REAL ESTATE is ripe for a burst !

[Xenophage]

Man oh man the frenzy is at its peak read this shit and tell me its not.


http://www.fortune.com/fortune/inves...061371,00.html


And the appreciation! Surely you?ve heard, because real estate profits are the kind of thing that no one?your neighbor, your boss, yourself?can seem to shut up about. Since 2000 the median sales price of a single-family home has jumped 77% in New York City, 92% in Miami, and 105% in San Diego. "Nationally, all levels of real estate activity are at all-time highs," says economist Mark Zandi


Speculators are creatures who emerge every decade or so to exploit the hot business cycle of the moment?those whose aim is to ride the wave to its highest point and then, with miraculous skill and timing, get out before it crashes on all the greater fools beneath. (They are also, like fishermen, more than willing to exaggerate the size of their catch.) Lately their numbers have been multiplying with every cocktail-party tale of a dentist, florist, or shrink buying "threesies" and "foursies" (three or four properties at a time, in speculatorese) and making a killing.



Many of them acknowledge that they are part of a bubble and that a correction is coming. But they believe it won?t hit their market?or that if it does, they?ll be able to get out in time. Despite all the warnings and a few bleats of self-doubt, most of these people are continuing to behave with all the stark raving urgency of panicked shoppers at an after-Christmas clearance sale.


That amount, the couple say, represents their entire net worth. But that fact doesn?t seem to trouble them much. They plan to sell properties when they need the cash and hold on to the others to fund their retirement. "It?s a risk," concedes Debbie, "but I really feel like it?s a lot less risky than the stock market. Even if it does crash, it?s not like it?s worth nothing?like a stock, where the value can go all the way to zero. I guess it?s much more exciting than it is scary."



Is he worried about talk of a bubble? "Well, I can foresee what will happen," he says. "I know in the near future a lot of people who have interest-only mortgages will get in trouble."

He?s probably right. Interest-only mortgages?which don?t pay down principal, so borrowers make lower payments than with conventional mortgages and thus can afford more expensive houses?used to be considered risky. In 2001 just 1.6% of all new U.S. mortgages were interest-only. But last year a stunning 31% were. If there?s any sign that a downturn could get loads of folks in trouble, that?s it.


In the past year the number of Phoenix homebuyers who identified themselves as investors has more than doubled, to 2,703. They bought 18% of all homes sold in the Phoenix area in 2004, according to Infocom, a local real estate research company. Phoenix builders, fearing that the speculative frenzy would damage their primary business, soon announced the same kind of antispeculation clauses that had proved largely successful in both California and Las Vegas.

By the time those measures were in place in Phoenix last fall, however, the swarm of investors descending on the city was almost too much to stop. At one of the construction sites of big builder Toll Brothers, a van full of investors from Las Vegas pulled up to a sales trailer shortly after the antispeculation measures had gone into effect. According to a Toll Brothers spokesperson, the saleswoman on call was so flustered by the group?s displeasure at being denied an opportunity to invest in such a scalding market that she had to radio headquarters for backup. "They all wanted to buy multiple properties, and they wouldn?t take no for an answer," says the spokesperson. "They were trying to climb in and give her their deposits. She had to lock herself in the trailer."


The houses aren?t exactly throwing off cash: Tahmassebian estimates that he loses $3,500 a month on them, since he doesn?t bother to rent out all 15. "If I?m negative on a few, that?s okay," he says. "I?m in it for the appreciation." In seven months, he estimates, the 15 properties have appreciated from $2 million to $3 million. He?s planning to sell in the next two to three years, but if the market does crash?which he doesn?t expect?it wouldn?t be a disaster, he says: "You just hold on till it comes right back up."

There are a lot of people getting in at the top of the market, and you could hear some horror stories if it doesn?t last."

"I read all the stories about real estate and condos in Miami," he says. "You know, saying, 'Everyone is a speculator,' and 'It's a herd mentality.' I see them all the time now, and I wonder: Am I one of those people?"



Hhahahahah the market will just come back up... tell that to the fucking NASDAQ hahahahahah

The Shit is gonna hit the fan so fucking hard !

[NaughtyRob]

Yeah, and I hope it bursts soon in Vegas, I want to buy in about 8 months.

[KMR Stitch]

Lars you are taking out 1 key factor.


