The mainstream network (very long, read it anyway) - GoFuckYourself.com

Libertine · 01-21-2009, 05:54 AM

THE VIRAL NETWORK

This post is about the mainstream network I already mentioned in another thread. If you're not interested, you probably want to stop reading now to avoid wasting your time. If you're only interested in the network itself, skip to the bottom.

THE STATE OF ADULT

The adult industry is changing. Tube sites are no longer an upcoming threat, they are a central part of the industry. Every day, thousands of new surfers discover tubes, torrents and filesharing forums. Many of these surfers will never pay for porn again. Moreover, at this very moment an entire generation of teens is growing up with the knowledge that porn can be gotten for free pretty much anywhere. Those teens are tomorrow's customers - and most of them ain't paying.

At the same time, there's a strong trend of consolidation in the adult industry. With that, barriers to entry for newcomers wanting to start programs are getting higher every day. Competing on quality and quantity with old high-quality sites is virtually impossible for newcomers, and would take enormous investments. Competing on tools and site diversity with the larger programs is extremely hard, and again very costly.

Next to that, many of the larger programs are experimenting with models that rely less on affiliates and more on in-house traffic generation. Especially for smaller webmasters, this is an extremely dangerous development, since they simply won't be able to compete with large tubes that have access to vast amounts of content.

Bluntly put, the future for many webmasters in adult looks bleak, especially for the smaller ones. While many people are still doing very well, it's an undeniable fact that margins across the industry are dropping overall. That's not a new development - those who were here before 2000 will still remember making 25 cents or more per click.

Of course, many people are still doing extremely well, and will continue to do extremely well. There is still plenty of growth potential in many niches which are underrepresented on the tubes, easy access to high quality content will remain a good reason for some surfers to join paysites, and things like dating and cams will remain popular paid services.

THE CASE FOR MAINSTREAM

Considering the above, branching into mainstream is a smart idea for any adult webmaster. Even if you might come out on top in adult, placing all your eggs in one basket is rarely a good idea in an environment which changes as quickly as the internet. If the tubes don't affect your income, the next wave of innovation which could happen at any time might just prove to be a danger to your business model.

Added to that, there are several fundamental problems with focusing on adult instead of mainstream, which I'll explain below.

A core problem with adult is that online, adult is a segregated niche. Using adult sites to feed non-adult projects is often quite hard and inefficient. Not only does traffic generation in mainstream follow different rules (more on that later), the degree of related interest is usually quite small. You can easily use a gossip site to promote your beauty site, which you can in turn use to promote your dating guide site, etc. Creating your own network of blogs which encompasses movies -> games -> computers -> gadgets -> gifts -> relationships is quite possible, for example, whereas in adult, it is far harder to branch out to entirely different industries.

Another problem is availability of advertisers. At first glance, this might seem an odd statement - you can promote paysites, vod sites, porn dvds, adult toys, adult dating, escorts, cams, and several other things. But while this might seem like a lot of choice, in comparison to the possibilities in mainstream, it isn't. Especially since many surfers don't pay for porn, and don't use any of the other things. By contrast, in mainstream, there are far more things to promote, many of which simply cannot be gotten for free (e.g. hardware). So in many cases, even if one market starts sinking, you can just switch around advertising and promote entirely different things.

There are other advantages to mainstream, of course. Businesses are usually easier to sell, advertising is often easier to buy, etc. Also, in many cases, surfers' choices are less exclusive. A surfer who orgasms while watching a video on pornhub probably won't come watching pictures on your old-school tgp right after. On the other hand, a surfer who laughs out loud while reading The Onion may find your mainstream blog right after, and laugh there, too.

CHALLENGES IN MAINSTREAM

It isn't all sunshine on the mainstream side, of course. For starters, content is a lot harder to come by. In adult, content is usually something that is relatively well-defined, and which you can get from obvious sources. By contrast, in most mainstream niches, you are responsible for creating your own content. That means writing articles, gathering interesting links, creating videos, etc. If you're lazy or lack creativity, that's a major problem.

Another problem in mainstream is that you're often competing with far more professional companies. For example, as a political blogger, you compete with virtually every newspaper out there, as well as online magazines like salon.com, and many high-quality semi-professional blogs. While the lower exclusivity I mentioned earlier helps you here, it still means the bar is set fairly high.

And finally, traffic flows and the spread of information are rather different in mainstream and adult. This means you have to adapt to a new system - a challenging task for those who originally come from adult. That's what the next section deals with.

FUNDAMENTALS OF VIRALITY

A note up front, for those who don't know what virality is: it's the spreading of content across the web by users. Examples are sending emails with a link, posting a link on message boards, sending it through IM, posting it on personal blogs, posting it on social bookmarking sites, etc.

It can actually be quantified, with a symbol (say "v") representing the number of other users the average user sends the link to. With v=1, this would mean slow but unlimited growth, v<1 meaning the spread coming to an end (and the site thus needing additional traffic to continue to grow), and v>1 meaning the spread is unlimited and fairly fast. Keep in mind that "average user" does not refer to single users. If out of every 1000 surfers, none send it on but one, who posts it on his blog with exactly 1000 readers, v will be exactly 1.

Of course, unlimited growth only works up until saturation and overlap. Once a particular social network has mostly seen the link in question, the spread will slow since a portion of links sent will be sent to old users, who will not send it on again. So a good viral will have v>1, as well as additional traffic achieved through various promotional methods.

In practice, that means most virals will start off slowly, then start gaining traffic exponentially, until they reach the point of saturation in social groups, at which point growth will slowly drop off.

Now, an important distinction between adult and mainstream is that mainstream, on the whole, relies far more on virality than adult.

