Have times REALLY changed? - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

Jet - BANNED FOR LIFE · 08-17-2009, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveLightspeed

Really great to see someone come out ANTI-ETHICS and ANTI-HONESTY.
Feel free to root for the other team

. Now everyone knows where you stand.

Due · 08-17-2009, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony404

Go to listen to the sin2.0 they have the seminar they had with guy from the ftc.they asked about visable prechecked cross sales the gov guy said thats aproblem.you could hear a pin drop.

I heard it, really a stupid move to invite them. I think there was a lack of legal representation on behalf of the industry to properly question him.

FTC is a private organization controlled by the government partial funded by fines they issue. (correct me if I'm wrong please)
The FTC was not aware of any issues as the % of bad business is so absolutely tiny, now someone told them "it's a huge problem" because there is 5-6 people out of 1000s doing some shady business, obviously they did not name any names so this mean that it is likely that the investigations will just hit "the biggest players" that may be all legit, FTC doesn't see your volumes, they see only the complaints, someone with 0.1% complain ratio may appear worse than someone with a 5% complain ratio and shady business plan, simply because they do 100 or 1000 times more business.

I think recently we saw soulcash fight the FTC and win, but went out of business because of the costs etc involved with fighting a commission based regulator

I'm not against a regulated market at all, just against regulators trying to regulate based on results rather than common sense and the law, but if you want the same budgets for the next 4 years, you gotta show some results

Octopus · 08-17-2009, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveLightspeed

There is alot of discussion about how "times have changed". Money is tighter now, surfers are smarter, and the industry is more "Dog eat Dog" than ever. After all, you have to keep up with your competitors! If they are willing to ignore common sense and rules of ethics and morality, then they have an edge, right? But is it really true?

After 10 years, I've seen lots of companies come and go. But the ones that have made the MOST MONEY, and are STILL ACTIVE, are the ones with a long term perspective and an honest approach.

To me, when I see a competitor doing something unethical or dishonest, it tells me that they are DESPERATE AND ON THE VERGE OF DIEING. Everyone is as honest as their bank account allows. Instead of following the "Can't beat them, join em" motto, rest assured in the fact that YOU ARE WINNING. Let them try to sleep well or look themselves in the mirror KNOWING THEY ARE RIPPING PEOPLE OFF. Karma will have its day, it is inevitable.

History ALWAYS repeats iteself. GREED and DESPERATION are always followed by FAILURE and COLLAPSE. Time will sort the winners and the losers. "Give someone enough rope and they will hang themselves." No one can ever tell me that lieing, cheating, or stealing is the correct way to run a business. If you need money badly enough to steal it, or assist someone else to steal it, then I feel sorry for you, but maybe this industry isn't the right one for you? There is plenty of money to be made in this business by running honestly and ethically. If you can't figure out how to do it, then get out and stop fucking things up for everyone else.

If you agree, then support the companies you know are fighting the good fight, and don't give in to the pressure.

Steve Lightspeed

I am totally agree with you...

xxweekxx · 08-17-2009, 11:24 AM

Heres what i will say, Nothing like Karma, etc.. the greedy people always win..

I know lots of guys who are rich, and i only found out they are rich because they fucked consumer over one way or another...

Do this, name 30 TOP rich guys in this biz..How many of them are not shady, meaning no cross sales, hidden joins, spam, etc, u can probably count on one hand.

I found out from my experience that the more shady/blackhat you are willing to go, the more money you'll make.. this is how life works..

You could have a nice site you promote yourself, and lets say you get 50 joins/day @ $30, thats $1,500, but all of a sudden you can add $100 in extra crossale, and lets say 20% fall for it, you just doubled your income therotetically..

I noticed morality goes out the window after $1,000/day, meaning if you tell someone listen, i can show you a way to make $2,000 a DAY, but its immoral, Legal yes, but very shady, 99% of people would do it..

