Ouch! looks like the ride is over for Lord obama and his out of control spending - Page 4 - GoFuckYourself.com

TurboAngel · 11-05-2009, 07:50 AM

New page?

TheDoc · 11-05-2009, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Demon

Wow, what an idiot. First, the world is you're. Second, when one initiates the bailouts, one buts the country into debt. Bush's debt when he left was close to 500 billion. Obama's right now is bordering 1.5 trillion and another 8 trillion when he's done. You lose, move along.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Demon

Omg no I made a typo!!!! Using your idiotic logic, anythin you say is irrelevant and without credibility because you're a porn peddler. ROFL what a clown.

Did you say the WORLD is You're? World?

Simply put... you got shut down and now YOU posting, stupid shit... oh wait, another typo - let's pull out the typo police.

Here is proof of Bush's trillion dollar debts. And this doesn't even factor in his war of lies.

$30 billion
Bear Stearns 2008 JP Morgan Chase and the federal government bailed out Bear Stearns when the financial giant neared collapse. JP Morgan purchased Bear Stearns for $236 million; the Federal Reserve provided a $30 billion credit line to ensure the sale could move forward.

$400 billion
Fannie Mae / Freddie Mac 2008 On Sep. 7, 2008, Fannie and Freddie were essentially nationalized: placed under the conservatorship of the Federal Housing Finance Agency. Under the terms of the rescue, the Treasury has invested billions to cover the companies' losses. Initially, Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson put a ceiling of $100 billion for investments in each company. In February, Tim Geithner raised it to $200 billion. The money was authorized by the Housing and Economic Recovery Act of 2008.

$180 billion
American International Group (A.I.G.) 2008 On four separate occasions, the government has offered aid to AIG to keep it from collapsing, rising from an initial $85 billion credit line from the Federal Reserve to a combined $180 billion effort between the Treasury ($70 billion) and Fed ($110 billion). ($40 billion of the Treasury’s commitment is also included in the TARP total.)

$25 billion
Auto Industry 2008 In late September 2008, Congress approved a more than $630 billion spending bill, which included a measure for $25 billion in loans to the auto industry. These low-interest loans are intended to aid the industry in its push to build more fuel-efficient, environmentally-friendly vehicles. The Detroit 3 -- General Motors, Ford and Chrysler -- will be the primary beneficiaries.

$700 billion
Troubled Asset Relief Program 2008 In October 2008, Congress passed the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act, which authorized the Treasury Department to spend $700 billion to combat the financial crisis. Treasury has been doling out the money via an alphabet soup of different programs. Here’s our running tally of companies getting TARP funds.

$280 billion
Citigroup 2008 Citigroup received a $25 billion investment through the TARP in October and another $20 billion in November. (That $45 billion is also included in the TARP total.) Additional aid has come in the form of government guarantees to limit losses from a $301 billion pool of toxic assets. In addition to the Treasury's $5 billion commitment, the FDIC has committed $10 billion and the Federal Reserve up to about $220 billion.

Bank of America 2009 Bank of America has received $45 billion through the TARP, which includes $10 billion originally meant for Merrill Lynch. (That $45 billion is also included in the TARP total.) In addition, the government has made guarantees to limit losses from a $118 billion pool of troubled assets. In addition to the Treasury's $7.5 billion commitment, the FDIC has committed $2.5 billion and the Federal Reserve up to $87.2 billion.

TurboAngel · 11-05-2009, 07:54 AM

So Doc what are we supposed to do?

12clicks · 11-05-2009, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Richard_

so when the paid professionals say that a real fear for a lot of Americans is going bankrupt due to medical costs, they are lying?

yes they are.

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Richard_

I'm begging you to do the research yourself in regards to the Socialized Medicine. That line of 'anyone can walk into a hospital' is one of the very reasons your current system is obsolete. You can't budget for costs that you can't predict, and leaving millions uninsured with however many more millions in aliens, you are spending a LOT more than what you should be

it's good business sense. i'm having a hard time figuring out why the republicans aren't getting that

those of us opposed to government run healthcare (its not just republicans or the democrats wouldn't be worried about voting for it and being voted out of office for it) are not against everyone being able to get healthcare. We're just smart enough to know that there is NOTHING the government does that can't be done better by the private sector.
V/A hospitals- grossly mismanaged with billions wasted
post office- grossly mismanaged with billions wasted
social security- grossly mismanaged with billions wasted
medicaid/medicare- grossly mismanaged with billions wasted

but now we want to put 275 million Americans who already have healthcare under the government's control because 30 million are uninsured? yeah, thats an intelligent way to go.

also, those of us intelligent enough to understand that a healthy United States can not run a 9 trillion dollar deficit want to see LESS government money spent, not more.

This healthcare "crisis" is a lie. its no more a crisis than it was 1, 5, or 10 years ago.
the "more people than ever don't have healthcare" hysteria is a LIE. People don't have jobs. fix the fucking economy.

lastly, this healthcare bill is a LIE. It has not ever been passed and they are already lying about the cost. The bill relies on what, 300 billion in medicaid/medicare cuts that will be voted on separately at a later date?
my fellow Americans, clueless as you are, wake up! congress will NEVER pass those cuts. then our lord obama will trot out and say,"my plan was good but the republicans wouldn't vote for my wise medicaid reform bill"
The lying lord obama said he wouldn't sign a healthcare bill if it raised the deficit by one cent.
Are you THAT stupid? the healthcare bill (with its fantasy land medicaid cuts) will cost 900 billion dollars over 10yrs. in 10yrs. the deficit (by our lord's and the CBO's estimates) will by 9 trillion dollars. it currently is a little over 1 trillion dollars. Are you REALLY that gullible?

intelligent Americans understand that when your credit cards are maxed out and beyond your ability to pay more than the intrest on them, you don't refurnish your house by applying for new credit cards.

