Vjo

Not selling nothing here just a little food for thought.

There seems to be three categories of adult domains now days.

1) Top quality one or two word domains with decent type ins
2) Developed domains
3) Undeveloped domains

For example, these domains are considered worthless:

toesuckingtube.com
footfreaktube.com
footfreakstube.com

They are niche and undeveloped and will expire in two days. I offered them for $25 on buy and sell a week back with no offers. That is not the point. I am not mad or nothing. (Just thought someone might want them cheap)

The point is how can some guys think their 3 word tube undeveloped domains, (actually conjoined two word like footfreak and toesucking) I see priced around here, (and some are not as good as these) are worth $1000+ (many upwards of $5000-$10,000 when I cant give these away.)

Are they that bad. : ) No. Just that nobody will pay much for undeveloped domains now days with the value of typeins down.

It is all about developed or not developed. porn303.com is about 11000 on alexa and look at the domain.

Kind of sad what the aftermarket for undeveloped (typein) domains has become. With work toesucking.com can be profitable. Without the work.. you get the point. No major typeins or developement, no buyers.

I may let these go. Said I would. Have about 48 hours to decide.

I will prob keep them although I'll have to pay $15 at DirectNic vs $8 at Moniker where I did NOT transfer them to a week back.

Why didnt I transfer them? Because I agree with the 50 guys who viewed my thread at buy/sell. Without development most domains are essentially worthless incuding these and I dont plan on developing them so..

Times in the "adult undeveloped domain world" are a changing.

Barefootsies

There are a lot of factors that go into domains and pricing.

For me, I do not need a one or two word phrase to get 1st page SERPS. I want something that generally has good, highly searched, keywords in the title. So let's say foot fetish is what I am looking at.

I would consider footfetishonline, footfetishclips, myfootfetish, footfetishnetwork or something to that effect. If that is the phrase I want, I will work many combinations to find some phrase that makes sense, and has the keywords I am targeting.

Some look at domains and will pick this one word shitters that make absolutely no sense and have no relation to the product or content they are selling. Their only rationale will be, 'it's short' as why they are preferring to use it. Which to me is insane.

Domains are like many things in this industry. Subjective to who is willing to buy it and the price willing to pay for it. As for the seller, that also comes down to how badly they want to move it. If you want $5k for some domain, you may need to sit on that shit for 90+ days. If you want to move it, you sell it for $1000.00.

A lot of things, especially high ticket items, come down to building value or selling. Otherwise, it can be a waiting game. You may have a good domain, and decent asking price, but you may have to hold it for a while until someone is interested in paying your price point.

That's why some hire brokers.

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Enough Said.

"Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

Vjo

Thanks BF. Really nice post. Appreciate it.

One thing I noticed is niche domains used to be highly sought after but I find selling my mainstream porn domains (general stuff) much easier than niche like foot, shemale, ect. Perhaps because there are more buyers for mainstream porn. Perhaps because the tube game is more about numbers than quality traffic.

They want a domain (not nec a tube domain) but a domain that is broad sweeping. Like for example hotandslutty.com .. I dropped the price just a tad and boom sold immediately. Not esp a super domain but very workable in todays market. Same with some other generic stuff sold fast while the niche stuff.. I keep lowering prices..

But, yeah it is a waiting game between buyer and seller. If they smell desperation they will wait me out.

gleem

domains are worth what someone is willing to pay for them. Simple as that.

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Vjo

so true but so hard to put my head around.

What that means is:

- do NOT fix price
- shop them to as many as possible with open prices (make me an offer)
- take what you can get over a reasonable time (say a year)

If you can get some high exposure with open pricing then you get what you get, if anything.

It prob wont be what you wanted but is selling anything ever all one sided. You have to give people deals. But rather than, again fix pricing a lower deal, maybe just leave it open on all.. make offer.

Sedo will tell you fixed pricing sells quicker but I am starting to wonder if that is a good overall strategy esp for modestly priced domains at $100 to $300 range or less.

My friend (the guy who picked the Colts over the Saints, lol I kid him but he is a great biz man) tells me domains are selling for $100 - $125. I dont know where he pulled that from, he isnt even in the biz or can barely work a computer but he is major street savvy.

