BFT3K

I am no expert for sure, but in my humble opinion, tube sites ARE a HUGE threat to the adult entertainment business.

When TGPs and MGPs began to gain popularity there were a lot of people who said the same thing, but there is no comparison.

MGPs and TGPs only gave visitors sample clips and images, and although they are considered by many to be "free" porn, they also served as advertisements for sites, gave affiliates lots of content to promote sites with, and increased sign-ups.

Tube sites on the other hand, often offer FULL scenes, so there is no need to sign-up to any site. In some cases they even go out of their way to block the watermark of the original video to actually prevent viewers from redirecting at all!

I will not list any of the MANY tube sites I have recently run across, as I do not wish to promote any of them at all, but now many tube sites are catering to specific niches, so site owners who pretend it is all okay, because their site(s) are more focused than the tube sites are living in a dream world.

The people on this board produce adult content for profit, or promote adult content for profit. The tube sites are cutting into that profit, and will continue to do so unless they are stopped. They are NOT helpful in ANY way!!!

THEY HAVE TO GO!

What can be done about this? Well, here are a few suggestions. I am posting this in hopes that some of you who understand this threat, can add a few more, and then MAYBE we can make the tube site problem go away, or become so problematic for their owners that they think twice before launching new ones...

Suggestions:

1) Do NOT do business with ANY advertisers that advertise on ANY tube sites. Call them out. Without advertisers tube sites do not make money. They are stealing OUR content, and then profiting on the traffic via advertiser revenue. Who are these advertisers? FUCK THEM! They are fucking us, so stop doing business with them until they get the point.

2) Write and share bandwidth sucking scripts specifically written to waste their bandwidth. In the short term this may improve their Alexa ratings or whatever, but once it is concluded that their traffic does not convert the advertisers will drop off, and their hosting bills will increase, thus resulting in less profit for the thieves.

3) NEVER join a tube site's premium or upgrade service. Don't give them a fucking nickle. They are stealing your profit, and they WILL destroy the adult online business. Don't fool yourselves, or think they will just play nice and go away.

4) If they are US based, or run by US companies or US citizens call them out for not having, or properly filing, their 2257 information. The US government is supposedly so concerned about all of this crazy record keeping insanity, and yet I have yet to hear of one inspection of a tube site.

There is an old saying... "Ignore your teeth and they will just go away"

Well, in this case the saying could be "Ignore the threat posed by tube sites and your profits and livelihood will just go away"

Well, that's my 2 cents anyway.

wanted

yes and no, they don't target the same kind of people..

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polish_aristocrat

yes they are a huge threat but half of the replies you'll get will be "adapt or get the fuck out of this biz"

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BFT3K

I think they target horny guys who wish to wack-off to porn.... pretty much the same people if you ask me.

Diligent

Actually... I think they can be good in a way for us that target surfers that actually pay for what they want.

Tubes attract the pure freeloaders, who are accustomed to getting online, search places they know for whackoff-material, whackoff.. and be done with it in a few minutes.

Essentially, they may "suck out" (no pun intended) the freeloaders from our traffic.
Tubes can keep them for all I care.. ;)

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BFT3K

I don't think so. For example: I am happy to pay for a nice steak dinner once in a while. If I had to choose between restaurants that SELL nice steak dinners, or those that give them out for FREE guess what?... I'm going for the free steak!

Your theory may apply to Yahoo groups or TGP or MGP sites, but NOT to tube sites. They are offering the FREE steak dinner, and we are paying for the steaks!

We need to wake up, and face this problem sooner, rather than later, when it is too late...

polish_aristocrat

megarotic / youporn offer much more than any paysite

all possible niches, everything for free...

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BFT3K

Accept the fact that assholes will steal your content, give it away for free, charge advertisers for this scam, or else get out of the business?

Let's imagine a world that worked like that?...

Store Owner: This is my grocery store.

Thief: Well, I will take what I want from your store, not pay you, then sell your groceries at my own store down the road.

Store Owner: Okay, that's fine. I guess that's how business works now, so I better adapt or go out of business. Oh well.

