kane

That is true. With the right strategy you can make any candidate, bad or good, look amazing. I always tell people to look at the 2000 election. While Bush was governor of Texas that state ranked last in environmental quality and bottom 5 in strength of economy and quality of education. Al Gore was handed the presidency on a silver platter. Things were relatively peaceful, the economy was chugging along and things were pretty good. All he had to do was point out that Bush was a failure as a governor and that if elected president he would bring those problems to the entire nation. Gore refused to attack him and he refused to pull out Bill Clinton, who , despite his problems, was a pretty popular president when he left office. Bush's people polished him up and he ran a brilliant campaign. Kick in a little help from his peeps in Florida and include the old people in Florida being confused by the ballot and he won when he probably should have lost in a landslide.

With enough money and the right plan any candidate can be sold the public.

madfuck

i dnt understand it either, but whtevr just let it be...

rebel23

Ron Paul is running on Bush's foreign policy from 2000 and he is called a whackjob! LMAO!

btw, your probably not seeing Ron Paul's ads because he is concerntrating them in the early states besides does he need to advertise in Oregon im sure that state will turn out for him in large numbers. I also don't know when your primary is, it might not be as "important" as some others if you know what I mean.

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notoldschool

Nice. I hope someone hears you.

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dynastoned

thats all you need to know...

ADL Colin

So very well said. Nice examples.

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Young

Ron Paul winning the Republican nomination would be the best thing to happen to democrats in a lonngggggg time.

Once the 200 million plus Americans unfamiliar with him hear about some of his wackier ideas they will turn out in record numbers to vote for the Democratic nominee no matter who he/she may be.

Ron Paul...a democratic dream. Maybe I should donate money to the cause too.

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Myst

What confuses me is why people dont like Ron Paul... do they enjoy war? Do they enjoy income taxes? I dont get it

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kane

1. He is a republican that looks more like a libertarian than anything else. In Texas is is going to be very hard to get elected as anything but a republican. Obviously people like the job he is doing because he is getting reelected. But I if you look at his positions on most issues he is more libertarian than republican. You can dress a duck up in a sheep suit, it doesn't mean it's not still a duck. Here is a quote from CNN, "Paul, who ran for president as a Libertarian in 1988, is the sole Republican candidate to call for a U.S. withdrawal from Iraq." Sounds to me like a guy who knows he can't win as a libertarian so he goes with the party that will best help him.

2. I'm not an expert but here is a nice graph http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/index.asp it shows that as of Q3 of 2007 paul had raised around 8 million. He said his goal for Q4 was 12 million and he will probably raise around 15-18 that puts him at around 26 million which is still in 4th place on the list and about 1/3rd of what Romney has raised. I wouldn't consider someone who is a sensation on myspace, youtube and facebook a GOP sensation. Many of these supporters are probably not even going to be able vote for him in the primaries because they are either unregistered or registered in the wrong party. We aren't talking about a general election here, we are talking about the republican primary. Remember Howard Dean? He was the internet darling. The guy with all the small campaign contributions and they guy a lot of people picked to win it. Then they found out when called upon to actually get out and vote, the keyboard warriors were busy playing world of warcraft.

3. I understand that republicans have run on anti-war platforms in the past but in most of those cases they were wars started by the opposite party. it is easy to say, " they screwed it up, I'll fix it." It's not so easy to say, "we screwed it up, I'll fix it." Lets not forget that the hard conservative right still believes strongly in the war in Iraq and they are the ones that run the party. Love it or hate it the republican party has sold their souls to the Christian right in order to win elections. They picked their bride and married her, divorcing her won't be so easy.

Young

you are uninformed. that is why you don't get it.

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kane

I can guarantee you our primary isn't very important We are towards the end of the cycle so things are pretty much wrapped up by the time it gets to us. You are right, he is probably focusing his money in the early states and is hoping to make a statement in them by winning or finishing high up. That is what Kerry did in 2004. He came out of nowhere early on and rode that momentum to the nomination. Oregon loves a non-traditional candidate so he probably does have some good support here.

