All Jokes aside, Do you think McCain had a chance if he didn't...

[Semi-Retired-Dave]

Choose Palin as his running mate? Did she kill it for him?

[selena]

I wasn't very enthusiastic about him prior to that selection, but was the deal breaker for me. She did get the right wing conservatives whipped up, but she also alienated moderate conservatives in a big way.

[LiveDose]

I think he should have voted against the bailout and used that issue as a hail mary.

[Mutt]

wouldn't have made the difference for him - but i think when the election gets analyzed more they'll say she was a negative - Palin is 'preaching to the choir', she definitely appealed to the core of the Republican party but those people were going to vote McCain anyway. They hoped she would help the ticket grab a significant number of estranged and disappointed Hillary Clinton female supporters - and it looks like that backfired - Clinton's pantsuit brigade are college educated liberal women - Palin may look like them but her views on practically everything including a woman's right to choice on abortion repulsed them and instead of sitting out this election she provoked those ladies into action for Obama.

[baddog]

Originally Posted by CyberAge-Dave

Choose Palin as his running mate? Did she kill it for him?

Palin was what killed it for him for sure.

[ronaldo]

I honestly don't believe he had a chance, even if he had Ronald Reagan's corpse as his running mate. Bush killed it for any Republican this election. But, choosing Palin didn't help him. Hell, Reagan's corpse would have out debated Palin.

Most women saw through what they were trying to do within minutes of the announcement.

[Almost Evil]

I think he shot himself in the foot by choosing her as a running mate. I wasnt super fond of Obama, and was leaning toward McCain. That changed the minute he chose Palin.

[After Shock Media]

If he would not done all the mistakes he did verbally, campaign wise, so forth and then maybe he would of had a shot. Palin was just part of the iceberg. Honestly he very well could of made it damn close or had it if not for the combined effect of ever goof.

Oh and not using technology much, and depending on a past republican ground game without nurturing it at all did not help.

[Malicious Biz]

Bush built the coffin.. palin was the final nail in it.

[mikeyddddd]

Originally Posted by ronaldo

Bush killed it for any Republican this election.

But, McCain was the only Republican who could have distanced himself from Bush and even had a chance to win.

Running as the 2000 McCain and not going so negative he may have won - without Palin.

Staying a maverick, instead of being a pair of mavericks, might have been enough for him.

[mikesouth]

palin is what doomed him

he needed the independent vote and he would have gotten far more, maybe even mine had he not picked her

she polled massively unfavorable with independents and thats what cost him

[pocketkangaroo]

If he picked Romney or someone else who could be strong on economics, I think he would have had a good shot.

[WinstonTriplexcash]

Palin was a big contribution to macCain's failed bid.

[PXN]

I don't think he'll win either way, but without Palin she would have done a lot better. After 8 yrs of Bush it so bad even my dog can get elected.

[uno]

Originally Posted by LiveDose

I think he should have voted against the bailout and used that issue as a hail mary.

That is partially how I view things.

1) His choice of Palin will go down as one of the worst vp choices in a long time.

2) He gave a speech stating quite emphatically that the "fundamentals of the economy are strong" and two hours later delivered another speech and basically said "omfg just kidding before, we're in deep shit, i need to suspend my campaign and fly to washington, lol ."

3) If he voted against the bailout... er um... rescue package... he would have done a large part to get the middle of the country, where most of the population resides and would have helped him bolster his former "maverick" image.

[Corleone]

financial crisis, palin and a horrible campaign. grandpa can retire now

[Hank_Heartland]

No, George Bush killed it for him...but he also helped

[webmasterchecks]

if that and the economy didnt do what it did a month ago, i think it would have been 50/50 or so

[Machete_]

The republicans are facing the same trouble a lot of "conservative" parties here in Europe. They have moved to far left to appeal to the leftish votes. They now preach a message that aren't backed by actions. You cant have a Liberal/Conservative Party that insists on more and more control and centralization

The republicans deserved to loose. They shouldn't have put Palin in that spot. They should have put someone who knew how to do the job, instead of pleasing the demographics.


There is one thing the americans should be pround of in this election - and that is the amount of new voters

[crockett]

Originally Posted by CyberAge-Dave

Choose Palin as his running mate? Did she kill it for him?

