SZNY

I totally agree with you.

Freeloaders are totally different compared with members who what's to have some nice 1:1 time with a girl and are willing to spend good money for it.

Each site has its own strategy and business model. Most of the cam sites are aiming on having as much models online while they are mostly working on X sites at the same time.

My personal aim/target is more focussed on quality instead of quantity using some new technology and trying a different approach.

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lazycash

Nothing on cam4 is pre recorded, its all amateurs so you're going to get some fuglys.

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lazycash

Yes, most of them are highly engaged with the audience in free chat. The genius of MFC is the flexibility of the system. You can take any girl for 1 on 1 private at any time just like you would a tradition ppv cam site. You can also enter into a group mode whereby a few customers can split the cost of a private. Girls can also perform in free chat instead of private and are usually rewarded with tips. What the camgirls like about the system is that they get to choose how they want to get paid. Some girls only do private and won't show in free chat, while others refuse to do privates and rely solely on tips from performing in free chat. The girls who seem to make the most generally start off showing tits and teasing in free chat and the tips start flowing in to show more or to do things like squirt or get in the shower. MFC also allows girls to promote their own sites, so girls will perform and broadcast their own url in chat or watermark it to their cam.

I've been monitoring MFC for the last year, its actually been around a lot longer than that. What I've noticed is there is a large drop off in earnings after about the top 15 girls, although this generally applies to most cam networks. MFC has a rating system whereby the higher rated models are pushed to the front of the list and are seen first. Many of the lesser attractive girls will sit in free chat mode refusing to show and they won't get a private for hours and are usually gone within a couple of months. I've also seen very average girls who would probably make next to nothing on a traditional cam network, make a killing on MFC because they are willing to do hardcore shows for free and they rake in the tips.

Over the last six months, I've watched at least 20 of the top camgirls from a variety of networks jump ship and try MFC. Most notably, I've seen 6 of the top earners on a long time well known cam site come to MFC recently. I've watched girls perform their weekly 1 hour show for Camz which they do free to market their own site, while simultaneously broadcasting the show on MFC and take in tips. I've seen lots of custom scripts made to compete with MFC, but nobody has been able to bring anything substantial to the table that I've seen. I'm just surprised that none of the well established cam programs haven't put out a similar product, probably because it would greatly conflict with their existing main site.

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Stef.

i say LOL and WOW and THANKS !

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mmcfadden

i've just spent 4 hours on myfreecams... good stuff

FrozenJag

I remember when Keezah the creator of Pornhub said that the next huge things was free cams and that the tube boom was over. Guy is fucking smart you gotta admit. Even if he did fuck us all in the ass for the most part.

FreeHugeMovies

How much skim does operator take? How do they verify the girls are legal?

mmcfadden

I am guessing here but I would say 40% is what is taken.

That's what I would... and will, take when I get something like that up.

DigitalTheory

They do the whole scanned photo id's, i have an account on there and while it said it takes "24+ hours to verify" I got verified instantly. I do not think they really enforce it much, I see a lot of fake pictures on profiles on there, I know a few of the camwithhergirls (or ex cwh girls) work on that site also under different names and make good money, but they get fucked big time when they do any hardcore in free chat, they get suspended for i dunno how long and get some of their earnings taken away. It is also a 50% split..

jackknoff

I really wasn't impressed with MFC. Too many lurkers and models pandering for tips, and in some cases I thought (but could not verify cause the model wouldn't respond) were pre-recorded vids. Overall I thought it provided a negative user experience. If you're there for the the free stuff, then it's awesome, but if you want some individual attention, forget about it... MFC has a good setup, but there's def room for improvement. That's just my two cents...

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FreeHugeMovies

So you can only tease on free chat and all hardcore has to be in private?

ShellyCrash

I have heard there is this test....

I don't want to give away any industry secrets but it involves shoes.



It is the only way you can truly know for sure.

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FrozenJag

So who makes the script? Everybody wants one now im sure.

