Ah, I remember the day when everyone was on Daizzzy's ass about SOBV, card banging etc.

[Pics Traffic]

How everyone called him an idiot, bitched about false accusation. I wonder if morons have anything to say now.
Frisky, how's cock tasting banquet going?

[CaptainHowdy]

[tonyparra]

gfy has failed me again

[Jack Sparrow]

I dont even care what he says, when someone is wrong 90% of the time.

You must be forgetting about the threads where he was acused of spreading sponsors members area passwords to surfers? Or how he was acused by (how many companies i dont even know) serious program owners of having them on his blacklist because they didnt want to pay for adspace on his site.

Dude, if anyone thinks his site is unbiased to the max, go ahead and use his site. Its like a hidden internet marketing site trying to sell "the best sites"..

[pornstar2fag]

yup. anyone doing business at anything over 30 PPS to the affil on a sale is fucking the customer. no ifs ands or buts about it. you can't even argue it. if you do you are showing your ignorance on the margins.

[Pics Traffic]

Originally Posted by Jack Sparrow

I dont even care what he says, when someone is wrong 90% of the time.

what was he wrong about 90% of the time.?

[Jack Sparrow]

Originally Posted by Slow Roosevelt

what was he wrong about 90% of the time.?

Nice try, you lonely without me on the boards?

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by pornstar2fag

yup. anyone doing business at anything over 30 PPS to the affil on a sale is fucking the customer. no ifs ands or buts about it. you can't even argue it. if you do you are showing your ignorance on the margins.

Hahaha, really?

Let's see, affiliates only (no type-ins, in-house, exits, upsells, ex-member mails, return joins, etc) 100 affiliate trials, $2.99 trial that rebills at 29.95 monthly, and we'll limit it to 3 months. 50% trials convert with an upgrade script and well say 55% each month being that we're only looking at 3 months.

100 trials at $2.99 = $299
50 rebill at $29.95 = $1497

Trial Total: $1796

2nd month, 55% retain for 27.5 members = $823
3rd month, 55% retain for 15 members = $449

Rebill Total: $1272

Total: $3068

Affiliate Payout: $3000

Profit: $68

Again, that's taking in zero other factors and only 3 months.

Anyway, once that affiliate is gone it's all profits for the pps program. So 2% of the sales (2 people above) will retain for 9+ months, that's another $539.10 profit on two members. If you take the rebills left and just run them out at 50%, that's another $391 profit.

Basically, the above program could pay $40pps and still make profit and most 40pps programs charge more than $29.95 a month and they ALL make money with more than just the membership.

[Pics Traffic]

Originally Posted by Jack Sparrow

Nice try, you lonely without me on the boards?

I thought so, punk ass.
as usual, bs all the way.

[Shoplifter]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Hahaha, really?

Let's see, affiliates only (no type-ins, in-house, exits, upsells, ex-member mails, return joins, etc) 100 affiliate trials, $2.99 trial that rebills at 29.95 monthly, and we'll limit it to 3 months. 50% trials convert with an upgrade script and well say 55% each month being that we're only looking at 3 months.

100 trials at $2.99 = $299
50 rebill at $29.95 = $1497

Trial Total: $1796

2nd month, 55% retain for 27.5 members = $823
3rd month, 55% retain for 15 members = $449

Rebill Total: $1272

Total: $3068

Affiliate Payout: $3000

Profit: $68

Again, that's taking in zero other factors and only 3 months.

Anyway, once that affiliate is gone it's all profits for the pps program. So 2% of the sales (2 people above) will retain for 9+ months, that's another $539.10 profit on two members. If you take the rebills left and just run them out at 50%, that's another $391 profit.

Basically, the above program could pay $40pps and still make profit and most 40pps programs charge more than $29.95 a month and they ALL make money with more than just the membership.

3 month rebills are getting to be a rare thing indeed though.

What you are suggesting is possible, but I wouldn't plan my business on it.

[iSpyCams]

Originally Posted by Shoplifter

3 month rebills are getting to be a rare thing indeed though.

What you are suggesting is possible, but I wouldn't plan my business on it.