McCain for the first time today in his campaign spoke like the McCain of 00. Had that McCain ran, I think he would have had a very good chance. The McCain of 00 wouldn't have ever picked Palin.

[Iron Fist]

Maybe it's worth mentioning how much SNL parodied Palin and McCain and linking them to Bush over and over again. And people HATED Bush... no wonder the little rat never showed his face during the campaign.

[seeric]

he lost because of george bush.
he lost because people are tired of the same old.
he lost because the world thinks the citizens of this country are not in charge of their republic.
he lost because he's old.
he lost because the economy is beyond repair by his party.
he lost because his platform was a fairytale.
he lost because it was time for change.
the list goes on and on.
the people spoke.
i welcome it, even if it gets worse before better.
fuck the good old boys network. good fucking riddance cocksmokers. eat a dickup till you hickup.

[onlymovies]

Being republican, i'm so glad my party lost. I'm so fucking embarrased....

Fuckers are just plain out stupid. Their whole campaign, the Palin choice, and all their bullshit...how COULD anyone think they would win? Nothing made any sense. McCain/Palin was the best choice? WTF is wrong with people. And on top of that, watching my party step all over Ron Paul (who i would have loved to heard more from) just goes to show that they deserve everything they get.

Stupid republican fucks...karma's a motherfuckin' bitch.......

[Matt 26z]

Someone posted this question at FreeRepublic and they got slammed for it. All of the responses were that Palin is the only reason they voted for McCain (these people presumably would not have voted at all otherwise).

But, yes, Palin absolutely disgusted the left and I think time will tell that the center was afraid of her becoming president.

[PXN]

Originally Posted by onlymovies

Being republican, i'm so glad my party lost. I'm so fucking embarrased....

Fuckers are just plain out stupid. Their whole campaign, the Palin choice, and all their bullshit...how COULD anyone think they would win? Nothing made any sense. McCain/Palin was the best choice? WTF is wrong with people. And on top of that, watching my party step all over Ron Paul (who i would have loved to heard more from) just goes to show that they deserve everything they get.

Stupid republican fucks...karma's a motherfuckin' bitch.......

I like Ron Paul and think he would be a better Candidate. I like his fiscal conservative view. But I think he'll can't beat Obama too even if he won the Republic nomination. His voice sounds weird. Sound like a woman moaning. Sorry I don't mean to offend Mr. Paul, but everytime he open his mouth I hear a woman moaning.

[After Shock Media]

I know it will sound like a joke, but he also lost because of the tubes. OK I am being serious here. The tubes (youtube in particular) really was around to show every mistake someone makes, the shit they are saying in another area, or some skit or appearance you could of missed if you did not catch it when it aired.

[NTSS]

He lost because of Palin 1st and Bush 2nd.

60% of actual voters had a negative opinion of her and the majority of those voters, voted for Obama. (I forget the actual number).

We all know how Bush affected everything.


I believe McCain could have overcome the Bush effect had he not picked Palin as his running mate. It would have been a much closer race and he may have even won.

It's true that Palin ignited the right-wing conservative republican base, however she failed to pull in the Hillary supporters as expected. She was just too far right.

[NTSS]

Originally Posted by After Shock Media

I know it will sound like a joke, but he also lost because of the tubes. OK I am being serious here. The tubes (youtube in particular) really was around to show every mistake someone makes, the shit they are saying in another area, or some skit or appearance you could of missed if you did not catch it when it aired.

I believe it had a lot to do with it. As a matter of fact I just closed up shop and deleted all my vids...lol

[V_RocKs]

Couple things:

If he had picked an actual running mate...
If he wasn't so quick to get pissed off about shit...
If the Right Wing Republican Christians didn't LIE about the effects of a NO vote on 8.

I might have considered it...

Had he said that he would make it his first duty to put Karl Rove on trial, it would have been a slam dunk for me.

[NikKay]

Originally Posted by Mutt

wouldn't have made the difference for him - but i think when the election gets analyzed more they'll say she was a negative - Palin is 'preaching to the choir', she definitely appealed to the core of the Republican party but those people were going to vote McCain anyway. They hoped she would help the ticket grab a significant number of estranged and disappointed Hillary Clinton female supporters - and it looks like that backfired - Clinton's pantsuit brigade are college educated liberal women - Palin may look like them but her views on practically everything including a woman's right to choice on abortion repulsed them and instead of sitting out this election she provoked those ladies into action for Obama.