Adult traditionally relies strongly on trading links and traffic, while relying relatively little on virality. The reason for that is quite simple: you just can't send your favorite porn gallery on to all your family members, link it on your favorite stamp collector's message board, or post it on your personal blog that your granny avidly follows. This has probably been a blessing for the industry - it has meant that a fair amount of people, especially somewhat older ones, have remained unaware of any free sources of porn they didn't find through search engines or links on other porn sites.

Many mainstream sites, especially blogs and such, rely strongly on virality, and less on link and traffic trades. A good tech blog, for example, might go mostly unnoticed for months, then get found through a search engine by someone who submits it to slashdot, after which other bloggers might respond and link to it, etc. With the new regular readers it gains, chances of it being submitted to digg, slashdot, etc. increase, as well as regular links from other blogs. This often causes a spikier, less predictable growth, with a slower start. Until the blog in question has truly become part of a network of friendly blogs, it will receive very little traffic. If it gets noticed, it might get a sudden avalanche of hits, which will add regular readers if the quality of the rest of the blog is high as well.

Essentially, the problem here is that (quality) mainstream sites rely more on organic ways of gaining traffic, while most adult ones rely more on artificial ways.

[CONT'D]

Libertine · 01-21-2009, 05:55 AM

THE CORE PROBLEM

For commercial webmasters starting up new projects, this creates a major problem. Until they have been assimilated into the network, with regular readers, diggers, bloggers linking to them, etc., they will receive very little traffic. Even if they manage to promote their site well, it may take months before it starts getting any significant traffic (which is needed to generate more traffic). For the enthusiastic blogger who will keep blogging no matter what, that's not a problem. For the businessman who creates websites for profit, it means it may take months before he gets any indication of just how much potential his new idea has.

Worse yet, a project might lose it's full viral potential due to a lack of traffic, since you'll lack the visitors to reach the critical mass needed to gain exposure for any but the most viral content. For example, for every viral piece of content posted here on GFY, there are usually a number of people here who already saw it somewhere else but didn't post it.

THE NETWORK - A POSSIBLE SOLUTION

The traditional solution to the aforementioned problem consists of time, time, and more time. Persistence is key for almost any new mainstream project. Since time is money, this isn't a particularly attractive solution.

Another solution would be to simply simulate the organic viral processes. And that's exactly what I'm proposing.

With a few dozen webmasters participating, there are several things we could do to boost our traffic immediately. For starters, boosting each others best content pieces on things like social bookmarking sites and surfer forums would be fairly simple. While the same can of course be easily achieved through the use of proxies, simply working together on it would be both easier and safer.

Aside from that, and more importantly, by creating a network that tries to get links from the outside while sites within the network mostly link to other sites within the network, all sites profit from all traffic which comes into the network. So as sites within the network grow, other sites within the network grow along with it, all of them more rapidly than would be possible if they acted on their own.

An additional benefit is that the structure would be extremely beneficial for search engine positions, since all sites within the network would mostly link to other sites within the network, while at the same time being linked to from sites outside the network. In effect, this will act like a chained link exchange network of sorts, of the "A -> B -> C -> D -> E-> F -> A" type.

WHAT'S NEEDED

Highest up on the list of what we need are simple, good quality blogs with somewhat original content and regular updates. Original concepts would work best, of course, but copying the concepts of existing sites can work fine, too. If you're entirely uncreative, a good start would be a blog where you simply post anything funny you come across online. Please note that splogs are of literally zero value for this idea. The idea is to gain loyal, durable traffic, not just to spam our way to the top - and inevitable fall down again.

So the very least you should be able to add to the network is a simple hand-written blog which you update once or twice a week, and in which you fairly regularly link to posts and sites that are of interest and are within the network. Creating link trades with sites that are outside the network is, for reasons that should be obvious, completely out of the question.

Next to blogs, another basic ingredient of the network are high concept linkbait sites. Humorous hoaxes like bonsai kitten, shock sites like 2girls1cup, entertainment concepts like a big celeb quiz or a dating test, etc. They require little effort to make and are great for gaining inbound links, and by using them to feed your other sites with traffic and PR, the entire network benefits from them.

If the network gets enough participants, we can also start eliminating our reliance on existing social bookmark sites. At least partly, anyway. A network like this would likely provide the critical mass needed to make at least one new social bookmarking site successful. In exchange, those within the network would get things like preferred submitter status. Similar things could be done for a small number of other sites in heavily competitive areas.

WHAT YOU CAN EXPECT, AND WHAT'S EXPECTED OF YOU

What I'm proposing is not a magic trick, or a crafty way to exploit loopholes in the system. Instead, it's a way to emulate the organic forming of networks online. That means your main goal should be to build sites that would have the potential to grow on their own. If you can't do that, this isn't for you.

Next to that, we will more or less be cheating on things like social bookmarking sites, by voting each other's best content up. While that always results in some extra traffic, your content needs to be of high enough quality to get boosted further up by surfers after it's been kickstarted by the rest of us.

You will also be linked to by others in the network, but again, only if your content is up to par. Otherwise, linking to your content would be detrimental to our own sites. So you increase chances of being linked to on other sites, while in exchange linking to anything good you come across in the network. In practice, we'll probably have a specific area where webmasters can request specific pieces of content of theirs which they consider to be of high enough quality to be linked to, dugg, etc.

It will probably also be beneficial to you to engage in link exchanges and/or rss exchanges with related sites in the network. This is something you'll need to arrange yourself, so again, high quality content helps you here.

The main thing to keep in mind is that the network will help speed up the organic growth of sites considerably, but it won't create growth where there is no potential. The harder and smarter you work, the more you'll be able to benefit from it.