DigitalTheory

That is the "rule" they only enforce after the fact, or if model a hates on model b and goes and cries i guess =\ i heard some models complaining about it in their chat rooms a few times.

will76

You sound like someone who would pay for a private show. While some girls offer private shows, as LazyCash pointed out, the rest of the site is as you experienced it. 100's of people in the same room, no way the girl could talk to all of them even if she wanted to, her focused on tips. IE. people who can't afford, nor care about doing a private show. And a lot of free loaders who get excited because some dude named Joe gave the girl 100 tokens to take her shirt off. btw, joe would have never spent a penny in his life on a regular ppm site.

MFC makes a lot of money, because it found a good segment of the market to appeal to. The only people who think a site like this will kill all ppm cam sites is someone who obviously doesn't understand ppm cam sites and isn't a regular user of them.

this isn't chat roulette or cam4, you need to know a little more about cam sites then just throwing some programming on a page and sending traffic to it. PPM Cam sites are the hardest sites out there to do.

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FrozenJag

What if one wanted to take a serious look at it? Any scripts or advice?

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Paul Markham

Good post. Paysites have been stuck in the mud with no thought of what they sell other than getting more people to view it and say no. This could of been inside paysites years ago why isn't it? Ask sponsors without live shows. www.paulmarkhamteens.com includes them.

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Paul Markham

Are they fullup?

I got this page this morning.

Unless being in CZ bans me from viewing it.

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Kevsh

Said it before in yet another thread about MFC, but I'll repeat here anyway:

MFC is to McDonald's what premium chat sites are to fine restaurants. Some want cheap, fast good, others want the full dining experience. There will always be a market for both and neither is going to put the other out of business.

Paul Markham

True. It will screw sites offering a McDonald's level to porn and put the better ones on a firmer footing.

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ilnjscb

There is a lot of DP et. al. on the free part of MFC. Personally I think they are raking. I see quite a few porn girls there. Several girls actively promote their paysites and surfers tip for hardcore clips. If they keep that open market feel and continue to let the girls be entrepreneurial they'll continue to do well. It's about being the meta-market, right?

lazycash

You can show everything in free chat, but supposedly insertion and other hardcore acts should be in private. However, I've seen just about everything in free chat, so I suspect its as DT said, where they let most of it slide.

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lazycash

Yes some countries are banned from viewing.

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lazycash

You can take any of the girls private at any time, unless the model does not want to go private (which is rare). Generally, only about the top 5-10 girls on the list at any given time will have over 100 in their room. Scan down the list and you'll find most have less than 10 people in their room and you can get an immediate dialogue going. Many of the girls turn off chat from "basics", which refers to those who are on the site as a guest or the very bottom tier registration.

Some of you seem to be suggesting that the traditional ppv customer can't get the same experience on MFC and I disagree. I view MFC not as a cheap cut down version, but a more advanced version of the traditional ppv model. The models have more flexibility to do what works for them and the customer has more flexibility to spend how he wants to. I've talked to customers on MFC that have spent well over 5k without ever going private because they enjoy rewarding the camgirl for her efforts and making everyone else happy also.

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Agent 488

i think the best course of action is to dismiss outright whatever one cannot understand.

lazycash

I probably would have used that analogy a year ago with MFC, but not now. Their site and system have been refined and the quality of their models is greatly improved. I will certainly concur with you on the "less expensive" aspect, but at MFC you can also still get the full dining experience as you put it. I do think that MFC is somewhat of a threat to traditional ppv cam sites, simply put, they offer the same thing and more.

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will76

They might propose a threat to other cam sites from the aspect of getting more market share and hurting other sites profits, but they don't pose a threat to the pay per minute model of going private and personal attention. There will always people people who only want to do private shows and not do group shows.

I haven't spent as much time on myfreecams as much as you have but the time I have spent there it gave me the impression that it is popular for people who are 1, looking for something for free, 2, will spend but don't have a lot of money. Basically the "non premium" spenders on the net. The middle to lower class spenders. Sure some people hit their site and do go private and spend lots of money because then can. Sites like cam4 offer free to get the traffic then upsell with ads. MFC's keeps it all in house, they offer free to get the traffic, then offer multiple ways for people of all income levels to spend.

However, myFREEcams i believe will always carry the stigma of being a site for the lower end spenders and people looking for free. While you are 100% right they do offer the ability to do private shows, the basis of the site is the free shows and tipping. That's their niche, that is the people they attract. They will get some potential big spenders mixed in through the door that they will then upsell to themselves with private shows vs upselling them to ads like a cam4 would do.