50% conversion on trials is also rare. 40% is considered good. 38% is the best I've ever done. Remember many debit cards and all prepaid cards are impossible to re-bill.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by Shoplifter

3 month rebills are getting to be a rare thing indeed though.

What you are suggesting is possible, but I wouldn't plan my business on it.

You could easily build a business around this.

Almost all half decent sites rebill better than 50% rate month to month, at 50% or lower the site isn't growing, it's not able to grow. Some months may dip below 50%, but normally the longer the time the higher the % is. As well, with upgrades most sites convert trials better than 50%.

Then you add in the compound of time, first cycles of rebills in blocks of months then years, which compound the net profits. This is when PPS programs start earning a higher profit percentage than a revshare program ever could reach, it's simply not possible. The Revshare program has to pay on every rebill, even if the affiliate never promotes them again. The PPS program only pays once.

Let's take a look at a $29.95 sale, 50% split = $14.98. After 3 months the revshare program earned $44.94, with the PPS example after 3 months the program earned $68. For every rebill the PPS program gets, the revshare program needs two more to keep up.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by pompousjohn

50% conversion on trials is also rare. 40% is considered good. 38% is the best I've ever done. Remember many debit cards and all prepaid cards are impossible to re-bill.

50-65% is common... You can get 40% just adding upgrade links without limiting any content, 15-30% is natural with no scripts.

Debit cards work perfectly fine.. it's the banks that block the high risk transaction. PPS programs pushing higher PPS know this and have ways around it based on the region the person is visiting from. We've used prepays for testing and they rebill as well.

[Pics Traffic]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Hahaha, really?

Let's see, affiliates only (no type-ins, in-house, exits, upsells, ex-member mails, return joins, etc) 100 affiliate trials, $2.99 trial that rebills at 29.95 monthly, and we'll limit it to 3 months. 50% trials convert with an upgrade script and well say 55% each month being that we're only looking at 3 months.

100 trials at $2.99 = $299
50 rebill at $29.95 = $1497

Trial Total: $1796

2nd month, 55% retain for 27.5 members = $823
3rd month, 55% retain for 15 members = $449

Rebill Total: $1272

Total: $3068

Affiliate Payout: $3000

Profit: $68

Again, that's taking in zero other factors and only 3 months.

Anyway, once that affiliate is gone it's all profits for the pps program. So 2% of the sales (2 people above) will retain for 9+ months, that's another $539.10 profit on two members. If you take the rebills left and just run them out at 50%, that's another $391 profit.

Basically, the above program could pay $40pps and still make profit and most 40pps programs charge more than $29.95 a month and they ALL make money with more than just the membership.

As usual -Clueless.

No CB or CB or Billing fees factored in. Way to build the theory Simpleton.

[FrozenJag]

Nice seeing someone that actually knows what their talking about shut up all the idiots and bandwagon jumpers on this whole pps is death bs. Only programs going under are the guys that were relying only on crosses and not the pleasing the customer.

Thx Doc

[FrozenJag]

Originally Posted by FrozenJag

Nice seeing someone that actually knows what their talking about shut up all the idiots and bandwagon jumpers on this whole pps is death bs. Only programs going under are the guys that were relying only on crosses and not the pleasing the customer.

Thx Doc

There is a reason programs like ND ONLY do pps so they make more money longterm.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by Slow Roosevelt

As usual -Clueless.

No CB or CB or Billing fees factored in. Way to build the theory Simpleton.

You fit your name well... you are a bit slow.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by FrozenJag

Nice seeing someone that actually knows what their talking about shut up all the idiots and bandwagon jumpers on this whole pps is death bs. Only programs going under are the guys that were relying only on crosses and not the pleasing the customer.

Thx Doc

Np at all....

The only reason PPS programs stand out is because they're the big ones. Far more revshare programs have closed up shop over the years, just 99% of the people here don't promote them.

[gleem]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

50-65% is common... You can get 40% just adding upgrade links without limiting any content, 15-30% is natural with no scripts. l.

heh, you are lucky if you get 65% on just the success rate of willing to be rebilled customers & customers manually clicking on an "upgrade now" link due to over the limit declines. Don't tell me I'm wrong, cause I know from several other reputable owners that run legit deals with real members area this is the case now.