TL;DR

We boost eachother on social networking sites, link to each other's (quality) content, only engage in link exchanges inside the network, and avoid linking too much to sites outside the network.

In essence, we fake existing popularity to create actual popularity.

Nicky · 01-21-2009, 05:56 AM

Ok, starting to read now

Machete_ · 01-21-2009, 05:58 AM

First rule in the path to success:
Don't educate the competition - period

Second rule in the path to success:
Dont look for partners to your next big project on a forum called "goFuckYourself"

Libertine · 01-21-2009, 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ebus_dk

First rule in the path to success:
Don't educate the competition - period

Second rule in the path to success:
Dont look for partners to your next big project on a forum called "goFuckYourself"

I'm not looking for partners, but for collaborators. And quite a few are needed. So look at it as an advertorial, not education

BVF · 01-21-2009, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Libertine

THE CORE PROBLEM

For commercial webmasters starting up new projects, this creates a major problem. Until they have been assimilated into the network, with regular readers, diggers, bloggers linking to them, etc., they will receive very little traffic. Even if they manage to promote their site well, it may take months before it starts getting any significant traffic (which is needed to generate more traffic). For the enthusiastic blogger who will keep blogging no matter what, that's not a problem. For the businessman who creates websites for profit, it means it may take months before he gets any indication of just how much potential his new idea has.

Worse yet, a project might lose it's full viral potential due to a lack of traffic, since you'll lack the visitors to reach the critical mass needed to gain exposure for any but the most viral content. For example, for every viral piece of content posted here on GFY, there are usually a number of people here who already saw it somewhere else but didn't post it.

THE NETWORK - A POSSIBLE SOLUTION

The traditional solution to the aforementioned problem consists of time, time, and more time. Persistence is key for almost any new mainstream project. Since time is money, this isn't a particularly attractive solution.

Another solution would be to simply simulate the organic viral processes. And that's exactly what I'm proposing.

With a few dozen webmasters participating, there are several things we could do to boost our traffic immediately. For starters, boosting each others best content pieces on things like social bookmarking sites and surfer forums would be fairly simple. While the same can of course be easily achieved through the use of proxies, simply working together on it would be both easier and safer.

Aside from that, and more importantly, by creating a network that tries to get links from the outside while sites within the network mostly link to other sites within the network, all sites profit from all traffic which comes into the network. So as sites within the network grow, other sites within the network grow along with it, all of them more rapidly than would be possible if they acted on their own.

An additional benefit is that the structure would be extremely beneficial for search engine positions, since all sites within the network would mostly link to other sites within the network, while at the same time being linked to from sites outside the network. In effect, this will act like a chained link exchange network of sorts, of the "A -> B -> C -> D -> E-> F -> A" type.

WHAT'S NEEDED

Highest up on the list of what we need are simple, good quality blogs with somewhat original content and regular updates. Original concepts would work best, of course, but copying the concepts of existing sites can work fine, too. If you're entirely uncreative, a good start would be a blog where you simply post anything funny you come across online. Please note that splogs are of literally zero value for this idea. The idea is to gain loyal, durable traffic, not just to spam our way to the top - and inevitable fall down again.

So the very least you should be able to add to the network is a simple hand-written blog which you update once or twice a week, and in which you fairly regularly link to posts and sites that are of interest and are within the network. Creating link trades with sites that are outside the network is, for reasons that should be obvious, completely out of the question.

Next to blogs, another basic ingredient of the network are high concept linkbait sites. Humorous hoaxes like bonsai kitten, shock sites like 2girls1cup, entertainment concepts like a big celeb quiz or a dating test, etc. They require little effort to make and are great for gaining inbound links, and by using them to feed your other sites with traffic and PR, the entire network benefits from them.

If the network gets enough participants, we can also start eliminating our reliance on existing social bookmark sites. At least partly, anyway. A network like this would likely provide the critical mass needed to make at least one new social bookmarking site successful. In exchange, those within the network would get things like preferred submitter status. Similar things could be done for a small number of other sites in heavily competitive areas.

WHAT YOU CAN EXPECT, AND WHAT'S EXPECTED OF YOU

What I'm proposing is not a magic trick, or a crafty way to exploit loopholes in the system. Instead, it's a way to emulate the organic forming of networks online. That means your main goal should be to build sites that would have the potential to grow on their own. If you can't do that, this isn't for you.

Next to that, we will more or less be cheating on things like social bookmarking sites, by voting each other's best content up. While that always results in some extra traffic, your content needs to be of high enough quality to get boosted further up by surfers after it's been kickstarted by the rest of us.

You will also be linked to by others in the network, but again, only if your content is up to par. Otherwise, linking to your content would be detrimental to our own sites. So you increase chances of being linked to on other sites, while in exchange linking to anything good you come across in the network. In practice, we'll probably have a specific area where webmasters can request specific pieces of content of theirs which they consider to be of high enough quality to be linked to, dugg, etc.

It will probably also be beneficial to you to engage in link exchanges and/or rss exchanges with related sites in the network. This is something you'll need to arrange yourself, so again, high quality content helps you here.

The main thing to keep in mind is that the network will help speed up the organic growth of sites considerably, but it won't create growth where there is no potential. The harder and smarter you work, the more you'll be able to benefit from it.

TL;DR

We boost eachother on social networking sites, link to each other's (quality) content, only engage in link exchanges inside the network, and avoid linking too much to sites outside the network.

In essence, we fake existing popularity to create actual popularity.

Libertine · 01-21-2009, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BVF

...

