The long hard war against piracy and ideas to win back out industry.

[Paul Markham]

At last people are really taking piracy seriously and doing something about it. The fight has started on one level, it has to be taken on by many more and taken to more levels. The time of sitting back is over. If you want to survive in this business.

The long term aim of companies like Mansef is probably to eliminate the competition as much as possible. To create an industry dominated by 10 to 20 companies. By doing this they could also eliminate most affiliates and the need to give away loads of free content. They are not stupid and realise with few companies competing for traffic the need to give surfers everything for free is self defeating. The need for 1,000s of affiliates will also disappear.

So how can those still in the business fight against it?

Sponsors.

Members area have to be good enough to warrant a month or longer membership. Content of members areas has to improve in leaps and bounds. Members have to want to stay to see the next days additions. It will no longer work for sites to add poor porn quality content, members are not stupid and won't stay to see another scene that's the same as what's already on the site.

It's time for imagination, innovation and creativity to take over when creating porn. Also variation needs to be included in the mis. No matter how good it is, once the viewer has seen 30 scenes of girls being picked up on the roadside and fucked in the back of a van. Another one won't make the majority of members stay around. A diet of constant prime Angus Steak does boring after 30 days.

And the amount of models faking it has to be reduced. There were comments about models not being able to act. Many of them can't even fake a decent orgasm on file. They use the same old tired phrases over and over again. Depending on the girl they will either OOOH or AAAGH throughout the scene. Sometimes when no one is touching them. If a model can't deliver the goods, send her home. Because putting poor porn quality on a site isn't encouraging members to spend money.

You can fool some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time. But you can't fool all of the people all of the time. Especially if you're selling to a repeat buyer. He soon wises up.

Also IMO live shows of quality can be added. They can be chat like on a webcam, live scenes like we already shoot and the only thing holding it back is the imagination and creativity of the producer. It has to be good and the attitude of the more the better has to change. Often less is better.

All this will take money. Shooting content for cut price makes it tough to shoot anything worth while. From the early days sponsors were offering me $1500 for 5 set and video scenes. Fortunately I was able to tell them where to stick it, politely. But others who were not in my situation snapped it up and and churned out low quality content for those who thought it was right to sell crap.

Affiliates.

Sending traffic to anyone associated with major Tubes or piracy, either supporting, owning them or advertising on them is like sharpening the knife of the person about to assassinate you. Because when these companies have taken over the industry the last thing they will need to spend loads of money on is traffic. The surfer will have few options on who ends up with his money. Affiliates strength is in having 1,000 of sponsors competing for their traffic. If it becomes 20 companies, they can trade amongst themselves. Affiliates may disappear, surfers appetite for porn will not.

So don't send traffic to Brazzers, AFF or anyone else connected to piracy.

Support those who do fight against piracy. Support those delivering a good product to your traffic. Don't send traffic to people who will fuck you in the long run. They are just as bad as those who will shave.

This fight should of started 15 years ago. Ten years ago would of been great. Five would of been good. Today it has started. Who has the balls to take up arms?

Sorry for the long post but it has to be said.

[Davy]

cliff notes?

[Fbomb - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Im not reading all that.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Davy

cliff notes?

Originally Posted by Fbomb

Im not reading all that.

Reasons why the business is in the shitter. People too lazy to read for 5 minutes.

[Probono]

Paul, if the the program of shutting down the free pirate sites continues then the market will indeed regenerate. I suspect a good portion of the people using GFY will celebrate. Others here are the pirates and they will mourn.

After more than a dozen years in this industry I would like to see the revenue stream back to where innovation and experimentation can once again be funded by honest webmasters.

[Agent 488]

lets go back to betamax and mags in plastic bags and maybe people will buy your content again.

[Agent 488]

how do i take someones reputation points away?

[candyflip]

We'll have to wait and see what sort of judgements, if any, they receive before you can say something is being done.