Limited Trial members areas with instant upgrade links that converted at 60% 80%+ 2 years ago are looking at 35% to 55% now. These are ones that I have seen the stats on and have helped with, so I'm not pulling shit out of my ass.

Doc, I think you are working off either old ass numbers, or fetish/solo sites that tend to do less volume but retain longer.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by gleem

heh, you are lucky if you get 65% on just the success rate of willing to be rebilled customers & customers manually clicking on an "upgrade now" link due to over the limit declines. Don't tell me I'm wrong, cause I know from several other reputable owners that run legit deals with real members area this is the case now.

Limited Trial members areas with instant upgrade links that converted at 60% 80%+ 2 years ago are looking at 35% to 55% now. These are ones that I have seen the stats on and have helped with, so I'm not pulling shit out of my ass.

Doc, I think you are working off either old ass numbers, or fetish/solo sites that tend to do less volume but retain longer.

Over the limit declines have gone up, but it isn't like they're 20% or something. If you have a merchant account, we can recapture some of those as well.

DukeDollars and Topbucks both do the numbers I stated. Not every site, but the sites that matter do.

Trial upgrades is a art... with several special tricks you can do to increase upgrades, depending on the processor. I was the first paysite to setup a trial members area and run the upgrade plus this way. I've setup/helped countless, literally hundreds of paysites on trial upgrades. I still have to warn people about being too aggressive (I don't run them this hard, but 40% is nothing for me to reach), it is possible to break 65% but not without complaints. And Today, literally today... I'm setting up 2 programs with trial upgrades.

If you need help... drop me an email, my info is below.

[gleem]

interesting Doc, just looked at my numbers, other than general decline:

Declined: Over Limit 9.33%
Declined: Failed AVS 5.26%
Risk Decline - Scrub 5.02%

[Jack Sparrow]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

You fit your name well... you are a bit slow.

..and retarded

[Pics Traffic]

Originally Posted by Jack Sparrow

..and retarded

comes out of the mouth of an inbred.

[Jack Sparrow]

And you still wonder why guys like you and daizzy are treated like morons around here lol.

[Pics Traffic]

Originally Posted by Jack Sparrow

And you still wonder why guys like you and daizzy are treated like morons around here lol.

Are you taking comedian classes or something?
Dumb ass clowns like you and barefootsie make Pussyserver look like Albert Einstein here. Go eat a dick, clown.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by gleem

interesting Doc, just looked at my numbers, other than general decline:

Declined: Over Limit 9.33%
Declined: Failed AVS 5.26%
Risk Decline - Scrub 5.02%

Are those your overall rates or just on upgrades?

On these declines, are you reducing the rate and attempting to bill them a few more times over the next week or so?

[gleem]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Are those your overall rates or just on upgrades?

On these declines, are you reducing the rate and attempting to bill them a few more times over the next week or so?

Actually those are the decline rates for all transactions, of course they are going to be tried to billed more times, I think I'm set at 4 attempts on this gateway the stats for recoveries aren't there cause I just started using them aug 1st interested to see the stats of reducing rates on re-attempts which I have been doing all year on my main gateway vs re-attempts without reducing rates.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by gleem

Actually those are the decline rates for all transactions, of course they are going to be tried to billed more times, I think I'm set at 4 attempts on this gateway the stats for recoveries aren't there cause I just started using them aug 1st interested to see the stats of reducing rates on re-attempts which I have been doing all year on my main gateway vs re-attempts without reducing rates.

Yeah, it is a hard to see which ones take it or not, but I do know (at least with the reduced one) that it does work. A few recovered is better than none.

In your trial members area, do you offer a re-signup link? Lots of trials instant cancel before they log in, once they do this they can't upgrade unless you either turn the membership back on or give them a new signup form without trials. This will capture 5-10% (some days a lot more) of those people that auto cancel, if you can turn the account back on it adds a few more points.

Really a lot that can be done to reduce the decline rate or recapture the people in some way.