I just don't understand what the unintelligent Americans are thinking...............

TheDoc · 11-05-2009, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TurboAngel

So Doc what are we supposed to do?

The people were greatly against the bailouts when Bush did them, without question - a majority. That didn't stop the Gov though, so really... I have no idea.

Vote different people in, if it happens again? I'm not up for a revolution, I already did my fighting.

Other than, make sure people have the historical facts correct and get people to stop spewing lies..

The Demon · 11-05-2009, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Did you say the WORLD is You're? World?

Simply put... you got shut down and now YOU posting, stupid shit... oh wait, another typo - let's pull out the typo police.

Here is proof of Bush's trillion dollar debts. And this doesn't even factor in his war of lies.

$30 billion
Bear Stearns 2008 JP Morgan Chase and the federal government bailed out Bear Stearns when the financial giant neared collapse. JP Morgan purchased Bear Stearns for $236 million; the Federal Reserve provided a $30 billion credit line to ensure the sale could move forward.

$400 billion
Fannie Mae / Freddie Mac 2008 On Sep. 7, 2008, Fannie and Freddie were essentially nationalized: placed under the conservatorship of the Federal Housing Finance Agency. Under the terms of the rescue, the Treasury has invested billions to cover the companies' losses. Initially, Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson put a ceiling of $100 billion for investments in each company. In February, Tim Geithner raised it to $200 billion. The money was authorized by the Housing and Economic Recovery Act of 2008.

$180 billion
American International Group (A.I.G.) 2008 On four separate occasions, the government has offered aid to AIG to keep it from collapsing, rising from an initial $85 billion credit line from the Federal Reserve to a combined $180 billion effort between the Treasury ($70 billion) and Fed ($110 billion). ($40 billion of the Treasury?s commitment is also included in the TARP total.)

$25 billion
Auto Industry 2008 In late September 2008, Congress approved a more than $630 billion spending bill, which included a measure for $25 billion in loans to the auto industry. These low-interest loans are intended to aid the industry in its push to build more fuel-efficient, environmentally-friendly vehicles. The Detroit 3 -- General Motors, Ford and Chrysler -- will be the primary beneficiaries.

$700 billion
Troubled Asset Relief Program 2008 In October 2008, Congress passed the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act, which authorized the Treasury Department to spend $700 billion to combat the financial crisis. Treasury has been doling out the money via an alphabet soup of different programs. Here?s our running tally of companies getting TARP funds.

$280 billion
Citigroup 2008 Citigroup received a $25 billion investment through the TARP in October and another $20 billion in November. (That $45 billion is also included in the TARP total.) Additional aid has come in the form of government guarantees to limit losses from a $301 billion pool of toxic assets. In addition to the Treasury's $5 billion commitment, the FDIC has committed $10 billion and the Federal Reserve up to about $220 billion.

Bank of America 2009 Bank of America has received $45 billion through the TARP, which includes $10 billion originally meant for Merrill Lynch. (That $45 billion is also included in the TARP total.) In addition, the government has made guarantees to limit losses from a $118 billion pool of troubled assets. In addition to the Treasury's $7.5 billion commitment, the FDIC has committed $2.5 billion and the Federal Reserve up to $87.2 billion.

How stupid are you seriously? I mean it's mind boggling. Do you know the difference between "creating" and "initiating"? These are Obama's debts because he initiated the plans, after Bush asked him if he wanted to or not. You really should quit while you're behind, this is just sad.

TurboAngel · 11-05-2009, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

The people were greatly against the bailouts when Bush did them, without question - a majority. That didn't stop the Gov though, so really... I have no idea.

Vote different people in, if it happens again? I'm not up for a revolution, I already did my fighting.

Other than, make sure people have the historical facts correct and get people to stop spewing lies..

I wish we could have gotten someone other than him in but now we're stuck and there isn't much we can do until it's time to vote.

The Demon · 11-05-2009, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TurboAngel

I wish we could have gotten someone other than him in but now we're stuck and there isn't much we can do until it's time to vote.

It's looking more and more like the republicans are going to control everything the Democrats are controlling now, come midterm elections and then 2012 presidency. The American people switch sides faster than informants.

TheDoc · 11-05-2009, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Demon

How stupid are you seriously? I mean it's mind boggling. Do you know the difference between "creating" and "initiating"? These are Obama's debts because he initiated the plans, after Bush asked him if he wanted to or not. You really should quit while you're behind, this is just sad.

How did Obama Initiate a bailout before he even won the election? You may want to look at the dates and truly, stop being stupid..

That's some l33t super powers now..

TheDoc · 11-05-2009, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TurboAngel

I wish we could have gotten someone other than him in but now we're stuck and there isn't much we can do until it's time to vote.

I voted for Ron Paul.... no idea wtf the rest of the Country was thinking.

