempest

The US became great because of it's huge manufacturing capablities... Capatilism has raped teh US and moved that to third world countries, like China... Anyone that truly believes that the US will be able to do what no other country/empire in history has ever been able to do is just deluding themselves. As long as money rules the US, it is doomed to failure.

I personally think we're going to see even worse exchange rates between CDN/US.. to the point of making completely new records.

RegUser

you are quite right my friend
The US $ has slided off quite a bit this morning and gold is upto $718.00
Within 2 weeks, you will see even more drastic slides

RegUser

this thread is quite today

advokat

seems like nobody cares

Barefootsies

Indeed.

Never discount corporate America. They will find a new way to scam and sham a few more billion in some scheme given a year or two. Regardless of the dunce caps at the helm.

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digifan

What WG said

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jonesonyou

Yawn. The Fed is a private bank. Diversify your holdings and don't trust in money or a single currency period.

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tranza

It's funny to see people that know nothing about economy starting threads like this.

Carry on.

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esnem

agreed, no need to get into details or argue with idiots. just re-read Paul Waters' post above.

G-Rotica

Why America won't fall. (Call me flagfaced all you want.)

True. The dollar aint doing so good.

True. People borrowed more than they should have. (It's the American way.)

True. George Bush is an idiot.

True. Oil cost to god damn much.

However, there is one other thing that is also true. One thing that the anti-American trolls always forget. We always have the Bubba Brigade. This counrty was founded by flag waving, flag loving rednecks. And guess what. They procreated. You think that just because we have some economic problems that will stop Americans? Fuck you. We've been there, done that, and have the fucking t-shirt.

Most of you "anti-Americans" wouldn't have the freedoms you have today if we hadn't stepped in and finished WW2. You'd be goose stepping and saluting Hitler Jr.

You want the USA to crash? You want us ruined and broke? Fuck you, bring it on you fucking bitches. Hell most of your so called countries owe us money now. You wouldn't even have the Internet, if we hadn't put it out there for you.

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directfiesta

Feel better now ?

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GreyWolf

So far, you have never stated one reason "Why America won't fall". Where do you get the idea it will fall in the first place??? Doubt it.

The rest of your post is flagfaced and has nothing to do with the economy - just don't apply to the Treasury for a job

Elli

I'm not sure if people are saying they want the US economy to fail. Sure, there is a perverse pleasure in watching such an (at times) arrogant country get some just deserts, but it's hard to wish a recession on normal citizens.

And just because bubbas procreate doesn't make America the best and most unstoppable country in the world.

As for borrowing beyond your means being the American way...

A few F.D.R. quotes:
"A nation, like a person, has a mind--a mind that must be kept informed and alert, that must know itself, that understands the hopes and needs of its neighbors--all the other nations that live within the narrowing circle of the world."

"No business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. "

And to preserve their independence, we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our election between economy and liberty, or profusion and servitude.
- Thomas Jefferson

Rather go to bed supperless than rise in debt.
- Benjamin Franklin

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esnem

way to drive my point home

G-Rotica

Actually I do. Thanks for asking.

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CE_Rashaan

True it is funny to me as well...thats why I started the thread. In my ignorance the only claim I made regarding the US economy is that it is in the toilet right now...am I wrong?


In regards to Paul Waters post...

His presidential comment and war focus only reinforces my original statement regarding presidential terms

The housing market and Baby Boomer SS crisis are just two of the reasons or economy is in the toilet...which again I already highlighted

China, T-Bills...hmmm interesting. China's currency needs to stand alone instead of being pegged to ours...the Chinese market is cracking though just ask Starbucks and GM...we be making hugh Moolah there soon

Canadian Banks cant merge and with the Canadian dollar so strong Canadian Banks are buying up interests down south...WOW. They bought NewJersey's Commerce Bancorp (8.3Bil.)...now TDB of Canada is seventh on the number of branches in N.America list...oooohhh scarry. The only other purchase was by RBC, they bought RBTT (2.2bil.) which is a Caribbean banking network. I MUST HAVE MISSED THE FIRE SALE

in regards to the GAS going to $5....I don't feel it nor do I complain.
$6-8 a gallon in Europe since FOREVER...what is there to complain about?

No need to argue details with me, I could care less....I'm not as diversified as some of you. Besides Cash, real estate and a couple of small business ventures...all I got is an Edward Jones account I dump money into, which I have set on AGGRESSIVE

As I said at least 100 more years on top....didnt they say the Ice caps will melt before that?

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GreyWolf

Duh? The reasons and movitations for the other purchases - go no clue about. But.. the RBC accquisition of RBTT has nothing to do with fire sales, the US economy or the Canadian economy. There are other more solid reasons.

Shagbunny

Jesus H Christ I say!

yahoo-xxx-girls.com

Hi GreyWolf,

Not to have for you to repeat yourself, however being Canadian I don't know much about your system... could you please in point form give the main factors that you see lowering the US dollar plz...

The US dollar is setting at approx 0.92 to 1 CND...

Thanks for your time,

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xmas13

The US government should reduce Pentagon budget by 50% (no more useless bombers, oversized nuclear arsenal, foreign military bases....), create a new Department for alternative energy, and impose high gasoline taxes like in Europe to regulate oil consumption.

The government wants to get involved in the economy, ok fine, but let's do things right.

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yahoo-xxx-girls.com

If it was not for the Pentagon offering people jobs the US would be like it was in the dirty 30s... well... perhaps not as bad.

The DOD is a very big employer... sad to say...

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