Those of you who want health care for everyone, I have a question. - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

ShellyCrash · 03-22-2010, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Demon

I said pure intellect, as in someone who doesn't do anything with his superior IQ.

So if the smart person in this example has absolutely no ambition or work ethic then I've got to assume the hard worker has absolutely no intellect. Welcome to the world of manual labor.

What's Able Body or Labor Ready paying nowadays?

Oh, and Fidy!

The Demon · 03-22-2010, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShellyCrash

So if the smart person in this example has absolutely no ambition or work ethic then I've got to assume the hard worker has absolutely no intellect. Welcome to the world of manual labor.

What's Able Body or Labor Ready paying nowadays?

Not sure how you reached this conclusion. I'm smarter than most of my friends, yet a lot of them are more successful than me. Inferior intellect and hard work beats superior intellect and half assed work.

ShellyCrash · 03-22-2010, 03:06 PM

Speaking of Able Body, anyone else have their wrapped hummers driving around your town too?

Nothing says making money on the backs of the poor like a branded hummer

03-22-2010, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyna mo

we already pay for it with higher premiums, healthcare costs, etc.

how do you think it gets paid for now?

My point exactly. This just distributes it a little differently.

CyberHustler · 03-22-2010, 03:09 PM

Yo The Demon is mad mean...

MaDalton · 03-22-2010, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Demon

AWwww the stupid little boy lacks reading comprehension skills, how cute

yeah, man, those socialists over here can't even afford going to school - let alone a doctor

but thanks for calling me cute, it's been a long time since someone did that. you almost made me blush

Boobzooka · 03-22-2010, 03:10 PM

Yes, I am willing to pay for it. Whatever it takes. I don't want to live in a country where people suffer unnecessarily and die preventable deaths of treatable illnesses while other people own private jets. No one gets any luxuries until everyone has healthcare. As a society, to waste resources on anything else first is unforgivably immoral. If I weren't an atheist, I'd suggest there's a place in hell reserved for those who value material things over other peoples lives. And I generally hate people.

Per-capita, universal government run healthcare administration is cheaper than the current for-profit limited coverage insurance system, if we could scrap it and start over. Unfortunately kneejerk anti-government types would rather pay a $1000 "premium" than a $700 "tax".

It should be obvious that taking a price-gouging middleman out of the deal makes the product cheaper, but the slaves are too used to sucking corporate cock. They think their debt-funded middle-class lifestyle means they're the rich who are going to take the hit. They have no idea of the real wealth disparity that exists. If you have to work, don't fool yourself, you are peasant-class.

My tax bill this year is six-figures. I have no kids. I hate the wars. What do I get for my money now?

ShellyCrash · 03-22-2010, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Demon

Not sure how you reached this conclusion. I'm smarter than most of my friends, yet a lot of them are more successful than me. Inferior intellect and hard work beats superior intellect and half assed work.

I tend to disagree. I have a strong work ethic and believe that's been a major part of providing me with some of the opportunity life has presented me with, but without superior intellect at best my hard work would probably have landed me in middle management somewhere.

I guess I'll leave it at that, don't want to get too far into semantics. That's just my opinion.

will76 · 03-22-2010, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fungus

um ok Maybe Demon was right and it was me over reacting and maybe JUST maybe I took what you said out of text! I am just sick of folks that think they are better then me or others just because they have more money then I do. What you just wrote in this reply does make more since then the org post.. Maybe its my ged education

For this I am going to say I am sorry for being a asshole and ranting on you.

Demon you're still a shit troll but at least you you were right.

apology accepted. I am not the most eloquent typer. I say "lazy" and I mean people who choose not to work, but can. People who understand how to beat the system. The people who say well I can work 40 hours a week min wage and make $500 or sit at home and make $400 and they decide to sit at home. The people who don't try to make themselves better through education.

There is a % of the population that really needs help and then there is the other % that either doesn't try or is purposely irresponsible because they know that the govt will bail them out. I would give someone money out of my pocket if they are really trying and deserve help. I just hate knowing that some of my tax dollars are going to those people that don't deserve it.

I thought the exact same why I do now when I was in college making 10K a year waiting tables. I wouldn't call myself rich now either. I wont be making over 250 this year. Regardless of what I make I don't think as a country it is right to keep rapeing the rich to reward those that abuse the system.

If "we" as a country want to pay for people that can't afford health care, then "we" as a country should pay the bill equally. And I don't mean someone who makes 25K a year should pay the same as someone who makes 250K a year. The % of what people pay should be the same. If it is 1% of your income, then it should be 1% for everyone to pay for it. I am not opposed to making sure everyone has health care if 1. everyone pays for it fairly, and 2. the people getting free health care really need the help and deserve the help. If they choose to spend all their money on a nice car and that is why they can't afford health care then why should any of us have to bail them out for being irresponsible ?

dyna mo · 03-22-2010, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will76

rapeing the rich to reward those that abuse the system.

how are those with a pre-existing condition raping the rich/being rewarded for abusing the system?

you are lumping a lot of people together.