Myst

enlighten me

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Young

he wants to kill the department of education.

he wants to get rid of any government run teacher certification board. essentially allowing a bunch of private companies to certify everyone and anyone under the sun.

now imagine there being no public schools. you have 2 options. send your kid to a 15,000 a year private elementary school or home school. imagine the repercussions. millions of uneducated and mis-educated americans.

he wants to kill brown vs. the board of education. essentially opening schools for segregation based on race and gender.

he doesn't believe in the separation of church and state. this guy is itching to have intelligent design taught in class rooms.

i only touched upon the education system...i can go on...

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rebel23

1) he has ran in Republican primaries and unseated Republican congressmen to get the nomination for congress, he IS a Republican and has been elected 10 times as one to the US Congress, he is accepted as a Republican and has never had the whip withdrawn even when he rebelled in the 1990's, Newt Gingrich never disciplined him because he is a respected Republican with his own mind

2) Ron Paul's campaign has steadily built through the year, he will be the top fund raiser this quarter and has been half of the year. Romney is writing cheques to himself and Guiliani is working connected networks and employee's of corporations to get $2300 contributions, he will outraise both of them this quarter depending on what Mitt gives himself. Mitt's campaign would be broke without his own bank propping it up. many of the campaigns spend money like drunken sailors (an example of what they would do in Government perhaps) but Ron Paul adheres to his principles and spends frugally, he stays in motels and up until last week was travelling commercially. Romney has aired literally thousands of expensive TV ads all year in Iowa and NH and is being beaten in the official polls in Iowa by Mike Huckabee who until this quarter had not raised much at all.

Howard Dean was the official polling front runner who couldnt win Iowa and subsequently collapsed, Howard Dean raised money on the internet but no where near as much as Ron Paul and Ron Paul is yet to peak in the polls and still has a few weeks to go.

3) Except they're not winning elections they're losing elections like the US congress and if they have a pro-war nominee for President they will lose to the Democrat. Ron Paul is also attracting a lot of people to the party, so many have left and are disgusted but now they're coming back, democrats are switching for Paul, freedom unites people and so does Ron Paul's message

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kane

Here are a few reasons why. These are quotes from Paul:

"You wanna get rid of drug crime in this country? Fine, let's just get rid of all the drug laws. "

A lot of people don't like any candidate who speaks about legalizing drugs.

or this one from an interview:

Jan Mickelson: One of my litmus test questions to find out what kind of thinking process a candidate has done on this, is to ask my test question. Test question is: do you think that Roe v. Wade is the law of land?

Ron Paul: Well, they call it the law of the land, but I want to clarify that by getting rid of it. I think this is one example of the courts overstepping their bounds tremendously. Texas had a law against this violent act, and it went in to the federal courts and the Supreme Court. They overruled the state law, which should have been legitimate, and then came down on the side of legalizing killing a fetus, even into the 3rd trimester. But the fastest way to accomplish this is not through a constitutional amendment, or waiting till you get enough justices to overrule. You can pass a law in the Congress, which denies jurisdiction to the federal courts. So if Iowa or Texas or any state passes a law against abortion, you can't get it into the federal courts, and the states would decide this issue, as they decide all issues of violence: murder, manslaughter, theft, all this things are supposed to be state issues.

As soon as you start talking about making abortion illegal you alienate about half the nation.

rebel23

And where in the US Constitution does it mandate the federal government to run a Department of Education? Ron Paul follows the Constitution and will adhere to the pledge of allegiance. if more politicians actually did that then the US Government wouldnt be trillions of dollars in debt and have hundreds of military bases around the world

as for church and state you're wrong on that, he supports the constitution and the founders position.

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kane

I don't claim to be an expert in Ron Paul. I like a lot of what they guy says, and there is a lot that I don't like too. To me he is just like the other candidates - some good about him, some bad, some unknown.