But if I had to pick Obama vs. McCain and crew... Give me Obama any day of the week.

So far Obama hasn't been around long enough or done enough, to make me go agaisnt him and his policies. That doesn't mean I agree with everything he does or says.

But I'm not going to call him a failure either, he hasn't failed and I don't think he will.

The Demon · 11-05-2009, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

How did Obama Initiate a bailout before he even won the election? You may want to look at the dates and truly, stop being stupid..

That's some l33t super powers now..

You may want to look at my link and my quotes before you continue posting because it's looking bad for you.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...011300861.html

http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...,5840688.story

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...011300861.html

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...obamas_bailout

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13704.html

Andddd....

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13631.html

I would post more but I think the people on here get the idea. Too easy.

TheDoc · 11-05-2009, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Demon

You may want to look at my link and my quotes before you continue posting because it's looking bad for you.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...011300861.html

http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...,5840688.story

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...011300861.html

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...obamas_bailout

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13704.html

Andddd....

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13631.html

Ok? Yeah those are proposals to overhaul, change, add, move.. what was already going.

You seem to be confused.. let me quote us again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

The mass stimulus plans, were started under Bush. Dumb ass..

And your stupid ass said...

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Demon

Sorry, stimulus programs were Obama's thing.

And based on the dates on the bailouts and stimulus plans, Obama wasn't even elected yet.

Anyway..... back to coding.

Babaganoosh · 11-05-2009, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Demon

You may want to look at my link and my quotes before you continue posting because it's looking bad for you.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...011300861.html

http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...,5840688.story

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...011300861.html

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...obamas_bailout

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13704.html

Andddd....

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13631.html

I would post more but I think the people on here get the idea. Too easy.

Just skimming the last few pages I have to ask you honestly if you're mentally ill, retarded, stupid or if you're just trolling. I haven't seen so many inaccuracies in one place since Bush declared victory. If you're just trolling then well played, sir. Well played.

The Demon · 11-05-2009, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Ok? Yeah those are proposals to overhaul, change, add, move.. what was already going.

You seem to be confused.. let me quote us again.

And your stupid ass said...

And based on the dates on the bailouts and stimulus plans, Obama wasn't even elected yet.

Anyway..... back to coding.

Yes, you said Bush started the stimulus plan, and I said they were Obama's thing, as in he initiated enough to dwarf Bush's debt. You're incompetent.

_Richard_ · 11-05-2009, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12clicks

yes they are.

those of us opposed to government run healthcare (its not just republicans or the democrats wouldn't be worried about voting for it and being voted out of office for it) are not against everyone being able to get healthcare. We're just smart enough to know that there is NOTHING the government does that can't be done better by the private sector.
V/A hospitals- grossly mismanaged with billions wasted
post office- grossly mismanaged with billions wasted
social security- grossly mismanaged with billions wasted
medicaid/medicare- grossly mismanaged with billions wasted

but now we want to put 275 million Americans who already have healthcare under the government's control because 30 million are uninsured? yeah, thats an intelligent way to go.

also, those of us intelligent enough to understand that a healthy United States can not run a 9 trillion dollar deficit want to see LESS government money spent, not more.

This healthcare "crisis" is a lie. its no more a crisis than it was 1, 5, or 10 years ago.
the "more people than ever don't have healthcare" hysteria is a LIE. People don't have jobs. fix the fucking economy.

lastly, this healthcare bill is a LIE. It has not ever been passed and they are already lying about the cost. The bill relies on what, 300 billion in medicaid/medicare cuts that will be voted on separately at a later date?
my fellow Americans, clueless as you are, wake up! congress will NEVER pass those cuts. then our lord obama will trot out and say,"my plan was good but the republicans wouldn't vote for my wise medicaid reform bill"
The lying lord obama said he wouldn't sign a healthcare bill if it raised the deficit by one cent.
Are you THAT stupid? the healthcare bill (with its fantasy land medicaid cuts) will cost 900 billion dollars over 10yrs. in 10yrs. the deficit (by our lord's and the CBO's estimates) will by 9 trillion dollars. it currently is a little over 1 trillion dollars. Are you REALLY that gullible?

intelligent Americans understand that when your credit cards are maxed out and beyond your ability to pay more than the intrest on them, you don't refurnish your house by applying for new credit cards.

I just don't understand what the unintelligent Americans are thinking...............

here is a summary of the impact of medical costs upon bankrupt Americans. 60% is a hell of a big number to be simply a lie.

http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml (didn't find out the party loyalty of the thinktank, if there is a problem i will find a republican fact sheet)

and that deficiet number is based directly on the current recession and costs of stimulus. I know you like blaming Obama solely for that, but since it was a agreed upon course of action by every major financial government on the planet, you can't simply lay all the blame at Obamas feet..

You could in fact lay it directly at the feet of the federal reserve. You know, the peeps that lost the trillions of dollars?

The Demon · 11-05-2009, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babaganoosh

Just skimming the last few pages I have to ask you honestly if you're mentally ill, retarded, stupid or if you're just trolling. I haven't seen so many inaccuracies in one place since Bush declared victory. If you're just trolling then well played, sir. Well played.

ROFLROFLROF.. Inaccurate according to you? I didn't know members of GFY were the authorities on accuracy ROFL... Speaking of trolling, this was the perfect post. Thanks for the laugh.