The Demon · 03-22-2010, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShellyCrash

I tend to disagree. I have a strong work ethic and believe that's been a major part of providing me with some of the opportunity life has presented me with, but without superior intellect at best my hard work would probably have landed me in middle management somewhere.

I guess I'll leave it at that, don't want to get too far into semantics. That's just my opinion.

I don't think we're arguing about anything at this point. You just stated that you have both the intellect and the work ethic, therefore it's not what I was talking about.

ShellyCrash · 03-22-2010, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boobzooka

Yes, I am willing to pay for it. Whatever it takes. I don't want to live in a country where people suffer unnecessarily and die preventable deaths of treatable illnesses while other people own private jets. No one gets any luxuries until everyone has healthcare. As a society, to waste resources on anything else first is unforgivably immoral. If I weren't an atheist, I'd suggest there's a place in hell reserved for those who value material things over other peoples lives. And I generally hate people.

This sums up my stance perfectly

theking · 03-22-2010, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will76

rapeing the rich to reward those that abuse the system.

When JFK became President the tax rate for the wealthy was 92% and it is now 38% so how would adding a few percentage points to be your brothers keeper be raping the rich?

dyna mo · 03-22-2010, 03:31 PM

a clear sign of civilized societies throughout the ages: those with ways and means help those who do not.

Young · 03-22-2010, 03:32 PM

The Demon is only the second person I've added to my ignore list in my 6 plus years on GFY. The first was Stodgehill aka DiscoStu. What makes this particular situation unique is that I've never had direct message board contact with The Demon. I just can't stand reading the stupid blind partisan bullshit drool that seeps from mouth/keyboard.

will76 · 03-22-2010, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boobzooka

Yes, I am willing to pay for it. Whatever it takes. I don't want to live in a country where people suffer unnecessarily and die preventable deaths of treatable illnesses while other people own private jets. No one gets any luxuries until everyone has healthcare. As a society, to waste resources on anything else first is unforgivably immoral. If I weren't an atheist, I'd suggest there's a place in hell reserved for those who value material things over other peoples lives. And I generally hate people.

So I guess you going to hell then if you don;'t give away every last penny to the poor people right not that can't afford health care?

because if you have a nice car, a flat screen tv, money in your savings account, then you must value material things over other people's help.

I hate to tell you, but if no one could have jets, and mansions, 100K sports cars and those other luxuries then we would be a third world country. It is capitalism that enables the majority of us to work hard and strive to be successful. No one busts their ass just to make more so they have more to give away to the people who have less. If people don't strive to be successful then there is less wealth made in this country to rape to pay for the "have nots". The country as a whole would go to shit a lot worse than it is now.

Hello Socialism.

You have a problem with people who work hard "gasp" from being able to have nice things if the other 300 million people in the US can afford health care. My problem is that a lot of the people who can't afford to have health care choose not to through their own irresponsibility.

will76 · 03-22-2010, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyna mo

how are those with a pre-existing condition raping the rich/being rewarded for abusing the system?

you are lumping a lot of people together.

because there is a lot of people who abuse the system. Did i say ALL? no several times i said there are two groups of people, those who are irresponsible and rape the system and those who really need the help. Both groups are LARGE. If you dont think there are a large amount of people abusing the system then you have your head up your ass.

The Demon · 03-22-2010, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Young

The Demon is only the second person I've added to my ignore list in my 6 plus years on GFY. The first was Stodgehill aka DiscoStu. What makes this particular situation unique is that I've never had direct message board contact with The Demon. I just can't stand reading the stupid blind partisan bullshit drool that seeps from mouth/keyboard.

Translation: I'm a stupid, antisocial liberal who takes everything I don't agree with, as right wing propaganda, and everything I do agree with, as fact.

Thanks Young, you're an idiot

Let me know if anyone gives a shit about your post, other than humor.

The Demon · 03-22-2010, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShellyCrash

This sums up my stance perfectly

Again, another emotional argument. It's not as black as white as these emotional people make it. It's not "I want health care for all because everyone deserves it, blah blah blah". It's not that simple.

dyna mo · 03-22-2010, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will76

because there is a lot of people who abuse the system. Did i say ALL? no several times i said there are two groups of people, those who are irresponsible and rape the system and those who really need the help. Both groups are LARGE. If you dont think there are a large amount of people abusing the system then you have your head up your ass.

relax.

will76 · 03-22-2010, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyna mo

a clear sign of civilized societies throughout the ages: those with ways and means help those who do not.

people who need help should get it.
the money collected to help them should be fairly collected. There is no justification to make only the people who make over 250K a year pay for it all and people who make 100K or 50K a year.
One way to make a civilized society to fall is to punish the people who actually contribute the most to the society, hence heading more and more to socialism.

dyna mo · 03-22-2010, 03:48 PM

i am not shrugging my shoulders at abuse, but it is impossible to eliminate it. medicare is one of the most successful entitlement programs ever created and they budget in 100's of millions for abuse every year.