Answer me this. If he is such a strong republican why did he run for president in 1988 as a libertarian?

Young

if anyone was wondering what tired/borderline scary cliche's i was referring to on page 1. just look above.

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rebel23

he is not talking about making it illegal he is talking about supporting states rights to do what they want to do. he does have a personal position of being against abortion but he wouldn't dream trying to frame a federal law nor would it pass, he wants to leave it to states

as for drug laws well the war on drugs has truly failed and some states like CA have legalized marijuana for medicinal purposes only to have the Feds INFRING E on their rights, enter their state and arrest medical patients! unbelievable!

Ron Paul is a strong supporter of states rights

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kane

But you didn't answer the questions. Without any type of educational oversight from the government there will only be those levels set by existing (and new) private schools. Public schools will all but cease to exist and the quality of education in this country could dramatically sink.

Sure the founding fathers didn't write all this into th constitution, but then the founding fathers weren't overseeing a country that was a world super power and in charge of one of the top 2 biggest economies in the world. Without education this country will fail miserably. Without some sort of rules and oversight the quality of the educational system could sink very fast. We would would have liberty, yes and we will know the pledge of allegiance, but sadly we will have to memorize it because we won't be able to read it.

GatorB

Actually TRUE republican values are in fact libertarian for the most part. What passes off as republican values now is what the jesus feaks decided they should be 30 years ago when they highjacked the party. Go to the libertarian aprty website adn read about what thier views are and tell me how that is not republican?

Libertarians are for

Lower taxes
Smaller government
gun rights
personal retirement accounts
are against government funded health care

Now how exactly are these "radical" views of a nutjob who is not really a republican?

http://www.lp.org/issues/issues.shtml

rebel23

the dept of education has been around since 1980, the US coped fine before then and I'm sure it will if it was abolished

this is NOT a new position for a Republican like Ron Paul:

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A previous Department of Education was created in 1867 but soon was demoted to an Office in 1868. Its creation a century later in 1979 was controversial and opposed by many in the Republican Party, who saw the department as an unconstitutional, unnecessary federal bureaucratic intrusion into local affairs.

Unlike the systems of most other countries, education in the United States is highly decentralized, and the federal government and Department of Education are not heavily involved in determining curricula or educational standards (with the recent exception of the No Child Left Behind Act). This has been left to state and local school districts. The quality of educational institutions and their degrees is maintained through an informal private process known as accreditation, over which the Department of Education has no direct public jurisdictional control.

Rather, the primary function of the Department of Education is to formulate federal funding programs involving education and to enforce federal educational laws regarding privacy and civil rights.

On March 23, 2007, President Bush signed into law H.R. 584, which designates the ED Headquarters building as the Lyndon Baines Johnson Department of Education Building.[2]

President Ronald Reagan promised during the 1980 presidential election to eliminate the Department of Education as a cabinet post,[1] but he was not able to do so with a Democratic House of Representatives. In the 1982 State of the Union Address, he pledged, "The budget plan I submit to you on Feb. 8 will realize major savings by dismantling the Department of Education."[2] Throughout the 1980s, the abolition of the Department of Education was a part of the Republican Party platform, but the administration of President George H.W. Bush declined to implement this idea.

In 1996, the Republican Party made abolition of the Department a cornerstone of their campaign promises, calling it an inappropriate federal intrusion into local, state, and family affairs.[2] The GOP platform read: "The Federal government has no constitutional authority to be involved in school curricula or to control jobs in the market place. This is why we will abolish the Department of Education, end federal meddling in our schools, and promote family choice at all levels of learning."[2][3] During his 1996 presidential run, Senator Bob Dole promised, "We're going to cut out the Department of Education."[3] A 1997 survey conducted by Congressman Ron Paul found that 54% of his constituency wished to abolish the federal Department of Education.[4]

In 2000, the Republican Liberty Caucus passed a resolution to abolish the Department of Education.[5]
---

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GatorB

You realize there wasn't a Dept of Education until the 1970s.