The Baby boomers are coming out of retirement AGE 60-65 ish A lot of them will be moving to warmer southern areas. Florida/Texas/Cali

The market might bust in a few areas but still be strong in the south.

[azguy]

Real estate is fun and profitable, but the real $$ (at least IMHO) is in the stock market. Real estate has been a nice ride in the past 3 years. Moving on...

[will76]

Originally Posted by LegendaryLars

Man oh man the frenzy is at its peak read this shit and tell me its not.


http://www.fortune.com/fortune/inves...061371,00.html


And the appreciation! Surely you?ve heard, because real estate profits are the kind of thing that no one?your neighbor, your boss, yourself?can seem to shut up about. Since 2000 the median sales price of a single-family home has jumped 77% in New York City, 92% in Miami, and 105% in San Diego. "Nationally, all levels of real estate activity are at all-time highs," says economist Mark Zandi


Speculators are creatures who emerge every decade or so to exploit the hot business cycle of the moment?those whose aim is to ride the wave to its highest point and then, with miraculous skill and timing, get out before it crashes on all the greater fools beneath. (They are also, like fishermen, more than willing to exaggerate the size of their catch.) Lately their numbers have been multiplying with every cocktail-party tale of a dentist, florist, or shrink buying "threesies" and "foursies" (three or four properties at a time, in speculatorese) and making a killing.



Many of them acknowledge that they are part of a bubble and that a correction is coming. But they believe it won?t hit their market?or that if it does, they?ll be able to get out in time. Despite all the warnings and a few bleats of self-doubt, most of these people are continuing to behave with all the stark raving urgency of panicked shoppers at an after-Christmas clearance sale.


That amount, the couple say, represents their entire net worth. But that fact doesn?t seem to trouble them much. They plan to sell properties when they need the cash and hold on to the others to fund their retirement. "It?s a risk," concedes Debbie, "but I really feel like it?s a lot less risky than the stock market. Even if it does crash, it?s not like it?s worth nothing?like a stock, where the value can go all the way to zero. I guess it?s much more exciting than it is scary."



Is he worried about talk of a bubble? "Well, I can foresee what will happen," he says. "I know in the near future a lot of people who have interest-only mortgages will get in trouble."

He?s probably right. Interest-only mortgages?which don?t pay down principal, so borrowers make lower payments than with conventional mortgages and thus can afford more expensive houses?used to be considered risky. In 2001 just 1.6% of all new U.S. mortgages were interest-only. But last year a stunning 31% were. If there?s any sign that a downturn could get loads of folks in trouble, that?s it.


In the past year the number of Phoenix homebuyers who identified themselves as investors has more than doubled, to 2,703. They bought 18% of all homes sold in the Phoenix area in 2004, according to Infocom, a local real estate research company. Phoenix builders, fearing that the speculative frenzy would damage their primary business, soon announced the same kind of antispeculation clauses that had proved largely successful in both California and Las Vegas.

By the time those measures were in place in Phoenix last fall, however, the swarm of investors descending on the city was almost too much to stop. At one of the construction sites of big builder Toll Brothers, a van full of investors from Las Vegas pulled up to a sales trailer shortly after the antispeculation measures had gone into effect. According to a Toll Brothers spokesperson, the saleswoman on call was so flustered by the group?s displeasure at being denied an opportunity to invest in such a scalding market that she had to radio headquarters for backup. "They all wanted to buy multiple properties, and they wouldn?t take no for an answer," says the spokesperson. "They were trying to climb in and give her their deposits. She had to lock herself in the trailer."


The houses aren?t exactly throwing off cash: Tahmassebian estimates that he loses $3,500 a month on them, since he doesn?t bother to rent out all 15. "If I?m negative on a few, that?s okay," he says. "I?m in it for the appreciation." In seven months, he estimates, the 15 properties have appreciated from $2 million to $3 million. He?s planning to sell in the next two to three years, but if the market does crash?which he doesn?t expect?it wouldn?t be a disaster, he says: "You just hold on till it comes right back up."

There are a lot of people getting in at the top of the market, and you could hear some horror stories if it doesn?t last."

"I read all the stories about real estate and condos in Miami," he says. "You know, saying, 'Everyone is a speculator,' and 'It's a herd mentality.' I see them all the time now, and I wonder: Am I one of those people?"