F-U-Jimmy · 03-22-2010, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by halfpint

Our economic situation is just as bad as the US and yes way back people had to wait but but it wasent for urgent procedures. Our system is not 100% but it works and we also have the option of going private if we wish. I had to be rushed to hospital for an appendix when I was in my late 20s.
I was in and out very quickly and I couldent have asked for a better service. I would rather have this kind of system we have so that I know that its not gonna make me bankrupt if I get sick. I can get treated when ever I need to without any questions or hassle. When my dad had cancer I also could not have asked for a better treatment which they gave him before he died

Exact same experience here

The UK system is far from perfect but its way better than anything available in the USA so far. Lets hope this new bill makes some improvements

Oh and before anyone says the UK system is free, find out about the payments Brits make to National Insurance each moth ?

Minte · 03-22-2010, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theking

When JFK became President the wealthy paid 92% and now the rate is 38%...I think the wealthy will not suffer much to be their brothers keeper if a few percentage points are added.

If that were truly the case,it probably wouldn't break anyones heart. But you've been around long enough to know it won't pan out that way. If this law makes it all the way,the middle class will pay more for insurance and taxes. Has it ever been any other way?

directfiesta · 03-22-2010, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by halfpint

We have a similar system over here in the Uk and it works well for both poor and well off people, why shouldent it work for you guys over in the USA. A lot of people over here are saved by our NHS system and it does not break thier bank accounts when they do get ill like you see happening in the US

Because..... they are .... euh..... Americans ?

CosmicTang · 03-22-2010, 04:20 PM

Will has some excellent points and I agree with many of his views on the subject. People have to take some responsibility and play by the rules. However, if we can't call a spade a spade and look at the other side here then we're all hypocrites.

The wealthiest 1% of the population has more financial wealth than the bottom 95%. That didn't happen by hard work, superior intellect, or just being born lucky. That happened by gaming the system. And worse, the disparity is growing.

According to a Federal Reserve survey in 2001 the wealthiest 1% owned 39.7 percent of the financial wealth, while the bottom 95 percent owned 32.5 percent.

They did another survey in 2004 which found that the top 1 percent owned 42.2 percent, compared to 31 percent for the bottom 95 percent.

In the 2007 survey data the top 1 percent held 48.4 percent, compared to 20 percent for the bottom 95 percent. For the second straight survey, in fact, the concentration of wealth increased.

Will, you make a show of wanting to metaphorically hang those at the bottom gaming the system to get a free ride, and I agree with you there. But you can't seriously give a pass to all rich people and assume they made it to the top honestly and without trampling on the backs of people with no money and no way to protect their rights or enforce the rules to make it a fair game.

This country is not a free-loving democracy where everyone has the same opportunities. That's the bullshit line they feed everyone and we all buy it because deep down we all hope to get rich one day and live a good life. This country is more and more becoming a plutocracy--rule by the wealthy elite. Bankers, Wall St. types, CEOs of MNCs and the politicians who do their bidding enjoy the fruits of a rigged game while making their money on the backs of everyone else.

Our free market capitalist system is an illusion. The game is fixed and most buy it because they hope that one day they get to sit at the adults' table. Until there's some REAL reform there is no way to call this a free country or a market economy. What we have is a plutocracy.

halfpint · 03-22-2010, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F-U-Jimmy

Oh and before anyone says the UK system is free, find out about the payments Brits make to National Insurance each moth ?

Yes correct we do pay national insurance and yes some people do say things like " why should I pay for somebody else when they get sick" and I wouldent even mind at all if I never used the the NHS and was still paying my contributions at least I know the money I have paid will help somebody else when they get ill

Quote:

Originally Posted by directfiesta

Because..... they are .... euh..... Americans ?

I have nothing against the US people ..I just dont get them sometimes.. and TBH I dont know all the ins and outs of thier current system, maybe its better the way it is, maybe its not but its up to them at the end of the day of how they want thier system run

The Demon · 03-22-2010, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CosmicTang

Will, you make a show of wanting to metaphorically hang those at the bottom gaming the system to get a free ride, and I agree with you there. But you can't seriously give a pass to rich people and assume they made it to the top honestly and without trampling on the backs of people with no money and no way to protect their rights or enforce the rules to make it a fair game.