The Demon · 11-05-2009, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Richard_

here is a summary of the impact of medical costs upon bankrupt Americans. 60% is a hell of a big number to be simply a lie.

http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml (didn't find out the party loyalty of the thinktank, if there is a problem i will find a republican fact sheet)

and that deficiet number is based directly on the current recession and costs of stimulus. I know you like blaming Obama solely for that, but since it was a agreed upon course of action by every major financial government on the planet, you can't simply lay all the blame at Obamas feet..

You could in fact lay it directly at the feet of the federal reserve. You know, the peeps that lost the trillions of dollars?

The FED has been the biggest fault of US recessions since its creation in 1913. However, it was Obama's choice to keep on Bernanke and it was Obama's choice to circulate Bush's stimulus plans. Nobody is blaming everything on Obama but if people want to throw the blame at Bush, it goes both ways. Obama's deficit spending is unprecedented.

_Richard_ · 11-05-2009, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Demon

The FED has been the biggest fault of US recessions since its creation in 1913. However, it was Obama's choice to keep on Bernanke and it was Obama's choice to circulate Bush's stimulus plans. Nobody is blaming everything on Obama but if people want to throw the blame at Bush, it goes both ways. Obama's deficit spending is unprecedented.

it's unprecedented because this form of economic recovery has never been tried. If i had to hazard a guess, I'd say this is some sort of arrangement pushed by the Chinese due to the socialist flavour it has, and forced upon western powers because the Chinese hold you guys by the balls in a very tight financial grip.

I think saying that Obama 'chose to keep Bernanke' is slightly bold. I don't think it would be as easy as saying 'cya' in the middle of a massive financial crisis etc

TheDoc · 11-05-2009, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babaganoosh

Just skimming the last few pages I have to ask you honestly if you're mentally ill, retarded, stupid or if you're just trolling. I haven't seen so many inaccuracies in one place since Bush declared victory. If you're just trolling then well played, sir. Well played.

He is more of a tool than a troll.... trolls normally keep up, this guy is simply an idiot.

Joshua G · 11-05-2009, 10:49 AM

These 4 pages of debate is worthless.

bottom line is that congress is controlled by wealthy special interests, & our government no longer functions on behalf of the voters. It functions only for big corporations, big military, & big government. It means nothing which idealogy is in charge, because they are both whores to the money class.

_Richard_ · 11-05-2009, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshgirls

These 4 pages of debate is worthless.

bottom line is that congress is controlled by wealthy special interests, & our government no longer functions on behalf of the voters. It functions only for big corporations, big military, & big government. It means nothing which idealogy is in charge, because they are both whores to the money class.

our parents should have listened to Eisenhower

The Demon · 11-05-2009, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

He is more of a tool than a troll.... trolls normally keep up, this guy is simply an idiot.

You gotta love this forum clown. His constant embarrassment brings laughs to other members. Keep it up bozo, we need our entertainment!

12clicks · 11-05-2009, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Richard_

here is a summary of the impact of medical costs upon bankrupt Americans. 60% is a hell of a big number to be simply a lie.

http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml (didn't find out the party loyalty of the thinktank, if there is a problem i will find a republican fact sheet)

you understand that you linked to a lobbiest's webpage and not a governmental or journalistic one, right?

here's a more accurate website:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...010303617.html
odd how medical costs aren't mentioned once. 60% isn't something the washington post would miss.
so yeah. its simply a lie.

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Richard_

and that deficiet number is based directly on the current recession and costs of stimulus. I know you like blaming Obama solely for that, but since it was a agreed upon course of action by every major financial government on the planet, you can't simply lay all the blame at Obamas feet..

no it isn't. where did you get THAT fact, michele obama's official website?

12clicks · 11-05-2009, 11:17 AM

we are NOT spending 8 trillion dollars over the next 10yrs on stimulus.
you're simply wrong.

Daddy Big Nuts · 11-05-2009, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshgirls

These 4 pages of debate is worthless.

bottom line is that congress is controlled by wealthy special interests, & our government no longer functions on behalf of the voters. It functions only for big corporations, big military, & big government. It means nothing which idealogy is in charge, because they are both whores to the money class.

got that right.....seriously does anyone want to admit that they are part of either party? They both suck. I hope that we vote all of them out.

_Richard_ · 11-05-2009, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12clicks

you understand that you linked to a lobbiest's webpage and not a governmental or journalistic one, right?

here's a more accurate website:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...010303617.html
odd how medical costs aren't mentioned once. 60% isn't something the washington post would miss.
so yeah. its simply a lie.

no it isn't. where did you get THAT fact, michele obama's official website?

yea that's why i put the disclaimer. The link i put up is the national coalition of healthcare.

here is a link from another group: http://www.pnhp.org/new_bankruptcy_s...uptcy-2009.pdf

These are doctors and groups that need facts in order to prove what they're talking about. If you're going to dismiss these out of hand, there is no further point on us talking about it. I asked you look this up yourself from sources that you can believe. These lobbyists, doctors, would stand to lose money if Socialized medicine was introduced wouldn't they? seems odd that they'd be trying to implement it.

no it was an opinion based on what i have heard about Canadas deficiet and action plan:

http://www.actionplan.gc.ca/eng/index.asp

London, UK action plan:

http://www.london.gov.uk/mayor/economy/recovery/

Germany and France refusing for a global action plan and opting for independant action plans:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...el-g20-economy

fatfoo · 11-05-2009, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12clicks

do what the people want, then you won't need protection from them.

