SykkBoy

No one takes a dime from Gene, not even little kids....hehehe

http://www.billboard.biz/bbbiz/searc..._id=1003671447

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GatorB

Gene is smart

It has been nine years since we've seen a new KISS album. Any plans to get back into the studio?

There is nothing in me that wants to go in there and do new music. How are you going to deliver it? How are you going to get paid for it if people can just get it for free?

But some artist like Radiohead and Trent Reznor are trying to find a new business model.

That doesn't count. You can't pick on one person as an exception. And that's not a business model that works. I open a store and say "Come on in and pay whatever you want." Are you on f*cking crack? Do you really believe that's a business model that works?

So what if music just becomes free and artists make their living off of touring and merchandise?

Well therein lies the most stupid mistake anybody can make. The most important part is the music. Without that, why would you care? Even the idea that you're considering giving the music away for free makes it easier to give it away for free. The only reason why gold is expensive is because we all agree that it is. There's no real use for it, except we all agree and abide by the idea that gold costs a certain amount per ounce. As soon as you give people the choice to deviate from it, you have chaos and anarchy. And that's what going on.

Why

sounds like a dipshit to me.

GatorB

Says the freeloading welfare check recipient.

Zuss

He's clearly a moron.

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sumphatpimp

thought that old relic died years ago

RawAlex

Amazing to think that I agree with Gene.

If nothing else, this thread will certainly show who runs torrent and tube sites.

Ayla_SquareTurtle

well...the idea that artists putting out new music aren't making money is just silly. He can't possibly really believe that.

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ajrocks

Most greedy man alive, not a big surprise.

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Matt 26z

It is true that free music online (both piracy AND authorized) has seriously damaged the recording industry business model that worked for decades.

Case in point...

I look at my CD collection from 15 years ago and there is nothing surprising in there. It's all popular bands that I heard on the radio and MTV.

Now I look at my MP3 folders and there are countless bands that are never ever on TV or the radio, yet I like their music a lot.

And therein lies the problem for the record executives. They have lost total control over what people choose for themselves to like. And as an added slap in the face, they don't see a penny from increased ticket and merch sales from these bands who otherwise would be playing in people's garages and then breaking up.

Bro Media - BANNED FOR LIFE

do you wake up every morning, look in the mirror and think "god damn, i'm smart, and nobody is right if i don't think they are"? because you're so full of shit that i gotta wear rubber protection to wade through it...

BerdoR

the guy will get left behind - old business model come of age

DWB

I agree with Gene.

And those of you who don't must not create or produce anything and try to sell it.

tony286

amen brother.

MetaMan

FUCK ARTISTS

99% of CDs these days just have 1 or 2 songs that are actually worth listening to. this is why people are not paying for full albums, all artists want is to produce a 1 hit wonder, make their money and move on.

If you make a CD with 18 songs and even 90% are good people will buy your CD.

CDs are pure cookie cutter filler these days, who wants to pay for that?

RawAlex

Therein lies the real problem, and why this isn't a truly workable longterm business model.

Let's say a band sells one recording to one person in each city or county with more than 20,000 people. So they sell, say, 10,000 copies. They get $1 each. Nice work if you can get it for a garage band, $10,000 is probably more than most of them have even made in their musical careers.

The problem? With only one record sold in any area, there is no critical mass to make it worth them touring. That garage band could go out on the road and play places that would pay them the door or $50 a night or whatever, and that would be it. Their one fan would show up, maybe bring a friend, and the evening is done. Maybe that second fan buys a record, and they are really flying.

Record companies have always been filters, agglomerating bands, performers, and styles of music and getting them out to a wider audience. Selling 100 or 200 records in every town with 20,000 people means that the band could show up and play in front of 200-500 people, which would be a workable business, with an upside. Maybe 100 of those new people buy a record tomorrow. That is wholesale movement, and how the ball starts really rolling.

Without widespread distribution, marketing support, local pushes, and strong marketing in all regions, most bands don't get out of the garage. You may enjoy the music, but in the end these guys are still having to keep McJobs between hours spent recording in their parent's basements because there is no money in it, and no way to turn it into money anytime soon, because the record companies aren't involved.

Everyone says "the artists make their money touring", but if nobody knows who you are, you can tour all you like and you won't make shit.

tony286

You dont have to buy the whole cd anymore, you have itunes and others like or dont listen to that music.

Shagbunny

he's old school

SmokeyTheBear

gene is a smart fellow in some aspects but he is also clueless on others.