[quiet]

Originally Posted by Agent 488

how do i take someones reputation points away?

lol 8 char

[candyflip]

Originally Posted by Probono

Paul, if the the program of shutting down the free pirate sites continues then the market will indeed regenerate. I suspect a good portion of the people using GFY will celebrate. Others here are the pirates and they will mourn.

After more than a dozen years in this industry I would like to see the revenue stream back to where innovation and experimentation can once again be funded by honest webmasters.

What free pirate sites are being shut down? All the big ones, tube and torrent are business as usual.

[CaptainHowdy]

I'm not reading all that...

[wolfshade]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

At last people are really taking piracy seriously and doing something about it. The fight has started on one level, it has to be taken on by many more and taken to more levels. The time of sitting back is over. If you want to survive in this business.

The long term aim of companies like Mansef is probably to eliminate the competition as much as possible. To create an industry dominated by 10 to 20 companies. By doing this they could also eliminate most affiliates and the need to give away loads of free content. They are not stupid and realise with few companies competing for traffic the need to give surfers everything for free is self defeating. The need for 1,000s of affiliates will also disappear.

So how can those still in the business fight against it?

Sponsors.

Members area have to be good enough to warrant a month or longer membership. Content of members areas has to improve in leaps and bounds. Members have to want to stay to see the next days additions. It will no longer work for sites to add poor porn quality content, members are not stupid and won't stay to see another scene that's the same as what's already on the site.

It's time for imagination, innovation and creativity to take over when creating porn. Also variation needs to be included in the mis. No matter how good it is, once the viewer has seen 30 scenes of girls being picked up on the roadside and fucked in the back of a van. Another one won't make the majority of members stay around. A diet of constant prime Angus Steak does boring after 30 days.

And the amount of models faking it has to be reduced. There were comments about models not being able to act. Many of them can't even fake a decent orgasm on file. They use the same old tired phrases over and over again. Depending on the girl they will either OOOH or AAAGH throughout the scene. Sometimes when no one is touching them. If a model can't deliver the goods, send her home. Because putting poor porn quality on a site isn't encouraging members to spend money.

You can fool some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time. But you can't fool all of the people all of the time. Especially if you're selling to a repeat buyer. He soon wises up.

Also IMO live shows of quality can be added. They can be chat like on a webcam, live scenes like we already shoot and the only thing holding it back is the imagination and creativity of the producer. It has to be good and the attitude of the more the better has to change. Often less is better.

All this will take money. Shooting content for cut price makes it tough to shoot anything worth while. From the early days sponsors were offering me $1500 for 5 set and video scenes. Fortunately I was able to tell them where to stick it, politely. But others who were not in my situation snapped it up and and churned out low quality content for those who thought it was right to sell crap.

Affiliates.

Sending traffic to anyone associated with major Tubes or piracy, either supporting, owning them or advertising on them is like sharpening the knife of the person about to assassinate you. Because when these companies have taken over the industry the last thing they will need to spend loads of money on is traffic. The surfer will have few options on who ends up with his money. Affiliates strength is in having 1,000 of sponsors competing for their traffic. If it becomes 20 companies, they can trade amongst themselves. Affiliates may disappear, surfers appetite for porn will not.

So don't send traffic to Brazzers, AFF or anyone else connected to piracy.

Support those who do fight against piracy. Support those delivering a good product to your traffic. Don't send traffic to people who will fuck you in the long run. They are just as bad as those who will shave.

This fight should of started 15 years ago. Ten years ago would of been great. Five would of been good. Today it has started. Who has the balls to take up arms?

Sorry for the long post but it has to be said.

What a load of Bullcrap.

First, if it makes money affiliates will send traffic period.
Second, You can't stop Piracy
Third, To punish the ones who recognize this is equally stupid and comparing this to sponsors who shave is flat out retarded.

My

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by Davy

cliff notes?

"Make good content, stop sending traffic to AFF and any Manwin site cos they are really bad."