This certainly rings true for me. I intended to sit out on this one because I wasn't sold on either candidate. Palin frustrated me so much I had to vote against her.

[AngusAl]

The entire Palin thing was a HUGE mistake! But I honestly don't think there was a REPUBLICAN on the planet that could have overcome the damage BUSH has done.
But what i think really sealed it was this simple.
If McCain did NOT put ANY more research or thought into his VP (considering every sign/bumper sticker/ commercial/ news cast/ etc) is going to have MCCAIN/PALIN branding the two of them together. Then i think everyone questioned "what kind of other HUGE mistakes will this guy make as president"
Just my my thoughts........GO OBAMA!!

[Drake]

If the Palin we saw at the RNC (competent, knowledgeable, moderate, genuine fiscal conservative) was the true Palin, the race would have been close, if not a victory for McCain even in this Democratic year.

The only question that would remain is if he still could have managed the storm caused by the economic crash. Would his reaction have been different if he had a runningmate knowlegeable about the economy? We'll never know, but his reaction was the nail in the coffin. The timing was perfect for Obama. It was pure luck. The crash could have come a month after the election rather than before it.

The voting demographics/percentages were pretty similar to previous elections (eg. most blacks and women voted Democratic, slightly over half of whites voted Republican) with the exception of the Latino and youth vote which gave Obama a much needed advantage.

Aside from the Palin choice, this election was shaped largely by circumstances outside of each candidate's control. The economic crisis, the changes in the electorate, generational gap (Obama the young/new, McCain the old guard).

It's interesting that war veterans running for President haven't faired well in the past 20 years.

[ninavain]

Originally Posted by A1R3K

he lost because of george bush.
he lost because people are tired of the same old.
he lost because the world thinks the citizens of this country are not in charge of their republic.
he lost because he's old.
he lost because the economy is beyond repair by his party.
he lost because his platform was a fairytale.
he lost because it was time for change.
the list goes on and on.
the people spoke.
i welcome it, even if it gets worse before better.
fuck the good old boys network. good fucking riddance cocksmokers. eat a dickup till you hickup.

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by selena

I wasn't very enthusiastic about him prior to that selection, but was the deal breaker for me. She did get the right wing conservatives whipped up, but she also alienated moderate conservatives in a big way.

Yeah she killed any chance he had of getting my vote. MCcain's time as in 2000 but the GOP was too stupid and nominated Bush. Back then they couldn't stand McCain now in 2008 they love him? Does that even make any kind of sense? I like republicans to explain why in 2000 McCain was a piece of shit and yet in 2008 he's your guy?

[thehand]

Originally Posted by A1R3K

he lost because of george bush.

I believe this to be the number one reason.

Palin didn't help though

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by thehand

I believe this to be the number one reason.

Palin didn't help though

See Plain was the female version of George Bush. So it's hard for McCain to seperate himself from Bush when his running mate reminds everyone of George Bush. I still say Romney would have been a better choice and McCain could have won.

[Tom_PM]

I think what killed it for him was his decisions to get all cozy with the exact same people he had pushed away from after 2000, and in so doing gained another notch in is Maverick label that started with his rants on spending bills.

I dont think any vp pick would have turned the tide. It was like he was born again, then died again, then ran for president.. not gonna work.

[Semi-Retired-Dave]

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo

If he picked Romney or someone else who could be strong on economics, I think he would have had a good shot.

I agree with you 100%
He played politics by bringing her because of her being a woman and it seemed to work the first 2 weeks until she spoke.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo

If he picked Romney or someone else who could be strong on economics, I think he would have had a good shot.

What amazed me was the actual vote. The popular vote was very close and that's amazing when you list the mistakes.

Bush, Iraq, economy, fat cat bankers and CEOs, Palin, the campaign and his age should of all factored in and he should of been buried. But it ended up with him being 3-4% short of getting more votes than Obama. Maybe with a decent running mate and a decent campaign he could of pulled it off.

The big question for me is why did 46.3% think him and Palin were a better bet than Obama and Biden? Now that is scary.

[Semi-Retired-Dave]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

What amazed me was the actual vote. The popular vote was very close and that's amazing when you list the mistakes.