How do you know? Out of every 1 rich person I know, at least 3 have worked their asses off day and night, 12 hour days for years, to get to the top. I think the idea that the "rich cheat to become rich" is either a myth, or a really bad exaggeration.

Quote:

This country is not a free-loving democracy where everyone has the same opportunities. That's the bullshit line they feed everyone and we all buy it because deep down we all hope to get rich one day and live a good life. This country is more and more a plutocracy--rule by the wealthy elite. Bankers, Wall St. types, CEOs of MNCs and the politicians who do their bidding enjoy the fruits of a rigged game while making their money on the backs of everyone else.

By that logic, every country is run by the wealthy elite for the most part. This isn't really saying anything new.

Quote:

A free market capitalist system is an illusion. The game is fixed and most buy it because they hope that one day they get to sit at the adults' table. Until there's some REAL reform there is no way to call this a free country or a market economy. What we have is a plutocracy.

Actually, while we don't have a true free market economy, up until Clinton, the government for the most part, stayed out of economic affairs. The game is NOT "fixed", unless you don't know anything about economics. The government can definitely swing it one way or another with their propaganda, but they haven't gone beyond that, although with Obama and Bernanke, we've gotten closer to real government intervention in economics than we've ever had.

directfiesta · 03-22-2010, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Demon

Translation: I'm a stupid, antisocial liberal who takes everything I don't agree with, as right wing propaganda, and everything I do agree with, as fact.

Thanks Young, you're an idiot

Let me know if anyone gives a shit about your post, other than humor.

Just quoting so YOUNG can see more vomit regurgitated by that idiot bibble hugger anti-porn right winger that is the Demon....LOL....

The Demon · 03-22-2010, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by halfpint

Yes correct we do pay national insurance and yes some people do say things like " why should I pay for somebody else when they get sick" and I wouldent even mind at all if I never used the the NHS and was still paying my contributions at least I know the money I have paid will help somebody else when they get ill

I have nothing against the US people ..I just get them sometimes.. and TBH I dont know all the ins and outs of thier current system, maybe its better the way it is, maybe its not but its up the them at the end of the day how they want thier system run

You don't have 300 million people and tens of trillions of dollars in debt (not counting social security, medicare/medicaid, and other ponzi schemes.)

The Demon · 03-22-2010, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by directfiesta

Just quoting so YOUNG can see more vomit regurgitated by that idiot bibble hugger anti-porn right winger that is the Demon....LOL....

I've yet to see a single person respond to the morons who insult me. Why is it that you losers are the dumbest people on a porn forum ROFL

Btw, who said I was anti porn? Also, what's a bibble? DirectFiesta, ladies and gentlemen. The epitome of retardation

Also:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_1...37-503544.html
Thought this was funny and pretty much what you would expect.

CosmicTang · 03-22-2010, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Demon

How do you know? Out of every 1 rich person I know, at least 3 have worked their asses off day and night, 12 hour days for years, to get to the top. I think the idea that the "rich cheat to become rich" is either a myth, or a really bad exaggeration.

Rich people and poor people have one very big thing in common...they're human beings. To say that all rich people are rich because of hard work and all poor people are lazy scum and are victims of their own circumstance is about as ignorant a thing as one could say on the subject.

If you don't think the wealthy cheat to become and stay wealthy then you've been sleepwalking through the last two years. Bailouts anyone? Do we need to trace that sordid affair again?

Quote:

By that logic, every country is run by the wealthy elite for the most part. This isn't really saying anything new.

So it's okay to claim our country is distinct from all the others and that's why we do things differently but when it comes to letting the plutocrats run the show at our expense it's okay since every country is run that way? Hypocrisy anyone?

If you want to wave a flag about this being a great country and a free country how about starting by breaking this nasty habit we picked up from our European ancestors.

Quote:

Actually, while we don't have a true free market economy, up until Clinton, the government for the most part, stayed out of economic affairs. The game is NOT "fixed", unless you don't know anything about economics. The government can definitely swing it one way or another with their propaganda, but they haven't gone beyond that, although with Obama and Bernanke, we've gotten closer to real government intervention in economics than we've ever had.

The government has not been truly hands off since before WWII. After that little fiasco we call the Great Depression they stepped in and put all kinds of regulation in place and guess what, the US enjoyed the best decades in the history of Western Civilization in terms of increases in standards of living. People got educated, infrastructure and manufacturing skyrocketed, you yourself said that the 1950's were a great time. In many ways they were...if you're willing to overlook that entire segments of the population didn't really count.

The economy has been on course to derail since the 1980's when we started deregulating everything and the greed factor took over and eventually crashed the system and the same people who deregulated our economy then looted it for billions (and counting) and people have the GALL to pick on poor people for being lazy???

You should be ashamed of yourself.