That will obviously stop piracy.

Nice one Pauly! You've done it!

[Ethersync]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Also variation needs to be included in the mis. No matter how good it is, once the viewer has seen 30 scenes of girls being picked up on the roadside and fucked in the back of a van. Another one won't make the majority of members stay around. A diet of constant prime Angus Steak does boring after 30 days.

While I agree that variety is good, Bang Bus alone has surely made more money than you have made in your life. Anyways, carry on...

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Probono

Paul, if the the program of shutting down the free pirate sites continues then the market will indeed regenerate. I suspect a good portion of the people using GFY will celebrate. Others here are the pirates and they will mourn.

After more than a dozen years in this industry I would like to see the revenue stream back to where innovation and experimentation can once again be funded by honest webmasters.

Piracy will never be stopped completely, it might get slowed down, without a lot of changes in the law. And we can't sit back and wait for that.

Before that happens we have to make a product that's worth the money we ask for it. For far too long people have regarded content of the site as a low cost item. So we ended up with sites full of poor quality.

Waiting for pirates sites to fold isn't going to do anything.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Agent 488

lets go back to betamax and mags in plastic bags and maybe people will buy your content again.

Fucking moron.

My content has sold for 10 times what most other content providers hare have sold it for. All the guys you praise are selling content for $100 when we selling similar content for $1,000.

We never had to fall back on shooting custom scenes for others to own for $300.
We made far more than that selling via our stores.
Plus we made $1,000 selling to to magazines.
Plus we made made money selling to DVD companies.
PLUS WE STILL OWN THE COPYRIGHT.

And after two horrendous set backs that would put most others out of business we are still here.

So WTF are you talking about?

Oh I forgot bullshit is your language.

[quiet]

I'm riiich Biatch!!!!!

[Agent 488]

Originally Posted by Davy

cliff notes?

the nurses gave grandpa simpson his typewriter back.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by wolfshade

What a load of Bullcrap.

First, if it makes money affiliates will send traffic period.
Second, You can't stop Piracy
Third, To punish the ones who recognize this is equally stupid and comparing this to sponsors who shave is flat out retarded.

My

First. I agree that is right. So they really shouldn't bitch when those companies end up fucking them in the ass. Should they.

Second. We might not be able to stop it, but we can lessen the effect it has on us.

Third. Not sure what you meant by this. Be clearer please.

*****************

The problem with so many is they see no alternative. They have always thrown their arms up in disgust and then do nothing. They continue to send traffic to sites that fuck over the members, sites who straight out rob the customers to pay them, sites who sell dating without any or few girls available. Sites who own, advertise or back Tubes. Then wonder why their sales are falling.

I came up with some ideas. So far no one in this thread has come up with anything concrete. Come up with something better.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Ethersync

While I agree that variety is good, Bang Bus alone has surely made more money than you have made in your life. Anyways, carry on...

I used the Bangbus theme as an example. They like a lot of other successes started when it was a lot easier. Many copied their business model. And we ended up with 1,000s of themed sites.

While I admire what Bangbus and others did, it's obvious we need to change the model. Just saying "It worked for them." Does not mean it will work for all today.

Anyways carry on and give us some ideas to pull the situation back.

[quiet]

by that standard, it would have been MUCH easier 20 years ago lol.

[fred andersson]

It is good that you write your thoughts about this Paul.
It is very easy for other people to complain...but as you say..come up with something better.
People need to work together against piracy...otherwise it will kill the business.
I know that DDF wrote something similar before and he got shit as well from a lot of people.
Stan up for your thoughts..lots of people agree with you.

[Ethersync]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Anyways carry on and give us some ideas to pull the situation back.

Well to start, if I was in your position I would seriously consider cutting membership prices. Your content is pretty generic and you are competing with free.

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

I came up with some ideas.

And no one likes them, thinks they are clever, original or sensible.

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by fred andersson

Stan up for your thoughts..lots of people agree with you.