Bush, Iraq, economy, fat cat bankers and CEOs, Palin, the campaign and his age should of all factored in and he should of been buried. But it ended up with him being 3-4% short of getting more votes than Obama. Maybe with a decent running mate and a decent campaign he could of pulled it off.

The big question for me is why did 46.3% think him and Palin were a better bet than Obama and Biden? Now that is scary.

That is scary,why? Not sure!

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

What amazed me was the actual vote. The popular vote was very close and that's amazing when you list the mistakes.

If you looked at past elections the popular vote is NOT that close. In the previous 12 elections only 1964, 1972, 1984 and 1988 did the winner get a higher % of the popular vote. And in 1988 it wasn't that much higher.

[WhiplashDug]

Originally Posted by uno

That is partially how I view things.

1) His choice of Palin will go down as one of the worst vp choices in a long time.

Wrong... she actually drew crowds as large as Obama on her own. McCain was the problem with the McCain campaign. Without her on the ticket... he would have lost by 10-15%.

2) He gave a speech stating quite emphatically that the "fundamentals of the economy are strong" and two hours later delivered another speech and basically said "omfg just kidding before, we're in deep shit, i need to suspend my campaign and fly to washington, lol ."

3) If he voted against the bailout... er um... rescue package... he would have done a large part to get the middle of the country, where most of the population resides and would have helped him bolster his former "maverick" image.

1) Wrong... she actually drew crowds far larger than McCain and as large as Obama on her own. McCain was the drag on the McCain campaign. Without her on the ticket... he would have lost by 10-15%. Like her or not... Palin will be a huge national figure for a long time.

2) He was right. FUNDAMENTALS are strong. That is why GDP was only slightly negative last quarter - far better than expected. AND You are right, in that it was stupid of him to say 'ooops'! He should have stuck to his original statement and offered proof.

3) YOU ARE absolutely right. He should have fought that pay-off... er um... rescue package all the way - had he done so, he would have caried a huge victory. The conservatives did not vote for him (only 80%) because he is not a conservative. Many conservatives voted for Obama - as they see him as the 2nd coming of Carter - who's fiscal stupidity and TAX INCREASES brought in basically 30 years of conservative rule. The conservatives are counting on Obama to do the same thing.

My thoughts... the US is still, a Right of Center country and very conservative. McCain lost the election because he tried to act too much like a centrist and too little like a conservative. But, McCain is not a conservative and never has been. If you need proof of this, look nationally at local ballot issues that would be Right -vs- Left and you will see that the RIGHT won most of their issues... even in California.

[PXN]

Looking back, I think the strategy he was trying to make by picking Palin is to win over Hiliary Clinton supporter, it kinda work at first because Hila's supporter is angry. Her rating once roars but till that stupid interview where she claim she have foreign creditability because she can see Russia from Alaska. After that everything drop like a bomb.

[WhiplashDug]

Originally Posted by PXN

Her rating once roars but till that stupid interview where she claim she have foreign creditability because she can see Russia from Alaska. After that everything drop like a bomb.

Yes.. and she can thank the McCain campaign people for making that statement first. She had to defend it - or make McCain look stupid.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

What amazed me was the actual vote. The popular vote was very close and that's amazing when you list the mistakes.

Bush, Iraq, economy, fat cat bankers and CEOs, Palin, the campaign and his age should of all factored in and he should of been buried. But it ended up with him being 3-4% short of getting more votes than Obama. Maybe with a decent running mate and a decent campaign he could of pulled it off.

The big question for me is why did 46.3% think him and Palin were a better bet than Obama and Biden? Now that is scary.

Compared to previous elections, the popular vote isn't very close, but in real terms, I agree, it's pretty close.

But it doesn't surprise me at all. First, the country has been strongly divided, entrenched almost 50/50 for some time now. Secondly, Obama is anything but a conventional candidate. Up until the final vote was cast yesterday, conventional wisdom says Obama should not win. He's young, he's socially black, he hasn't spent much time in the Senate, he has a thin resume, his name is Barack HUSSEING Obama (as his opponents reminded everybody within earshot all day every day), his life story - while an American Dream is unlike one most Americans know or can relate to, he's an unkown in many respects, he's liberal, he said he'll increase taxes on the most powerful in society, and so on. Because of these things he became a punching bag by Republicans - they derided and smeared him as a Muslim, a terrorist, Kenyan rather than America, etc etc. All things that played up to emotions and cast doubt among key voting groups such as the elderly (who broke in favor of McCain on election night in spite of how the polls suggested Obama had closed the gap in the days up to the election).