Nigga doesn't know what TL;DR means

Nicky · 01-21-2009, 06:11 AM

Ok read it all. Nice put together. I can see the concept and am in with atleast a couple of blog's for starters.

Libertine · 01-21-2009, 06:15 AM

I'll set up something later today. Those who want to join in, add me on ICQ (I'm busy atm, so I'll just send you a message when I have a site up for this).

85992840

HorseShit · 01-21-2009, 06:16 AM

You need a central way to manage this and preferably a group chat head weekly or more often so that everyone is on the same page and doings things that will be beneficial for everyone

Reak AGV · 01-21-2009, 06:17 AM

Will read it tonight, and give a good response.

polish_aristocrat · 01-21-2009, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Libertine

Nigga doesn't know what TL;DR means

just had to look it up:

Literally, "Too long; didn't read"

Said whenever a nerd makes a post that is too long to bother reading.

pornguy · 01-21-2009, 06:27 AM

I might have a blog already that will fit, and another on the way.

Libertine · 01-21-2009, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by polish_aristocrat

just had to look it up:

Literally, "Too long; didn't read"

Said whenever a nerd makes a post that is too long to bother reading.

Scroll up, and it should be obvious that I'm not exactly hiding the fact that I'm a nerd

The Heron · 01-21-2009, 06:31 AM

I would be very interested in this project.

polle54 · 01-21-2009, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdavis

You need a central way to manage this and preferably a group chat head weekly or more often so that everyone is on the same page and doings things that will be beneficial for everyone

Exactly, you need to make a head central where all sites are regged and where everyone in it get's a password.

Each siteowner can then post a number of links which the other participents needs to promote. Each participent then needs to promote at least 5 of the other participents links during the day.

That might work

selena · 01-21-2009, 06:32 AM

I am already spread pretty thin, but I'd like to at least be on your contact list so that I can figure out if I have time to devote to it. I do some mainstream stuff, but I don't know that it would fit. I have to think on how I could make it do so, or maybe get input from others.

polish_aristocrat · 01-21-2009, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Libertine

Scroll up, and it should be obvious that I'm not exactly hiding the fact that I'm a nerd

you're a little mystery to me

acted in porn, studied philosophy, agreed to marry a girl on an instant messanger and being a nerd wanting to grow a huge mainstream network with fellow GFY'ers

on a serious note, some very good points, especially on adult

good luck with this project

Libertine · 01-21-2009, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by polish_aristocrat

you're a little mystery to me

acted in porn, studied philosophy, agreed to marry a girl on an instant messanger and being a nerd wanting to grow a huge mainstream network with fellow GFY'ers

on a serious note, some very good points, especially on adult

good luck with this project

I'm a slightly insane geek. That's not that mysterious, is it?

selena · 01-21-2009, 08:17 AM

I sent you a msg, and was declined, but if you are keeping a list, and want to add me to it, feel free.

If not, best of luck!

Fletch XXX · 01-21-2009, 08:17 AM

you couldve built a network of sites in the time it took you to write that ;)

Magnus · 01-21-2009, 08:35 AM

Hmmm mainstream blogs and viral video.. was'nt that like ummmmmmmmmmmmmm so last 2 years ago? As soon as the media coins a phrase it's past it's peak. Not saying you can't make money in this space but honestly hit a Ad tech show and see what the big boys are working on, it wont be blogs.

selena · 01-21-2009, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by selena

I sent you a msg, and was declined, but if you are keeping a list, and want to add me to it, feel free.

If not, best of luck!

Never mind, we are hooked up now.

Thanks again!

~puts nose back to grindstone~

Nicky · 01-21-2009, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magnus

hit a Ad tech show and see what the big boys are working on, it wont be blogs.

Blog's wont get outdated, atleast not the quality handwritten ones.

Libertine · 01-21-2009, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magnus

Hmmm mainstream blogs and viral video.. was'nt that like ummmmmmmmmmmmmm so last 2 years ago? As soon as the media coins a phrase it's past it's peak. Not saying you can't make money in this space but honestly hit a Ad tech show and see what the big boys are working on, it wont be blogs.

I'm not talking about viral video. I'm talking about viral everything. Virtually everything that gets big online gets big because people send it on to others. Just look at the front page of GFY at any given time.

As for mainstream blogs, they might not be particularly new, but they're a proven technology with low barriers to entry and lots of scalability, and they provide a decent framework to build on.

I don't care about the bleeding edge of technology. I care about solid profitability. If your goal is to find the next big thing, and launch it from nothing, I wish you good luck. Also, this particular project is not suitable for you.

This project is aimed at people who are interested in using proven technology and forms of social interaction to their advantage, on a larger scale than would be possible to achieve by yourself.

(as an aside: virality is a fundamental characteristic of mainstream traffic building, and thus is unavoidable, but it's not the core characteristic of this project)

Angry Jew Cat - Banned for Life · 01-21-2009, 09:11 AM

viral traffic makes me horny. there are some awesome options out the right now for sending your projects viral. provide unique quality content, and make it nice and easy for the surfer to tell everyone they know with a few clicks and you're golden.

Snake Doctor · 01-21-2009, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Libertine

Nigga doesn't know what TL;DR means

I figured out TL;DR, but do you know what ds;rd means?

The context

Quote:

From my perspective, the Cubs being a winning team was important to the seller, the Tribune company, even after they sold. When the Cubs won, the newspaper sold more copies, more people watched the games on WGN and listened on the radio, which in turn meant those mediums could sell more advertising at a higher rate. On the flipside, if the new owner was purely about making money at the expense of a winning team, it could cause the value of the seller?s other assets to decline faster than they otherwise would. Not that this would compensate for significant delta in ds;rd price, but it could break ties.

http://blogmaverick.com/2009/01/06/the-cubs/

I googled my ass off and couldn't find an answer.