You agree that if you stop sending traffic to AFF that piracy will stop?

Lolsome.

[erooup]

I am starting to wonder if Paul Markham have lost his mind completely.

[Agent 488]

i pulled my links to aff, brazzers and fling. torrent sites still up. what the fuck?

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by Agent 488

i pulled my links to aff, brazzers and fling. torrent sites still up. what the fuck?

no wais!

[Agent 488]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

You can fool some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time. But you can't fool all of the people all of the time. Especially if you're selling to a repeat buyer. He soon wises up..

the reason why no one buys your shit in a nutshell lol.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by quiet

I'm riiich Biatch!!!!!

Yes you are. You had a talent for this business, started when it was a lot easier and worked like the devil to get it right.

If you started today where do you think you would be?


***********************

Here's another idea to hurt Tubes and pirating sites. One of their main advertisers are Dating Sites. These sites have very few girls and the chances of getting laid on one are virtually nil. They alos are just ripping off customers. Telling them there's a girl in the next town ready to fuck them and keeping these people spending by sending out false emails.

So educate the surfers that these sites are a scam. How they work and send them to free Dating sites that do have girls posting on them.

Or just keep taking customers money and losing your job in the long term.

And anyone who thinks clearing out piracy will solve the problem is a fool. Companies like Brazzers will fill their Tube sites with licensed full length scenes for free. Their long term strategy is to take the business away from everyone else. They are thinking long term and the rewards to be had. And if you think they're doing this to keep the rest of you in business and being paid for sending traffic they already have you're kidding yourself.

So taking down piracy isn't going to save many from the unemployment line.

[MaDalton]

there's one thing that would be very efficient: if the site owner would have to prove that he has the license to use the content instead of the content owner having to prove that he owns the content and the site owner has no license - see the whole DMCA process.

up to now everyone can use content, pretend it's user uploaded, and then the content owner has to spend time and effort to prove his rights. if a site owner would be bombarded with requests to prove his legal usage of content he would be much more careful what he would put up.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by quiet

by that standard, it would have been MUCH easier 20 years ago lol.

I started 30 years ago and it was a lot easier. Even 20 years ago it was easier. And a damn site more profitable for us content producers.

My ideas are about today and for others who have not made the money I made, or you, to get this business back on track. So far all the trolls have contributed nothing. Losers like Damo, have nothing to contribute.

Originally Posted by MaDalton

there's one thing that would be very efficient: if the site owner would have to prove that he has the license to use the content instead of the content owner having to prove that he owns the content and the site owner has no license - see the whole DMCA process.

up to now everyone can use content, pretend it's user uploaded, and then the content owner has to spend time and effort to prove his rights. if a site owner would be bombarded with requests to prove his legal usage of content he would be much more careful what he would put up.

It will stop a lot of the small Tubes. But it will not save the majority in this business. Mansef and a few others have long term plans.

Do you think they will just go back to 4 minute clips and lose all their traffic to others with the same short length?

No they will load Tubes with content they have the license for and keep their traffic and take others. It's long term thinking. Then they will not need many who now work in porn. Other content owners will continue to close and Mansef will buy up their libraries for cents on the dollar. Will they need affiliates, traffic people, designers, etc. when the customer has few options on who to spend his money with?

[USA]

Excellent thread Paul, I like your posts

[maxjohan]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

there's one thing that would be very efficient: if the site owner would have to prove that he has the license to use the content instead of the content owner having to prove that he owns the content and the site owner has no license - see the whole DMCA process.

up to now everyone can use content, pretend it's user uploaded, and then the content owner has to spend time and effort to prove his rights. if a site owner would be bombarded with requests to prove his legal usage of content he would be much more careful what he would put up.

Good idea. Me likes

[Joshua G]

mr markham,

although i think your intentions are benevolent, what you propose won't do jack shit to beat piracy.