"there's no real use for it" ( gold )

um ok gene..

i'll tell ya where the music industry went wrong. it's pretty simple.

it took literally 5 years after mp3's came out for them to actually sell them.

i could play my mp3's in my car and home long before there was ever a legal way for me to buy them.

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eroswebmaster

LOL I like all the people questioning Gene Simmons intelligence, and calling him a relic.

The reason the members of KISS even have any money right now is because of the marketing force that is Gene Simmons. Let's not even talk about the things he's doing for other industries that don't even involve KISS.

The guy is making more money than most people on GFY combined.

As far as being a relic...no he's not a relic..he's an Icon. Big difference. The guy is still famous, the guy still gets fan attention so many years later.

Not only is he successful in business, but he seems to be successful in marriage. He's still with one of the hottest chicks to ever grace playboy, and his family seems to love him.

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tony286

Yep, they have their shit together.

testpie

Apart from the fact that most iTunes songs come DRM locked down onto PonyPlayer 2.01110000002, whereas you can rub a CD up your asscrack if you so wish; the contents are yours to use as you wish, barring making additional money from them.

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Ayla_SquareTurtle

I'm not questioning his intelligence, in fact quite the opposite. I know he knows the music business inside and out. That's why I don't believe for one second that HE really believes that you can't make money putting out new music. Especially if you're KISS and have a HUGE loyal fan base.

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MetaMan

thats my point, screw these artists, all they put out is cookie cutter singles. what happened to the days of CDs when you could listen to them first to last without wanting to skip through?

record companies got greedy, artists got greedy and they are all getting what was coming to them.

and to the "underground" artists you arent good enough in the firstplace to make it so dont worry about losing money.

artists are a bunch of egomaniacs, very few actually give a shit about their fans anymore, so guess what the fans dont give a shit about them.

Violetta

Im glad Im not in the music biz...

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Evil Chris

No offense to Gene, but he didn't exactly earn what he was from his ability to put down some amazing music.

More his ability to sit still while someone applied a lot of makeup to him and his band-mates.

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GatorB

If you are in favor of STEALING because 99 cents is too much of a burden on your pocketbook then that's your issue. Right is right. So fuck you tard.

Bro Media - BANNED FOR LIFE

nah, that question was in general, every thread i see you in, you think you're right and everyone else is a idiot...

StuartD

Don't the artists make the majority of their money from tours and merchandising anyway?

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candyflip

Actually he'd probably spit right in your face for saying he's successful at marriage. He is a fierce OPPONENT of marriage.

And you CAN buy and download KISS music on iTunes, so he's not completely out of the loop with regards to online distribution.

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CDSmith

He discovered Van Halen and produced their first demo.

His complete bio is incredible. http://www.genesimmons.com/bio.html

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SykkBoy

I have a feeling he's jockeying himself into position to start/acquire some type of online distribution system....he's too smart to not smell that money and have his fingers in it or wanting to get his fingers into it...

he's a marketing genius

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RawAlex

Without successful albums played on the radio and exposed to the public, nobody will come to the shows and nobody will buy the merchandise. Do you think it would be cool to be the one guy at a concert for some no-name band playing at a club in the middle of nowhere, or in the middle of a crowd of 20,000 rocking out to the top selling band of the moment?

Record companies and their marketing people make this situation possible, and the artists profit greatly by doing the interviews, the media, etc... and then doing shows with high ticket prices and selling overprices t-shirts and such.

Symbiotic relationship. Remove one, and the other dies just as fast.

kane

Yes and no. As Alex said above without promotion and publicity nobody would know who the band was so there would be no money to be made touring. Big, well known acts, do make much of their money touring and selling merch, but they are able to do that because they are well known.

I think with the internet, myspace, facebook, youtube and everything out there it is possible for bands to record an album, give it away for free (or very cheap) shoot a cool cheap video and us these tools to market themselves then they could tour and make some money from it and use that tour to build up an audience. But the reality is that most musicians are not good promoters, they are good at playing music, just not good at selling it so most bands would fail at this.

I won't be surprised to see "record promotion" type companies popping up in the near future. These would be people that know how to get a record publicity and can help get the band known, but they aren't record labels. They might charge a flat fee or work on a commission or both. I also wouldn't be surprised to see some artist management companies getting into the record promotion business. if they can find a way to get the band publicity without a record company behind it they could stand to make a lot more money.

GrouchyAdmin

I have to say, Gene is on the right track.