I'll hit you up later about this project, I think I have some ideas that might be a good fit.

kmanrox · 01-21-2009, 09:41 AM

i like this.. im amazed someone's using their brain here on GFY for once. kudos!

eroticsexxx · 01-21-2009, 10:34 AM

hmmm....

tranza · 01-21-2009, 11:07 AM

You wrote everything?

Libertine · 01-21-2009, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tranza

You wrote everything?

Of course. Why?

01-21-2009, 12:20 PM

bump for a great idea!

Libertine · 01-21-2009, 02:06 PM

And back up to the top this thread goes.

Libertine · 01-21-2009, 03:32 PM

Alright, I have a little site set up. Send me an ICQ message for the link. #85992840

hova · 01-21-2009, 03:41 PM

moved on to mainstream years ago and currently making more than I made in adult before.

depending on a few factors I'm absolutely interested to join.

Libertine · 01-21-2009, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hova

moved on to mainstream years ago and currently making more than I made in adult before.

depending on a few factors I'm absolutely interested to join.

Hit me up on ICQ, and we can talk.

hova · 01-21-2009, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Libertine

Hit me up on ICQ, and we can talk.

will hit you up tomorrow, too busy atm

qxm · 01-21-2009, 04:03 PM

so mon.... what regulation will you enforce in such network?... cause the whole concept sounds OK but if someone drops the ball .. fucks shit up... this small galaxy of sites might get ass fucked if someone decides to do something "original" with the sites they use in the network...for instance using dupe content because their asses are lazy.. or linking to banned/penalized sites.. getting links from fucked up link farms and attack sites and such....??

Interesting concept...... nonetheless...

Libertine · 01-21-2009, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qxm

so mon.... what regulation will you enforce in such network?... cause the whole concept sounds OK but if someone drops the ball .. fucks shit up... this small galaxy of sites might get ass fucked if someone decides to do something "original" with the sites they use in the network...for instance using dupe content because their asses are lazy.. or linking to banned/penalized sites.. getting links from fucked up link farms and attack sites and such....??

Interesting concept...... nonetheless...

Stop producing quality content, and people will stop digging you, linking to you, etc.

In terms of numbers, it will be a relatively small network, and members will gain most by simply working together with others. Anyone who suddenly replaces sites with link farms and such will get kicked out immediately, and will lose almost all of his links in a matter of days.

Decide to fuck shit up, and you simply get dropped from the network.

ez12 · 01-21-2009, 04:14 PM

I think 'Longtail'. Focus on a good niche and build from there. It's all about the unique content..

Nicky · 01-21-2009, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Libertine

Alright, I have a little site set up. Send me an ICQ message for the link. #85992840

Could you email me link, my icq is acting up.

Libertine · 01-21-2009, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicky

Could you email me link, my icq is acting up.

Done....

Libertine · 01-21-2009, 07:21 PM

And a final bump before I go to bed.

fujiko · 01-21-2009, 07:25 PM

very nice post.. i have a mainstream business that takes too much time; but it isnt a blog.
anyways, have fun with ur project.

Libertine · 01-22-2009, 04:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fujiko

very nice post.. i have a mainstream business that takes too much time; but it isnt a blog.
anyways, have fun with ur project.

Heh, doesn't any project take too much time?

Libertine · 01-23-2009, 02:40 PM

****bump

fuzebox · 01-23-2009, 03:21 PM

It's amazing how many GFYer's can't read more than a paragraph, or are flabbergasted that someone can write that much.

BradM · 01-23-2009, 03:34 PM

Libertine,
I am always interested in working with those who are motivated. Let me know what you have in mind whenever you have time: 280389272

polish_aristocrat · 01-27-2009, 10:22 AM

bump for Libertine...

JamesK · 01-27-2009, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fuzebox

It's amazing how many GFYer's can't read more than a paragraph, or are flabbergasted that someone can write that much.