On the flip side the whole "local control" is best is also BS. In my shitty ass county everything thing is run by ingorant inbred hillbillies that probably didn't pass high school themselves.

For example my son had to start school on August 1st this year. WTF is that about? It was also a wednesday. Why not start school on a Monday? We have a tax free holiday for school supplies and clothers in my state unfortunately it didn't start until August 3rd two days AFTER school started. No worries the teachers didn't require the kids to have any supplies until the next monday. So basically for the first 3 days of school kids did NOTHING. So why fucking start school so early?

Also instead of having four 9 week quarters like 99% of all schools systems have, we have 6 six week grading periods.

By the way the first 3 weeks of August it was 100 degrees everyday so way to go on wasting my tax $$ on high electric bill to cool the schools down.

This is the kind of retarded shit you get when you have "local control"

ADL Colin

Did I say he was radical? Did I say he was a nutjob? Have I said anything negative about Paul at all? No, I said he has only the smallest chance of winning and that his position is a minority one.

Did I say he wasn't really a Republican? No, I said "Even though a Republican he's pretty much a libertarian". That is very true. He is an elected Republican
with strong libertarian beliefs.

There's no such thing as TRUE republican values. That's like saying that only people who hold one set of beliefs are TRUE americans. Ron Paul is more libertarian (today's standards) than any elected Republican president ever.

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kane

I agree. The war on drugs has failed and is a huge waste of money. Still there are many people that do not want to see drugs legalized.

When it comes to abortion he is basically saying he wants to make it so that states can make it illegal. He admits that the current law can't be touched without a major shift in the court, but he still wants it outlawed and sees this as a way around the federal law.

GatorB

First of all John Edwards beat all top 5 republican candidates in recent polling. If Ron Paul was running many indeprendant sna nd even democrats would vote for him. If republicans rather be stupid and vote for Hillary or Obama then that's their stupidity. Remember Ross Perot was even nuttier and somehow got 1 in 5 voters to vote for him.

GatorB

I hear all the time the GOP say they believe in smaller government, lower taxes, gun rights. Go look at the libertarian party platform and tell me how that is different than what the GOP says it stands for?

GatorB

This is where he is being a bit hypocritical.

IllTestYourGirls

Kerry was polling lower than Ron Paul is 2 weeks before the primaries. Polls mean nothing.

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StickyGreen

Everyone always wants to ignore the important issues and go straight to the "he has no chance of winning" bullshit. Who cares if he wins or not, the Revolution is more important... and it isn't going to go away just because Ron Paul goes away in the upcoming election...

And I see people calling Ron Paul names like nutjob and wacko... wtf? What is so "nutty" about him? I agree with his views on practically everything (I don't see why Americans wouldn't), so I guess I'm a fucking nutjob too...

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ADL Colin

You are cherry picking a few items. The Republican platform looks nothing like the Libertarian platform. Compare today's Republicans with Libertarians on these issues; legalization of drugs, social rights of the individual, freedom from government search, laws to force a balanced budget, pornography. These parties are as far apart from each other as Democrats and Republicans.

Yeah, all my life I've heard Republicans campaign on smaller government. They don't actually do it. Bush and co. gave us Medicare D prescriptions. He campaigned on it. Medicare D is the biggest annual increase in social welfare spending in something like 40 years.I prefer to judge them by their actions and not their words. Republicans have a record of big spending. Permanent increased spending is increased taxation. Just that the tax increase will come in the future. Republicans, like the Democrats are equally big spenders now. And why not? The voters LOVE it. look at all those senior citizens voting for whomever promises increased medicare spending. That's a pretty big block of voters.

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ADL Colin

Errrrr, yeah.

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StickyGreen

Well I guess it isn't important if you don't care about the future of this country... Keep electing the lying pieces of shit who are in the elites' pockets...