Hhahahahah the market will just come back up... tell that to the fucking NASDAQ hahahahahah

The Shit is gonna hit the fan so fucking hard !

YAWN I keep building them and selling them before they are finished being built.

[woj]

Things will be rough indeed, that's probably why they passed new bankruptcy laws recently.

[Amputate Your Head]

Location location location..... and I'm sittin' on the mutha fuckin' beach.

Your bubble may burst.... but mines still shining.

[woj]

Originally Posted by KMR Stitch

Lars you are taking out 1 key factor....

Did D_Nell ended up giving you a refund by the way?

[Veterans Day]

small pockets of devaluation, such as shithole california. Overall the best investment one can make. Nothing dramatic

[Greg B]

Lars is right.

There's a bust coming so hard it'll make the world's head spin.

Security is the key for economic growth. Plain and simple. If criminals and/or natural disasters happen, prices drop because the 'location' isn't safe. Riots too.

Incomes aren't rising to meet the need to live comfortablyin the U.S. properties in the 'happy climates' also bring the challenge of hurricanes. There are people still in Florida that haven't had last years disasters cleaned up. Let ONE big ass hurricane hit Miami and you can kiss it goodbye. Let a big as earthquake hit Cali again. Prices will drop like a rock.

Let ONE terrorist attack hit another big city and it'll be a nightmare.

If things were perfect, prices would keep risin' but they're not perfect.

[Veterans Day]

Originally Posted by Greg B

Lars is right.

There's a bust coming so hard it'll make the world's head spin.

We been buying and selling for 10 years, these busts crack me up

[dig420]

Even when the bubble bursts the houses rarely go down all that much in value, they just stop rising for a while. You just hang on. I just bought a house in LA last year for 900k and coincidentally the deed of title on a 1.125m house in Las Vegas just got passed to me this morning. I'm not scared. I have two 30 yr fixed loans at a good interest rate and if I have to pass through this bubble, out the other side and into the next bubble before I sell I don't see it as a problem.

When the govt. decides to go after porn sites, THAT'S a problem I worry about.

[jonesy]

there will never be a decline in real estate. ever.

what you will have is a leveling off.

do some research on the history of real estate.

it never goes down. ever.

[KMR Stitch]

Originally Posted by woj

Did D_Nell ended up giving you a refund by the way?

Nope, Please bump that thread he has like an hr left

[venus]

February 2004 I put my house in vegas up for sale, I tohught it would take awhile to sell, the real estate egent even added on an additional $5000 just to try to make it sell slow because we were not ready to move.

It sold in 12 hours to a woman in california who didn't even look at the house.
She was then nice enough to rent it back to us untill our new custom home in phoenix was ready (July)

I think in certain areas, the housing market is up so high that allot of people will not make their money back. Where I am at now, I have almost 2 acres, new tract homes are being built all around us and new shopping centers are going up, but I got in when it was still cheap so I expect to see some good appreciation as soon as most the new tract homes are finished.

[KRL]

Originally Posted by jonesy

there will never be a decline in real estate. ever.

what you will have is a leveling off.

do some research on the history of real estate.

it never goes down. ever.

LOL, you've never owned a property in an earthquake zone I imagine.

Properties do go down in value when its a buyers market because you have a lot of desparate sellers that just want out no matter what the price.

[TheJimmy]

that dude that wrote Rich Dad's real estate book said it well...

do the opposite of what the herd is doing, when everyone is buying homes, DON'T! (buy stocks instead)

when everyone is buying stocks, DON'T... (invest in RE)


...overly simplistic, but nonetheless sound advice for the most part, it's pretty clear that when stocks dump people get nervous and run to the 'solid' land/housing purchases/investments...and vice versa...

following trends can work for a while, but you def have to watch for the teeder/todder moving...


.

[goBigtime]

Originally Posted by LegendaryLars

Man oh man the frenzy is at its peak read this shit and tell me its not.


The Shit is gonna hit the fan so fucking hard !

I've been preachin it on this board for many months... the first time I said within 18 months, and about 6 months later I said with 12..... It's going to happen by next april in my opinion... and yeah, depending on how hard it drops (there aren't any stops in the RE market like there are in the stock market).... we could be headed for a depressions much worst than the first.