I like my analogy I made earlier of a strip club but can alter it a little based off what you and I said in the last couple posts.

MFC is like a strip club that offers no cover, no drink minimum, and when you come in there is a large group of guys crowed around a stage with a couple girls dancing on it. Some guys with a fist full of ones, others just kicking back watching. If you want to go to a private room or get a lap dance you can then make your way through the crowd grab one of these girls and go in the back with them.

Tradional PPM Cam sites are like a strip club that has a $10 cover, 1 drink minimum and no pole dancers. You walk into a quiet place, find your favorite girl and go right to the private room and have fun with her. If you want to chat before or after you can do so in a nice quiet setting.

Typically, if given the choice between the two, the people with a good bit of money to spend are going to go to the place just for people like them. Where they know the girls aren't pandering to the masses and giving anything away free. For most of the bigger spenders its the mentality, the power trip, that they know they are doing what a lot of people can't do. That this is "their girl" and not some two bit chat host begging for tokens so 100 guys can see her tits.

Maybe I can't explain it as good as I like but i have received great feed back from some big whales over the years and with these guys they don't want cheap, don't want to be around cheap, want what everyone else can't have etc... SO i just don't see a lot of them (if given the choice) to go to a site like MFC to try to find girls there to take private. I think they would stick to more traditional ppm sites.

The people you saw spend $500 on tips to girls on MFC, they would have done the same on a ppm cam site. A lot of ppm cam sites don't offer this among other things to allow the guys to give the girls "extras". But they should. So many ppm cam sites miss the boat on several other features they can offer to make more money.

I'm not knocking MFC, i think its a great concept, but I don't see them excelling in every sector of the cam niche. I think they are carving out a great area in between a cam4.com and a cams.com . They will make some money from private shows, but I see their bread and butter from the group shows and tips from free shows.

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ICQ: 86364801 Email: will [at] innovativeassets [dot] com

will76

I would change his analogy slightly to saying MFC is like Mc Donalds, that also offers steak sandwiches. Most people go there for the cheap burgers, and some might get the steak sandwich, but most people who want a good steak isn't going to eat at Mc Donalds to get one.

There is nothing wrong with McDonalds they make a shit load of money.

__________________
ICQ: 86364801 Email: will [at] innovativeassets [dot] com

lazycash

I agree with just about everything in your post and your strip club analogy is good. I know MFC isn't going to threaten the bigger cam sites as just another ppm site. The cam customer who likes to develop a mini relationship with the model, get to know her and become her regular spender probably would only be mildly interested in MFC. I do think the segment of the cam audience that gets all worked up randomly stumbling upon a model and pays simply to see the model undress and perform would be highly interested in MFC and would realize he can now get for free or at a steep discount what he was paying much more for before.

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VGeorgie

I think some of you are missing the OP's point.

It's not that MFC does or doesn't have a brilliant model. Or that the model benefits consumers, the girls, and the program itself. Or that there will always be whales willing to pay $100s or $1000s a month on private cam shows.

Rather, it's that MFC is giving away more free explicit content in its free delivery, and is clearly being successful at its business. So, it's only a matter of time before other cam sites do the same, only more, in order to be competitive.

The tubes should have taught us a lesson: this is a business of one-upmanship, to the point of shitting where you eat. Today, MFC may have a great model, but in a year when 20 other cam operators are doing the same, only showing more and more for free, that's the problem. At first tubes seemed like a good idea, too.

It's been pointed out MFC doesn't have an affiliate program, because they don't need to. So imagine more and more free cams, showing increasingly explicit content to get the business, and few of them with an affiliate model.

Where does this leave the affiliate marketer? I guess extolling the virtues of someone else's idea. Certainly not able to make any money off it.

mmcfadden

Well the difference is live girls... it's hard to steal live girls and put them on a site without them making money. Not enough money to keep the girls happy in advertising/tube model.

mikesinner

Buying some tokens now.

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lazycash

Agree, nice post.

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lazycash

Not sure what you mean, but the live girls on MFC in most cases are making more than they were on the regular big cam sites and yet in many instances are getting naked before any money is exchanged.