If i started a new thread and said hey guys, theres a new way to make money, ull make $2,000 a day, its legal but its very shady and you will be fucking over the consumer 100%, heck even ripping them off, but its legal and no jail... lol.. pretty much everyone here will be like share the method.. i wanna do it, etc.lol

As they say, the only thing stopping people from robbing banks is jail time

BV · 08-17-2009, 11:28 AM

If you think about it and have been in this business for 10+ years, so many companies, even big ones,have come and gone.

Credit is due for the sites and companies that have been here since the get go.

Sometimes I think this industry glamorizes the"Live fast, die young" ideology.

Crazy

Personally I feel everything will work out for those that love what they do and do what they love.

There will be no more grand slams unless it involves some sort of someone getting fucked over.

So if you lay down with dogs, expect to wake up with fleas.

Sid70 · 08-17-2009, 12:08 PM

if i had 500k+ i would leave for Goa, but im forced to take this:

Sid70 · 08-17-2009, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BV

... for those that love what they do and do what they love.

is it me or you just echoed to yourself?

CamJack · 08-17-2009, 12:10 PM

I thought you gave up on GFY Steve?
Wasn't your business built off spam anyways?
Get off your high horse man.

Nothing worse than a newbie dinosaur is this biz rubbing salt in people's wounds.

CamJack · 08-17-2009, 12:19 PM

Fuck I am livid now.
Who died and crowned you King of Morality?!

Exploiting teenagers while still in highschool and you're mad at a tube site that sends you front door signups, or xsales...wtf?!

Mutt · 08-17-2009, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geoGUERILLA

Fuck I am livid now.
Who died and crowned you King of Morality?!

Exploiting teenagers while still in highschool and you're mad at a tube site that sends you front door signups, or xsales...wtf?!

how did he exploit them? did he trick them? did he not pay them?

oh and let's just say for argument's sake that teenagers still in high school are being exploited ok?

THEN TELL ME WHY EVERY FUCKING TEEN SOLO GIRL SITE WEBMASTER INCLUDING ME HAS HAD TO DEAL WITH YOUR FUCKING EMPLOYEES FOR MONTHS BEGGING AND BEGGING FOR GUERILLA CASH CCBILL X-SALES? OH I SEE THE ONLY THING YOU'RE BITTER ABOUT IS THAT YOU AREN'T MAKING ANY MONEY OFF THE EXPLOITATION ........

brassmonkey · 08-17-2009, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geoGUERILLA

Fuck I am livid now.
Who died and crowned you King of Morality?!

Exploiting teenagers while still in highschool and you're mad at a tube site that sends you front door signups, or xsales...wtf?!

a fight!!

BV · 08-17-2009, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mutt

how did he exploit them? did he trick them? did he not pay them?

oh and let's just say for argument's sake that teenagers still in high school are being exploited ok?

THEN TELL ME WHY EVERY FUCKING TEEN SOLO GIRL SITE WEBMASTER INCLUDING ME HAS HAD TO DEAL WITH YOUR FUCKING EMPLOYEES FOR MONTHS BEGGING AND BEGGING FOR GUERILLA CASH CCBILL X-SALES? OH I SEE THE ONLY THING YOU'RE BITTER ABOUT IS THAT YOU AREN'T MAKING ANY MONEY OFF THE EXPLOITATION ........

amen to that,

they hammered me also about doing cross sales with them

08-17-2009, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kristin

I really hope this doesn't turn into a tube bashing thread. There was waaaaaay more wrong with the moral of companies and such even before tubes.

CamJack · 08-17-2009, 12:36 PM

We are trying to drum up business. Simple. I am not posting on GFY how I am this poster boy for business morality or telling people how to run their business, that's all.

Xsales are a part of this business whether you like them or not.
I am leaving for the day...so bash away I won't read it.

datatank · 08-17-2009, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveLightspeed

After 10 years, I've seen lots of companies come and go. But the ones that have made the MOST MONEY, and are STILL ACTIVE, are the ones with a long term perspective and an honest approach.