That price is about right actually from my experience for a decent undeveloped. lol

Barefootsies

Most people do not understand niche. More over, they do not think they can SELL niche content. I have run into that myself last year when licensing some of my foot fetish and tickling content.

I posted up conversion and sales numbers for site(s) using the content, and retention ratios (similar to that pay site tube I sold earlier this month with 48% retention) over the years on the various sites and people would be impressed. However, in the next breath would say they did not understand the niche, nor could think they could sell it. They would have to learn how to target and drive a niche market they were unfamiliar with.

I can see that to some degree. I would not have the first fucking clue about mainstream porn selling in comparison to my own markets. I know where the forums, link lists, golden quality converting traffic comes from, how to work my SERPS and so on.

Where in some other more mainstream markets, I would not have the first fucking clue. Which is why many stick to what they know, and are passionate about. It makes it easier, and you know how to crop and image, word your descriptions, and cater to that market.

So when you get into fetish, you are getting more specialized and you really need to know, and understand that market. Good quality converting content with a track record is nice. But if you do not know how to target those buying customers, it does not mean shit.

That said, fetish markets are awesome if you know what you are doing. Retention is high. Quality content converts. You are going to have a lot less traffic, but your conversion ratios should be lovely. Plus a decent site, with consistent updates and library should retain fairly well by comparison to mainstream porn.

Some, not all, are wary of niche markets because it requires more targeting and is more specialized then a bigger mainstream porn site. It typically requires 'some' knowledge, or understanding, of the market.

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"Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

Argos88

There are a LOT.. and I mean a LOT of good adult domains available for free.. because many webmasters quit adult and leave those domains available.

I registered one the other day that got PR3 in 1 month period and is getting a decent amount of traffic. And I only invested 7 bucks and 15 minutes to register it.

.

Vjo

Again well said. The thing is footfetish is a pretty narrow niche and yes to sell it you have to.. like female feet.. really like them and that narrows the market to sell to quite a bit.

Upside: Traffic converts, not much competition.

I think any truly decent domain will be worth way more in 20 years. The q is what is truly decent what isnt. That is the pain staking process many must go through.

I look at myself. Am I buying more domains lately? No. There ya go.

Will I ever buy heavily again. I doubt it. Thankfully I have a few domains that can be used by paysites (I wont name em) but paysites are more my hope than affils to sell my domains to.

Cause what is an affil going to do with a low traffic typein domain except develope it? Only those highly marketable as paysites or very brandable for affils wanting a certain site still should sell eventually.

But many (once considered ok) undeveloped typein domains (say 200-300/month) dont have so much chance anymore.

Barefootsies

I think it depends on your skill set to be honest.

I do not need a top level domain to be able to sell my pay sites and make them convert or retain. Nor do I need it to get the 1st page SERPS for various relevant keyword terms in my niche. However, some feel a domain name is the 'key' to branding. You must have a good one, or it is a FAILURE.

No one runs a donut shop the exact same way, and online is about the same. Some think that a domain is the key, some the content, some being able to generate traffic. More over, quality converting traffic regardless of the niche or market. Still others think it's some pretty high end design for the web site, or join page.

Are they all right? Are they all wrong? It is a mix of them all? You be the judge.

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"Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

Vjo

Congrats.

Very good point. Just a saturated to the max market.

Terrible time to sell.

The market is so bad.. how bad is it?..

it is so bad i wish I would of just said fuck it from the word go. Try instead maybe in 2-3 years

Vjo

Again another good angle. Exactly. So out of the domain market only maybe 25% of affils esp (and that is being generous to the new porn303 generation) actually feel like a decent domain name is needed. By decent say bigtitvideos.com vs tits404.com

In the old day the choice was clear. Today I dont disagree why pay $200 lets say for bigtitvideos.com when the world is avail IF you have to develope it anyhow. Therein lies the rub for the old schoolers.

Vjo

Good group.

I wouldn't have been such a dreamer IF I sold em back in 08 AS my friend told me. lol True he said sell.

Should I ask him the best sources for traffic and what niches are selling. lol

Anyhow, we aint all Don*ld Tr*mp when it comes to biz decisions. (Better protect that name, maybe someday some rich tycoon will sweep porn off it's feet..)