He was always the underdog. A convergence of circumstances (economic meltdown) along with his strategic campaigning and superior oratory skills put him over the top. He made his greatest weakness of inexperience a strength using the 'change' theme.

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by WhiplashDug

1) Wrong... she actually drew crowds far larger than McCain and as large as Obama on her own. McCain was the drag on the McCain campaign. Without her on the ticket... he would have lost by 10-15%. Like her or not... Palin will be a huge national figure for a long time.

She drew crowds of hardcore neo-cons that were voting McCain anyways. She wasn't reaching independants. and she was turning of liberal republicans. Don't believe me go look at the vote totals.

2) He was right. FUNDAMENTALS are strong. That is why GDP was only slightly negative last quarter - far better than expected. AND You are right, in that it was stupid of him to say 'ooops'! He should have stuck to his original statement and offered proof.

Sounds like sour grapes by you. You still don't get it. REAL people losing REAL jobs and REAL homes don't want a lecture on economics. Even if he was right, that doesn't matter, what people wanted to hear was "I understand your pain and here's what I'm going to do to help" not "It's all in your head, I have charts and numbers to prove it."

3) YOU ARE absolutely right. He should have fought that pay-off... er um... rescue package all the way - had he done so, he would have caried a huge victory. The conservatives did not vote for him (only 80%) because he is not a conservative. Many conservatives voted for Obama - as they see him as the 2nd coming of Carter - who's fiscal stupidity and TAX INCREASES brought in basically 30 years of conservative rule. The conservatives are counting on Obama to do the same thing.

So some Americans WANT things to go bad in America? Not very patriotic. I mean what would be so bad if things went great? Because a liberal or a democrat did it? Who fucking cares? That's fucking reatrded to WISH for things to go bad so you can get your guy in ther to make things "good" when youc an have "good" things happen NOW. What kind of retard thinks "I hope I lose my job and home and have to live under bridge for 4 years so a republican can be president in 2013" THEN things can get fixed.

My thoughts... the US is still, a Right of Center country and very conservative. McCain lost the election because he tried to act too much like a centrist and too little like a conservative.:

you fail at politics. If he actually been more of a centrist he might have won. Here's a tip, 70% of America is NOT Republican. You will NEVER win an election with 30% of the vote. Get it yet? The GOP needs to tell the Jesus freaks to fuck off and find another party. The fiscally conservative, but socially liberal republicans can get in dependants and conservative democrats to vote for them. That kind of GOP can have success. The jesus freaks need to worry about REAL issues and quit trying to run everyone else's lives. No is forcing them into gay sex or gay marriage. No one is forcing them to have abortions. No one is forcing them to watch porn. if other peopel want thes ething IT IS NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS. If they want their kids to see evolution as a myth and creationism as real and have prayer in school they can put them in private school. Or they just take them to church.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by PXN

Looking back, I think the strategy he was trying to make by picking Palin is to win over Hiliary Clinton supporter, it kinda work at first because Hila's supporter is angry. Her rating once roars but till that stupid interview where she claim she have foreign creditability because she can see Russia from Alaska. After that everything drop like a bomb.

If Palin was a centrist/moderate she would have been successful in holding those Clinton supporters who jumped ship to McCain's ticket immediately after the RNC. This could very well have led to victory. Ditto for comments alienating the 'less real Americans' like Latinos who aren't from small town America, ditto for the youth vote who are less religious than the old guard that Palin appeals to. But because of her views she lost them as soon as she got them. If she was a centrist politically and a moderate socially, the McCain ticket definitely would have had a real chance to win.

[iseeyou]

McCain lost because he did not distance himself enough from Bush. If McCain would have started talking like a libertarian or like Ron Paul, then maybe people would have believed he is different than Bush. McCain moving to the center is a failure because mcCain has no chance to beat obama in the center if Obama moves to the center.

