Libertine

Since opinions on the matter seem to vary greatly in the industry, a simple question:

What do you consider "a decent income" to be? Not a "great" income or an "able to get by" income, but an amount that you consider to be sufficient to lead a good life on.

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strobi

6000$ net with great stability.

Iron Fist

all depends on your expenses I guess... if your a cocaine snorting party machine, well... then even $25K a month won't cut it.

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cherrylula

there are plenty of people in this biz and out with coke habits on less than 25k a /mo

LOL

quiet

all depends on where you live, and what you're habits are. you can live like a king in Laos (Vientiane, Vang Vieng, etc) for a couple hundred bucks a month. come to Whistler (where I live), or NYC or London, etc, and you're going to need quite a bit more lol. /understatement.

Libertine

If you're a cocaine snorting party machine, a decent income won't cut it.

What I'm talking about is the kind of income where one would be able to live comfortably while still balancing expenses - which people with expensive drug habits tend not to do.

Basically, look at the things you need for a balanced life: a good place to live, transportation, health insurance, the ability to build up savings, some money to invest, food, clothes, etc.

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xxweekxx

id need to make at least $30k/month to be happy.. anything less and im sad really..

$30k/month is nothing, after taxes im left with like $20K

Which is not a lot of money, $20k aint gonna buy you a $500k house with cash, or that BMW M5 for $80k with cash..

At this point im doing over $30k/mo but its not really enough yet.. im trying to get to around $5k/day consistent, which is around $150k/month or $1.5mil/yr.. that WILL buy me a house/car cash.. im not trying to take out a 30 year mortgage really..

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JamesK

decent would be 2000 euro net, so $3k after taxes

I can survive with less, but investing/saving would be a real problem

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katharos

3-5k is very nice for me ...

Barefootsies

Agreed.

Where you live would play into it. As well, if you are married, kids, and so on. Also we would need to clarify net profit, after expenses. As making $10/20/30K is nice. But if you are paying models, or have a lot of other business expenses it does not mean shit.

Ultimately the take home is what we are looking at for this poll. I only mention it because typically in GFY board lore people are quoting GROSS dollars. Not net.

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Enough Said.

"Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

kichi

it has nothing to do with where you live. Dentists basically cost the same anywhere in the country, same with car insurance, health insurance, tuition, gas, food, etc..... the only thing that might change is your mortgage payment, assuming you have one. I own my house. I still manage to blow at least 10k a month on just living expenses that are not lavish at all. 4k at the dentist last week alone. 5k at the ER for some heart problem i got cause i got a 5k deductible. so i blew 9k after tax dollars in 1 week. so how can anyone say that anything less then 10k a month is comfortable. I dont even have a wife or kids!

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Barefootsies

Wrong.

If I did not have models and other business expenses, I could pay all my bills for around $3K a month. That includes my house payment (4BR, 2 BATH, 2000 sq feet), truck, seadoo, student loans, food, utilities, insurance, and entertainment, etc..

By comparison, someone in Florida, New York, Los Angles, London is going to pay much more for housing and taxes alone by comparison for something similar to what I have. That does not even get into the insurance, utilities, and the rest.

Saying location does not matter at all is completely false.

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Enough Said.

"Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

kichi

95% of all my bills would be the same wherever i lived. I'm not lying.

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kichi

what country do you live in?

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Barefootsies

Then dial up your nips, and rub one out.

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Enough Said.

"Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

fuzebox

I'm amazed at how high most peoples living expenses are...

bronco67

The best income is the one that allows you to pay your bills, buy something nice when you please --- and most importantly NOT LOSE YOUR SANITY.

I made more money working in an office 9 to 5, but as a freelancer I'm less stressed, even when shit gets hectic. That peace of mind of worth losing a couple of grand per month. But anyway, the sky's the limit with freelance, so the potential to make more than my 9 to 5 is there, as long as I'm willing to put the extra work in.

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Barefootsies

Well said.

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Enough Said.

"Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

BFT3K

Sounds like another poll... What are your average monthly living expenses?

LoveSandra

i agree with u

fuzebox

I would easily take a pay cut not to have to work a dayjob again... And that's basically what I did my first 3 years in the industry.

Barefootsies

Same here.

When I left telco, I had money coming in from my celebrity sites. I have been doing online/adult part time since 1997. So I did not go from a nice paying job to $0.00 income.

However, it was a hefty drop, and adjustment, to be sure. It took me around 9-12 months before I was making around the same, and after maybe another 12-18 months, much more. So in the end, I make more, and have freedom and sanity. The bigger trade off was the health insurance.

But you can't put a price on freedom. You could not pay me a million dollars to go back to a 9-5. Freedom and piece of mind is simply that good.

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Enough Said.

"Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

JamesK

So many players on this board. Not happy with $20k net? Give me a break

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bronco67

OMG, same here. My biggest fear now in life is going back to a 9 to 5 office job. I know there are worse things that could happen, but fuck if I'm ever going to let someone else control what I do with my day.

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Barefootsies

That shit always cracks me up as well.

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Enough Said.

"Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

Juicy D. Links

$10 bucks a week

96ukssob

for me to "get by" i need to generate about $5k a month. thats to cover bills, rent, car payments, insurance, basic food, etc. after that, it ranges between $2-4k a month for other expenses, going out, boozing, etc.

years ago i was able to live decently off about $2k a month... boy i miss those times

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Octopus

depends on where you live and your expenses. I think 3000$-4000$ is enough for me

SuzzyQ

How do you buy smokes when you only need 10 bucks a week?.

DonX

True true

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Libertine

Those are the ones you'll eventually see crashing down, like certain people on this board whose names I won't mention.

It happens quite often when people suddenly come into money. They fail to distinguish between essentials and extras, and thus end up saving too little. When their business temporarily falls (something that happens with every business), they fail too adjust, maintain the same expenses, and go bankrupt.

Being aware of how much you need to live comfortably versus how much you need to do the things you want is extremely important in finding a balance between extras and savings. There's nothing wrong with buying a few nice sports cars when you can afford it, as long as you balance it with savings and investments.

Especially in this industry, it's a huge problem. Quite a few webmasters behave much like strippers who suddenly discover they have disposable income and immediately start splurging until it's gone. By the time they realize the good times are over, they're neck-deep in debt.

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quiet

are you fucking insane dude? traveling around south east asia, you can live on almost nothing lol. i've done it for 6 months at a time on jack shit. my home in Whistler is worth well over a million dollars, and it's not even all that big lol. i know a lot of webmasters who have relocated to C.R. due to how much freaking cheaper everything is. property, property taxes, (rent if you are a renter), cars, food, resturants, bars, booze. waaaaaay cheaper cost of living. *WAAAAAAY* cheaper lol.

BFT3K

The poll question is...

What are the monthly earnings required to have "a decent income"?

Well, if your overall monthly bills cost $3,000 (for example) and you want to make just $36,000 p/year as your salary, then you need to make AT LEAST $6,000 p/month.

Assuming the $3k in monthly overhead does NOT include, freelancers, full and/or part time employees, model shoots, and so much more, then even $6K p/month is still not enough to get by.

Life is very expensive!

Ginn

With an average salary of 400-500$/month guess what was my choice

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scottybuzz

Add Paris to that list which I would say now is more expensive than London.

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Barefootsies

Correct.

Not everyone is doing content production. However, many independent webmasters you have your operating costs on top of your living expenses. Some of those could include...

1. Models. Photographers. Assistants. Labor.
2. Locations (for your photo shoots, or sessions).
3. Bandwidth/servers.
4. Development costs (coders, designers, etc).
5. Advertising, PPC, banners, etc..
6. Insurance.
7. Equipment.

Obviously some of those are monthly recurring, and others are going to be one time purchases you need to factor into your annual budgets. But you can see how there can be a lot of expenses, even if someone were making $10-20K a month, and depending on what they are shooting, a lot can be gobbled away before you get into the NET or PROFIT.

That said, even if you were making $10K a month (for simplicity sake), and $4k went to models and the rest, you still have (based on your example) $3K left over on top of living expenses for savings or reinvestment.

This does not get into other one time deals not included in monthly recurring, but that would fall under capital gains on your taxes. As the tax rate is much cheaper than counting it as income.



That said, there are many ways you can slice and dice this depending on the person's forte in this industry and what they are doing. Some are not going to have as many expenses, and no labor. Where others have that, and then some if they are growing or developing. Like coder, and designer fees additional.

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Enough Said.

"Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

Ross

If you live in a big City you need more. $6000+ net is a nice figure to live on. Apartment and utilities would be about 35% of that. The rest for enjoying yourself.

Juicy D. Links

huh?????

Libertine

Earnings = income after expenses.

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Juicy D. Links

I need 50k a week just for the hookers and blow.

katharos

czech republic man ... 1500 usd means 400 for things needed to live like paying ouse etc, and the rest are free money ...

NetHorse

$25,000+

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Iron Fist

We're all millionaires.... but you knew that already anyways....

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Barefootsies

Already covered that a few posts previous in gross versus net.

Thanks professor.

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Enough Said.

"Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

woj

anything over 100k/year is pretty decent...

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CDSmith

You may not be lying, but you're wrong. Example -- your utility bills in Florida would be mostly electricity and water,
whereas your utility bills where I live include natural gas, hydro and water because you need to heat your home here 6-7 months of the year or you'll freeze to death.
The costs in both places are completely different.

As well, the cost of living in say Calgary or Vancouver is a lot higher than it is here in Winnipeg. $250K can still buy you a fairly nice home here, whereas in those other cities or Toronto and probably a lot of cities in the US $250k is only the down payment.

Taxes in each place are different. Property taxes are different.
Price of gas for your car.

Sorry, it absolutely does matter where you live as to how one is going to view what a "decent income" is.

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Antonio

I don't believe that you can live a decent life anywhere in the World on less than $1000; many people get super-excited when they find out that the average income in country X is $300 per month, but once you get there you quickly realise that if you want to live in a place with water, electricity, Internet and have some security, you'll have to spend way more than you thought

fuzebox

I don't think anyone in this thread counts their gross income before business expenses as actual income... We can all stop talking about "it's not what you make, it's what you keep" and mentioning the cost of employees and hosting.

Barefootsies

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Enough Said.

"Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"