A free wheeling internet like today has no mechanisms for preventing content sharing. Consumers don't give a crap about piracy, in fact it works for them because its free.

One solution is the internet goes communist. Meaning a shadowy consortium of government bureaucrats, ISP providers, & studio heads decide what flows through the internet & what does not.

It would take punitive copyright laws & a branch of law enforcement to enforce those laws. The laws would force computer & TV makers to remove copying mechanisms from their products. They would force ISPs to shut down sites that distribute copyrighted content. They would regulate what companies can be an ISPs on the web.

Basically it would be a disaster for free expression & convert the web into a communist regime run by a small group of illuminati.

Assuming a communist internet never happens, the correct answer is to find alternative income streams from mere content production. There will always be value for live, first run content. Hollywood has movie theatres, Music has concerts. Porn will find value in webcam.

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

It will stop a lot of the small Tubes. But it will not save the majority in this business. Mansef and a few others have long term plans.

Do you think they will just go back to 4 minute clips and lose all their traffic to others with the same short length?

No they will load Tubes with content they have the license for and keep their traffic and take others. It's long term thinking. Then they will not need many who now work in porn. Other content owners will continue to close and Mansef will buy up their libraries for cents on the dollar. Will they need affiliates, traffic people, designers, etc. when the customer has few options on who to spend his money with?

you are confusing something - what you describe here is called "business". if someone sells his content to them and they want to give it away for free it's their thing - as long it's covered in the license agreement. you may not like it, but unfortunately most people will not care about it.
just look back how many car manufacturers existed in 1920 or 1930 and how many there are now. i'm pretty much sure most of them were also pretty pissed when Ford sold the T-Model for a fraction what all other cars cost at that time. but still other companies survived cause they had something to offer what the T-Model did not have.

the world cannot rotate backwards

[Caligari]

one huge thing would be if google, bing etc dropped all links to illegal tubes and torrents which now reside in the top 10-20 of most searches for adult terms.

yes i know they won't, hell they dont give a flying fuck about the adult biz but you would think they would care about stopping piracy. dmca notices dont do shit because it hasn't put a dent in the listings.

doesnt anyone think its extremely fucked up when you search a term and its nothing but torrents and tubes for 2 pages? if stopping these bastards is not possible then thwarting their means of exposure should be considered in all areas.

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

So educate the surfers that these sites are a scam. How they work and send them to free Dating sites that do have girls posting on them.

How do you propose we:

a) embark on this education campaign
b) how do you work out which are the 'good' dating sites
c) what happens when AFF buy plenty of fish?

And I hope you checked with your lawyers before stating your opinion as FACTS about AFF having no real female profiles. Be awful if Fabian sued you.

[dirtybaker1331]

The industry would be thriving if it wasn't for the fact that any Joe Blow can sell porn on the internet. Weather its an 18 year old kid from the Phillipines or some American high school dropout. Most of these people have no marketing background of any kind.

I constantly get requests for longer clips. WHY! Longer clips do not convert traffic. Who decided that was the way to promote? We have done plenty of testing and we have learned that is not the case. Makes sense to me. Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free.

There are a lot of things we can do to improve this industry. One thing that I believe would help is educating affiliates how to properly promote that will be beneficial to both the sponsor and the affiliate.

[minicivan]

[wolfshade]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

First. I agree that is right. So they really shouldn't bitch when those companies end up fucking them in the ass. Should they.

There are plenty of traditional adult companies that do so as well and worse, your point?

Second. We might not be able to stop it, but we can lessen the effect it has on us.

I suspect the effort will make it worse, much worse.

Third. Not sure what you meant by this. Be clearer please.

Forget what you posted? Well, allow me to refresh your memory:

Support those who do fight against piracy. Support those delivering a good product to your traffic. Don't send traffic to people who will fuck you in the long run. They are just as bad as those who will shave.

Clear enough?