You like to say "you don't know anything about economics"...A LOT. You usually follow it up with colorful pejoratives which I can't help but interpret as a limited vocabulary or a shortcoming of acumen on the subject.

The game is most certainly fixed. The economics work however they set up the rules to reward people. If hard work was all you needed to get ahead there would be a lot of people getting ahead. The shortage in this country isn't wealth, or hard work, it's a fair shot. If you don't see where banks and the plutocrats have been feasting on what people don't know or taking advantage of their circumstances than you're naive. You've purchased a great big lie.

dyna mo · 03-22-2010, 04:52 PM

Milestones in US Anti Trust History

1890: Sherman Anti Trust Act
1902 Northern Securities case
1911: Standard Oil case
1914: Federal Trade Commission set up
1934: Securities and Exchange Commission set up
1969-1982: IBM case
1974-1984: AT&T case
1998- : Microsoft:

dyna mo · 03-22-2010, 04:53 PM

Practices banned by US anti trust law

Monopolies "in restraint of trade"
"Predatory pricing" at below cost to drive out competitors
"Price-fixing", an agreement among several competitors to fix prices or restrict output
"illegal business practices" including restriction on opening hours, resale price maintenance, and tie-in sales

BFT3K · 03-22-2010, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boobzooka

Yes, I am willing to pay for it. Whatever it takes. I don't want to live in a country where people suffer unnecessarily and die preventable deaths of treatable illnesses while other people own private jets. No one gets any luxuries until everyone has healthcare. As a society, to waste resources on anything else first is unforgivably immoral. If I weren't an atheist, I'd suggest there's a place in hell reserved for those who value material things over other peoples lives. And I generally hate people.

Per-capita, universal government run healthcare administration is cheaper than the current for-profit limited coverage insurance system, if we could scrap it and start over. Unfortunately kneejerk anti-government types would rather pay a $1000 "premium" than a $700 "tax".

It should be obvious that taking a price-gouging middleman out of the deal makes the product cheaper, but the slaves are too used to sucking corporate cock. They think their debt-funded middle-class lifestyle means they're the rich who are going to take the hit. They have no idea of the real wealth disparity that exists. If you have to work, don't fool yourself, you are peasant-class.

My tax bill this year is six-figures. I have no kids. I hate the wars. What do I get for my money now?

BFT3K · 03-22-2010, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CosmicTang

Rich people and poor people have one very big thing in common...they're human beings. To say that all rich people are rich because of hard work and all poor people are lazy scum and are victims of their own circumstance is about as ignorant a thing as one could say on the subject.

If you don't think the wealthy cheat to become and stay wealthy then you've been sleepwalking through the last two years. Bailouts anyone? Do we need to trace that sordid affair again?

So it's okay to claim our country is distinct from all the others and that's why we do things differently but when it comes to letting the plutocrats run the show at our expense it's okay since every country is run that way? Hypocrisy anyone?

If you want to wave a flag about this being a great country and a free country how about starting by breaking this nasty habit we picked up from our European ancestors.

The government has not been truly hands off since before WWII. After that little fiasco we call the Great Depression they stepped in and put all kinds of regulation in place and guess what, the US enjoyed the best decades in the history of Western Civilization in terms of increases in standards of living. People got educated, infrastructure and manufacturing skyrocketed, you yourself said that the 1950's were a great time. In many ways they were...if you're willing to overlook that entire segments of the population didn't really count.

The economy has been on course to derail since the 1980's when we started deregulating everything and the greed factor took over and eventually crashed the system and the same people who deregulated our economy then looted it for billions (and counting) and people have the GALL to pick on poor people for being lazy???

You should be ashamed of yourself.

You like to say "you don't know anything about economics"...A LOT. You usually follow it up with colorful pejoratives which I can't help but interpret as a limited vocabulary or a shortcoming of acumen on the subject.

The game is most certainly fixed. The economics work however they set up the rules to reward people. If hard work was all you needed to get ahead there would be a lot of people getting ahead. The shortage in this country isn't wealth, or hard work, it's a fair shot. If you don't see where banks and the plutocrats have been feasting on what people don't know or taking advantage of their circumstances than you're naive. You've purchased a great big lie.

MaDalton · 03-22-2010, 05:34 PM

i hate the socialism here - cheap food and drinks, affordable rent, affordable healthcare, tolerable taxes and hot chicks. man this place really sucks.

CosmicTang · 03-22-2010, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDalton

i hate the socialism here - cheap food and drinks, affordable rent, affordable healthcare, tolerable taxes and hot chicks. man this place really sucks.

What's the job market like?

directfiesta · 03-22-2010, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Demon

Also, what's a bibble? The epitome of retardation

Also:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_1...37-503544.html
Thought this was funny and pretty much what you would expect.

lol.... probably due to the air .... Am in Florida now ...lol...