01-21-2009, 05:54 AM	#1
Libertine sex dwarf Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 17,860	The mainstream network (very long, read it anyway) THE VIRAL NETWORK This post is about the mainstream network I already mentioned in another thread. If you're not interested, you probably want to stop reading now to avoid wasting your time. If you're only interested in the network itself, skip to the bottom. THE STATE OF ADULT The adult industry is changing. Tube sites are no longer an upcoming threat, they are a central part of the industry. Every day, thousands of new surfers discover tubes, torrents and filesharing forums. Many of these surfers will never pay for porn again. Moreover, at this very moment an entire generation of teens is growing up with the knowledge that porn can be gotten for free pretty much anywhere. Those teens are tomorrow's customers - and most of them ain't paying. At the same time, there's a strong trend of consolidation in the adult industry. With that, barriers to entry for newcomers wanting to start programs are getting higher every day. Competing on quality and quantity with old high-quality sites is virtually impossible for newcomers, and would take enormous investments. Competing on tools and site diversity with the larger programs is extremely hard, and again very costly. Next to that, many of the larger programs are experimenting with models that rely less on affiliates and more on in-house traffic generation. Especially for smaller webmasters, this is an extremely dangerous development, since they simply won't be able to compete with large tubes that have access to vast amounts of content. Bluntly put, the future for many webmasters in adult looks bleak, especially for the smaller ones. While many people are still doing very well, it's an undeniable fact that margins across the industry are dropping overall. That's not a new development - those who were here before 2000 will still remember making 25 cents or more per click. Of course, many people are still doing extremely well, and will continue to do extremely well. There is still plenty of growth potential in many niches which are underrepresented on the tubes, easy access to high quality content will remain a good reason for some surfers to join paysites, and things like dating and cams will remain popular paid services. THE CASE FOR MAINSTREAM Considering the above, branching into mainstream is a smart idea for any adult webmaster. Even if you might come out on top in adult, placing all your eggs in one basket is rarely a good idea in an environment which changes as quickly as the internet. If the tubes don't affect your income, the next wave of innovation which could happen at any time might just prove to be a danger to your business model. Added to that, there are several fundamental problems with focusing on adult instead of mainstream, which I'll explain below. A core problem with adult is that online, adult is a segregated niche. Using adult sites to feed non-adult projects is often quite hard and inefficient. Not only does traffic generation in mainstream follow different rules (more on that later), the degree of related interest is usually quite small. You can easily use a gossip site to promote your beauty site, which you can in turn use to promote your dating guide site, etc. Creating your own network of blogs which encompasses movies -> games -> computers -> gadgets -> gifts -> relationships is quite possible, for example, whereas in adult, it is far harder to branch out to entirely different industries. Another problem is availability of advertisers. At first glance, this might seem an odd statement - you can promote paysites, vod sites, porn dvds, adult toys, adult dating, escorts, cams, and several other things. But while this might seem like a lot of choice, in comparison to the possibilities in mainstream, it isn't. Especially since many surfers don't pay for porn, and don't use any of the other things. By contrast, in mainstream, there are far more things to promote, many of which simply cannot be gotten for free (e.g. hardware). So in many cases, even if one market starts sinking, you can just switch around advertising and promote entirely different things. There are other advantages to mainstream, of course. Businesses are usually easier to sell, advertising is often easier to buy, etc. Also, in many cases, surfers' choices are less exclusive. A surfer who orgasms while watching a video on pornhub probably won't come watching pictures on your old-school tgp right after. On the other hand, a surfer who laughs out loud while reading The Onion may find your mainstream blog right after, and laugh there, too. CHALLENGES IN MAINSTREAM It isn't all sunshine on the mainstream side, of course. For starters, content is a lot harder to come by. In adult, content is usually something that is relatively well-defined, and which you can get from obvious sources. By contrast, in most mainstream niches, you are responsible for creating your own content. That means writing articles, gathering interesting links, creating videos, etc. If you're lazy or lack creativity, that's a major problem. Another problem in mainstream is that you're often competing with far more professional companies. For example, as a political blogger, you compete with virtually every newspaper out there, as well as online magazines like salon.com, and many high-quality semi-professional blogs. While the lower exclusivity I mentioned earlier helps you here, it still means the bar is set fairly high. And finally, traffic flows and the spread of information are rather different in mainstream and adult. This means you have to adapt to a new system - a challenging task for those who originally come from adult. That's what the next section deals with. FUNDAMENTALS OF VIRALITY A note up front, for those who don't know what virality is: it's the spreading of content across the web by users. Examples are sending emails with a link, posting a link on message boards, sending it through IM, posting it on personal blogs, posting it on social bookmarking sites, etc. It can actually be quantified, with a symbol (say "v") representing the number of other users the average user sends the link to. With v=1, this would mean slow but unlimited growth, v<1 meaning the spread coming to an end (and the site thus needing additional traffic to continue to grow), and v>1 meaning the spread is unlimited and fairly fast. Keep in mind that "average user" does not refer to single users. If out of every 1000 surfers, none send it on but one, who posts it on his blog with exactly 1000 readers, v will be exactly 1. Of course, unlimited growth only works up until saturation and overlap. Once a particular social network has mostly seen the link in question, the spread will slow since a portion of links sent will be sent to old users, who will not send it on again. So a good viral will have v>1, as well as additional traffic achieved through various promotional methods. In practice, that means most virals will start off slowly, then start gaining traffic exponentially, until they reach the point of saturation in social groups, at which point growth will slowly drop off. Now, an important distinction between adult and mainstream is that mainstream, on the whole, relies far more on virality than adult. Adult traditionally relies strongly on trading links and traffic, while relying relatively little on virality. The reason for that is quite simple: you just can't send your favorite porn gallery on to all your family members, link it on your favorite stamp collector's message board, or post it on your personal blog that your granny avidly follows. This has probably been a blessing for the industry - it has meant that a fair amount of people, especially somewhat older ones, have remained unaware of any free sources of porn they didn't find through search engines or links on other porn sites. Many mainstream sites, especially blogs and such, rely strongly on virality, and less on link and traffic trades. A good tech blog, for example, might go mostly unnoticed for months, then get found through a search engine by someone who submits it to slashdot, after which other bloggers might respond and link to it, etc. With the new regular readers it gains, chances of it being submitted to digg, slashdot, etc. increase, as well as regular links from other blogs. This often causes a spikier, less predictable growth, with a slower start. Until the blog in question has truly become part of a network of friendly blogs, it will receive very little traffic. If it gets noticed, it might get a sudden avalanche of hits, which will add regular readers if the quality of the rest of the blog is high as well. Essentially, the problem here is that (quality) mainstream sites rely more on organic ways of gaining traffic, while most adult ones rely more on artificial ways. [CONT'D] __________________ /(bb\|[^b]{2})/

