Snake Doctor

Very interesting read.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/25/op...=1&ref=opinion

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David!

So the bad mean people who got the bonus are not mean after all. WOW.
How will the obashit retards reply to that?

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nation-x

You are the only retard to reply so far....

I say BULLSHIT. I say that as a VP at AIG and a graduate of MIT he knew exactly what the derivatives trading wing of AIG would do. As far as his bonus... oh well... he was a vicitm of his own company and noone else. If I could reply to him I would tell him to stop whining and stfu.

Snake Doctor

Dude, this is an adult forum, you need to be 18 to post here, go back to school.

People like you are the reason your point of view never gets a fair hearing, because people can't see the point of view through all of the idiocy and hatred you spew.

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David!

Fuck off, when it comes to Bush it is alright for you and your fuck friends to talk like a retard, but when it is obama, then I am a child if I dare insult that piece of scum shit that is our president?
FUCK YOU

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tony286

Well said

nation-x

Bush and his buddies really DID cause this shit by suspending the uptick rule in 2004 and increasing the leverage limit from 10X to 40X... that is why so many hedge fund managers became so rich in 2005 and 2006 at the expense of us all. So... Bush more than deserves criticism. Obama hasn't had time to deserve it... he hasn't even been in office 90 days yet.

TurboAngel

The US is all fucked up.

SteveHardeman

You guys do realize that the federal government, and therefore all US citizens, now own 80% of AIG, right?

If I owned 80% of a company I would do my best to keep the best and brightest in my company. This guy is going to go work for Deutche Bank or some other foreign bank that didn't receive bailout funds. He's going to make that bank stronger and the bank we own, weaker.

Just my two cents. I say pay the man.

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Techie Media

Well the last few years did put the us in a shitty economic situation but we are strong and are on the rebound for sure. This will take some time to get back but in the end we will have the strongest economy once again.
Many good things have already started to take place and "slowly" the economy is coming back.

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nation-x

barefootsies posted one of these links earlier... you should watch it...
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...trillion/view/

I also recommend
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/meltdown/view/

tony286

They are the best and brightest for getting over rules and destroying the economy. This wasnt caused by some guy in cleveland not paying his mortgage. It was these scumbags leveraging 35 to 1.

Mr. Romance

I just can't wait until we get our 5 billion for the porn bail out and we all get our 1 million bonus


Mr. Romance

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Snake Doctor

You didn't insult Obama, you insulted everyone who voted for him or agrees with his policies.

Posts like this one I'm quoting are just proof that you are an infantile person who is about 15 years old, if not physically then definitely mentally, whose only way to deal with public policies that you don't like is to go to an internet forum and call the President a piece of scum sucking shit and the people who voted for him retards.

This thread was meant to provoke thoughtful discussion of a contentious topic, not bring out the infantile array of insults from you and your friends who listen to Rush Limbaugh during recess and post on GFY via your iphone between classes.

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nation-x

hear hear Can a motherfucka get a Amen foo?

Snake Doctor

So you think the guy who had nothing to do with the derivatives business, who has a degree from MIT and a family, should work for a company that he knows won't be there a year from now, and turn down other more stable jobs, and also receive no pay for it?

If you actually put your pitchfork down and read the letter, you'll realize that the people involved in the credit default swap business are long gone, and the only people left are the ones trying to clean up the mess they left behind.

Like the guy said in the letter, it's like not paying the plumber for his work because the electrician's mistake burned the house down.

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nation-x

Umm... I shall partake in this action good sir... insert Bush above.

David!

A reply to you is as useless as explaining that pissing on all trees will not get pussy to my castrated chihuahua.
You are truly a dumb fuck who just love obashit's cock in your ass.
Fuck you and don't bother replying to this...

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Helix

It's always interesting to hear both sides of the story.

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Snake Doctor

Wow that was really coherent and mature.

We should all definitely pay close attention to your pontifications on public policy and your opinions of our political leaders. You obviously have given these things alot of rational thought.

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grumpy

the left hand doesnt know what the right hand is doing.
Its what the gemans used to say after the war.
"Ich habe es nicht gewust"

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nation-x

Besides racist reasons... which of the descriptions of a liberal do you agree with in the following conservative description of a liberal?

http://www.conservapedia.com/Liberal

INDY500DRIVER

YOu are right, but, as the letter says, and of which is true, these guys work for 1$, not the credit default swap guys, this guy made tons of money for AIG, he shoud get paid.. end of story.... just a thought..