WHAT THE FUCK?!

Diligent

I do see what You guys are saying, but let me give an example of another sub-industry within the broad "Entertainment" sector:


Movies.

There are still people going to the cinemas, or buying original DVD's...

Out of all those that do pay these ways... I don't think more than a few % thought
"Alright, that's it! It's too damn expensive, so I'm just gonna download instead and watch then on my monitor!"

People who *can* afford it, prefer cinema/DVD's, because they feel the alternative is of inferior quality, or an inferior experience.

So the movie-industry really hasn't *lost* significantly to freeloaders, those who sit at home and download instead of paying, are cheapskates who were'nt fueling
the movie industry much anyways.

Now, here's where Adult online becomes an analogy to this:

This shit is inevitable, there will always be a 'cheapskate "market" ' in parallell with a *real* market, anywhere & everywhere...
TGP's were only the beginning of this in the history & sense of Adult online, now it's going further with Tubes and the likes.

Adapting (and surviving the changes) basically means heavier product branding + better catering to the customers needs/desires... Better/more quality, service, and nicheing.

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Diligent

BTW, in any case.. I'm not saying we shouldn't make it difficult for fucks who rip content and grows a gigantic tube-site...

But there ARE ways to combat that by laws, and that's probably a new part of the job here - to go after, or at least report the fuckers doing this to those that can take them down.

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Xrated J

tube sites will be the down fall of the western civilization

BFT3K

You can't really compare online porn to the movie business. People go to the movies because they want the experience of going to a movie. The sound is usually better, the screen is much bigger, maybe you are on a date, or out with friends, etc.

Porn on a computer screen is not a social event, and the clips you can watch for free via some of the tube sites are just as good as some clips you can find within some membership areas, only now they are free.

How do you "serve the customer's needs" any better than giving them FREE porn videos? The best pay site with the best customer service does not give you FREE content, so you can not compare the two.

When it comes to getting something for pay, versus getting something for free even people with money to burn will pick something for free, and that is why we have to deal with these rediculous sites.

Watching porn alone on a small screen in the privacy of your room is nothing like going to a movie theatre. The comparison just doesn't work, no offense...

MicDoohan

well we know cecash wouldn't care because you sponsor sites like www.redtube.com think tube sites aren't a problem? take a look at that site and get back to me. i may only be sending 10 joins a day to sponsors but you will never get one unique from me

BFT3K

Well, I suppose time will tell, but my bet is the subscription based online adult website business will become a thing of the past much sooner, as long as everyone dismisses these tube sites as irrelevant.

Let's meet back here in one year to see where the industry stands...

Diligent

Ok, sorry for not being more clear on how I think.

What I'm saying is... I think that apart from the online porn buyers during the "wild wild web" era (upto ~y2k), those surfers that are actually the most willing to
cough up some dough, are more or less connoiseurs...

Just like people who prefer to spend a bit more out in a restaurant, versus regular folks heading to the burger/pizza joint.

I think the "good buyers" I'm talking about, prefer logging into an official "MILF/Ebony/Tranny Hunter" site, than wading through more randomly organized content at Tubes.

Let legal tubes handle the cheapskate market, with suck-ass conversions while targeted marketers' conversions *enhance*... and let the illegal tubes burn!

These guys also zone in on specific models and so forth!
And THAT'S where illegal Tubes with 20 min. video clips etc. are no match to us, You do realize how much trouble they're getting themselves into by ripping
branded content, don't You..?