.. dreamer..

NaughtyRob

You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one.

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alias

I am good at finding unregistered domains that suite my needs, others may not be as into this idea or want something aged that has at least some track record. Perhaps they are too busy, they will buy.

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Agent 488

Vjo

Arrowsmith - Dream On (can someone find it, all I see our covers that don't cut it)

in the mean time

Vjo

it would help if I spelled it.. Aerosmith instead of Arrowsmith

Anyhow that is EVERYTHING you ever wanted to know about domains.

You are wrong old hyphenated typo breath

LoveSandra

.............................................

u-Bob

Forkbeard

I got a lot of 2-keyword BDSM-niche domains. Many of them are very nice-sounding and could be easily developed, which is what I work on when I'm not fucking around on GFY or playing my internet spaceship game.

My current experience is that there isn't much market for undeveloped domains that don't get multiple-hundreds of type-in traffic, not right now. There has been in the past (people want the combo of brandability plus an easier SEO job) and I think there will be in the future, but right now it doesn't matter how cheap you price them, they aren't moving.

I personally would rather hold a domain like asscanings.com (to throw a dartboard at my portfolio at random) than sell it for $25 or $100. It got like 150 page views last month, about half type-ins and the rest from search. My stats aren't granular enough to tell me if it paid for itself, but I'm maintaining my portfolio without outside cash so far. There's enough value in the traffic that I just don't feel any incentive to sell for peanuts. And nobody's buying at higher prices. Would I sell that domain for a grand? Probably. But there are probably cheaper alternatives available.

I drip a few domains out on NameCheap Marketplace every now and then, mostly portfolio-cleanings that don't match my always-changing views of what's good to own. Sometimes they sell, mostly they don't. It's all good. I believe in business cycles, and I believe we're in the bottom of one. Whether it takes an economic upturn or another as-yet-unforseen structural change in the porn business (more likely both), I dunno. But unless the internet changes how it works first (possible but, I think, unlikely) a big pile of nice domains will be a valuable asset the next time the cycle turns up.

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DaddyHalbucks

Yes, but a few dreamers sometimes hit it BIG.

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DateDoc

Sellers want to maximize their profit while buyers want to minimize their cost. A lot of the domain prices you see from sellers are what I would call "ideal" prices. Prices that make them very happy. If you see a domain you like make an offer that you are comfortable with. You'll be surprised how many times you'll get a deal worked out that you are happy with.

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BlackCrayon

adult domains are harder to sell today than say 5 years ago. at least that is my experience.

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BlackCrayon

many more just lose a bunch of money and leave though.

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woj

that's just how the business works, you make money by scoring big...

registering a domain for $10, and flipping it for $20 will never make you any money...

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onwebcam

The happy medium between buyer and seller..

Names are still selling and there's still a living to be made in it. As with anything tha's not on government payroll/contract or bailout times are rough.

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Vjo

Thanks. Real good points by all.

Very nice post. Appreciate it. [the two paragraphs above rang a bell]

Yeah at this time it is prob not smart to sell even if you do need the money. You'll def get taken. I'm probably going to go with the "hang on to them and maybe the market will chg again" theory. Because indeed you can't get a fair price at this time on the lesser quality domains that are still too good to let expire.

Thx U-Bob. Nice read.

As Rick S said: "a good domain will outlive us all." The key seems to be determining what is truly a good domain and then pricing it as you see it so you don't get ripped during this down time and then waiting out the buyers until the cycle changes.

Couple points that stuck out:

[Start Rick S]

Rick S: "I have asked one question now for a decade. Can anyone name me an investment that was available to all and went up faster than domain names in value other than a lottery ticket??

Gold?? Took thousands of years to get to $1000 an ounce. Diamonds? Real Estate?

Like anything else, domains are a market. Markets go up and markets go down. But the foundation for premium dotcom domain names is more solid than any other single investment on planet earth."

---

Rick S: "My answer for the last 15 years has been to buy great domain names and that seems to be more solid than anything I have ever been involved with. Just don’t buy garbage. I see investment quality domains laying around for $500, $1000, $2000 and I see domains with little or no value fetch much more."