Makes sense.

12clicks · 11-05-2009, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Richard_

yea that's why i put the disclaimer. The link i put up is the national coalition of healthcare.

here is a link from another group: http://www.pnhp.org/new_bankruptcy_s...uptcy-2009.pdf

These are doctors and groups that need facts in order to prove what they're talking about. If you're going to dismiss these out of hand, there is no further point on us talking about it. I asked you look this up yourself from sources that you can believe. These lobbyists, doctors, would stand to lose money if Socialized medicine was introduced wouldn't they? seems odd that they'd be trying to implement it.

METHODS: We surveyed a random national sample of 2314 bankruptcy filers in 2007, abstracted their court
records, and interviewed 1032 of them.

interview:
"I didn't go bankrupt because I misspent my money, it was because I was sick"
um, yeah. they interview failures and gave them an appealing out, "medical reasons"

Using a conservative definition, 62.1% of all bankruptcies in 2007 were medical; 92% of these
medical debtors had medical debts over $5000.................Most medical debtors were well educated, owned homes, and had middle-class occupations.

uh, well educated middle class does not go bankrupt over $5k in debt. get it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Richard_

no it was an opinion based on what i have heard about Canadas deficiet and action plan:

http://www.actionplan.gc.ca/eng/index.asp

London, UK action plan:

http://www.london.gov.uk/mayor/economy/recovery/

Germany and France refusing for a global action plan and opting for independant action plans:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...el-g20-economy

translation: you're right, 12clicks, the US is NOT spending 8 trillion dollars on stimulus, I clearly misspoke.

RogerV · 11-05-2009, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12clicks

yes they are.

those of us opposed to government run healthcare (its not just republicans or the democrats wouldn't be worried about voting for it and being voted out of office for it) are not against everyone being able to get healthcare. We're just smart enough to know that there is NOTHING the government does that can't be done better by the private sector.
V/A hospitals- grossly mismanaged with billions wasted
post office- grossly mismanaged with billions wasted
social security- grossly mismanaged with billions wasted
medicaid/medicare- grossly mismanaged with billions wasted

but now we want to put 275 million Americans who already have healthcare under the government's control because 30 million are uninsured? yeah, thats an intelligent way to go.

also, those of us intelligent enough to understand that a healthy United States can not run a 9 trillion dollar deficit want to see LESS government money spent, not more.

This healthcare "crisis" is a lie. its no more a crisis than it was 1, 5, or 10 years ago.
the "more people than ever don't have healthcare" hysteria is a LIE. People don't have jobs. fix the fucking economy.

lastly, this healthcare bill is a LIE. It has not ever been passed and they are already lying about the cost. The bill relies on what, 300 billion in medicaid/medicare cuts that will be voted on separately at a later date?
my fellow Americans, clueless as you are, wake up! congress will NEVER pass those cuts. then our lord obama will trot out and say,"my plan was good but the republicans wouldn't vote for my wise medicaid reform bill"
The lying lord obama said he wouldn't sign a healthcare bill if it raised the deficit by one cent.
Are you THAT stupid? the healthcare bill (with its fantasy land medicaid cuts) will cost 900 billion dollars over 10yrs. in 10yrs. the deficit (by our lord's and the CBO's estimates) will by 9 trillion dollars. it currently is a little over 1 trillion dollars. Are you REALLY that gullible?

intelligent Americans understand that when your credit cards are maxed out and beyond your ability to pay more than the intrest on them, you don't refurnish your house by applying for new credit cards.

I just don't understand what the unintelligent Americans are thinking...............

The private sectors are the ones who fucked everything up because of greed.

Yet I still get my mail like clock work and its goverment run

spider_x · 11-05-2009, 12:15 PM

If I was Obama and I wanted to keep my word I would promote the idea of getting off your lazy ass and starting your own mom and pop health insurance/health care business. If all kinds of americans started doing this there would be more job creation,stimulated economy, and self-sufficient health care. Screw the government. Mom and pop should be reinventing their own GM motors too. Need to stop turning to the state for help. Need to quit bailing out and DIY. America needs to transform into a new powerful machine run by the people for the people. The revolution.

The Porn Nerd · 11-05-2009, 12:16 PM

Obviously these two points need to be made AGAIN, so here ya go - consider this a Public Service Announcement:

1. MEDICARE FOR EVERYBODY. Problem solved.
2. ANYONE who likes, supports and admires George Bush or ANY Republican politician these days - is evidence of a major character flaw in their personality.

seeandsee · 11-05-2009, 12:17 PM

obama will save world

12clicks · 11-05-2009, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RogerV

The private sectors are the ones who fucked everything up because of greed.

Yet I still get my mail like clock work and its goverment run

Quote:

Originally Posted by Misterpeabody

Obviously these two points need to be made AGAIN, so here ya go - consider this a Public Service Announcement:

1. MEDICARE FOR EVERYBODY. Problem solved.
2. ANYONE who likes, supports and admires George Bush or ANY Republican politician these days - is evidence of a major character flaw in their personality.

well, I think we know which children will be repeating the 2nd grade.

dyna mo · 11-05-2009, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RogerV

The private sectors are the ones who fucked everything up because of greed.