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SykkBoy

yup, I was thinking the same thing...there's an opportunity for people to become pioneers in new ways of distributing music so it gets to the masses and bands still make money from their music..."new media record companies" if you will...

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RawAlex

Kane, you are partially right, but mostly missing the keys to the castle:

The record companies have direct access to the radio stations, the video channels, the media, and the distribution. While payola is illegal, it doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. They can also trade off access to a successful artist (which would mean good ad sales for a TV show, example) in return for space for their new breaking artist to get some big exposure. Self promoting bands or bands promoted by small time promotion companies will find themselves without the carrot they need to get things done.

As for the idea of "record promotion" type companies, basically those are called record labels, just under different terms. Madonna is all proud that she didn't resign with a record label, but basically signed a deal that trades off much of her future revenue (concert tickets and merchandise) for a bigger part of the CD / music income. They may not call themselves a record label, but pretty much they are in the same business and do the same things, with slightly different financial benefits and liablities.

Changing the name doesn't change the job.

germ

The artists arent being affected, the record companies are. The artists make the overwhelming majority of their money on playing live shows and selling merchandise.

Personally, I think most of the record companies out there are trying to turn music into a mass produced, cookie cutter product that they can market. So...good riddance.

As long as the artists make their money, which they still do even when their albums are downloaded illegally, I'm not too concerned.

As for the record companies...adapt or die.

nikki99

I hate downloaders too

I pay for every CD I have....

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BlackCrayon

Probably the best post in this thread. Much like porn, mp3s being available for free and people getting used to that has totally fucked things for the johnny come-lately pay per download business method.

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SykkBoy

So, what's wrong with that? Should record companies cater to someone who claims to have the be all end all taste in music...or those screaming 13 year olds with money to burn in their pockets?

the music business has never really been about the music...
for everyone who bitches about the manufactured boy bands, there are 10 who forget the Monkees weren't really a band before they were cast on a TV show...

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BOSS1

gene simmons reminds me of the "real sinatra"

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L-Pink

I have a computer and everything on it should be free. That is the sad boiled down fact behind most downloaders. The effort behind the product is of no monetary value to me, the artist can make money some other way off some other person ..... What percentage of artist's on your playlists have you actually seen live? I'll bet it's pretty low. Be honest, it's real low.

Fuck em' I got it for free. I am entitled to have it for free.

L-Pink

Oh, I forgot, the record companies are the reason I deserve everything free.



.

Flynn

ding ding - we have a correct answer. i agree with you.
Hate Gene Simmons or not, he is very smart and has done very well because of it.

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madfuck

sound weird..>>

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE

Internet Downloads bore me.

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kane

I agree with some of what you said but I would argue that most top 40 style radio (regardless of genre) is off limits to just about anyone. It takes major money and influence to get on big radio stations unless you get lucky. These stations want ratings so they feed the listeners what the listeners want. that is why established acts dominate radio play. MTV is dead and getting videos played just about anywhere now is almost impossible. MTV plays 10 videos a day during TRL and most of those you only see a few seconds of the video. They have MTV2 but even it is playing less and less videos. There is Much Music and some other options, but they are drying up even to established acts.

that said, there are many acts that get little or no radio play yet still sell really well. A few that come to mind are Radiohead (they do get some play on alternative stations, but not much) Wilco (i've never heard them on the radio) Phish, before they broke up (never played on the radio but would sell out stadiums nationwide) and many others. While these acts don't sell concert tickets and CDs like superstar acts, they still do pretty damn well for themselves.

When I mentioned record/musician promotion companies they are basically like record labels the difference is they won't be signing bands or distributing records. Their sole job will be to get the band press and get the band's name out there.

I feel that as broadband continues to roll out and get cheaper and cheaper soon it won't surprise me to find out that many people don't really listen to regular radio (a reality most radio stations are already facing as they see slowly dropping ratings) and they will turn to other sources to get their music. These other sources could provide some great opportunity for some bands if they are able to figure out how to take advantage of it. A great example, although not in the music world, is Dane Cook. I heard an interview with him recently where he basically said he used Myspace, Facebook, Friendster and Youtube to build his career. He would record his live shows and he would do funny sketches and put them up on these sites. he built an entire audience this way and now has a movie career and is the biggest stand up comic in the nation. I can't see why a band, if they had the right plan, couldn't do the same thing.

Grapesoda

you hit that nail on the head

GatorB

Um because I wouldn't spout an opinion unless I thought I was right. What kind of fucking retard says something and thinks they are wrong?