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ADL Colin

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StickyGreen

What a surprise. You're basically calling me a nutjob because I support Ron Paul. Wow, we are really getting somewhere here...

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ADL Colin

What revolution? Paul will get a few votes in the primary and be largely forgotten about. 4 years from now the Republicans and Democrats will still be spending their asses off and the Libertarian party will manage about 1/3 of 1% of the election night votes.

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StickyGreen

ADL you're taking the time to pick apart my quotes and shit instead of discussing the issues (which is all that really matters). So it is obvious what your agenda is... you just want to talk shit and make fun of Ron Paul supporters. Get another hobby... you remind me of the msm...

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StickyGreen

What revolution? Do you think Ron Paul pulled over $6 Million in one day out of his ass or something? All of that money came from regular American citizens. Do you know where most of the other candidates get their donations from? I'll give you one guess lol...

And another thing... everyone knows Ron Paul's main support comes from the Internet, which is basically younger people. So these ideas of freedom and liberty and championing the Constitution will remain in the minds of the youth. Even at my school (Sac State) I see Ron Paul shit all over the place and he has even come up in discussions during class. This shit is bigger than Ron Paul... so quit repeating that he "has no chance" because we already know that... let it go...

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ADL Colin

I agree with a lot of the libertarian platform. You're confusing my beliefs with what I think will happen in the election. Paul will get stomped and be forgotten about.

Look, I like the Miami Dolphins more than the New England Patriots but I think the Patriots will destroy them. Do you think I am a closet Patriots fan for stating that? If I give you 10 reasons for why I think the Pats will win does that increase the odds that I am a closet Patriots fan? If a buncha Dolphins fans start 5 threads the day of the game and they are adamant about how they will win and I think they are completely silly does that mean I don't like the Dolphins?

The thread title is "Why is Ron Paul not higher in the polls".

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kane

Actually the polls are almost always correct. Two weeks before the Iowa caucus Jerry was polling in last place. Three days before the election he was polling in first place. Let's check Ron Paul out a few days before the election and I would bet he finishes within a few points of where that poll puts him.

StickyGreen

Fred Thompson just said on TV that the polls and media are almost always incorrect, so I guess you and ol' Fred disagree on that...

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TheDoc

Exactly.. The fed is here to protect the people and with abortion they did that by stepping in and protecting a womens right to choose. The same thing they did for the adult industry with the first amendment cases protecting us from being banned/blocked and pushed out cities/states across the country. An on going battle that still takes place today.

Many states population are twisted, super right wing, Christians that want to only control the minds of others. I do not want those people, including Huckabee, making any type of decisions for others in our population.

Now, the ideas of Ron Paul are great but it does not mean he has the solution.

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kane

I hate to be the albatross here but I think you are pretty far off base. yes, he has gotten a ton of donations from the internet and from individuals. But do those really mean anything? Not really. Every election there is someone like this. In the last election is was Howard Dean. He was polling first, but still got a ton of support from his website and from individual supporters. He disappeared and there was no revolution.

When you say words like revolution it immediately turns most people off and these college kids and internet kids really can't seem to be bothered to lead a revolution in any other place but an online forum. In the last election Kerry was very proud of the fact that he had registered a record number of under 21 and first time voters. He expected those young voters to take him to the white house. But on election day most of them didn't even bother to vote. I saw on thing on the news shortly after that election that showed of all the newly registered voters only about 1/3rd of them actually showed up. How can their be a revolution lead by the younger people of this country if they can't even be bothered to get off their ass for an hour to vote?

StickyGreen

He does have the solution. We all have the solution... it's called the Constitution.

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ADL Colin

Oh, come on. The issues we could just discuss are just the same old recycled stuff. We've both heard it all a million times before.

I mean, there's nothing new going on here. Everything Ron Paul is saying has been said before.

And Clinton and Giuliani sure aren't offering anything new. YAWWWWWWN.