Yet I still get my mail like clock work and its goverment run

classic!

RogerV · 11-05-2009, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshgirls

These 4 pages of debate is worthless.

bottom line is that congress is controlled by wealthy special interests, & our government no longer functions on behalf of the voters. It functions only for big corporations, big military, & big government. It means nothing which idealogy is in charge, because they are both whores to the money class.

I agree it doesnt have to do with either party since both are in the back pockets of big business now. Greed in Goverment and big business have forgotten about middle class or dont care. Middle class is the heart of america and built it.

Without Middle class we are just another 3rd world country.

We need to bring jobs back to America

_Richard_ · 11-05-2009, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12clicks

METHODS: We surveyed a random national sample of 2314 bankruptcy filers in 2007, abstracted their court
records, and interviewed 1032 of them.

interview:
"I didn't go bankrupt because I misspent my money, it was because I was sick"
um, yeah. they interview failures and gave them an appealing out, "medical reasons"

Using a conservative definition, 62.1% of all bankruptcies in 2007 were medical; 92% of these
medical debtors had medical debts over $5000.................Most medical debtors were well educated, owned homes, and had middle-class occupations.

uh, well educated middle class does not go bankrupt over $5k in debt. get it?

translation: you're right, 12clicks, the US is NOT spending 8 trillion dollars on stimulus, I clearly misspoke.

12clicks.. you used 1 of the 3 methods they used to gain this information. obviously you're amusing me and i thank you for it.

I didn't say they'd be spending trillions directly on the stimulus or that the stimulus was the direct cause. I said due to the recession, fallout from that, as well as many other factors now and in the future that number is created.

Canada has been posting surplus' for years and they finally posted a deficit for the next 4 years or whatever. The thing is our politicians and citizens seem to understand why that may be...

baddog · 11-05-2009, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RogerV

We need to bring jobs back to America

I think, what you mean to say is, we need to create new jobs. There are a lot more unemployed people than there are jobs to do. That is the thing about technology . . . it is a time saver which reduces the need for human input.

I thought our lord and savior promised new jobs. He had better get on it or start fining people for reproducing instead of giving them additional tax credits.

12clicks · 11-05-2009, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Richard_

12clicks.. you used 1 of the 3 methods they used to gain this information. obviously you're amusing me and i thank you for it.

incorrect. again. do you know the meaning of the word "and" that report does not say "or" it says "and" they specifically used the method I pointed out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Richard_

I didn't say they'd be spending trillions directly on the stimulus or that the stimulus was the direct cause.

here's what you said. liar:

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Richard_

and that deficiet number is based directly on the current recession and costs of stimulus.

TheDoc · 11-05-2009, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

I think, what you mean to say is, we need to create new jobs. There are a lot more unemployed people than there are jobs to do. That is the thing about technology . . . it is a time saver which reduces the need for human input.

I thought our lord and savior promised new jobs. He had better get on it or start fining people for reproducing instead of giving them additional tax credits.

He did promise new jobs, and new jobs have been created.

He didn't say millions of jobs would be created in a few months... he said, his 'goal' is to create OR save, 3 million+ jobs by the end of NEXT year.

Let's give the man a chance... after all he is moving forward.

RogerV · 11-05-2009, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12clicks

well, I think we know which children will be repeating the 2nd grade.

At least I got past 1st grade

now let me explain it in 2nd grade Terminology

2nd grade has been good to me... I've been making lots of money in 2nd grade why change what?s working for me.

As far as government goes dem or rep. they are still stuck in 1st grade at least I realize if things aren?t working it?s time to make big changes. Both sides are afraid or don?t care since they live in a bubble or have tunnel vision.

When I was in 1st grade I realized my ship was sinking and I had to revamp everything by cutting cost and trying new things which is ongoing. Now the ship is in a new direction that looks bright

baddog · 11-05-2009, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

... after all he is moving forward.

RogerV · 11-05-2009, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

I think, what you mean to say is, we need to create new jobs. There are a lot more unemployed people than there are jobs to do. That is the thing about technology . . . it is a time saver which reduces the need for human input.

I thought our lord and savior promised new jobs. He had better get on it or start fining people for reproducing instead of giving them additional tax credits.

Actually we need to do both create more jobs and stop outsourcing everything and bring the jobs back to America. From customer service to production. Top 1% of the money makers need to stop being so greedy and spread some of the wealth again or they won?t have anyone left to buy their products

cykoe6 · 11-05-2009, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterPeabody

2. ANYONE who likes, supports and admires George Bush or ANY Republican politician these days - is evidence of a major character flaw in their personality.

Hummmm you may have a good point there. I am an evil fascist bloodthirsty monster and I vote Republican. Perhaps there is a correlation.

RogerV · 11-05-2009, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

He did promise new jobs, and new jobs have been created.

He didn't say millions of jobs would be created in a few months... he said, his 'goal' is to create OR save, 3 million+ jobs by the end of NEXT year.

Let's give the man a chance... after all he is moving forward.