1. How do you know who makes what ?

2. Who cares if the companies are "STILL ACTIVE" ?

SomeCreep · 08-17-2009, 01:05 PM

The whole industry has gone too shit. Get used to the smell, because it's going to be this way for a while. Maybe indefinitely.

The big players can not compete legitimately with other tube sites, by building their own tube sites, because in order to be competitive, they have to steal content as well.

Unless laws change that prevent "illegal tube sites" from operating, less and less surfers will continue to pay for porn. There is still money to be made, but no matter what, the industry as a whole is in decline.

slayer69 · 08-17-2009, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boobzooka

Unfortunately I have to disagree. I think the empirical evidence suggests there's no such magic as "karma", and the lesson I take from observing humanity is that corruption usually wins. That doesn't mean you can't lead a successful AND ethical life, but those who are best at playing dirty will inevitably end up with more wealth and power, relatively speaking. Pointing to some examples of the stupid or unlucky who got what they deserved doesn't disprove the trend; often it just means they met someone meaner.

Those who play dirty will succeed in winning themselves an irrefutable edge, however those who refrain from operating outside the law stand do not run the roulette gamut of punitive reactions. Therefore those who do operate outside the laws stand a greater chance of a total collapse of all their efforts, short term gains can quickly be wiped out completely by the long term onsequences of their actions. Those who operate within the societally acceptable parameters stand no chance of such a collapse. However, those who operate at a high enough strata of society are in the unique position of making the very laws that they are trying to subvert, thusly giving them a degree of immunity from their own moral hazards.

SleazyDream · 08-17-2009, 02:15 PM

I agree with steve on this one

bbobby86 · 08-17-2009, 02:43 PM

Money is tighter now, surfers are smarter, and the industry is more "Dog eat Dog" than ever... right

ThumbLord · 08-17-2009, 03:01 PM

Totally disagree with Steve on this

_andy_ · 08-17-2009, 03:15 PM

It's not just a matter of somehow destroying tubes and filesharing sites. Even more monumental a task is dealing with the mentality of the majority of world citizens who think that porn is and should continue to be free. Even if somehow the top illegal tube sites were sued out of existence, some new ones would take their place.

SteveLightspeed · 08-17-2009, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geoGUERILLA

Fuck I am livid now.
Who died and crowned you King of Morality?!

Exploiting teenagers while still in highschool and you're mad at a tube site that sends you front door signups, or xsales...wtf?!

I didn't name anyone by name, or mention any specific business practices. But it looks like my post hit a real nerve with you and many others, both for and against.

That's good. Let the debate begin. Nothing will ever improve in the industry if we don't face our collective issues, right?

Elli · 08-17-2009, 04:12 PM

The greater the potential reward, the more people will risk to get it. Just look at Bernie Madoff. You could say karma caught up with him. But how many years did he live the high life? To say karma will eventually bring down the wicked is overly optimistic, I think.

There's a ton of immorality in business, not just in porn business. The key is to be good little Buddhists, I guess, and follow your own heart and keep your conscience clean so you can sleep at night in peace. Will that make you the most money? Probably not. But some peope say there's more to life than wealth...

gideongallery · 08-17-2009, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elli

The greater the potential reward, the more people will risk to get it. Just look at Bernie Madoff. You could say karma caught up with him. But how many years did he live the high life? To say karma will eventually bring down the wicked is overly optimistic, I think.