The problem with so many is they see no alternative. They have always thrown their arms up in disgust and then do nothing. They continue to send traffic to sites that fuck over the members, sites who straight out rob the customers to pay them, sites who sell dating without any or few girls available. Sites who own, advertise or back Tubes. Then wonder why their sales are falling.

I came up with some ideas. So far no one in this thread has come up with anything concrete. Come up with something better.

I don't like tubes myself. I think they are messy and wouldn't want to run one, but essentially I have nothing against them, many of them are even legal, so I'd say if they can be profitable, more power to them.

This being said I don't see why sponsors taking that traffic should be punished, and I really don't see the comparison to shaving you made.

[ottopottomouse]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

This fight should of started 15 years ago. Ten years ago would of been great. Five would of been good. Today it has started. Who has the balls to take up arms?

The fight just appears to be an alternative revenue stream - not a way of stopping piracy.

My view is that if there is viable income from it rather than just pissing money away on Ferraris for lawyers that it will just become a new business model - leak your shit then threaten whoever takes it hoping for enough % of people to cough up the penalty fee.

[Fbomb - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Reasons why the business is in the shitter. People too lazy to read for 5 minutes.

No, I just don't want to read your crap. Same shit different color.

[minicivan]

A war

A war without leadership

A war without organization

A war without a defined objective

A war without a strategy

A war without a cause

A war without vision

A war that cannot be won

A war that just does nothing but confirms to everyone, even customers that pornographers are assholes and nothing else.

Its a war where soldiers spread their weapons all over the battlefield on purpose, left loaded and unsecured and even encourage their spreading, collecting and taking and then act surprised when others pick them up and shoot and shoot at them or refuse to buy them later.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Ethersync

Well to start, if I was in your position I would seriously consider cutting membership prices. Your content is pretty generic and you are competing with free.

This isn't about my site or company. It's about the whole industry and the jobs of those who work in it.

I've been saying for a long time that the industry charges too much and why we do. The cost of traffic keeps membership prices where they are. Have companies like Mansef discovered it's more profitable to put up a Tube site, give away full length scenes and get a far lower conversion rate, but off a far higher traffic flow, than the traditional methods?

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by USA

Excellent thread Paul, I like your posts

Thank you. Maybe my ideas are not going to work. I'm just throwing some ideas out. Sad thing is how few have anything else to offer.

Do they have any ideas what will or are they looking forward to having another job soon. Because one thing they can't dispute is.

We are no where near the bottom of the slide yet. It will get worse unless something is done.

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

We are no where near the bottom of the slide yet. It will get worse unless something is done.

Epoch disagree with you entirely, but what do they know?

[Fbomb - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

We are no where near the bottom of the slide yet. It will get worse unless something is done.

More magic join buttons?

[Slutboat]

All you dinosaurs with your CRAP Members Sections are the REASON no one will sign up to anything - You buy a bunch of bullshit OLD recycled content then put up a bunch of STANDARD SHIT in a members section - then make a GREAT LOOKING TOUR to SUCKER a surfer into joining then RIP HIM OFF on X Sales - and all you Traffic guys who made a lot of easy money promoting these shitty sites are now a bunch of FUCKING CRYBABIES that nobody wants to sign up and get scammed anymore...boo hoo - and you Paul Markham - you are a smart guy and you seem really cool but SELLING NON EXCLUSIVE CONTENT FUCKED THIS BIZ UP FOR REAL SHOOTERS.

please all you shit slingers hurry up and fold

[Slutboat]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

We are no where near the bottom of the slide yet. It will get worse unless something is done.

There IS NO SLIDE - this is just a move to quality - this is natures way of correcting an imbalance.

all you junk peddlers with your 80's content re-sold to a thousand sites... and jokes for members sections. An your gimmicky tricks and traffic scams are about to GO EXTINCT... Just sell the house and move into an RV...the jig is up it's alllll over.

Surfers aren't falling for your schemes anymore, just throw in the towel and let us quality premium exclusive guys take it from here.