I agree he's got 4 years we need to at least give him a chance

12clicks · 11-05-2009, 01:10 PM

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/...t_debacle.html

The coming debt debacle: Top economist says President Obama must slash spending, now

New federal budget numbers released last week by the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) ought to be a game-changer for Congress and the Obama administration. Even before the new estimates, opinion polls revealed serious concerns of most Americans about large deficits and exploding federal debt. Those concerns will only intensify now, because the new estimates show that the budget problem has worsened considerably: The federal deficit will be $2 trillion higher than earlier estimates over the next decade, bringing the debt increase under the administration's budget policy to $10 trillion.

Adding to the worry is that this large $2 trillion upward revision took place over the very short span of five months since the CBO's previous estimate in March. The revision is mainly due to higher estimated interest payments on the debt and new spending.

The President's proposed health care plan will pile on more debt, according to the CBO. And all this lies on top of the debt-increasing stimulus package passed in February.

These large deficits represent a systemic risk to the economy, worse, in my view, than the threat of a crisis in the commercial real estate mortgage market, which many think is the next shoe to drop. Under the new estimates, the ratio of debt to Gross Domestic Product (GDP), a measure of our ability to service the debt, will rise from 40% at the end of last year to over 80% in 2019 with the administration's budget. It will then continue to rise at an accelerating rate. By way of comparison, the debt to GDP ratio was 40% at the end of the 1980s - a decade remembered for high deficits - less than half that projected at the end of the coming decade.

Without spending discipline, damaging tax increases are required to close such deficits, and that is why rumors of new value-added tax are circulating. The deficits would also bring a long painful period of high inflation like the late 1960s and 1970s, a period of frequent recessions and persistently high unemployment when people began to lose confidence in the dollar.

And the growing deficits will require that the administration beg China and other countries to buy our debt, adversely affecting our foreign policy.

How much might taxes have to rise? To close the deficit in 2019 when it is projected to be running at a pace of $1.5 trillion per year, a 70% tax increase would be needed, clearly damaging to the economy and both politically and economically foolish.

But the calculations show that the problem is way too big to solve by tax increases alone.

So what game-change is called for? We must start scaling back the growth of spending now. Lay out a plan to balance the budget in five years. We must also end the bailouts - another government action hated by most Americans - by making it clear that institutions that are too big to fail are too big.

We should postpone a new health care program that requires increased government spending, and in the meantime focus on good ones that don't. In the current emergency situation we should be reforming existing entitlement programs before adding new ones.

And, since the budget problem is too big to solve by increasing taxes, we should not increase taxes. We can hear the objections: Pulling off some of the stimulus too soon will cause another downturn. But a growing debt, permanent tax increases and threats of inflation are far more likely to cause another downturn.

In my view the government stimulus program is not working. Virtually all the improved performance in the second quarter came from private investment, and making one-time payments to people is not jump-starting consumption.

But even if you thought the stimulus was working, this is no excuse for trillion-dollar-plus deficits as far as the eye can see. New facts are telling Washington to change course now.

John B. Taylor is the Mary and Robert Raymond Professor of Economics at Stanford University and the Bowen H. and Janice Arthur McCoy Senior Fellow at the Hoover Institution.

TheDoc · 11-05-2009, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

Can you name another president that pulled the Country up from the bottom in the first year or even the 2nd?

This guy will be LUCKY if he can move us 10 feet forward.. he is climbing straight up a damn wall after all.

To most of us, he is clearly moving forward, it's simple; you guys don't like the direction he is driving in, but his ass is still going forward.

baddog · 11-05-2009, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RogerV

Actually we need to do both create more jobs and stop outsourcing everything and bring the jobs back to America. From customer service to production. Top 1% of the money makers need to stop being so greedy and spread some of the wealth again or they won?t have anyone left to buy their products

Democrats have no interest in bringing jobs back to America. That would require incentives of which they only provide to those that are unemployed.

The Demon · 11-05-2009, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterPeabody

Obviously these two points need to be made AGAIN, so here ya go - consider this a Public Service Announcement:

1. MEDICARE FOR EVERYBODY. Problem solved.
2. ANYONE who likes, supports and admires George Bush or ANY Republican politician these days - is evidence of a major character flaw in their personality.

And anyone who supports liberalism or Obama has a mental disorder.

Btw, Medicare and Social Security are ponzi schemes. National debt is around 50 trillion dollars when you include those two. Educate yourself or you'll end up looking as foolish as the Doc.

TheDoc · 11-05-2009, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

Democrats have no interest in bringing jobs back to America. That would require incentives of which they only provide to those that are unemployed.

Jobs left with a Republican on watch.

The Demon · 11-05-2009, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

I think, what you mean to say is, we need to create new jobs. There are a lot more unemployed people than there are jobs to do. That is the thing about technology . . . it is a time saver which reduces the need for human input.

I thought our lord and savior promised new jobs. He had better get on it or start fining people for reproducing instead of giving them additional tax credits.

How do you create new jobs when this country isn't producing anything and Obama is continuing his deficit spending? Oh, you mean stimulus jobs? Yea those exist until the stimulus is up and people aren't buying anymore. Obama's knowledge of economics is elementary at best.

11-05-2009, 11:17 AM	#174
12clicks Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: God's right hand Posts: 19,785	we are NOT spending 8 trillion dollars over the next 10yrs on stimulus. you're simply wrong. __________________ I'm not a dinosaur, I'm a crocodile. I've seen dinosaurs come and go and I'm left unimpressed.