Alot of people are going to panic and want to get out of their mortgages at the same time.... they'll want to rent 'for awhile'... but they'll wind up renting for the rest of their lives.

Here's a interesting bit of info.... you know that these days if you have a bad credit or a bankruptcy, a lot of places wont hire you? Think about that for a bit.

[Elli]

Vancouver real estate looks to be on the rise, considering the 2010 winter Olympics and the accompanying road/infrastructure improvements. I wish I still owned my house...

[goBigtime]

Thomas Jefferson said it best:

Originally Posted by Thomas Jefferson

I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies . . . If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] . . . will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered . . . The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.

* Letter to the Secretary of the Treasury Albert Gallatin (1802) ; later published in The Debate Over The Recharter Of The Bank Bill (1809)

[clickhappy]

Alan Greenspan said theres no real bubble, just pocket bubble areas.
So I dont think the shit's going to hit the fan, I just think there will be a little depreciation in California, NYC, Las Vegas and Boston.

[Paul Markham]

No one has mentioned the bank rate.

Today it's at 1%, I believe, this is fueling a massive spending spree and personal debt mountain the US not the world can afford.

So if the bank rate goes to 2% the cost of buying a house goes up, the price people can afford to pay, the only thing that governs house prices, drops. The effest are thousands of people paying out loans of say $200K on a property that is worth $150K. Plus people who simply can't afford the repayments and have their home reposessed by the bank.

Everything else is fluctuation, the bank rate and economy is what governs house prices.

Look at the housing crash in the UK for a good example of what happens.

[goBigtime]

Originally Posted by Veterans Day

small pockets of devaluation, such as shithole california. Overall the best investment one can make. Nothing dramatic

You don't think a major drop in California RE values will take the entire countries value down with it?

[Xenophage]

http://www.planning.org/affordablere...bubble0603.htm

Yes well as an owner of a lot of california real estate its not liek I missed the boat. most fot he property I bought I got 5-6 years ago

But I disagree with the baby boomer theory. Its sounds like a dot com pep rally in this thread hahhaha.


Oh and tell that to the people in TOKYO hahaha 20 years and teh real estate and stock market are still half or less of what they were. Hahahah the guy waiting for it to just come back up could be waiting a long fucking time.

[goBigtime]

Originally Posted by clickhappy

Alan Greenspan said theres no real bubble, just pocket bubble areas.
So I dont think the shit's going to hit the fan, I just think there will be a little depreciation in California, NYC, Las Vegas and Boston.

Alan Greenspan told you to invest in ARM's right before he started raising the interest rates. What's that tell you?

http://www.suntimes.com/output/savag...-terry045.html

[Xenophage]

During the last half of the 1980s, Boston home prices rose by 73 percent while incomes rose only 42 percent. A recession and attendant correction resulted in an 11 percent drop in home prices that did not recover fully for seven years. During the late 1980s and early 1990s, Los Angeles saw an 89 percent increase in home prices and a 37 percent increase in income. Soon afterward, defense-industry cutbacks precipitated a correction that reduced house values by 24 percent in L.A. over a five-year period. It took another four years to recover.

These bubbles were regional. During the same period, Minneapolis, Chicago, and other cities continued to experience uninterrupted increases in housing values.




anyway my prediction is in many areas vegas california florida arizona and the north east will suffer a 10-20% drop in price and it will take 5-10 years to recover that ammount !

[Xenophage]

Originally Posted by goBigtime

Alan Greenspan told you to invest in ARM's right before he started raising the interest rates. What's that tell you?

http://www.suntimes.com/output/savag...-terry045.html

hehehheh

[goBigtime]

Originally Posted by LegendaryLars

http://www.planning.org/affordablere...bubble0603.htm

Yes well as an owner of a lot of california real estate its not liek I missed the boat. most fot he property I bought I got 5-6 years ago

But I disagree with the baby boomer theory. Its sounds like a dot com pep rally in this thread hahhaha.


Oh and tell that to the people in TOKYO hahaha 20 years and teh real estate and stock market are still half or less of what they were. Hahahah the guy waiting for it to just come back up could be waiting a long fucking time.

Funny you mentioned Tokyo... There was a guy who was a MAJOR re investor
who pulled out of all his properties in the states about 3 or 4 years ago. I mean he had 1000's of properties mostly in California I think.