01-21-2009, 05:55 AM	#2
Libertine sex dwarf Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 17,860	THE CORE PROBLEM For commercial webmasters starting up new projects, this creates a major problem. Until they have been assimilated into the network, with regular readers, diggers, bloggers linking to them, etc., they will receive very little traffic. Even if they manage to promote their site well, it may take months before it starts getting any significant traffic (which is needed to generate more traffic). For the enthusiastic blogger who will keep blogging no matter what, that's not a problem. For the businessman who creates websites for profit, it means it may take months before he gets any indication of just how much potential his new idea has. Worse yet, a project might lose it's full viral potential due to a lack of traffic, since you'll lack the visitors to reach the critical mass needed to gain exposure for any but the most viral content. For example, for every viral piece of content posted here on GFY, there are usually a number of people here who already saw it somewhere else but didn't post it. THE NETWORK - A POSSIBLE SOLUTION The traditional solution to the aforementioned problem consists of time, time, and more time. Persistence is key for almost any new mainstream project. Since time is money, this isn't a particularly attractive solution. Another solution would be to simply simulate the organic viral processes. And that's exactly what I'm proposing. With a few dozen webmasters participating, there are several things we could do to boost our traffic immediately. For starters, boosting each others best content pieces on things like social bookmarking sites and surfer forums would be fairly simple. While the same can of course be easily achieved through the use of proxies, simply working together on it would be both easier and safer. Aside from that, and more importantly, by creating a network that tries to get links from the outside while sites within the network mostly link to other sites within the network, all sites profit from all traffic which comes into the network. So as sites within the network grow, other sites within the network grow along with it, all of them more rapidly than would be possible if they acted on their own. An additional benefit is that the structure would be extremely beneficial for search engine positions, since all sites within the network would mostly link to other sites within the network, while at the same time being linked to from sites outside the network. In effect, this will act like a chained link exchange network of sorts, of the "A -> B -> C -> D -> E-> F -> A" type. WHAT'S NEEDED Highest up on the list of what we need are simple, good quality blogs with somewhat original content and regular updates. Original concepts would work best, of course, but copying the concepts of existing sites can work fine, too. If you're entirely uncreative, a good start would be a blog where you simply post anything funny you come across online. Please note that splogs are of literally zero value for this idea. The idea is to gain loyal, durable traffic, not just to spam our way to the top - and inevitable fall down again. So the very least you should be able to add to the network is a simple hand-written blog which you update once or twice a week, and in which you fairly regularly link to posts and sites that are of interest and are within the network. Creating link trades with sites that are outside the network is, for reasons that should be obvious, completely out of the question. Next to blogs, another basic ingredient of the network are high concept linkbait sites. Humorous hoaxes like bonsai kitten, shock sites like 2girls1cup, entertainment concepts like a big celeb quiz or a dating test, etc. They require little effort to make and are great for gaining inbound links, and by using them to feed your other sites with traffic and PR, the entire network benefits from them. If the network gets enough participants, we can also start eliminating our reliance on existing social bookmark sites. At least partly, anyway. A network like this would likely provide the critical mass needed to make at least one new social bookmarking site successful. In exchange, those within the network would get things like preferred submitter status. Similar things could be done for a small number of other sites in heavily competitive areas. WHAT YOU CAN EXPECT, AND WHAT'S EXPECTED OF YOU What I'm proposing is not a magic trick, or a crafty way to exploit loopholes in the system. Instead, it's a way to emulate the organic forming of networks online. That means your main goal should be to build sites that would have the potential to grow on their own. If you can't do that, this isn't for you. Next to that, we will more or less be cheating on things like social bookmarking sites, by voting each other's best content up. While that always results in some extra traffic, your content needs to be of high enough quality to get boosted further up by surfers after it's been kickstarted by the rest of us. You will also be linked to by others in the network, but again, only if your content is up to par. Otherwise, linking to your content would be detrimental to our own sites. So you increase chances of being linked to on other sites, while in exchange linking to anything good you come across in the network. In practice, we'll probably have a specific area where webmasters can request specific pieces of content of theirs which they consider to be of high enough quality to be linked to, dugg, etc. It will probably also be beneficial to you to engage in link exchanges and/or rss exchanges with related sites in the network. This is something you'll need to arrange yourself, so again, high quality content helps you here. The main thing to keep in mind is that the network will help speed up the organic growth of sites considerably, but it won't create growth where there is no potential. The harder and smarter you work, the more you'll be able to benefit from it. TL;DR We boost eachother on social networking sites, link to each other's (quality) content, only engage in link exchanges inside the network, and avoid linking too much to sites outside the network. In essence, we fake existing popularity to create actual popularity. __________________ /(bb\|[^b]{2})/

01-21-2009, 05:56 AM	#3
Nicky Judge Jury and Executioner Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Sweden Posts: 30,069	Ok, starting to read now __________________ gfynicky @ gmail.com

01-21-2009, 06:15 AM	#9
Libertine sex dwarf Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 17,860	I'll set up something later today. Those who want to join in, add me on ICQ (I'm busy atm, so I'll just send you a message when I have a site up for this). 85992840 __________________ /(bb\|[^b]{2})/

01-21-2009, 06:17 AM	#11
Reak AGV Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Unknown Posts: 4,283	Will read it tonight, and give a good response. __________________ Need Mainstream Content and SEO? SEO * Website Copy * Blogs Blogging - PR Work - Forum Marketing - Social Marketing - Link building - Articles 100% Guaranteed Content!

01-21-2009, 05:58 AM	#4
Machete_ WINNING! Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 14,579	First rule in the path to success: Don't educate the competition - period Second rule in the path to success: Dont look for partners to your next big project on a forum called "goFuckYourself"

01-21-2009, 06:11 AM	#8
Nicky Judge Jury and Executioner Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Sweden Posts: 30,069	Ok read it all. Nice put together. I can see the concept and am in with atleast a couple of blog's for starters. __________________ gfynicky @ gmail.com

01-21-2009, 06:16 AM	#10
HorseShit Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 17,513	You need a central way to manage this and preferably a group chat head weekly or more often so that everyone is on the same page and doings things that will be beneficial for everyone

01-21-2009, 06:27 AM	#13
pornguy Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Homeless Posts: 62,912	I might have a blog already that will fit, and another on the way. __________________ PornGuy skype me pornguy_epic AmateurDough The Hottes Shemales online! TChicks.com \| Angeles Cid \| Mariana Cordoba \| MAILERS WELCOME!