There's a ton of immorality in business, not just in porn business. The key is to be good little Buddhists, I guess, and follow your own heart and keep your conscience clean so you can sleep at night in peace. Will that make you the most money? Probably not. But some peope say there's more to life than wealth...

but that the point
traffic guys would think that corrupting the traffic pool with xsales/cross sales would worst thing you could do
content guys think tube sites and "Stolen content" is the worst you could do.

things like pretending the girl is active when she is no longer with the site
like pre checking cross sales
has been done by all the long term active (including lightspeed cash) that steve has the gaul to call honest

Quote:

But the ones that have made the MOST MONEY, and are STILL ACTIVE, are the ones with a long term perspective and an honest approach.

steve ignore prespective when he throws stones at the people who realize that UGC enviroment where fair uses like parody have been extended to simply putting a new subtitles on a video has changed the marketplace forever.

He is defending being a dinasaur as being honest.

will76 · 08-17-2009, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveLightspeed

There is alot of discussion about how "times have changed". Money is tighter now, surfers are smarter, and the industry is more "Dog eat Dog" than ever. After all, you have to keep up with your competitors! If they are willing to ignore common sense and rules of ethics and morality, then they have an edge, right? But is it really true?

After 10 years, I've seen lots of companies come and go. But the ones that have made the MOST MONEY, and are STILL ACTIVE, are the ones with a long term perspective and an honest approach.

You are right, companies like AFF / Cams, Brazzers, YouPorn, SexSearch, just to name a few are the ones that did the honest approach and prospered because they stayed away from spyware, supporting sites that had stolen content, etc.

will76 · 08-17-2009, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveLightspeed

To me, when I see a competitor doing something unethical or dishonest, it tells me that they are DESPERATE AND ON THE VERGE OF DIEING. Everyone is as honest as their bank account allows. Instead of following the "Can't beat them, join em" motto, rest assured in the fact that YOU ARE WINNING. Let them try to sleep well or look themselves in the mirror KNOWING THEY ARE RIPPING PEOPLE OFF. Karma will have its day, it is inevitable.

History ALWAYS repeats iteself. GREED and DESPERATION are always followed by FAILURE and COLLAPSE. Time will sort the winners and the losers. "Give someone enough rope and they will hang themselves." No one can ever tell me that lieing, cheating, or stealing is the correct way to run a business. If you need money badly enough to steal it, or assist someone else to steal it, then I feel sorry for you, but maybe this industry isn't the right one for you? There is plenty of money to be made in this business by running honestly and ethically. If you can't figure out how to do it, then get out and stop fucking things up for everyone else.

If you agree, then support the companies you know are fighting the good fight, and don't give in to the pressure.

Steve Lightspeed

Steve not sure if you saw my post I made a couple days ago, it fell off the front page pretty quick as I guess it wasn't exciting but it touches on a lot of what you are saying.... However I disagree with a couple things you said. For one, just because a company is doing dishonest things doesn't mean they are desperate. That may be the case for most of the ones you see that are starting to do shitty thing today, but the ones like AFF that were doing this 3-4 years ago when sales were strong they did it for pure greed. Here is a part of my post:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Will76

The decissions of those companies who did business with illegal tube sites and spyware companies early one was " fuck it, i'm here to make money, I want to make as much as I can and I don't care about anyone else, the industry, whatever." aka greed.

In recent times I am seeing and hearing about more and more companies that took a stand against these practices now engaging in it. Most of their motives are " everyone else is doing it, my opinion doesn't matter, etc.." but it seems apparent to me that their real reasoning is desperstion to make money. While the "everyone else is doing it" statement is true, I believe it is the current state of the economy and their business that is forcing them to try to make money to pay the bills.

3 years ago, greed made them do it.
today, desperation to stay in business.

And I suspect as the times get worse the business practices around here is going to get worse as well.

will76 · 08-17-2009, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Due

It's in the human nature to be guided by greed.
Based on your business plan or lack thereof you run your business different.

Shooting content of 18-20 year olds, legal? yes, immoral ? many would say yes, damaging the industry on long term? likely no, sometimes yes (look at regulations imposed during the last 10 years)
Cross sales, legal? yes, immoral ? many would say yes, damaging the industry on long term? very likely, OR it can lead to some super regulations that may be good for the long term players in the industry.