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mmcfadden

i'm saying that the biz model (that of MFC and offsprings of that concept) are not set out to be doomed from the start because it is very difficult to steal live girls who want to make a living. Tubes on the other hand just need to steal content and bam... tube up

VGeorgie

Forget live girls. That's not the point.

Think cams giving away a ton of free content, and without affiliates. If it works for MFC, why wouldn't it work for others? How does an affiliate-free model work for the bulk of people here?

Even if some cam sponsors kept the affiliate model, once they begin giving away more explicit content - and they will to remain competitive - it means lower overall sales, because at least some percentage of the buyers will satisfy themselves with fewer live shows.

Or put it this way: If a guy used to spend $25 a week at a cam spot in order to get interactivity AND graphic content, if he gets pseudo-interactive and graphic content for free there's no reason to suspect he'll continue to drop $25 a week. He'll continue to spend, but it won't be at the same levels, because at least some of his needs are taken care of at no $$ to him.

mmcfadden

It's yet to be seen.

Regarding affiliate model... you have a point. If the site is just that good it will get the traffic.

However, I'm not sure about the $25 guy. I had the browser open for a long time yesterday and girls continuously got taken into private, groups, whatever. 10 tokens to 200 tokens were commonly tipped. Also, blocking the chat is a big deal, people want to chat... its the allure of the live cam girls. So these guys are forced to buy a min. of $20 in tokens. Now they chat and throw a tip and the girl gives him all the attention.

I like the concept... The best thing is when other sites pop up and try to offer more and more and it effects the buying, the girls will leave because they are not making enough.

The girls almost seem to keep the biz plan in check

VGeorgie

Not saying they don't have a winning formula. Obviously they're doing something right, AND without affiliates. I join the chorus congratulating them.

In this model, the girls are essentially the affiliates, and doing all the hard work of converting looky-loos to paying customers. They SHOULD be the ones getting the money, not some IW who simply threw some hits at the site.

But on to the downtrend to spending: there's no where to go but down the more you give away. It's simple human nature to prefer free to paid. Yes, there will *always* be those wanting to go private, and will pay, but that percentage HAS to go down as cam spots stumble over themselves to maintain revenue levels, and end up giving anyway more and more.

Witness what's happening on the tubes. They're fighting themselves for eyeballs, and even the so-called legit ones are doing so by adding more and longer videos. There isn't a week that goes by here when someone doesn't ask about sponsors with 5-10 minute clips. Since it takes most men less than 10 minutes to orgasm during masturbation it doesn't require many free clips to do the trick.

GrouchyAdmin

If I wanted to see semi-hot chicks doing nothing but giving disgusted looks while smoking and listening to music, I'd return to high school.

I clicked over 10, and they were all dead channels with chicks doing nothing until their 'base' was paid with about 20 dormant users. Great use of bandwidth.

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HandballJim

they don't have Japanese girls....and Japanese Girls are the hottest.

I guess that free cam website will not hurt what I promote...

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Socks

What software is used on these kinds of sites to do the video streaming?

babebuns

hey sabby shut the fuck up you wrecked pussy whore

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Mutt

nice to see so many GFYers spending hours per day on MFC under the guise of 'research'

if anybody has developed or is developing MFC type software let me know, i'm interested.

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Mutt

Flash streaming - either Flash Media Server, Red 5 which is open source or Wowza

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So simple but genius.

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AlphaSky

That's the problem. Men think "giving it away free" is the answer, and it's not. If women ran the adult industry, we wouldn't give anything away for free. Make them all pay for it. These idiot men giving away so much free stuff are chopping their own heads off.

Free, free, free. The death of paysites everywhere. What moron came up with the idea of free porn? lol

We often ask young people in bars about porn online, and in the last 6 months, we've must've asked at least 40 guys the same question, "do you buy porn online?" EVERY answer was the same...... "Who buys porn anymore?" and "Porn is free now, I would never pay for it."

Every year the newer generations are getting more savy and know they can get off online for free now. Tubes, free cams, and the millions of free tgp's. It's a slow dwindling cycle of the end of the online adult industry. Making money in porn will be like owning a dry cleaners. Sure, you can make some money, but you'll be working everyday, long hours, while the world passes you by outside your window.

Denial is spreading to those clinging on to this dying industry.