[TurboAngel]

He said the same thing about Rehab

[gleem]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Yeah, it is a hard to see which ones take it or not, but I do know (at least with the reduced one) that it does work. A few recovered is better than none.

Not always because sometimes you just end up with thousands of dollars extra in billing fees, 30 cents to the gateway, whatever else 25 cents to the bank for each retry, so what you recover can end up being less than what you spent to get it especially using degrading amounts over time.
[/QUOTE]

In your trial members area, do you offer a re-signup link? Lots of trials instant cancel before they log in, once they do this they can't upgrade unless you either turn the membership back on or give them a new signup form without trials. This will capture 5-10% (some days a lot more) of those people that auto cancel, if you can turn the account back on it adds a few more points.

actually been working on a solution for that, a bit tricky relying on NATS to turn memberships "back on" across a cascade of different billers. My workaround was going to be to set a buffer window up to when they can actually cancel, so if they cancel within 2 hours of joining, it doesn't go into effect and get submitted until an hour before the rebill is due.

[Jack Sparrow]

Originally Posted by Slow Roosevelt

Are you taking comedian classes or something?
Dumb ass clowns like you and barefootsie make Pussyserver look like Albert Einstein here. Go eat a dick, clown.

at least "we" dumbass clowns are making money and taking a piss with "you" losers who are still trying to scrape some beer money trolling the boards

[Pics Traffic]

Originally Posted by Jack Sparrow

at least "we" dumbass clowns are making money and taking a piss with "you" losers who are still trying to scrape some beer money trolling the boards

I see you learned how to spell word "loser " after all. Kinda lame to misspell the name you've been called so many times. And while you're taking a piss with you buddy and try to convince somebody you are making any money selling shitty scripts or lame reviews of black hat scripts, most of us piss ON you and have no reason to brag about money and pretend being something in this biz. Its kinda hard not to laugh at little needle dicks that post under different names as employees or employers, book non-existing cruises or first class tix that you never have and never will be able to afford. keep on trolling asscown. You're entertaining.

[V_RocKs]

The writing was on the wall I guess.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Hahaha, really?

Let's see, affiliates only (no type-ins, in-house, exits, upsells, ex-member mails, return joins, etc) 100 affiliate trials, $2.99 trial that rebills at 29.95 monthly, and we'll limit it to 3 months. 50% trials convert with an upgrade script and well say 55% each month being that we're only looking at 3 months.

100 trials at $2.99 = $299
50 rebill at $29.95 = $1497

Trial Total: $1796

2nd month, 55% retain for 27.5 members = $823
3rd month, 55% retain for 15 members = $449

Rebill Total: $1272

Total: $3068

Affiliate Payout: $3000

Profit: $68

Again, that's taking in zero other factors and only 3 months.

Anyway, once that affiliate is gone it's all profits for the pps program. So 2% of the sales (2 people above) will retain for 9+ months, that's another $539.10 profit on two members. If you take the rebills left and just run them out at 50%, that's another $391 profit.

Basically, the above program could pay $40pps and still make profit and most 40pps programs charge more than $29.95 a month and they ALL make money with more than just the membership.

This reply more than anything shows how little common sense there is in the industry. Maybe short term greed hides the obvious truth from peoples eyes.

Think about it for 5 minutes while I go get breakfast and reply to other threads.

[Paul Markham]

No one get it?

What Thedoc and a few others are saying is that a member signed up under rev share is changing his retention habits. The member has no idea it's a rev share or PPS affiliate sign up, he just changes his habits.

*************************

The shocking thing about this thread is it illustrates the short term greed of many. SOBV is just one site of 100s if not 1,000s ripping off surfers in some way, to pay out high amounts for traffic. Rather than investigate how the money was made some just kept sending traffic and kept pissing off the buyers. Leading partly to the over all decline in joins. Now these guys are screaming some of these sites are not paying them.

Karma is a bitch.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

This reply more than anything shows how little common sense there is in the industry. Maybe short term greed hides the obvious truth from peoples eyes.

Think about it for 5 minutes while I go get breakfast and reply to other threads.