I am truly glad that McCain did not nominate ron paul as vp. I am glad that McCain did not start talking like a free-market libertarian because I am sure it would have been lies. If the USA will turn into socialism, I prefer a genuine liberal democrat such as Obama to do it. A republican like McCain will more likely create socialism for the rich and capitalism for the poor. At least Obama seems to be a fair person. Obama seems to actually care about the welfare of the people, unlike McCain who seems to care more about soldiers and war.

McCain is simply a big failure. He is almost as stupid and stubborn as Bush. Unlike Bush, he unfortunately had an opponent who was difficult to defeat. People like Bush can only be elected during fantastic times ... such as following a Clinton presidency and stock market boom.

McCain in 2000 maybe could have beaten Al Gore. Back in 2000, most people had no clue how bad life would become under Bush. I hope Americans have learned the dangers of electing republicans to the presidency. I think it will be several decades before Americans forget about Bush.

[Fresh]

If you cant make a sane decision on a running mate, you are NOT fit to run a country... especially this one.

[WhiplashDug]

Originally Posted by GatorB

She drew crowds of hardcore neo-cons that were voting McCain anyways. She wasn't reaching independants. and she was turning of liberal republicans. Don't believe me go look at the vote totals.

Crowds are crowds.. I guess your point is Obama grew crowds of NON liberal Democrats? Whats you're point? If they were Neo-Cons.. they still showed up in big numbers. Numbers just as big as Obama. That's a lot of neo cons.

Originally Posted by GatorB

Sounds like sour grapes by you. You still don't get it. REAL people losing REAL jobs and REAL homes don't want a lecture on economics. Even if he was right, that doesn't matter, what people wanted to hear was "I understand your pain and here's what I'm going to do to help" not "It's all in your head, I have charts and numbers to prove it."

So basically, your saying you would rather have your hand held than told the truth? And such is the rest of America... and you say who is stupid? Sour grapes by me? Don't think so. McCain/Palin was not my choice... nothing to be sour about today. And I do actually believe the US Economy is fundamentally sound. That was one of the only things mccain said that I agree with.

Originally Posted by GatorB

So some Americans WANT things to go bad in America? Not very patriotic. I mean what would be so bad if things went great? Because a liberal or a democrat did it? Who fucking cares? That's fucking reatrded to WISH for things to go bad so you can get your guy in ther to make things "good" when youc an have "good" things happen NOW. What kind of retard thinks "I hope I lose my job and home and have to live under bridge for 4 years so a republican can be president in 2013" THEN things can get fixed.

Do you think they WANT things to go bad? Or just know that they will? But, that's politics. Welcome to the history of the world. However, I never suggested anyone wanted to lose their jobs.. its only an observation - that conservatives do not ultimately want to be in the white house during the coming global recession. I am not the first person to say this. That doesn't go to say that they want to loose their jobs.

Originally Posted by GatorB

you fail at politics. If he actually been more of a centrist he might have won. Here's a tip, 70% of America is NOT Republican. You will NEVER win an election with 30% of the vote. Get it yet? The GOP needs to tell the Jesus freaks to fuck off and find another party. The fiscally conservative, but socially liberal republicans can get in dependants and conservative democrats to vote for them. That kind of GOP can have success. The jesus freaks need to worry about REAL issues and quit trying to run everyone else's lives. No is forcing them into gay sex or gay marriage. No one is forcing them to have abortions. No one is forcing them to watch porn. if other peopel want thes ething IT IS NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS. If they want their kids to see evolution as a myth and creationism as real and have prayer in school they can put them in private school. Or they just take them to church.

I fail at politics? I guess that's your poli-sci degree speaking... so I'll let it go at that.

No.. but about 60% of America is to the RIGHT. The last true conservative who ran for president carried about 80% of the national vote. As for Jesus freaks... I'm not sure what that rant has to do with anything other than, Jesus Freaks have a right to vote for their values just as much as you do. If Jesus freaks don't like the porn industry in LA, they should move away from LA. If the porn industry doesn't like the Jesus freaks in Oaklahoma, then it should stay out of Oaklahoma. That's the basis and foundation of democracy. People should be allowed to decide what the local laws are for their community. No one is forcing you to go to church, so if jesus freaks want to spend all there time in church, its none of anyone's business.

As for the private school issue - you are right. And that is what most all of them would do if they could get the school vouchers they have been lobbying for for most of the last decade.