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d-null

the thing about it is, to those that say "adapt"... the tube sites themselves are a big threat to the tube sites as a business.....


even with the "business" model of stealing all of your content so your content is costing nothing, the bandwidth costs vs a shrinking advertising revenue stream (cams and dating are going to be rapidly saturated and more tube sites popping up all the time are going to make the 'instant huge traffic' that the first few on the scene enjoyed will not come as easily)

The bottom line is the huge amounts of money that flowed into the adult business from consumers credit cards signing up to pay sites in the past will likely drop drastically as the free tube sites become better known and better at giving the surfers all that they desire for free.... much less incoming dollars spread even thinner (maybe in a year the adult boards will become more like the mainstream boards, where someone will brag about having a big 75 cent day on adsense and the other webmasters will all be "congratulations dude")

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ninavain

If TUBE sites aren't hurting the biz, something sure the hell is..No secret that new sales on porn sites are declining faster each year. I've heard from the biggest companies to the new upstarts. It's already happening, but none of the main players will come on here and say anything..They just raise the PPS amounts in order to get more of your traffic, honestly do you think you're getting $100-$200 per each and every sign up you send the big boys?? c'mon
The tubes/ the rapidshare/ the password sites..it's all putting a major hurt on exclusive content producer

tony286

We belong to a short sighted industry,thats the problem.

BFT3K

You speak the truth brother. The big question is...

WHAT THE FUCK ARE WE GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?

I posted some options early on in this post, but no one commented on the ideas, or added any of their own.

TUBE SITE OWNERS ARE RATS! CALL THEM OUT, AND LET'S FUCK EM!

farkedup

You can't stop tube sites.... They ARE the next wave. I'm working hard to support using sponsored content in my tube script but really the bulk of the webmasters simply use this as filler content and fill the rest of their sites with full scenes. What the SPONSORS need to do instead of only offering 30 second clips is up this to 60-90 seconds and then MORE tubes will use their content because they want to make $$$ too so they greatly benefit from sending the traditional pay sites visitors/money.

There are simply too many ways of getting free porn in this day and age for you to get your panties in a twist about TUBE sites. Torrents, newsgroups, and so many other places are BETTER sources for real porn. the TUBE sites generally only offer clips or much lower quality sections of video's. The real threat is the places offering full HD VIDEO"S at full DVD size.

Tube are your FRIEND when compared to those.... a simply 400-500 pixel FLV file simply isn't the kind of thing I can whack off to... I personally grab full DVD's and put them through my PROJECTOR for massive boobies...

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BFT3K

Sad but true.

Jon - Pussy.org

I posted the same thing many weeks ago, but instead we adapted:

http://pussy.org/videos.html

and judging by our record number of pageviews yesterday I guess its working!

J

tony286

two questions more important than pageviews how have your ratios been? If they dont buy it means nothing. Second what kind of bandwidth do you burn with that site? It looks very good.

design.guru.guy

so now that porn is free...what are we gonna do?

pocketkangaroo

I don't see how anyone can say that tube sites that carry full length members area videos would not hurt this industry. And I'm tired of this "these are people who wouldn't buy porn anyways" argument. It was used by people in the music industry, and they have seen sales plummet over the years.

Take redtube.com for example. I can find almost every single Nasty Dollars full length video on that site. I can find full length videos from major sites, solo girls, and just about anything I'm looking for. Why the fuck would I sign up for MilfHunter when I can get EVERY video they have on redtube for free?

I understand that the industry is changing and I'm OK with that. I'm not OK with people saying that these tube sites that give away stolen members area content are not hurting the industry.

ytcracker

i think tube sites serve their purpose in the business and those who run them and maximize them will surely see massive riches

so yea, as stated before, adapt or gtfo

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BFT3K

THAT'S RIGHT PK - SHOUT IT FROM THE ROOF!

....getting tired now... very tired.... zzzzz...

First the tubes kill off the member sites, then they eat themselves up in firce competion over the last of the scraps, then it is concluded that free porn is out of control, and suddenly it's gone.... poof!

... Huh? What? Oh, sorry I must've blacked out for a moment. .. what were we talking about again? I must have drifting off track, sorry....

Zorgman

I think you guys need to understand, there is 2 types of Tube sites now.