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12clicks

typical uneducated opinion

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nation-x

reeeaaally... says the sheep to the wolf.

nation-x

If you read the letter you would realize that he wasn't working for $1... he was working for a million dollar bonus and that is why he quit.

12clicks

Amazing what the rabble imagine they understand about business or the economy.

YOU are exactly the crowd Obama plays too.
And you're not even bright enough to know it or be embarrassed by it

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INDY500DRIVER

I did say he should get paid.. not 1 dollar

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nation-x

You are the crowd that Bush played to as he raped the economy... so why should we give a fuck what you have to say?

Penthouse Tony

At the moment the government decided to bail them out and spend billions on this company then we must conclude that this company is worthy of being saved. If the company loses it's talent then how will it continue to run especially during this difficult time? What happens to our billions of dollars that were just pumped into this company?

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nation-x

The company has 116,000 employees... I seriously doubt the loss of VPs will damage the company... my guess is that there are alot of qualified individuals working in the ranks that could handle the jobs that these guys were doing.

Penthouse Tony

Are they not going to want to be compensated?

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WarChild

nation-x and Tony404 on the economy. Holy fuck is that ever funny.

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Snake Doctor

I think it's amazing how the human psyche has a need for things to be one way or the other.

It either has to be all wall street's fault, or all the speculators fault, or all the republican's fault, or all the democrat's fault.

I voted for Obama, I'm one of the most liberal posters on this board, yet I agree with the guy who wrote this letter and I think the populist outrage over AIG bonuses is a red herring that's keeping people from being able to fix the real problems.

The problem was an inherent flaw in the system, and an inherent flaw in the belief that markets are self-correcting and self-regulating.

Alot of people did exactly what they were supposed to do. The problem wasn't greedy people on Wall Street who took advantage of poor people, the problem wasn't liberals who wanted poor people to be able to own homes.
Mortgage brokers did what they were supposed to do, they got people mortgages. Wall Street brokers did what they were supposed to do, they sold paper. The math guys did what they were supposed to do, they modeled risk. Middle class people did what they were supposed to do, they tried to work their way into the upper class and they used housing as the vehicle with which to attempt the leap.

You can't blame only Wall Street because there had to be someone on the other side of the table signing the papers saying they would pay back the mortgage. You can't blame only the people who bought houses, because housing had always been a sound investment in the past and the banks were willing to give them mortgages with no money down.
Who wouldn't take a bet where if you win you make hundreds of thousands of dollars and if you lose you have to deal with a few years of having bad credit?

The problem was the inherent flaws in the system. The repeal of the Glass Steagal Act, written by Phil Gramm but signed into law by Bill Clinton. (That law passed the Senate by a vote of 90-8 btw..so pretty much everyone has to take responsibility for that)
The Commodity Futures Modernization Act which said that credit default swaps couldn't be regulated as insurance products OR as gambling.
JP Morgan convincing federal regulators that if they bought CDS protection for all the CDO's on their books, that was the same as removing the risk from their books, so they should be able to go out and lend that money all over again.
This is how we ended up with banks and brokerages leveraged 40 to 1 instead of their normal 10 or 12 to 1.

There are a dozen reasons we got into the mess we're in, and there are a dozen different groups of people to blame, so for the sake of intellectual honesty can we please quit blaming "these guys" or "that law" as the sole reason we're all a little fucked right now?

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nation-x

Noone has complained about reasonable salaries... personally, I don't have problem with bonuses or salaries... my only point is that his letter was bullshit... btw... how exactly do you go from being a laboratory intern to director of a bank?

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/a/401/b8b

UFGators2007

After reading that letter I now truly know the meaning of Christmas. Turkeys and all the trimmings for everyone!

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nation-x

How grandiose. Jake DeSantis appears to be going to work for UBS, his prior employer, to whom he just sold the AIG commodity index business.

Penthouse Tony

17 years ago when he was a student at MIT he got summer internships. Who cares? This has nothing to do with what we are discussing in the thread.

Why is the letter bullshit?