After all, you did some typos yesterday and blasted the poster that pointed them out to you ...

Am very sad that healthcare bill passed ....

marketsmart · 03-22-2010, 06:51 PM

do any of you know where non insured people go now for healthcare?

the ER...

do you know how much it cost in relation to going to a family doc?

about 10 x the amount..

i am for everyone having access to healthcare at a price they can afford even if that means free for some..

and if i have to pick up a little slack in the way of taxes, i dont mind..

what i do mind, is the waste, fraud, and general corruption of all govt.

there are a couple states that run successful medicaid systems and have eliminated a lot of the fraud..

if one can do it, then the rest can too...

people need to wake up and understand that the whole system is broken, not just one wheel..

stop bitching about it on an adult forum and do something to change the system..

.

weekly · 03-22-2010, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDalton

i hate the socialism here - cheap food and drinks, affordable rent, affordable healthcare, tolerable taxes and hot chicks. man this place really sucks.

Americans use Socialism like a cuss word. Nothing wrong with socialism. It works well.

dyna mo · 03-22-2010, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marketsmart

do any of you know where non insured people go now for healthcare?

the ER...

do you know how much it cost in relation to going to a family doc?

about 10 x the amount..

obviously, the hospital just writes that off as a loss, duh.

BFT3K · 03-22-2010, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyna mo

obviously, the hospital just writes that off as a loss, duh.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=rCZRqH7sRyA

NetHorse · 03-22-2010, 07:15 PM

Overload · 03-22-2010, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Demon

Without a working health care system?
Get a clue with your propaganda. I don't understand why all of a sudden, people think that America should be like every other nation. Our values are distinct from other nations and they'll always stay that way.

if you wanna stick with sub-standard treatments, so be it ... US health care sucks balls and the world knows ... but some "patriots" still think its ok to stick with a "who cares about a baby if it has no health insurance" policy ... ANY western nation has a BETTER health care sys than the US ... punctum, fact and basta

marketsmart · 03-22-2010, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyna mo

obviously, the hospital just writes that off as a loss, duh.

you are shitting me right?

you do know the difference between a public and private hospital right?

if not, the private hospital is the one that tells the uninsured to kick rocks...

the public hospital treats everyone...

btw, about 1/3 treated in public hospital dont pay their bills...

,

.

The Demon · 03-22-2010, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Overload

if you wanna stick with sub-standard treatments, so be it ... US health care sucks balls and the world knows ... but some "patriots" still think its ok to stick with a "who cares about a baby if it has no health insurance" policy ... ANY western nation has a BETTER health care sys than the US ... punctum, fact and basta

+1 for unsupported assumptions

The Demon · 03-22-2010, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CosmicTang

Rich people and poor people have one very big thing in common...they're human beings. To say that all rich people are rich because of hard work and all poor people are lazy scum and are victims of their own circumstance is about as ignorant a thing as one could say on the subject.

Except this was never stated by me, anywhere. Strawman #1

Quote:

If you don't think the wealthy cheat to become and stay wealthy then you've been sleepwalking through the last two years. Bailouts anyone? Do we need to trace that sordid affair again?

I never stated that the wealthy don't cheat, you're using it to speak for all rich people. Strawman #2

Quote:

So it's okay to claim our country is distinct from all the others and that's why we do things differently but when it comes to letting the plutocrats run the show at our expense it's okay since every country is run that way? Hypocrisy anyone?

I never stated anything was ok, I stated that there is no difference between our alleged "plutocracy" and everybody else's. Are you even reading what you're responding to? Strawman #3.

Quote:

If you want to wave a flag about this being a great country and a free country how about starting by breaking this nasty habit we picked up from our European ancestors.

Have no idea what this is other than an emotional outburst.

Quote:

The government has not been truly hands off since before WWII. After that little fiasco we call the Great Depression they stepped in and put all kinds of regulation in place and guess what, the US enjoyed the best decades in the history of Western Civilization in terms of increases in standards of living. People got educated, infrastructure and manufacturing skyrocketed, you yourself said that the 1950's were a great time. In many ways they were...if you're willing to overlook that entire segments of the population didn't really count.

The reason why the depression lasted 15 something years was because of government interference. We had deregulation post WWII and were on the gold standard, that is why we experienced a boom unlike any in history.

Quote:

The economy has been on course to derail since the 1980's when we started deregulating everything and the greed factor took over and eventually crashed the system and the same people who deregulated our economy then looted it for billions (and counting) and people have the GALL to pick on poor people for being lazy???

Actually, 50's. And the economy has been on course for derail ever since we went off the gold standard for good in 1971, and started spending beyond our means, followed by massive outsourcing and deficit spending. More government=less economic prosperity. That's how it's worked in America throughout history.