[End Rick S]

This seems to be the deal for most real buyers. They want domains that are truly good rather than lesser domains that pretty much need developing to be anything. They may have potential but need developing before they really can be sold. The big buyers seem to want truly long range good domains with no speculation or developement needs attached to the sale.

And this sort of goes along with the above. Find out what are truly your good domains and don't give em away. But the "so so decent" undeveloped.. (stuff getting less than 200 typeins/month but still a good domain in the past) Maybe hang on and hope the market improves. At least at $8.00 (Moniker) the price to hold them isnt too bad.

Amen.

Vjo

I was going to quote something you said a year back in my orig post. When I first decided to begin selling (about a year back) I read where you posted "the market is terrible and it's a bad time to sell" [paraphrased]

I knew that was true. But I wish I would have listened to you and my gut. Because it was indeed and is indeed a terrible time to sell.

I got some exposure which I suppose is good but it can be discouraging to keep lowering prices and still noone buys. Plus pretty much a waste of time. At least I got a handle on my portfolio and got that work over.

Isnt that the way markets go. Things sell when the markets are good (and you prob don't need the money) and things dont sell when you actually could use the money. Sort of a catch 22 of business principles I guess.

BlackCrayon

Ricks experience is not that of the average buyer. he is one lucky/smart dude who got in in 1997. he sold porn.com...you can't apply his senario to nearly anyone else.

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PornMD

There's a lot of factors involved.

- Generic vs. Brandable...if generic, usually a domain would need at least SOME searches per month on the search engines for them to be desirable, but ones with that are desirable given the potential traffic from search on the term itself and anything containing it. Brandable domains don't, but beauty of them is then definitely in the eye of the beholder, and quality brandables end up being harder to sell than quality generics.
- Extension...kind of goes without saying - some people won't even consider anything other than .com, some will look at higher quality names in weaker gTLDs or in strong ccTLDs, and some will look at single-word power words in obscure ccTLDs.
- Size/profitability of niche the domain involved...the more potential buyers for a name, the more likelihood it will sell compared to an equivalent quality domain in a smaller or lesser profitable niche with fewer players.
- Demand, which is low right now in adult given tubes are making it harder to make money in adult
- Supply, which is high right now in adult as a lot of adult names have dropped and a lot of webmasters are selling domains/sites they may not have otherwise due to needing money
- Price...a lot of domains don't sell because they're simply not priced very well, which includes domains priced at $20 - $50 that simply weren't worth the reg money to begin with
- Expertise/experience of seller, including how to entice people to buy, conveyance of value of the domains, when/where the names are posted, negotiation skills, reputation, trust/feedback on places that have it, etc.

There's probably more but these are off the top of my head.

Exactly. I'm more impressed with anyone who has gotten in within the past 5 years making a living doing it. (I myself got in about 6 years ago)

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Vjo

Also he mostly buys mainstream (I think) now. But he fired a lot of us up back then. The mistake many of us made was buying too many porn and not enuff mainstream.

I've made every mistake twice.

I sometimes wonder if big buyers like Rick have ANY faith in moderately decent undeveloped porn .coms.

Obviously Rick isnt monkeying around with "moderately decent". But in general the state of porn doesnt exactly shine like a beacon of light on the undeveloped porn domain.

As someone (ForkBeard I think) eluded to we really need a change in "press" in the way the state of adult is seen.

Some of us are still making money but the "state of adult" is not good and that has to change for values to ever come back. (for "moderatly decent" domains which is many. Obviously the "bigtits.com voyeurporn.com ect are exempt and will always sell)

Vjo

Damn good post PornMD.

"and quality brandables end up being harder to sell than quality generics."

So true.

"- Size/profitability of niche the domain involved...the more potential buyers for a name, the more likelihood it will sell compared to an equivalent quality domain in a smaller or lesser profitable niche with fewer players."

Exactly.

Vjo

Agreed. Prob the top 10 most talented guys in adult.. 7 of them started last 5 years 70%

The main advantage early guys had that they could carry forward was type in domains. If you got some real biggies you are set but those went quick (single word, 1995, 1996 at the latest) and most guys didnt get that much for type ins. Only the very best and usually single words get any real serious typeins. A few two word get decent but most two word get moderate typeins.