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crockett

Except in this case it's the builder whom is paying both the plumber and the electrician. In any other situation no bonuses would ever be paid out to the electrician or the plumber unless there was a profit from the sale of the house. If the house burnt down, reguardless of who caused it, no one would get a bonus until the money was recovered.

AIG has no profit.. They had to be bailed out, so if they want to hand out bonuses, well then they better get their ass in gear and start turning a profit.

btw they are getting "paid" they just aren't getting bonuses..

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nation-x

^^ See above... he sold the section of the company he worked in and took a job with UBS... then grandstanded with that letter to the NYT where he never mentioned either of those things.

Also... look at what his previous job at UBS was... "Equity derivatives trading."

Cry me a river... that is why his letter was bullshit.

Biggy

The big problem today is, ppl are so disenfranchised with wall street, they want to see ANYONE get punished associated with these firms, vs really thinking about a solution.

AIG will crumble for sure if they can't keep good people there. I don't necessarily take this guy at face value, but on the other end, you can tell people are just going for punitive measures and that means they're shifting focus away from a real solution.

Libertine

If you were a highly competent person working at AIG, and you could easily get a job at other companies, would you continue working for AIG even if it meant politicians would try to fuck with your contract?

Obviously not - unless you're an idiot.

So, most of the people who can find well-paying jobs elsewhere will do so. The most talented and most promising employees will leave and seek greener pastures. Of course, they will get replaced. Largely by less competent people or people who haven't proven themselves yet.

How exactly will that help the company?

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Snake Doctor

He got paid $1 in salary, and was given a contract promising a $1M bonus in March of 2009.

His job was to sell the part of the company he ran to another company, so that AIG could use the proceeds of that sale to pay the government back.

This guy is not the builder or the electrician, he's just the plumber, and the work he did for the company made them hundreds of millions of dollars and the expertise he has in his area, and the knowledge that he has about that division of the company, knowledge that nobody else has, not even another expert in his field, because he's the one who ran that actual division....that knowledge was necessary to complete the sale and that's why he got paid.

Not only that, but this guy is going to give all of the bonus money to charity and yet you people still want to burn him at the stake as "the bad guy who caused this whole mess"

All I have to say is thank god the founding fathers didn't put the House of Representatives in charge of everything with no checks and balances, or else we'd have already burned all of the banking and insurance CEO's in the country at the stake.

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Snake Doctor

Not only that, but AIG as we know it won't exist very soon....they're selling off the company in pieces, and to do that you need people who know where all the bodies are buried. You can't sell the pieces without those people....it would take forensic accountants months and months and months to do the due diligence necessary for other companies to buy the pieces if the AIG employees who knew what was going on weren't there.
In the end that would cost the taxpayers alot more than it cost to just pay the bonuses and keep the people there.

Of course the mob is out and about with their pitch forks and ready to cut of their noses to spite their faces.

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nation-x

He did mention the sale to UBS but not his impending employment.

OG LennyT

Anyone else find it interesting this man was VP of financial products and yet has never met the CEO? Mr Liddy took the helm Sept of last year but evidently doesn't meet with his top guys?

Always two sides to a story, even one as complex as this. I agree that this guy was in the "old boys" club with former AIG ballers and they all got paid.

Sorry, victim letter doesn't work for me pal.

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Penthouse Tony

He's a banker. Where else is he going to get a job if not at another bank. You shouldn't discount what he writes in the letter because of this. Namely that the CEO and the politicians knew of the bonus and didn't care about them up until recently.

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Snake Doctor

It's not a victim letter, I highly doubt this guy is trying to make anyone feel sorry for him.

All he's saying, and I agree, is that if you ask the crew to stay onboard the Titanic so you can salvage the valuables before it goes under, taking the crew's lifeboat away at the last minute and telling them that they should drown because they were part of the reason the ship is sinking....is kind of a shitty thing to do.
Especially since the people you're taking the lifeboat away from were working in the engine room, not navigation.

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Snake Doctor

True dat.

A U.S. House member never misses a chance to grandstand in front of the cameras, and this thing just grew legs so Obama and his people had to say/do something about it, while at the same time trying to calm the mob down.

This is the kind of story that boosts ratings and sells newspapers, so it's no surprise that the news organizations have been beating it to death to stoke the fire.

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