If you want to push the limits, that's 'YOUR' companies doing... when I set these goodies, no limits are pushed. I've actually lowered peoples CB/Refund ratios, AFTER pulling in tools that improve your site.

When you do it correctly, surfers love you for it... what I create is perfection don't confuse that with others wanting to make a quick buck.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

No one get it?

What Thedoc and a few others are saying is that a member signed up under rev share is changing his retention habits. The member has no idea it's a rev share or PPS affiliate sign up, he just changes his habits.

*************************

The shocking thing about this thread is it illustrates the short term greed of many. SOBV is just one site of 100s if not 1,000s ripping off surfers in some way, to pay out high amounts for traffic. Rather than investigate how the money was made some just kept sending traffic and kept pissing off the buyers. Leading partly to the over all decline in joins. Now these guys are screaming some of these sites are not paying them.

Karma is a bitch.

Nobody gets what you're saying....


I do change retention habits... I increase them. Anything else in your head is just some odd ball theory.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Nobody gets what you're saying....

I do change retention habits... I increase them. Anything else in your head is just some odd ball theory.

Blah Blah Blah spam.

Yes we know you're marvelous because you never stop telling us.

But for the rest of us mere mortals your post was BS.

[TeenCat]

daizzzy is working hard, a good reason to do not remove his ref links is you use his service

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Blah Blah Blah spam.

Yes we know you're marvelous because you never stop telling us.

But for the rest of us mere mortals your post was BS.

What am I spamming? 100's of people have set this up without any help from me or even knowing who I am, it's not rocket science.

Heck, if I am spamming it's in support of people using trial upgrades more, I think they're probably the single best factor with company growth, net income growth, happier affiliates, more members - quite possibly the best feature a paysite could have and probably the best feature ever created for our billing. And.... it protects from trial hoppers that bleed you dry and it greatly reduces piracy.

Trial upgrades, are bad ass... anything coming from your mouth, is coming from pure inexperience, a lack of knowledge and a lack of understand of how to operate an adult business that does any real volume of sales.

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by Slow Roosevelt

How everyone called him an idiot, bitched about false accusation. I wonder if morons have anything to say now.
Frisky, how's cock tasting banquet going?

1:100 ratio of accurate accusations is not something anyone of intelligence would start a thread over

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

What am I spamming? 100's of people have set this up without any help from me or even knowing who I am, it's not rocket science.

Heck, if I am spamming it's in support of people using trial upgrades more, I think they're probably the single best factor with company growth, net income growth, happier affiliates, more members - quite possibly the best feature a paysite could have and probably the best feature ever created for our billing. And.... it protects from trial hoppers that bleed you dry and it greatly reduces piracy.

Trial upgrades, are bad ass... anything coming from your mouth, is coming from pure inexperience, a lack of knowledge and a lack of understand of how to operate an adult business that does any real volume of sales.

Well your trial upgrades must be real bad ass because everyone else tells a different story. And that's what's coming out of my mouth.

Maybe your trial upgrades are 100% legit and making the buyer 100% happy. And maybe they aren't and making him pissed off and more wary of buying in the future. Tell us more about how your trial upgrades work so we can see which one applies.

Common sense and clear vision tells everyone what's happening to this industry and listening to the so called experts is one of the biggest mistakes we made.

[Pics Traffic]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

1:100 ratio of accurate accusations is not something anyone of intelligence would start a thread over

care to provide list of 100 inaccurate accusations, teflon?

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Well your trial upgrades must be real bad ass because everyone else tells a different story. And that's what's coming out of my mouth.

Maybe your trial upgrades are 100% legit and making the buyer 100% happy. And maybe they aren't and making him pissed off and more wary of buying in the future. Tell us more about how your trial upgrades work so we can see which one applies.

Common sense and clear vision tells everyone what's happening to this industry and listening to the so called experts is one of the biggest mistakes we made.

Who is everyone else and who said they were bad? The above convo is about how well upgrades perform, it's a difference in opinion, it had nothing to do with screwing the surfer over.