I always let others run their business as they want and make sure I run my own business in such manner that I can sleep well at nights, and it works well, I sleep well at night, in planes, when watching TV.....

There is a HUGE difference between shooting girls that are 18-21 years old and doing a pre checked cross sale vs profiting off of stolen content, buying traffic from spyware companies, and illegaly charging people's cards by hidden cross sales, not allowing them to cancel etc..

Huge difference. I think most responable people can draw the line between good business and bad business. Usually it involved theft of some compacity, whether its from shaving sales, to profiting off of stolen content, stolen traffic / sales, to stealing money off of customer's credit cards...

Mutt · 08-17-2009, 07:32 PM

shooting 18 to 20 year old girls is immoral

and shooting 21 year olds is somehow not, like there's this magical date of maturity when it becomes a wise informed choice on their part

industry filled with outright morons and bigger hypocrites than a born again TV evangelist caught in a hotel room with prostitutes

dyna mo · 08-17-2009, 09:22 PM

the point is nature doesn't have a moral compass and take a karmic shit on whoever doesn't follow it.

Agent 488 · 08-17-2009, 09:32 PM

the porn industry really needs an ethics panel.

it could consist of spammers, pimps, prostitutes and organized crime.

08-17-2009, 11:24 AM	#54
xxweekxx Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 6,780	Heres what i will say, Nothing like Karma, etc.. the greedy people always win.. I know lots of guys who are rich, and i only found out they are rich because they fucked consumer over one way or another... Do this, name 30 TOP rich guys in this biz..How many of them are not shady, meaning no cross sales, hidden joins, spam, etc, u can probably count on one hand. I found out from my experience that the more shady/blackhat you are willing to go, the more money you'll make.. this is how life works.. You could have a nice site you promote yourself, and lets say you get 50 joins/day @ $30, thats $1,500, but all of a sudden you can add $100 in extra crossale, and lets say 20% fall for it, you just doubled your income therotetically.. I noticed morality goes out the window after $1,000/day, meaning if you tell someone listen, i can show you a way to make $2,000 a DAY, but its immoral, Legal yes, but very shady, 99% of people would do it.. If i started a new thread and said hey guys, theres a new way to make money, ull make $2,000 a day, its legal but its very shady and you will be fucking over the consumer 100%, heck even ripping them off, but its legal and no jail... lol.. pretty much everyone here will be like share the method.. i wanna do it, etc.lol As they say, the only thing stopping people from robbing banks is jail time __________________ _________________ I am the best Last edited by xxweekxx; 08-17-2009 at 11:27 AM..

08-17-2009, 12:08 PM	#56
Sid70 Downshifter Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Road trip Posts: 16,413	if i had 500k+ i would leave for Goa, but im forced to take this: __________________ Русня, идите нахуй! Last edited by Sid70; 08-17-2009 at 12:10 PM..

08-17-2009, 12:10 PM	#58
CamJack Old School Webmaster Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NY Posts: 1,334	I thought you gave up on GFY Steve? Wasn't your business built off spam anyways? Get off your high horse man. Nothing worse than a newbie dinosaur is this biz rubbing salt in people's wounds. __________________ Skype: promote.promote [email protected] Last edited by CamJack; 08-17-2009 at 12:12 PM..

08-17-2009, 12:19 PM	#59
CamJack Old School Webmaster Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NY Posts: 1,334	Fuck I am livid now. Who died and crowned you King of Morality?! Exploiting teenagers while still in highschool and you're mad at a tube site that sends you front door signups, or xsales...wtf?! __________________ Skype: promote.promote [email protected]

08-17-2009, 12:36 PM	#64
CamJack Old School Webmaster Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NY Posts: 1,334	We are trying to drum up business. Simple. I am not posting on GFY how I am this poster boy for business morality or telling people how to run their business, that's all. Xsales are a part of this business whether you like them or not. I am leaving for the day...so bash away I won't read it. __________________ Skype: promote.promote [email protected] Last edited by CamJack; 08-17-2009 at 12:38 PM..