1. Stolen content tube sites: megarotic / youporn
2. Sponsors approved tube sites ( example: superporntube.com )

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L-Pink

We have just about trained an generation that porn is a free product. Try to over-come that!

tony286

What kind of conversion does a legal tube get from someone looking for free 20 mins clips and they find a site full of 30sec to 2 mins clips?

madfuck

Ooo shit tht was a lot to read... but hey whtevr

Zorgman

Tony, Iv found that its more of a tease for the surfer. 30 clips is not enough to jurk off to so they are forced to click the sponsor to find more details.
Ratios depends on the site your promoting and how you promote it. Iv always done well with my tube sites with the low traffic I throw at them.

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BFT3K

Good point, and spot on!

Surfers will certainly choose the illegal tubes for their selection of longer (mostly stolen) clips.

Legal tubes? Perhaps as a replacement for current MGPs... I guess I could see that, but the illegal tube sites are still a cancer on the adult biz, regardless.

L-Pink

The problem is not tube-sites, it's STOLEN CONTENT!

BFT3K

Wow, you are definitely a porn fan! You are that rare breed of collector with the time to register for a file sharing site, then find, select, and eventually download large HD clips based upon text descriptions, then burn the content to a DVD, then pull out the old video projector out, and FINALLY wank to some wall sized smut! Awesome!

Most people just look for free content LIKE ILLEGAL TUBE SITES and get off in a few minutes without the hassle.... weird.

Towlie: I'm so high I don't know what's going on...

pocketkangaroo

Depends what kind of tube sites you are talking about. As others have mentioned, there is stolen ones and legit ones.

tony286

Are the clips free hosted or are you hosting and it if your hosting what kind of bandwidth do you go thru?

d-null

all these wanna-be streaming tube sites won't have a chance

this year and the next will see the explosion of popularity of youporn and its 20 minute clips in hi-resolution.... any fool that can turn on a computer will soon know about youporn

these dinky little crappy streaming vid sites will not be a factor and won't make any money anyways, especially as the next year starts to play out

there might be a few others that make a go of it, but revenues a la the youtube mainstream model will be much smaller and difficult to monetize for adult, as the revenue sources start to mature and saturate

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BFT3K

Absolutely, but the tube sites are so fucking blatent about it that they are in a league by themselves. And they make it so easy for the surfers too - no credit card, no age verification, no sign-ups, etc.

There are plenty of forums, file share sites, password sharing sites, and on and on, that deal in stolen content, but it is the rise of the illegal tube sites that really takes it all to a brand new level. They threaten the industry in a much bigger way.

Zorgman

All 16,000 clips on superporntube.com are sponsor hosted. My bandwidth for that site is very low. Nothing like it would be if I was hosting the content myself.

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Sausage

Lumping all the tube sites in with the likes of youporn etc isn't really fair.

There are a number .. including mine who don't take super long clips and try to remain webmaster friendly. The traffic quality is pretty good .. easily on par with tgp traffic ... and while we don't do millions of hits a day there is profit to be made. BW is huge though, and those with really huge videos and 100% freeloader traffic are going to fail eventually.

I seem to remember the same outcry when tgps started replacing picposts. The sky isn't falling, and the downward trend in sales over the past 8 years can't be directly attributed to tube sites.

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BFT3K

Oh well, looks like apathy will win out as usual. I guess we'll see what happens over time...

Barefootsies

They are an annoyance.

I have better things to do than police my content. However, I do it twice a month, and when I find it. They are hit with a C&D.

They typically have it removed in 24-48 hours, and they claim to ban the user, or block whatever it is they say they block. I think it's the file names.

I find it hard to believe that bigger, pimpin phat, money rolling, Ferrari driving, mansion living companies can't manage to do this a couple of times a month.

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Enough Said.

"Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

viencarl

well in my opinion its true bro but no one want to speak about it

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tranza

Here we go again..........

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Barefootsies

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Enough Said.

"Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

MattO

Tube sites with large clips are teaching surfers that porn is free. Do you know how many times on mainstream discussion boards I've seen variations of "who pays for porn?" ??

Today's surfers think they are entitled to free porn.

sexuallyhealed

making $ off online porn is a dying thing..

Martin

I'll say it before and I'll say it again? These programs need to start protecting their content.. Where do you think this content is coming from?

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V_RocKs

This guy is an asshole:
http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?t=796992