LadyMischief

I don't think you realize the depth of what's involved. Do you have any idea of the sheer volume of the content library we are responsible for? We could run ourselves absolutely broke tied up in litigation for years, pay lawyers a salary for years to come sending out cease and desist orders... what do you really think that's going to gain anyone in the end? Please tell me, what are we or anyone else going to gain from that? We do the very best we can, but let's be realistic here for a moment, and realize that fiscally, it's IMPOSSIBLE to police the internet the way it needs to be to really accomplish the goal we're setting forth. We are all, ALL adult businesses, dealing with the evolution of the internet, the surfer, and the entire business model that we've been used to dealing with, we have the choice to adapt, find other ways to deal with the issues, or die. We can continue to smash our heads against a wall trying to fight something we really can't affect true change at, or we can find ways to make the truth of the matter work for us. Do you even know how much it costs to take litigation to court on this level for a month? For 6 months? For a year? For 5? Until you grasp the fiscal reality of the issue and really realize the depth of what's involved, you won't be able to grasp the essential truth of what I'm saying? Does it chap my ass that content thieves are rampant EVERYWHERE, and the ones who are MOST responsible for that are the ones that are the LEAST accountable, the surfers themselves? YES! It pisses me off to no end, and if I thought it was feasible to stop it all at the source, I would in a heartbeat. Reality is stark, and much different than the ideal. Fact of the matter is, we can't stop the END USER from sharing, but we CAN reach out to the END user, and find ways to work with them, find ways to turn those situations from a matter of theft to a matter of sharing an idea, pushing a product and making people excited about something they've never heard of before. Homegrown is a hell of a lot more than a content library. It's a lifestyle, it's a feeling, and the MEMBERS, the FANS, THOSE people know that they get more from being a part of our site than downloading our videos off a torrent site. They can be a part of the EXPERIENCE, and it's the same kind of reason that people go to an apple store to buy their preimium priced ipods instead of buying a cheap imitation at wal mart, or a cheap one off ebay. It's about the EXPERIENCE, and THAT is what makes a customer for life.

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tony286

You have made great points I have no problem with legal tubes but doing business with thieves thinking we can control them is foolhardy at best.look at the other thread vg started,they are already not following shap's rules and there was also a 9 min twisty's video there also."You dance with the devil,he doesnt change you do".

quantum-x

If you had the option of paying $500 for an iPod or getting one for free, what would you choose?

The analogy falls short..

Barefootsies

You mean "CLAIM" to have.

But I supposed that depends on who you consider a "playa". Or "big company".

Just try working out some deals with these "players" you'll see how shallow their pockets really are.

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Enough Said.

"Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

LadyMischief

The real question being, how many people HAVE that choice, but STILL choose the complete experience? We underestimate consumers assuming they ALWAYS go for the deal. Many consumers go for the experience, they get more out of a purchase than just making the purchase.

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LadyMischief

Even big companies couldn't neccessarily continue to afford it over time. Consider, larger companies, larger content libraries, larger legal bills to protect every single work. Litigation isn't cheap. Multiply that by titles, countries, offenders, and you quickly realize that the cost is so far out of whack with the potential gain, and you realize why a dozen companies aren't already up to their elbows in it.

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LadyMischief

Yes, I realize that it is a double-edged sword. There is not going to be any way around that. The unfortunate truth, sweetie, is that mainstream business has to come up against these same hurdles just like we do in adult. They realize that fiscally, it would be impossible for them to fight it all, so like we must, they pick and choose their battles, and make lemonade out of the lemons left over.

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The Judge

All you need is a couple of cases to hit national media where John Doe from Smalltown is being sued for $1,000,000 for downloading porn and lost his job/wife as a result of the suit. Every freeloader watching this on the news will think ten times before downloading pirated porn again.

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wizzart

Why some big fish don't report to hosting company sites like redtube or pornhub and tell them did they use illegal content on theirs servers?

Barefootsies

My guess is there are some behind the scenes, back room shenanigans going on we do not see, or hear about. Common sense seems to be not so common on some of these complaints on the board.

Why companies 10-100 times the size of mine can't control, or hit harder than a complaint on a message board is beyond me.

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Enough Said.

"Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

Bossman

and probably also stop downloading the legal porn...

Suing surfers must be the last resort... the tube sites got an entire supplyline, which can be sued, or given bad publicity. These are the people that should be focused on - ALL businesses have at least one achilles heal in their supply line.

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Paul Markham

It took 17 posts for someone to come up with something we could do and might work.

What can Tubes not do?

Make a list and then see how we doit at a price the surfer will buy at.

I will start it off.

Deliver high quality fast speed movies. (Tubes can't because of the BW bill.)

