Looks like in the immigration lawsuits AZ has a favorable judge

[DateDoc]

PHOENIX ? The judge who will decide whether Arizona's new immigration law is constitutional hasn't indicated whether she'll put the statute on hold before it takes effect next week and had some pointed questions Thursday for challengers at two court hearings.

U.S. District Judge Susan Bolton also went beyond dry legal analysis to point out some of the everyday realities of illegal immigration and how that applies to the new law.

Without prodding from attorneys, the judge noted that the federal government erected signs in a wilderness area south of Phoenix that warn visitors about immigrant and drug smugglers passing through public lands. She said the stash houses where smugglers hide immigrants from Mexico before bringing them into the country's interior have become a fixture on the news in Arizona.

"You can barely go a day without a location being found in Phoenix where there are numerous people being harbored," said Bolton, who didn't issue a ruling after the two hearings.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_immigr...izona_lawsuits

[Amputate Your Head]

Obviously the law must be struck down. We can't have 50 different state immigration laws. What if Colorado says, "we welcome immigrants with open arms".... that would directly conflict with AZ's law as well as federal law.

Shooting this law down is a no-brainer.

[Rochard]

Of course this law is constitutional. It's a simple law that says you need to check ID for anyone a police officer comes into contact with. If they cannot produce a valid US ID, there's something wrong.

If they happen to be French tourists on vacation, all they need to do is produce a valid passport and then check the database to see when they entered the country to make sure they are here legally. Very fucking simple.

Just like when they check my car registration when they pull me over.

[Amputate Your Head]

Originally Posted by Rochard

Of course this law is constitutional. It's a simple law that says you need to check ID for anyone a police officer comes into contact with. If they cannot produce a valid US ID, there's something wrong.

If they happen to be French tourists on vacation, all they need to do is produce a valid passport and then check the database to see when they entered the country to make sure they are here legally. Very fucking simple.

Just like when they check my car registration when they pull me over.

So if you happen to be Hispanic and happen to be out and about without your ID, you run the risk of being arrested and deported. Nice.

50 unique State immigration laws. That won't be confusing or anything.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

So if you happen to be Hispanic and happen to be out and about without your ID, you run the risk of being arrested and deported. Nice.

50 unique State immigration laws. That won't be confusing or anything.

The AZ Law is pretty much the same as the Federal Law, it just gives the State the power to enforce the law. The State has the right to make this law, much like Cali has the right to make it's own pot laws and choose to enforce them or not.

The Hispanic that is legal would have a DL, they would be a in registered car, have insurance and a SSN/Tax ID of some kind, an address, work location... an actual history.

[DateDoc]

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

So if you happen to be Hispanic and happen to be out and about without your ID, you run the risk of being arrested and deported. Nice.

50 unique State immigration laws. That won't be confusing or anything.

You will not get deported unless you are here illegally. Also, the Supreme Court has upheld similar cases before, like Hiibel vs. Nevada:

During a valid investigative stop (established under Terry v. Ohio), a police officer can require persons to identify themselves if they have ?reasonable suspicion? that this information is pertinent to an investigation they are conducting in the course of enforcing a clear and specific state law. Individuals who refuse to respond may be detained and arrested by the enforcement officers.

[Amputate Your Head]

Originally Posted by DateDoc

You will not get deported unless you are here illegally. Also, the Supreme Court has upheld similar cases before, like Hiibel vs. Nevada:

During a valid investigative stop (established under Terry v. Ohio), a police officer can require persons to identify themselves if they have ?reasonable suspicion? that this information is pertinent to an investigation they are conducting in the course of enforcing a clear and specific state law. Individuals who refuse to respond may be detained and arrested by the enforcement officers.

Again, so if you happen to be Hispanic and out & about without your ID, you run the risk of being arrested & jailed until you can prove you are a citizen. There's no way this will stand as a valid law.

[brassmonkey]

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

So if you happen to be Hispanic and happen to be out and about without your ID, you run the risk of being arrested and deported. Nice.

50 unique State immigration laws. That won't be confusing or anything.

bullshit there are processes you know that, were you really in the military? identification is first. they will finger print you. your in a place where the cup has run over with illegals. get to work you have anchor babies to support

[Amputate Your Head]

Originally Posted by brassmonkey

bullshit there are processes you know that, were you really in the military? identification is first. they will finger print you. your in a place where the cup has run over with illegals. get to work you have anchor babies to support

And again.... so if you happen to be Hispanic and out & about without your ID, you run the risk of being arrested and jailed until you can PROVE you are a US citizen. What if they start doing the same thing for black people & white people? Jail you until you can prove your citizenship. That be cool with you?

[Amputate Your Head]

The biggest two problems with the AZ law are:

1. They are usurping federal authority. Uncool in the eyes of the feds.
2. They are presuming all Hispanics to be guilty until proven innocent.

