Socialism (in the U.S.A) - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

mgtarheels · 03-30-2010, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J. Falcon

Since you've posted absolutely nothing factual, I guess we'll just have to take your word for it, right?

I've already given you examples. SSI and UEI are socialist welfare programs.

You also need to realize there are multiple forms of socialism.

The Demon · 03-30-2010, 12:25 PM

No, we laugh at his failed attempts to sound intelligent by throwing out concepts.

mgtarheels · 03-30-2010, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Demon

No, we laugh at his failed attempts to sound intelligent by throwing out concepts.

0 failed attempts. Again, SSI and UEI are socialist programs - that's uncontentious.

What's he is confusing are the likes of Eastern Socialism and Nordic Socialism whilst combining them with the Progressive Era which is completely backasswards.

borked · 03-30-2010, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgtarheels

0 failed attempts. Again, SSI and UEI are socialist programs - that's uncontentious.

So are police, fire, road, vaccination services. Would you like them privatised as well?

You should not group social essentials with socialism.

borked · 03-30-2010, 02:11 PM

Not socialism, but solidarity, but there was something on the news this evening that was heart warming....

A guy had a young son that was dying of cancer and he was determined to spend his son's last days at his bedside. He had already used his XX days of vacation to be at his bedside, yet his son hadn't died.

All his co-workers asked the union then management to back them in "cashing in" their holidays to give to the guy so he could be with his son. Union didn't even have to intervene because the company agreed (Badoit, a major international company, like Evian).

He used their holidays and his son died on 31st Dec last year.

The guy was management and was taking vacation handouts from the workers (and being accepted by even more senior management) that were beneath him.

I know this has got absolutely sod all to do with a socialist government, but it's got everything to do with 100% solidarity amongst workers, which a left wing mind tends to flourish.

directfiesta · 03-30-2010, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Demon

While Bush is undoubtedly guilty of this, I'm almost positive Obama has expanded government control by more than Bush, after only 2 years. You have 18,000 more IRS agents and government intervention in health care. You also have a rapid expansion of the public sector, especially government jobs in D.C.

lol ... the document that fueled that rumor spread across the conservative blogs :

http://republicans.waysandmeans.hous...wer_Report.pdf

Just an opinion ...

czarina · 03-30-2010, 02:13 PM

why is everybody so scared of socialism? I agree that it s*cks but it beats the daylights out of Nazism and I don't see anybody going nuts about all the new xenophobia in the world and the US.

u-Bob · 03-30-2010, 02:52 PM

Actually it's a form of Corporatism....

mgtarheels · 03-30-2010, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by borked

So are police, fire, road, vaccination services. Would you like them privatised as well?

You should not group social essentials with socialism.

Half of those are not essentials, and yes, they are socialist programs.
I never gave an opinion on how I feel about a socialist state, stop jumping the gun.

u-Bob · 03-30-2010, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by borked

So are police, fire, road, vaccination services. Would you like them privatised as well?

yes, competition = lower prices and better quality.

will76 · 03-30-2010, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J. Falcon

If taxation/spending was a hallmark of socialism, then every single government since the dawn of time has been socialistic.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism

http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/Socialism.html

thanks captain obvious. If you go back and read more than the first 3 words of my sentence you would understand what what I was saying. yes, i know taxing people is a common practice by governments through out history, now try reading the rest of the sentence.

Quote:

Originally Posted by czarina

why is everybody so scared of socialism? I agree that it s*cks but it beats the daylights out of Nazism and I don't see anybody going nuts about all the new xenophobia in the world and the US.

thanks but I will stick with capitalism opposed to socialism. Last I checked we weren't killing jewish people here in the US, so I don't think we have anything to worry about becoming Nazis any time soon.

borked · 03-30-2010, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by u-Bob

yes, competition = lower prices and better quality.

I disagree and here is a very valid reason -
about 20 years the British govt privatised the rail service (and all public transport soon thereafter). Since then,

the railway network infrastructure was owned by Railtrack that went into administration sometime in the early 2000s and is now owned by Network Rail which is part private, part Govt owned.

Franchising the 20 odd so new train operators was given to some pathetic deadhead (can't remember name) that was handed over to the (un)"Strategic Rail Authority" that couldn't distribute candie to kids so that was given (back) to the Dept for Transport at the govt (and sub-handed to the welsh and scottish govts for their train operators)

I've no idea how many times train operators have changed hands, especially for specific routes, but many are still using old rolling stock that pre-date privatisation

Has service improved? Ask any Brit if they are happy with their rail service and prices? I doubt you'll find many saying it's great value for money and reliable and clean.

On the other side of the coin, and channel, there is a public rail service that is extremely efficient, runs to schedule (try a 800km train ride that arrives at the station to the exact minute it is supposed to), is clean, and very fairly priced. The rail network there is extremely well connected to all places in France and the rest of Europe and is an infrastructure that the French are (rightly) proud of.

u-Bob · 03-31-2010, 06:14 AM

In a true free-market system, competition will always deliver lower prices and better quality. The neoliberal privatizations (like the one you mentioned) of the last +- 50 years failed to create and weren't even designed to create true free-market conditions. A mix of corruption, government subsidies, selling infrastructure built with 'government funds' at non-market prices and a kind of entrepreneurial short-sidedness that wouldn't even be possible in a free-market system, are responsible for the problems you described.

03-30-2010, 02:11 PM	#55
borked Totally Borked Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 6,284	Not socialism, but solidarity, but there was something on the news this evening that was heart warming.... A guy had a young son that was dying of cancer and he was determined to spend his son's last days at his bedside. He had already used his XX days of vacation to be at his bedside, yet his son hadn't died. All his co-workers asked the union then management to back them in "cashing in" their holidays to give to the guy so he could be with his son. Union didn't even have to intervene because the company agreed (Badoit, a major international company, like Evian). He used their holidays and his son died on 31st Dec last year. The guy was management and was taking vacation handouts from the workers (and being accepted by even more senior management) that were beneath him. I know this has got absolutely sod all to do with a socialist government, but it's got everything to do with 100% solidarity amongst workers, which a left wing mind tends to flourish. __________________ For coding work - hit me up on andy // borkedcoder // com (consider figuring out the email as test #1) All models are wrong, but some are useful. George E.P. Box. p202

03-30-2010, 12:25 PM	#52
The Demon Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 7,336	No, we laugh at his failed attempts to sound intelligent by throwing out concepts.

03-30-2010, 02:13 PM	#57
czarina Webmaster Extraordinaire Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: A beautiful beach... Posts: 10,748	why is everybody so scared of socialism? I agree that it s*cks but it beats the daylights out of Nazism and I don't see anybody going nuts about all the new xenophobia in the world and the US.

03-30-2010, 02:52 PM	#58
u-Bob there's no $$$ in porn Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: icq: 195./568.-230 (btw: not getting offline msgs) Posts: 33,063	Actually it's a form of Corporatism....

03-31-2010, 06:14 AM	#63
u-Bob there's no $$$ in porn Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: icq: 195./568.-230 (btw: not getting offline msgs) Posts: 33,063	In a true free-market system, competition will always deliver lower prices and better quality. The neoliberal privatizations (like the one you mentioned) of the last +- 50 years failed to create and weren't even designed to create true free-market conditions. A mix of corruption, government subsidies, selling infrastructure built with 'government funds' at non-market prices and a kind of entrepreneurial short-sidedness that wouldn't even be possible in a free-market system, are responsible for the problems you described.