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Zorgman

Paul, surfers don't need high quality fast streaming movies. They can jerk off to low quality shit movies for free. They don't know the difference.

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The Judge

Take a look at this
http://www.alexa.com/site/ds/top_sit...obal&lang=none

These two rapidshare and megaupload are bigger than ALL tgps combined and are only getting bigger. You don't even need torrents, just go to your fav. surfer board and start downloading full movies, any retard can master that.

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Paul Markham

You win a war by spotting gaps in your opponents plans, set up, approach. Not by meeting them head on and attacking their strong points.

What's the odds on us coming together and sending to "Coventry" anyone who has anything to do with pirated content? NIL, zero, noting and no fucking chance.

So what can Tubes not afford to deliver?

Quality is one, BW bill will kill them. Good servers, good quality and easy to navigate.

Price is the next thing. Most Tube surfers are the ones who don't want 30 days for $30 with the bother of cancelling recurring and a site with 40 scenes of the same girl or same shooter. So give them what they want at the price they want to pay.

So long as we try to charge more than they are willing to pay they will stay away. The days of getting a guy who wants 20 minutes to sign up for 30 days are over. Unless you have something very special to sell.

Hit him where he can't hit back.

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TheDoc

Several sites already offer 1000 times more content than tubes do, in different formats, for download, and with a ton of other shit, and more updates. That makes no difference and is about the most illogical thing I have read in the last 5 minutes.

The price of paysites makes little to no difference. VOD sites are rockin and the price is way higher. It's all about getting your site/material in front of the visitors face as many times as possible. It's why email marketing works so well. It's why Tubes actually send sales. Volume plus exposure equals sales.

Tubes make money, several are owned by affiliate programs. People will advertise on them, period. Stolen content, free content, torrents, newsgroups, p2p networks...ALL of it sends sales, always has, and always will.

People thinking they can stop just Tubes or stop pirated content are the same people that have 100+ password leaks right now and don't know about it.

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Bossman

How much money do you think you will make once all of us hit up the tube sites with our content?

Enjoy you got in early, so you could see it peaked, but do not think it will be long lasting, and remember that each time the market drops, then its finding a new bottom

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TheDoc

My sales and money have increased over the last 10 years. Yes I have a few ups and downs, but overall I have nothing but growth. My size, sales, and money won't go down because of free porn, tubes, or torrents. Those are all avenues of more exposure, and more exposure will get me more sales, period.

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Barefootsies

You misguided soul.

I believe people have posted their "conversions" on these tube sites for adult material (obviously not dating). It was like 1:50000 or something crazy.

That is hardly anything to brag about.

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Enough Said.

"Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

onno

if you live outside the states i think you going to have some problems to do that... in most of the countries we have privacy laws that protect the surfers... so good luck with your idea

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Davy

The search engines should ban torrent sites from their listings.
When I search for ANY porn term on google, the front page is filled with torrent downloads.

Somebody should sue google directly for helping in the distribution of illegal material.

TheDoc

Point? I have seem people post 1:50k ratios from TGP's, I have personally seen 100's of webmasters convert all types of traffic at 1:10k, 20k, 50, and even over 100k. Even search engine traffic.

I use traffic in several ways, I filter it, I trade it, I exit it, and I subscribe it. My focus isn't always to get my ratios down but what I can do with that traffic to produce more traffic which will produce more overall sales.

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TheDoc

You can do that, Google should comply. They have with others at least.

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BV

that sounds like a lot of work but not such a bad idea

The Judge

A. 80% of the sales come from the US
B. Privacy laws do not protect content pirating

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papill0n

That is a great idea.

onno

A. 80% of the sales maybe come from the us... but we are talking about people that get it for free..

B. you cant do nothing against that people since their laws protect them... no all countries has same laws as in the us... the laws doesn't protect you from piracy, but you cant use their info because they are protected by privacy laws.... if not why music industry cant do nothing?

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mcfester

Theres your answer, work with the anti porn groups to push for (full) porn to be only available in paid members areas, if the tubes make their sites paid members you can sue them for using your content, they have no excuse.

Davy

They don't have a good excuse right now, either, in my opinion.
The damage is done, once the video is uploaded.
Doesn't matter if the tube webmaster takes them down as fast as he can.
The tube sites should all have a moderation queue. That's the way they should prevent illegal uploads, not waiting for people to email them to take their content down.

The Judge

The point I am trying to make is that no one cares about those 'countries' since they do not buy memberships anyways so let them burn the tubes bw as much as they want. Its the US and 2 or 3 others that really matter.

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halfpint

The paysite owners could make thier members areas a lot more interactive give the surfer a reason to want to join your site.

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