Quote:

You should be ashamed of yourself.

Illogical emotional outburst #2

Quote:

You like to say "you don't know anything about economics"...A LOT. You usually follow it up with colorful pejoratives which I can't help but interpret as a limited vocabulary or a shortcoming of acumen on the subject.

Which basically proves my point when you have to throw back a ridiculous insult. I'm glad you looked up "pejoratives" in the dictionary lol.

Quote:

The game is most certainly fixed. The economics work however they set up the rules to reward people. If hard work was all you needed to get ahead there would be a lot of people getting ahead. The shortage in this country isn't wealth, or hard work, it's a fair shot. If you don't see where banks and the plutocrats have been feasting on what people don't know or taking advantage of their circumstances than you're naive. You've purchased a great big lie.

I'm glad you have proof of this, other than your emotional rants. Too easy

dyna mo · 03-22-2010, 07:40 PM

thank you for catching my pun.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BFT3K

https://youtube.com/watch?v=rCZRqH7sRyA

NiteRain · 03-22-2010, 08:10 PM

Speaking of only public hospitals:

The way the old system use to work. A person winds up in the ER, and he spends 5 days there, he is looking at a bill around 40,000 dollars. If he doesn't have insurance, you know who pays for him? You know what this guy does? Luckily the hospital is happy to tell him what he has to do to pay them back, and they have people there who specialize in getting you to the right place to help pay for this 40,000 dollar bill. In no time, the government is paying this 40,000 dollar bill. And who gives the government the money to pay this bill, you do. So now you are sitting here on a thread trying to justify that now you know it is getting taken out of your pocket, when it was being taken out of your pocket all along. Wait until you find out, that you paid twice as much as you should have on your taxes, you might end up learning about that 5 years from now.

03-22-2010, 03:06 PM	#53
ShellyCrash Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Tampa Bay, FL Posts: 6,708	Speaking of Able Body, anyone else have their wrapped hummers driving around your town too? Nothing says making money on the backs of the poor like a branded hummer __________________ Start making money with the hottest hookup site! up to $55 PPS or up to 75% Revshare ICQ 196766477

03-22-2010, 03:10 PM	#57
Boobzooka Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: BOOBZOOKA.COM Posts: 626	Yes, I am willing to pay for it. Whatever it takes. I don't want to live in a country where people suffer unnecessarily and die preventable deaths of treatable illnesses while other people own private jets. No one gets any luxuries until everyone has healthcare. As a society, to waste resources on anything else first is unforgivably immoral. If I weren't an atheist, I'd suggest there's a place in hell reserved for those who value material things over other peoples lives. And I generally hate people. Per-capita, universal government run healthcare administration is cheaper than the current for-profit limited coverage insurance system, if we could scrap it and start over. Unfortunately kneejerk anti-government types would rather pay a $1000 "premium" than a $700 "tax". It should be obvious that taking a price-gouging middleman out of the deal makes the product cheaper, but the slaves are too used to sucking corporate cock. They think their debt-funded middle-class lifestyle means they're the rich who are going to take the hit. They have no idea of the real wealth disparity that exists. If you have to work, don't fool yourself, you are peasant-class. My tax bill this year is six-figures. I have no kids. I hate the wars. What do I get for my money now? __________________ BOOBZOOKA: Amateur Affiliate Program featuring SellYourSexTape: Real couples document their lovelife for one week. HerBedroomWindow: Girls recording themselves alone at home. \| DareRing: "Truth Or Dare?" themed adult party games.

03-22-2010, 03:32 PM	#65
Young Bland for life Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 10,468	The Demon is only the second person I've added to my ignore list in my 6 plus years on GFY. The first was Stodgehill aka DiscoStu. What makes this particular situation unique is that I've never had direct message board contact with The Demon. I just can't stand reading the stupid blind partisan bullshit drool that seeps from mouth/keyboard. __________________ ★★★