01-21-2009, 06:31 AM	#15
The Heron Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Michigan Posts: 4,487	I would be very interested in this project.

01-21-2009, 06:32 AM	#17
selena Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: On The Edge Posts: 7,992	I am already spread pretty thin, but I'd like to at least be on your contact list so that I can figure out if I have time to devote to it. I do some mainstream stuff, but I don't know that it would fit. I have to think on how I could make it do so, or maybe get input from others. __________________ ~ Doer of Things at MetArtMoney Where Flawless Beauty Meets Art ~The MetArt Network ~ selena.delgado9

01-21-2009, 08:17 AM	#20
selena Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: On The Edge Posts: 7,992	I sent you a msg, and was declined, but if you are keeping a list, and want to add me to it, feel free. If not, best of luck! __________________ ~ Doer of Things at MetArtMoney Where Flawless Beauty Meets Art ~The MetArt Network ~ selena.delgado9

01-21-2009, 08:17 AM	#21
Fletch XXX GFY HALL OF FAME DAMMIT!!! Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: that 504 Posts: 60,840	you couldve built a network of sites in the time it took you to write that ;) __________________ Want an Android App for your tube, membership, or free site? Need banners or promo material? Hit us up (ICQ Fletch: 148841377) or email me fletchxxx at gmail.com - recent work - About me

01-21-2009, 08:35 AM	#22
Magnus Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Ontariariooooo Posts: 1,211	Hmmm mainstream blogs and viral video.. was'nt that like ummmmmmmmmmmmmm so last 2 years ago? As soon as the media coins a phrase it's past it's peak. Not saying you can't make money in this space but honestly hit a Ad tech show and see what the big boys are working on, it wont be blogs. __________________ Magnus

01-21-2009, 09:11 AM	#26
Angry Jew Cat - Banned for Life (felis madjewicus) Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: In Mom & Dad's Basement Posts: 20,368	viral traffic makes me horny. there are some awesome options out the right now for sending your projects viral. provide unique quality content, and make it nice and easy for the surfer to tell everyone they know with a few clicks and you're golden.

01-21-2009, 09:41 AM	#28
kmanrox aka K-Man Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: The Gutter Posts: 29,282	i like this.. im amazed someone's using their brain here on GFY for once. kudos! __________________ Crypto HODLr Crypto mining Angel investor

01-21-2009, 10:34 AM	#29
eroticsexxx Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nassau, Bahamas Posts: 3,133	hmmm.... __________________

01-21-2009, 11:07 AM	#30
tranza ICQ: 197-556-237 Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: BRASIL !!! Posts: 57,559	You wrote everything? __________________ I'm just a newbie.

01-21-2009, 12:20 PM	#32
Gasper Guest Posts: n/a	bump for a great idea!

01-21-2009, 02:06 PM	#33
Libertine sex dwarf Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 17,860	And back up to the top this thread goes. __________________ /(bb\|[^b]{2})/

01-21-2009, 03:32 PM	#34
Libertine sex dwarf Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 17,860	Alright, I have a little site set up. Send me an ICQ message for the link. #85992840 __________________ /(bb\|[^b]{2})/

01-21-2009, 03:41 PM	#35
hova Traffillionaire Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: ICQ:209371571 Posts: 22,430	moved on to mainstream years ago and currently making more than I made in adult before. depending on a few factors I'm absolutely interested to join.

01-21-2009, 04:03 PM	#38
qxm Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: NoHo Posts: 5,970	so mon.... what regulation will you enforce in such network?... cause the whole concept sounds OK but if someone drops the ball .. fucks shit up... this small galaxy of sites might get ass fucked if someone decides to do something "original" with the sites they use in the network...for instance using dupe content because their asses are lazy.. or linking to banned/penalized sites.. getting links from fucked up link farms and attack sites and such....?? Interesting concept...... nonetheless... __________________ ICQ: 266990876

01-21-2009, 04:14 PM	#40
ez12 Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: 388 753 309 Posts: 2,438	I think 'Longtail'. Focus on a good niche and build from there. It's all about the unique content.. __________________ Main sites: Duclerck.com & Diderote.com My Hosting: AmeriNOC My Sponsors: NewNudeCash, Silvercash, Sapphic Cash, BCash4you Email: webmaster @ duclerck.com

01-21-2009, 07:21 PM	#43
Libertine sex dwarf Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 17,860	And a final bump before I go to bed. __________________ /(bb\|[^b]{2})/

01-21-2009, 07:25 PM	#44
fujiko Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 566	very nice post.. i have a mainstream business that takes too much time; but it isnt a blog. anyways, have fun with ur project. __________________ .

01-23-2009, 02:40 PM	#46
Libertine sex dwarf Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 17,860	****bump __________________ /(bb\|[^b]{2})/

01-23-2009, 03:21 PM	#47
fuzebox making it rain Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: seattle Posts: 22,013	It's amazing how many GFYer's can't read more than a paragraph, or are flabbergasted that someone can write that much.

01-23-2009, 03:34 PM	#48
BradM Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: 1123,6536,5231 Posts: 3,397	Libertine, I am always interested in working with those who are motivated. Let me know what you have in mind whenever you have time: 280389272

01-27-2009, 10:22 AM	#49
polish_aristocrat Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 40,377	bump for Libertine... __________________ I don't use ICQ anymore.