11-05-2009, 12:15 PM	#180
spider_x Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 481	If I was Obama and I wanted to keep my word I would promote the idea of getting off your lazy ass and starting your own mom and pop health insurance/health care business. If all kinds of americans started doing this there would be more job creation,stimulated economy, and self-sufficient health care. Screw the government. Mom and pop should be reinventing their own GM motors too. Need to stop turning to the state for help. Need to quit bailing out and DIY. America needs to transform into a new powerful machine run by the people for the people. The revolution. __________________ Want to get off the keyboard and get laid? Visit this link now for genuinely seductive mind-blowing sex! Last edited by spider_x; 11-05-2009 at 12:16 PM..

11-05-2009, 12:16 PM	#181
The Porn Nerd Living The Dream Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Inside a Monitor Posts: 19,548	Obviously these two points need to be made AGAIN, so here ya go - consider this a Public Service Announcement: 1. MEDICARE FOR EVERYBODY. Problem solved. 2. ANYONE who likes, supports and admires George Bush or ANY Republican politician these days - is evidence of a major character flaw in their personality. __________________ My Affiliate Programs: Porn Nerd Cash \| Porn Showcase \| Aggressive Gold Over 90 paysites to promote! Now on Teams: peabodymedia

11-05-2009, 12:17 PM	#182
seeandsee Check SIG! Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Europe (Skype: gojkoas) Posts: 50,945	obama will save world __________________ BUY MY SIG - 50$/Year Contact here

11-05-2009, 01:10 PM	#195
12clicks Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: God's right hand Posts: 19,785	http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/...t_debacle.html The coming debt debacle: Top economist says President Obama must slash spending, now New federal budget numbers released last week by the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) ought to be a game-changer for Congress and the Obama administration. Even before the new estimates, opinion polls revealed serious concerns of most Americans about large deficits and exploding federal debt. Those concerns will only intensify now, because the new estimates show that the budget problem has worsened considerably: The federal deficit will be $2 trillion higher than earlier estimates over the next decade, bringing the debt increase under the administration's budget policy to $10 trillion. Adding to the worry is that this large $2 trillion upward revision took place over the very short span of five months since the CBO's previous estimate in March. The revision is mainly due to higher estimated interest payments on the debt and new spending. The President's proposed health care plan will pile on more debt, according to the CBO. And all this lies on top of the debt-increasing stimulus package passed in February. These large deficits represent a systemic risk to the economy, worse, in my view, than the threat of a crisis in the commercial real estate mortgage market, which many think is the next shoe to drop. Under the new estimates, the ratio of debt to Gross Domestic Product (GDP), a measure of our ability to service the debt, will rise from 40% at the end of last year to over 80% in 2019 with the administration's budget. It will then continue to rise at an accelerating rate. By way of comparison, the debt to GDP ratio was 40% at the end of the 1980s - a decade remembered for high deficits - less than half that projected at the end of the coming decade. Without spending discipline, damaging tax increases are required to close such deficits, and that is why rumors of new value-added tax are circulating. The deficits would also bring a long painful period of high inflation like the late 1960s and 1970s, a period of frequent recessions and persistently high unemployment when people began to lose confidence in the dollar. And the growing deficits will require that the administration beg China and other countries to buy our debt, adversely affecting our foreign policy. How much might taxes have to rise? To close the deficit in 2019 when it is projected to be running at a pace of $1.5 trillion per year, a 70% tax increase would be needed, clearly damaging to the economy and both politically and economically foolish. But the calculations show that the problem is way too big to solve by tax increases alone. So what game-change is called for? We must start scaling back the growth of spending now. Lay out a plan to balance the budget in five years. We must also end the bailouts - another government action hated by most Americans - by making it clear that institutions that are too big to fail are too big. We should postpone a new health care program that requires increased government spending, and in the meantime focus on good ones that don't. In the current emergency situation we should be reforming existing entitlement programs before adding new ones. And, since the budget problem is too big to solve by increasing taxes, we should not increase taxes. We can hear the objections: Pulling off some of the stimulus too soon will cause another downturn. But a growing debt, permanent tax increases and threats of inflation are far more likely to cause another downturn. In my view the government stimulus program is not working. Virtually all the improved performance in the second quarter came from private investment, and making one-time payments to people is not jump-starting consumption. But even if you thought the stimulus was working, this is no excuse for trillion-dollar-plus deficits as far as the eye can see. New facts are telling Washington to change course now. John B. Taylor is the Mary and Robert Raymond Professor of Economics at Stanford University and the Bowen H. and Janice Arthur McCoy Senior Fellow at the Hoover Institution. __________________ I'm not a dinosaur, I'm a crocodile. I've seen dinosaurs come and go and I'm left unimpressed.

11-05-2009, 07:50 AM	#151
TurboAngel H.B.I.C. Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: NC Posts: 30,122	New page?

11-05-2009, 07:54 AM	#153
TurboAngel H.B.I.C. Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: NC Posts: 30,122	So Doc what are we supposed to do?

11-05-2009, 10:49 AM	#170
Joshua G dumb libs love censorship Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 8,198	These 4 pages of debate is worthless. bottom line is that congress is controlled by wealthy special interests, & our government no longer functions on behalf of the voters. It functions only for big corporations, big military, & big government. It means nothing which idealogy is in charge, because they are both whores to the money class.