03-22-2010, 04:20 PM	#76
CosmicTang Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 1,478	Will has some excellent points and I agree with many of his views on the subject. People have to take some responsibility and play by the rules. However, if we can't call a spade a spade and look at the other side here then we're all hypocrites. The wealthiest 1% of the population has more financial wealth than the bottom 95%. That didn't happen by hard work, superior intellect, or just being born lucky. That happened by gaming the system. And worse, the disparity is growing. According to a Federal Reserve survey in 2001 the wealthiest 1% owned 39.7 percent of the financial wealth, while the bottom 95 percent owned 32.5 percent. They did another survey in 2004 which found that the top 1 percent owned 42.2 percent, compared to 31 percent for the bottom 95 percent. In the 2007 survey data the top 1 percent held 48.4 percent, compared to 20 percent for the bottom 95 percent. For the second straight survey, in fact, the concentration of wealth increased. Will, you make a show of wanting to metaphorically hang those at the bottom gaming the system to get a free ride, and I agree with you there. But you can't seriously give a pass to all rich people and assume they made it to the top honestly and without trampling on the backs of people with no money and no way to protect their rights or enforce the rules to make it a fair game. This country is not a free-loving democracy where everyone has the same opportunities. That's the bullshit line they feed everyone and we all buy it because deep down we all hope to get rich one day and live a good life. This country is more and more becoming a plutocracy--rule by the wealthy elite. Bankers, Wall St. types, CEOs of MNCs and the politicians who do their bidding enjoy the fruits of a rigged game while making their money on the backs of everyone else. Our free market capitalist system is an illusion. The game is fixed and most buy it because they hope that one day they get to sit at the adults' table. Until there's some REAL reform there is no way to call this a free country or a market economy. What we have is a plutocracy. __________________ ICQ: 456.689.835 julian (at) orgasm (dot) com Last edited by CosmicTang; 03-22-2010 at 04:24 PM..

03-22-2010, 05:34 PM	#87
MaDalton I am Amazing Content! Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 39,822	i hate the socialism here - cheap food and drinks, affordable rent, affordable healthcare, tolerable taxes and hot chicks. man this place really sucks. __________________ AmazingContent.com - providing only the best content and service since 2003 Monetize your content on Veegaz.com - one of Germanies largest VOD sites Got German traffic? We convert it into money for you! Skype: madalton02826 - Email: oltecconsult [at] gmail [dot] com

03-22-2010, 03:09 PM	#55
CyberHustler Unregistered Abuser Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 25,318	Yo The Demon is mad mean...

03-22-2010, 03:31 PM	#64
dyna mo The People's Post Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: invisible 7-11 Posts: 64,045	a clear sign of civilized societies throughout the ages: those with ways and means help those who do not.

03-22-2010, 03:48 PM	#72
dyna mo The People's Post Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: invisible 7-11 Posts: 64,045	i am not shrugging my shoulders at abuse, but it is impossible to eliminate it. medicare is one of the most successful entitlement programs ever created and they budget in 100's of millions for abuse every year.

03-22-2010, 04:52 PM	#83
dyna mo The People's Post Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: invisible 7-11 Posts: 64,045	Milestones in US Anti Trust History 1890: Sherman Anti Trust Act 1902 Northern Securities case 1911: Standard Oil case 1914: Federal Trade Commission set up 1934: Securities and Exchange Commission set up 1969-1982: IBM case 1974-1984: AT&T case 1998- : Microsoft:

03-22-2010, 04:53 PM	#84
dyna mo The People's Post Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: invisible 7-11 Posts: 64,045	Practices banned by US anti trust law Monopolies "in restraint of trade" "Predatory pricing" at below cost to drive out competitors "Price-fixing", an agreement among several competitors to fix prices or restrict output "illegal business practices" including restriction on opening hours, resale price maintenance, and tie-in sales

03-22-2010, 06:51 PM	#90
marketsmart HOMICIDAL TROLL KILLER Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sunnybrook Institution for the Criminally Insane Posts: 20,419	do any of you know where non insured people go now for healthcare? the ER... do you know how much it cost in relation to going to a family doc? about 10 x the amount.. i am for everyone having access to healthcare at a price they can afford even if that means free for some.. and if i have to pick up a little slack in the way of taxes, i dont mind.. what i do mind, is the waste, fraud, and general corruption of all govt. there are a couple states that run successful medicaid systems and have eliminated a lot of the fraud.. if one can do it, then the rest can too... people need to wake up and understand that the whole system is broken, not just one wheel.. stop bitching about it on an adult forum and do something to change the system.. .

03-22-2010, 07:15 PM	#94
NetHorse Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Chicago Posts: 3,526	__________________ ┌∩┐(◣_◢)┌∩┐ ICQ # 427013273

03-22-2010, 08:10 PM	#100
NiteRain Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Fort Lauderdale Posts: 600	You just don't get it Speaking of only public hospitals: The way the old system use to work. A person winds up in the ER, and he spends 5 days there, he is looking at a bill around 40,000 dollars. If he doesn't have insurance, you know who pays for him? You know what this guy does? Luckily the hospital is happy to tell him what he has to do to pay them back, and they have people there who specialize in getting you to the right place to help pay for this 40,000 dollar bill. In no time, the government is paying this 40,000 dollar bill. And who gives the government the money to pay this bill, you do. So now you are sitting here on a thread trying to justify that now you know it is getting taken out of your pocket, when it was being taken out of your pocket all along. Wait until you find out, that you paid twice as much as you should have on your taxes, you might end up learning about that 5 years from now. __________________ AIM: PerlScriptor Last edited by NiteRain; 03-22-2010 at 08:11 PM..