08-17-2009, 11:28 AM	#55
BV wtf Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Bikini State, FL USA Posts: 10,914	If you think about it and have been in this business for 10+ years, so many companies, even big ones,have come and gone. Credit is due for the sites and companies that have been here since the get go. Sometimes I think this industry glamorizes the"Live fast, die young" ideology. Crazy Personally I feel everything will work out for those that love what they do and do what they love. There will be no more grand slams unless it involves some sort of someone getting fucked over. So if you lay down with dogs, expect to wake up with fleas.

08-17-2009, 01:05 PM	#66
SomeCreep :glugglug Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Where the Wild Things Are Posts: 26,118	The whole industry has gone too shit. Get used to the smell, because it's going to be this way for a while. Maybe indefinitely. The big players can not compete legitimately with other tube sites, by building their own tube sites, because in order to be competitive, they have to steal content as well. Unless laws change that prevent "illegal tube sites" from operating, less and less surfers will continue to pay for porn. There is still money to be made, but no matter what, the industry as a whole is in decline. __________________ Webair Hosting I use and recommend Webair for hosting.

08-17-2009, 02:15 PM	#68
SleazyDream I'm here for SPORT Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phone # (401) 285-0696 Posts: 41,470	I agree with steve on this one __________________ This dog, is dog, a dog, good dog, way dog, to dog, keep dog, an dog, idiot dog, busy dog, for dog, 20 dog, seconds dog! Now read without the word dog.

08-17-2009, 02:43 PM	#69
bbobby86 partners.sexier.com Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 11,926	Money is tighter now, surfers are smarter, and the industry is more "Dog eat Dog" than ever... right __________________

08-17-2009, 03:01 PM	#70
ThumbLord Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Aruba Posts: 1,932	Totally disagree with Steve on this __________________ We Sell Domains \| ThumbLords \| ICQ 128106905 \| TubeLords \| Traffic Holder \| eRoken

08-17-2009, 03:15 PM	#71
_andy_ Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 487	It's not just a matter of somehow destroying tubes and filesharing sites. Even more monumental a task is dealing with the mentality of the majority of world citizens who think that porn is and should continue to be free. Even if somehow the top illegal tube sites were sued out of existence, some new ones would take their place.

08-17-2009, 04:12 PM	#73
Elli Reach for those stars! Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 17,991	The greater the potential reward, the more people will risk to get it. Just look at Bernie Madoff. You could say karma caught up with him. But how many years did he live the high life? To say karma will eventually bring down the wicked is overly optimistic, I think. There's a ton of immorality in business, not just in porn business. The key is to be good little Buddhists, I guess, and follow your own heart and keep your conscience clean so you can sleep at night in peace. Will that make you the most money? Probably not. But some peope say there's more to life than wealth... __________________ Make More Money with Cams and Dating at FFN.com! email: [email protected]

08-17-2009, 07:32 PM	#78
Mutt Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 34,431	shooting 18 to 20 year old girls is immoral and shooting 21 year olds is somehow not, like there's this magical date of maturity when it becomes a wise informed choice on their part industry filled with outright morons and bigger hypocrites than a born again TV evangelist caught in a hotel room with prostitutes __________________ I moved my sites to Vacares Hosting. I've saved money, my hair is thicker, lost some weight too! Thanks Sly!

08-17-2009, 09:22 PM	#79
dyna mo The People's Post Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: invisible 7-11 Posts: 63,910	the point is nature doesn't have a moral compass and take a karmic shit on whoever doesn't follow it.

08-17-2009, 09:32 PM	#80
Agent 488 Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 22,511	the porn industry really needs an ethics panel. it could consist of spammers, pimps, prostitutes and organized crime.