And we don't work that way here in the good ol' US.

[Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

Obviously the law must be struck down. We can't have 50 different state immigration laws. What if Colorado says, "we welcome immigrants with open arms".... that would directly conflict with AZ's law as well as federal law.

Shooting this law down is a no-brainer.

You're a fucking moron.

LOL

[Sly]

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

The biggest two problems with the AZ law are:

1. They are usurping federal authority. Uncool in the eyes of the feds.
2. They are presuming all Hispanics to be guilty until proven innocent.

And we don't work that way here in the good ol' US.

You are wrong on both accounts.

[Amputate Your Head]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

You're a fucking moron.

LOL

Wow, what insight you have. Must be easy to toss up insults without any more thought than a mushroom.

I can do it too, see.... you're a fucking moron. LOL

[Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

And again.... so if you happen to be Hispanic and out & about without your ID, you run the risk of being arrested and jailed until you can PROVE you are a US citizen. What if they start doing the same thing for black people & white people? Jail you until you can prove your citizenship. That be cool with you?

That's totally cool with me. I can prove my citizenship in about 3 seconds.

[Amputate Your Head]

Originally Posted by Sly

You are wrong on both accounts.

Oh really?

Immigration isn't a federal authority?

Hispanics in AZ won't be arrested if they don't have ID and can't prove on the spot that they are citizens?


'Splain me how I'm "wrong on both counts" please.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

The biggest two problems with the AZ law are:

1. They are usurping federal authority. Uncool in the eyes of the feds.
2. They are presuming all Hispanics to be guilty until proven innocent.

And we don't work that way here in the good ol' US.

1) Uncool as Cali's pot laws I guess.

2) Why does it have to be Hispanics? Anyone with an accent or that couldn't speak English, that happens to be doing something that warrants the police ask for information, and they can't or wont communicate the situation, would of course be subject to this.

[DateDoc]

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

Again, so if you happen to be Hispanic and out & about without your ID, you run the risk of being arrested & jailed until you can prove you are a citizen. There's no way this will stand as a valid law.

It already has stood as a valid law for anyone in the US since 2004. Hiibel vs. Nevada, upheld by the US Supreme Court.

[Amputate Your Head]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

1) Uncool as Cali's pot laws I guess.

2) Why does it have to be Hispanics? Anyone with an accent or that couldn't speak English, that happens to be doing something that warrants the police ask for information, and they can't or wont communicate the situation, would of course be subject to this.

You and I both know that in practice on the street, the AZ police will be targeting Hispanics, not white Frenchmen. Don't be ridiculous.

[TheDoc]

Right now in AZ, if you're Hispanic, can't speak English or refuse to communicate, and the police, sheriff or feds pull you over or have reason to ask for your id, and you can't provide it. The exact same thing happens now as will happen with the new law, however the end process will now be different for the illegal immigrant criminal.

[brassmonkey]

well thursday is coming the judge said parts of the law will make it some parts are in question but illegals will be in jail friday. no beber cerveza

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

You and I both know that in practice on the street, the AZ police will be targeting Hispanics, not white Frenchmen. Don't be ridiculous.

On the street they won't be asking Hispanics for ID's... When the police have a proper reason to ask for the ID, I think the chances are equal that a Hispanic or a Frenchman will be asked for ID and treated equally if they don't have it.

The law does have protection written into it, the departments here are training officers, and making sure they don't target Hispanics, because the department and officer can be sued, and groups are waiting for the slip up.

[DateDoc]

On a side note: Washoe County Jail (Reno, NV) now fingerprints everyone booked in to the jail and their prints are scanned against the ICE database. ICE even has an office at the jail.

RENO, Nev.(AP) -- The Washoe County jail in Reno has become the first in Nevada to participate in a federal program allowing jailers to use fingerprints to establish the immigration status and criminal history of inmates.

U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement officials say the jail began using the agency's "Secure Communities" program this week.

Las Vegas is expected to follow in 2013.

ICE spokeswoman Lori Haley says it differs from an existing program using trained officers to interview inmates, enforce immigration law and authorize deportation proceedings.

The program calls for fingerprints of booked inmates to be automatically checked against FBI criminal history records and Department of Homeland Security immigration files.

[Socks]

They should just make everyone swipe their ID cards at home, before the "system" allows your front door to be unlocked.

Simple convenience, only criminals should be concerned.

[brassmonkey]

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

You and I both know that in practice on the street, the AZ police will be targeting Hispanics, not white Frenchmen. Don't be ridiculous.

man this is a stupid argument. we border south america not france. thats bullshit. if we bordered vietnam guess what we would have vietnamese here.