I guess he's an idiot considering how much they've gone up since then right?

That, or he knew the crash was coming and made a conservative exit.

[Xenophage]

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/21/business/21fed.html


our buddy alan

[Xenophage]

Originally Posted by goBigtime

Funny you mentioned Tokyo... There was a guy who was a MAJOR re investor
who pulled out of all his properties in the states about 3 or 4 years ago. I mean he had 1000's of properties mostly in California I think.

I guess he's an idiot considering how much they've gone up since then right?

That, or he knew the crash was coming and made a conservative exit.

Hmm I have no idea his personal reasons to liquidate his assets...

but who knows downt eh road he might look like a shining star or a dumbshit... as long as he has more money in the bank than me I cant call him an idiot... I will leave that to Sleazy

[Xenophage]

http://money.cnn.com/2005/05/12/real...0markets_0506/


top 100 real estate markets

[goBigtime]

Originally Posted by LegendaryLars

anyway my prediction is in many areas vegas california florida arizona and the north east will suffer a 10-20% drop in price and it will take 5-10 years to recover that ammount !

Does that 10-20% prediction factor in the panic selling? You know how the stock market works lars... maybe something happens to a company that should legitimately result in a 20% drop... but the public freaks the fuck out and creats a 60% drop... sure, it bounces back and recovers eventually (to that legitimate 20% drop level... not always full recovery)... after they've shaken out all the people who don't understand that game.


In RE there are no stops like in the market... and a lot of people set themsevles up pretty bad. People everywhere buying way more house than they can really afford because they think RE is a guaranteed money tree.

EXAMPLE: many people had a $100k house go to $400k.... then they cash out $300k ahead, go wild with $50k and take the other $250k and use it as a down payment for a $750k house. They didn't get a new job or anything.... but now they have a $500,000 mortage instead of a $100,000 mortage. Hehe.

So when RE starts to lose its value... people in the example above are going to bail and try renting for awhile "until things settle down".

When are people going to learn that the people pulling the strings don't just hand out money to the masses like this... by the time it gets to the point to where everyone and their mom is doing it and making a little change -- it's a trick. They are about to flip on your ass and have you broke - for the rest of your life.

It almost makes me sad.

[Xenophage]

santa cruz has gotten really silly

700K buys you a 1000 Sq ft shack on a 4500 sq ft lot

[Xenophage]

[Xenophage]

Originally Posted by goBigtime

Does that 10-20% prediction factor in the panic selling? You know how the stock market works lars... maybe something happens to a company that should legitimately result in a 20% drop... but the public freaks the fuck out and creats a 60% drop... sure, it bounces back and recovers eventually (to that legitimate 20% drop level... not always full recovery)... after they've shaken out all the people who don't understand that game.


In RE there are no stops like in the market... and a lot of people set themsevles up pretty bad. People everywhere buying way more house than they can really afford because they think RE is a guaranteed money tree.

EXAMPLE: many people had a $100k house go to $400k.... then they cash out $300k ahead, go wild with $50k and take the other $250k and use it as a down payment for a $750k house. They didn't get a new job or anything.... but now they have a $500,000 mortage instead of a $100,000 mortage. Hehe.

So when RE starts to lose its value... people in the example above are going to bail and try renting for awhile "until things settle down".

When are people going to learn that the people pulling the strings don't just hand out money to the masses like this... by the time it gets to the point to where everyone and their mom is doing it and making a little change -- it's a trick. They are about to flip on your ass and have you broke - for the rest of your life.

It almost makes me sad.

yes I agree but the key difference between stocks and real estate is liquidity. When the bubble burst it will be hard to get out. The people who buy in the last 6 months of the bublle are totally fucked.

[Xenophage]

[Xenophage]

though you can invest in real esate as a stock...


IYR real estate ETF




it pays a fat dividend and has almos doubled in 3 years...

and it has liquidity.. so ya could get in and out quick..

and if ya margined .. like a mortgage you could a quadrupled your money.

[dropped9]

How soon do you guys think its gunna pop? The wifey wants to start looking for a new home sometime in august... I think it might be best to wait a lil myself...