Upgrades can be setup and ran many ways, listing the various situations would require a small book. However, I set my sites up to give away what the tour says, which is all members expect. A site can pull content back, limit bonus features, stream types, downloads/clips, new releases, major archives and then offer discounts, access to all other sites, anything you want to bonus them, because you limited them - and this makes them happy.

It's a sales pitch, selling yourself, your own features, your own hype and when done correctly the member feel as if they're being rewarded, not ripped off, not scammed and not pissed. 99% of the Industry doing upgrades, does them on honest, legit, and rewarding ways that does not have customers emailing in bitching at them.

Clearly your opinion of what is wrong with this industry has skewed your understanding of how the various billing tools of our Industry can & do to benefit you and your customer when done correctly.

[Far-L]

I get what you are saying - though I think it is ambitious to say that you will get 55% retention on a third month from that first month of sales. Not impossible, I know that for a fact, but I don't think most programs can pull it off once surfers realize they have already seen most of the content in the paid member's area for free anyway.

For the record - as long as I have been on this board I have never seen TheDoc spam anything or say anything that didn't make it clear that the posts were coming from experience and knowledge. Might not always agree, but certainly respect the opinion.

Unfortunately, it seems to me that GFY has degraded to the point where people are so ignorant and bloodthirsty for finding fault in everything and everyone that they can't see the point, regardless of how intelligently it is made.

[V_RocKs]

Only large sites like Nubiles and FTV-Girls do that.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by V_RocKs

Only large sites like Nubiles and FTV-Girls do that.

Agreed a small handful of sites do. They are exceptions not the rule.

What Thedoc does not include in his calculations are the guys who cancel a recurring trial or full membership as soon as they joined. He pulls figures out of the air that if true the business would not be suffering as it is. Be it PPS or rev share.

The surfer is not the mug we had 10 years ago. He's a well educated and knowledgeable guy now. He knows that what ever a site is offering there's 10s if not 100s or 1,000s of other sites offering similar content. Many will consume what he likes from site and then move onto the next. The exceptions are a few sites, not the rule for all.

Would love to see the sites he claims breaks the rules.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Agreed a small handful of sites do. They are exceptions not the rule.

What Thedoc does not include in his calculations are the guys who cancel a recurring trial or full membership as soon as they joined. He pulls figures out of the air that if true the business would not be suffering as it is. Be it PPS or rev share.

The surfer is not the mug we had 10 years ago. He's a well educated and knowledgeable guy now. He knows that what ever a site is offering there's 10s if not 100s or 1,000s of other sites offering similar content. Many will consume what he likes from site and then move onto the next. The exceptions are a few sites, not the rule for all.

Would love to see the sites he claims breaks the rules.

Dude, are you on drugs, for real?


Up above I said put a signup link back to the sites in the trial members area, that it captures more people. Maybe you should actually read the thread?

You're more than welcome to hit up Topbucks and DukeDollars about the trial upgrade numbers they produce. Which is the numbers I stated above. Again, did you actually read the thread?


What rules am I breaking or claiming to break, who set these rules or standards? If anything, being that I created trial upgrades - shouldn't it be me who sets the standard for others to follow? Personally I don't think so, simply because so many others have helped show me how to improve upgrades, I couldn't take all the credit.


I'm done listening to a photographer pretending that he know's anything about this Industry.

[Paul Markham]

Another thing doc omitted was processing fees and bank charges. So lets apply them to his figures. At 6%

100 trials at $2.99 = $299
50 rebill at $29.95 = $1497

Trial Total: $1796

2nd month, 55% retain for 27.5 members = $823
3rd month, 55% retain for 15 members = $449

Rebill Total: $1272

Total: $3068

Less processing fees and bank charges of $152.90

Affiliate Payout: $3000

Loss of $84.90

Not listed CBs and the fines for them.

Add the cost of hosting, programming, content, affiliate support, admin staff and premises, legal, accounting, etc. And the loss on affiliate traffic climbs.

Even taking docs figures as accurate the sponsor loses on these 100 trial joins.

And as for knowing anything about this industry, I've worked in it for 33 years and watched many experts crash and burn.