[jimmy-3-way]

Originally Posted by Rochard

Just like when they check my car registration when they pull me over.

Who issues your license plate, Einstein?

Who issues your passport?

You should get your money back from whatever law school you went to.

[brassmonkey]

Originally Posted by Socks

They should just make everyone swipe their ID cards at home, before the "system" allows your front door to be unlocked.

Simple convenience, only criminals should be concerned.

yeah thats a good idea for canada

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by Socks

They should just make everyone swipe their ID cards at home, before the "system" allows your front door to be unlocked.

Simple convenience, only criminals should be concerned.

Embedded chips that broadcast info about us, we wouldn't want to misplace our cards and be locked in/out of the house. Then no more keys for the car or house, could link up our bank accounts, id, credit report, you wouldn't have to keep anything on you. Bars, clubs, casinos could always be sure people are over age or maybe make enough money to enter.

Life could always get better

[Amputate Your Head]

The first Hispanic US citizen that gets "accidentally" deported or tased 12 times on the street for not having his ID with him, is going to be big front page headline news on every major mainstream news channel and website in the world.

The inevitable lawsuit that follows will be glorious.

[brassmonkey]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Embedded chips that broadcast info about us, we wouldn't want to misplace our cards and be locked in/out of the house. Then no more keys for the car or house, could link up our bank accounts, id, credit report, you wouldn't have to keep anything on you. Bars, clubs, casinos could always be sure people are over age or maybe make enough money to enter.

Life could always get better

pump the brakes there doc.

[Amputate Your Head]

Originally Posted by brassmonkey

man this is a stupid argument. we border south america not france. thats bullshit. if we bordered vietnam guess what we would have vietnamese here.

My point exactly. They will be targeting Hispanics. That's not legal here.

[Sly]

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

Oh really?

Immigration isn't a federal authority?

Hispanics in AZ won't be arrested if they don't have ID and can't prove on the spot that they are citizens?


'Splain me how I'm "wrong on both counts" please.

1) They are in court right now determining what is federal and what is not federal.

2) You claimed they would be stopping every single Hispanic person they see. Arizona is over 30% Hispanic, and those are the legals. No, I do not believe they will be stopping 3 out of 10 people for their paperwork.

You keep forgetting that these same laws are in place elsewhere. You completely ignore that fact, again and again.

I think you are just trolling these days for something to do. Are you really that bored?

[Amputate Your Head]

Originally Posted by Sly

Are you really that bored?

Yes.

[brassmonkey]

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

The first Hispanic US citizen that gets "accidentally" deported or tased 12 times on the street for not having his ID with him, is going to be big front page headline news on every major mainstream news channel and website in the world.

The inevitable lawsuit that follows will be glorious.

yeah if it happens it will be cheaper. but its funny how there are so many people that want to avoid the problem. hospitals filled with illegals, schools having to teach illegal children english cause their parents taught them spanish, illegalls collecting welfare while their husband works a job "under the table" etc etc etc.....

[Amputate Your Head]

Originally Posted by Sly

2) You claimed they would be stopping every single Hispanic person they see.

I never claimed any such thing Sly.

[Amputate Your Head]

Originally Posted by brassmonkey

yeah if it happens it will be cheaper. but its funny how there are so many people that want to avoid the problem. hospitals filled with illegals, schools having to teach illegal children english cause their parents taught them spanish, illegalls collecting welfare while their husband works a job "under the table" etc etc etc.....

And how again is this different from the official "citizens" we have that do the same damn things?

[jimmy-3-way]

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

My point exactly. They will be targeting Hispanics. That's not legal here.

Wrong, it's completely legal to use racial profiling.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by brassmonkey

pump the brakes there doc.

Utopia will have to wait

[brassmonkey]

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

My point exactly. They will be targeting Hispanics. That's not legal here.

because their here illegally! look it has to be addressed if they dont like it that fine as well both side know what the deal is.

[brassmonkey]

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

And how again is this different from the official "citizens" we have that do the same damn things?

well legal citizens break the law here their arrested. illegals are breaking the law being here i think you just want to argue i have to work. have a good argument man.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by Rochard

Of course this law is constitutional. It's a simple law that says you need to check ID for anyone a police officer comes into contact with. If they cannot produce a valid US ID, there's something wrong.

If they happen to be French tourists on vacation, all they need to do is produce a valid passport and then check the database to see when they entered the country to make sure they are here legally. Very fucking simple.

Just like when they check my car registration when they pull me over.

problem is, french tourists wouldn't be asked for their passport.. french id and 'we're tourists' would be enough

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by hawkeye

you're a fucking moron.

Lol

x2......

[brassmonkey]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

problem is, french tourists wouldn't be asked for their passport.. french id and 'we're tourists' would be enough

ok one more reply name a 3rd world country that has a bunch of tourist coming to the united states. there are none. adding the french to this subject is apples and oranges.