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ADL Colin

Spot on

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kane

That is because he is down in the polls. If you are not in the lead you tell people polls can't be correct because you want your supporters to still believe in you.

The United Nations uses the same polling companies the our news channels and papers do in order to monitor elections in third world countries. They do this because polling is very accurate and in a few cases the data from polls has actually been used to prove elections to be rigged and bring about lawsuits and reelections.

How the poll is done really is the main source of how accurate it is. If the poll is done by a third party and is done correctly (which many of the big polls we see on the news are) they can almost always be counted on to be extremely accurate.

You can make a poll skew anyway you want, but when you look at the big companies that do this type of thing year in year out they are almost never wrong.

StickyGreen

I see what you're saying, but you can't really compare Howard Dean and Ron Paul. Ron Paul has helped to awaken Americans (some at least) on how messed up the whole system is right now and how we have lost our way. Most people don't even know about how the Federal Reserve works and how we are no longer on the gold standard. The "revolution" is more like an intellectual awakening. I think the fact that the important things that Ron Paul has been saying have actually been heard thanks to the Internet and the debates is what is most important.

My Dad said it best when he told me "Telling the truth is political suicide in this country." Unfortunately he is correct, but this time around it is a bit different thanks to the free exchange of ideas on the Internet... I believe the message of freedom and liberty will live on strongly after Ron Paul fades away...

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ADL Colin

You will not be able to stay home, brother.
You will not be able to plug in, turn on and cop out.
You will not be able to lose yourself on skag and skip,
Skip out for beer during commercials,
Because the revolution will not be televised.

The revolution will not be televised.
The revolution will not be brought to you by Xerox
In 4 parts without commercial interruptions.
The revolution will not show you pictures of Nixon
blowing a bugle and leading a charge by John
Mitchell, General Abrams and Spiro Agnew to eat
hog maws confiscated from a Harlem sanctuary.
The revolution will not be televised.

The revolution will not be brought to you by the
Schaefer Award Theatre and will not star Natalie
Woods and Steve McQueen or Bullwinkle and Julia.
The revolution will not give your mouth sex appeal.
The revolution will not get rid of the nubs.
The revolution will not make you look five pounds
thinner, because the revolution will not be televised, Brother.

There will be no pictures of you and Willie May
pushing that shopping cart down the block on the dead run,
or trying to slide that color television into a stolen ambulance.
NBC will not be able predict the winner at 8:32
or report from 29 districts.
The revolution will not be televised.

There will be no pictures of pigs shooting down
brothers in the instant replay.
There will be no pictures of pigs shooting down
brothers in the instant replay.
There will be no pictures of Whitney Young being
run out of Harlem on a rail with a brand new process.
There will be no slow motion or still life of Roy
Wilkens strolling through Watts in a Red, Black and
Green liberation jumpsuit that he had been saving
For just the proper occasion.

Green Acres, The Beverly Hillbillies, and Hooterville
Junction will no longer be so damned relevant, and
women will not care if Dick finally gets down with
Jane on Search for Tomorrow because Black people
will be in the street looking for a brighter day.
The revolution will not be televised.

There will be no highlights on the eleven o'clock
news and no pictures of hairy armed women
liberationists and Jackie Onassis blowing her nose.
The theme song will not be written by Jim Webb,
Francis Scott Key, nor sung by Glen Campbell, Tom
Jones, Johnny Cash, Englebert Humperdink, or the Rare Earth.
The revolution will not be televised.

The revolution will not be right back after a message
bbout a white tornado, white lightning, or white people.
You will not have to worry about a dove in your
bedroom, a tiger in your tank, or the giant in your toilet bowl.
The revolution will not go better with Coke.
The revolution will not fight the germs that may cause bad breath.
The revolution will put you in the driver's seat.

The revolution will not be televised, will not be televised,
will not be televised, will not be televised.
The revolution will be no re-run brothers;
The revolution will be live.

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