[BoNgHiTtA]

Im going to have to go with people like Greenspan and Buffet. There are pockets of hyper growth (look at the areas posted in the other thread) BUT, other areas are appreciating at a sustainable rate. Sure, there is a bubble in some areas, but others are not in any sort of stock market decline danger.

[Xenophage]

Originally Posted by Headless

How soon do you guys think its gunna pop? The wifey wants to start looking for a new home sometime in august... I think it might be best to wait a lil myself...

good ? I have no idea.. thats what is so irritating and what fuels the mad rush in.. if it does not happen for another 2 years and prices go up another 30% then even if it drops 10 -20 % you might kick yourslf for not doing it now.. if its for a primary living I would just do it now... if its for speculation I would hold off.

but thats just me

[toddler]

ARMs are fine if they're fixed for X years, and you don't plan on staying long. ARM+interest only is fine for the same reasons. It would be wise, however, to pay down as much of the prinicple that you can early however. If you're planning on staying there, get a 30 year fixed.

[Xenophage]

Originally Posted by BoNgHiTtA

Im going to have to go with people like Greenspan and Buffet. There are pockets of hyper growth (look at the areas posted in the other thread) BUT, other areas are appreciating at a sustainable rate. Sure, there is a bubble in some areas, but others are not in any sort of stock market decline danger.

true salt lake area actually declined.... in price

[Xenophage]

Originally Posted by toddler

ARMs are fine if they're fixed for X years, and you don't plan on staying long. ARM+interest only is fine for the same reasons. It would be wise, however, to pay down as much of the prinicple that you can early however. If you're planning on staying there, get a 30 year fixed.

the average household moves every 6 years... its a tossup

[dropped9]

Originally Posted by LegendaryLars

good ? I have no idea.. thats what is so irritating and what fuels the mad rush in.. if it does not happen for another 2 years and prices go up another 30% then even if it drops 10 -20 % you might kick yourslf for not doing it now.. if its for a primary living I would just do it now... if its for speculation I would hold off.

but thats just me

good points! Its amazing what the re values have gone to around my area... Homes that were selling for 100k-200k are now around 300-400k fucking insane... I got a buddy that bought his house 5 years ago for 180k. The house next door sold for 425k last month.. talk about insane...

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by KRL

LOL, you've never owned a property in an earthquake zone I imagine..

I rented my house but I had friends who owned homes in LA and the few that did sell after the quake did not lose money.

Originally Posted by KRL

Properties do go down in value when its a buyers market because you have a lot of desparate sellers that just want out no matter what the price.

true but the majority of homes that are sold in instances like that (ie desperate) are very short term and dont lose value in the long run.

that 94 earthquake was a leveler so to speak

i just feel all this talk of a bursting bubble is bullshit.

i do think its going to level off and stop for awhile.
but a decline in price?
nope.

[Xenophage]

in 1988 I bought ahouse in Santa Cruz for 156,000 in 1989 after the earthquake I sold that same house for 270,000 It was a huge runup in real estate in this area. Much like it is now.... The price of the house then went to about 220-240K within the next 5 years and it took to 1999 tech boom for it to pass the 270K.. since 1999 till now that house is worth about 850K so if ya were willing to sit on the property and could afford to do so for 10 years you were well rewarded. I guess my point of this thread, is just make sure you are no so leveraged that you could not pay the mortgage for 10 years out of pocket or subsidized with rental income..

[mockingbich]

I don't understand why nobody ever figures in the ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION

you've got 4 mexican families crammed into 400-500 thousand dollar homes and the banks are giving them loans with false documents. The population explosion in California is not American. 8 in 10 police traffic stops in Los Angeles are non english speakers

It's not just border jumping mexicans coming in and driving up the prices. There are plenty of wealthy foreigners from Asia and Europe picking up bargains while the dollar is low. For example, there are waiting lists to buy luxury high rise apartments on the Vegas Strip that haven't even been built yet

Unless the government gets control of the borders real estate will continue to boom out of reach for most middle class Americans

The American Civil War Part 2 - coming sooner than you think

[Big Ray]

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...NG5CCS82U1.DTL

I love this series.

[Drake]

I wish I had a crystal ball right now

[chadglni]

Interesting thread, thanks Lars. By the way, wanted to ask you if you wanted the domains in my sig. Would do $60 for both. Let me know.