[Amputate Your Head]

Originally Posted by brassmonkey

well legal citizens break the law here their arrested. illegals are breaking the law being here i think you just want to argue i have to work. have a good argument man.

I didn't say anything about breaking laws or becoming criminals or being arrested. You were talking about sucking the system teat, welfare, hospitals, etc.... and I asked you, how is that any different from our legal citizens that do the same things? (I don't know how you get welfare if you're an illegal alien, but okay). What's the difference? One is legally here, the other is not. They both drain the system. Sounds to me like the system is what needs fixing, not some weak attempt at trying to block certain people from it.

[Smokieflame]

I live in AZ and this law is not as evil as people seem to think. First off I had to live next door to illegal immigrants who non stop started problems. Every time we called the cops they wouldn't do anything b/c there hands were tied by not being legally able to ask for documents which is bullshit. If you are a US citizen and you are walking down the street without ID you can be arrested, finger printed, and given a $400 ticket. I know from experience. In all other countries if you are visiting on a passport and you do not have your passport when a cop talks to you, you can be charged with a crime and immediately deported out of the country, this goes for Americans just as much as Mexicans. So yes our cops should have the right to ask someone who does not speak English at all for documents. It is in FACT a requirement to speak English at a 3rd grade level to become a citizen, and if you are working on your citizenship the proper way you should have documents.

Maricopa County Sheriffs office has also stated they will be going one step farther, if someone claims to be legal, or pending legal they will not take them directly to jail, they will take them to there home for them to provide proof of legal status.

I personally hope they kick every illegal out of our country. Its a blatant disrespect to all the immigrants that have worked there asses off to become a citizen the right way. Just because Mexico sucks does not mean we should give up our jobs, our resources and our neighborhoods to these people. Illegals are VERY rude people, even the workers. They play there carnival music VERY loud at all hours, they party heavily, 1 in 3 illegal immigrants children join gangs such as MS-13, which is the most violent gang in America and is 80% illegals or children of illegals. It is so bad, that MS-13 is in Elementary schools in wealthier areas!!!

[Amputate Your Head]

Originally Posted by Smokieflame

I live in AZ and this law is not as evil as people seem to think. First off I had to live next door to illegal immigrants who non stop started problems. Every time we called the cops they wouldn't do anything b/c there hands were tied by not being legally able to ask for documents which is bullshit.

So, what if next week the cops come and haul away your neighbors that you clearly despise, and 2 days later a new group moves in there that are exactly the same in every way except, they're legal. Then what?

You make it sound like illegals are the only bad neighbors out there. I can show you plenty of douchebag white people that make horrible neighbors.

[Vendzilla]

they have a precedent, Prince William county, Virginia, has had the law on the books since 2007

And it's working

[Amputate Your Head]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

they have a precedent, Prince William county, Virginia, has had the law on the books since 2007

And it's working

Well there ya go. It took a few hours today, but I learned something new. I wasn't aware Virginia was a hotbed of illegal immigrant activity.

[Smokieflame]

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

So, what if next week the cops come and haul away your neighbors that you clearly despise, and 2 days later a new group moves in there that are exactly the same in every way except, they're legal. Then what?

You make it sound like illegals are the only bad neighbors out there. I can show you plenty of douchebag white people that make horrible neighbors.

Actually I said "I had" that is a past tense reference... And no illegals arent the only bad neighbors, I have a white natural citizen who i live near that the WHOLE neighborhood hates and my husband ended up getting into a fight with. Im just bringing up an example. Funny thing was, after we moved the house they lived in was raided, it was a drop house. Had they asked for documents the first time we had to call the cops they would have nipped that in the bud several months before hand.

If you support idiot ass illegal Mexicans so much how about you move to Mexico and stop trolling the boards with stupid statements.

[Amputate Your Head]

Originally Posted by Smokieflame

Actually I said "I had" that is a past tense reference... And no illegals arent the only bad neighbors, I have a white natural citizen who i live near that the WHOLE neighborhood hates and my husband ended up getting into a fight with. Im just bringing up an example. Funny thing was, after we moved the house they lived in was raided, it was a drop house. Had they asked for documents the first time we had to call the cops they would have nipped that in the bud several months before hand.

If you support idiot ass illegal Mexicans so much how about you move to Mexico and stop trolling the boards with stupid statements.

I didn't say I supported illegal immigration. I just find it incredibly humorous that people attach all this stuff to illegals, and have nothing to say about the rest of the people that do the exact same things.

[jimmy-3-way]

Originally Posted by Smokieflame

Illegals are VERY rude people, even the workers. They play there carnival music VERY loud at all hours, they party heavily.

What's the secret to telling regular Mexicans from illegals?